DJF

How are your new TL transmissions? My '02 CL-S is in the shop getting a rebuilt transmission. I love my car, but Acura screwed thousands of people with this transmission problem affecting TL and CL cars. I understand that the newer TL has a different transmission. Is this true? Any new TLs with transmission problems? Will the TL transmission fit into the '01-'03 CL/TLs? If so, I wonder why Acura won't retrofit these into older cars instead of using bubble gum to fix a problem that won't go away? If I trade-in my CL-S, I had thought about a new TL, but I'm so mad at Acura I'll probably buy differently. The only think keeping me on the Acura-edge is the price. I can't find a car with all the same options for anywhere near the same price.

Repecat

And you never will. The TL is undoubtedly the best "bang-for-the-buck" on the market today. As far as I know, Acura has "fixed" the new trannies; no one seems to be reporting any trouble with them.

LessisBestmakingendsmeet

That is why most of us buy Acura. Low Price, not that its better. Good luck.

KilroyR1

6MT - shift for yourself - problem solved.

DJF

KilroyR1,

I would love to have a 6MT, but I live in the Los Angeles area and my drive is 1 hr of bumper-to-bumper in the morning, and 1.5hrs of the same going home. I had a manual shift for many years (loved it), but doing rush-hour traffic with it, is the quickest way to insanity.

Tripp11

Ever consider moving?

skeet4x25

I agree with Kilroy1. I sold my 98 NSX-T because I was driving in traffic. After a short amount of time, shifting in bumper-to bumper traffic is no fun. I was sitting in trafic at a stop, heard loud breaking only to look up and see this young woman on the cell phone skidding towards my baby.

That's all it took. Sold the NSX the next weekend, bought my Black 04 TL loaded and put the rest of the money in the bank! Only ever now and then do I miss the NSX. Truth be told, I wish I could have both cars.

ludachrisvt

iTrader: (2)

^^ dont we all ...

sftroy

Well, the BBB and 2 technical inspectors agreed with me that I had a problem with my early build 04TL (0005XX) - Acura NEVER admitted that there was anything wrong with my whining, hard/slipping shifts and burnt tranny fluid. My tranny was recalled, but the oil jet kit "fix" was added after I reported the whining problem. The recall was the same recall that affected the earlier CLs, TLs, Accords, etc.

That said, I now have an 05 TL and the tranny is silky smooth -for now . . .

acuraTL44

Calm down. Acura did not make this a problem on purpose, therefore they did not screw thousands of people. This is not the only car company to have a major recall. It happens all the time! The best thing is that they are fixing it for you. How much more do you want?

Aging Bull

I am new to the board and have an '04 built in Jun...Tranny seems to have a whine in 1st and 2nd gear particularly when decelerating......dealer says its ok and a characteristic of the car.

Is this B.S.?

Any comments would be appreciated -thx

DJF

AcuraTL44,

I understand that Acura is not the only company to have a recall. And, by the way, Acura does not have a recall on replacing the transmissions, only for adding the Oil Jet for second gear. That said, Acura did extend the warranty for up to 100K miles. The problem is, there has not been a permanent fix to the transmissions. If you read the various boards and the Petition on the web, many many people have had not one, not two, but three or four replacement transmissions. The Problem has not been fixed. Acura is treading water until all of the defective cars hit 100K, then it's the problem of the owners, not of Acura. The reason I can't calm down, is that the only way to avoid the problem with my car is to get rid of it. I don't want to get rid of it. I don't want to acquire another car loan. I wanted to keep my CL-S for a very long time. Who will want to buy my car if this problem becomes widely known. I've been a loyal customer of Honda for a long time. I had enough problems with GM and Chrysler and moved to Honda for reliability. Bottom line: Can you think of one reason why Acura can't do a permanent fix? It may mean replacing the transmission with a new unit (maybe from the new TL), but why not do it the right way instead of the half-ass way?

mickey3c

The tranny from what I hear was not redesigned, they changed the power profile of the engine to have less low end torque and they programmed the electronics differently. The oil jet recall has been on all 5AT since they came out. So the problem is still there.

No acura did not purposely screw anyone.. They rushed a bad tranny to market and now the have torque converter vibrations which are considered "normal" ...

So the 2G resale sucks... Anyone who is internet savvy will see the reports.

As for the 04 5AT they have an oil jet which means that tranny has issues. the 05... who knows.. I would not trust an acura 5AT..

Look at the forums and see the issues people are having. Maybe you are lucky maybe you are not but I would not want to see if I am lucky on a 34k car.

Best bang for the buck maybe... best longevity I doubt it... I hear a lot of people going from 10 year old cars to the TL.. They get a 6 or 7 year finance deal. We'll see how well they hold up by the time people are done with the 6 years... If it is too good to be true it usually isn't.

Buy the car and get rid of it by 48K when they can still certify the car and you have not done anything but oil changes and tires. If you are lucky you are not doing brakes. I did that with my 99 TL and would have with my 01 CL S but was laid off an not buying new cars then.

But that is what I would suggest. Keep it till 48K and trade in.

DJF

Mickey3c,


I don't mean that Acura "purposely" screwed anyone. The owners of these cars are getting "screwed" because there hasn't been a permanent fix. What if Acura made and engine with aluminum piston rods that kept breaking, but Acura kept rebuilding the engine using replacement aluminum rods? The correct fix would be to install iron or forged piston rods. We are not talking about a few hit-and-miss incidents here. There are literally thousands of these cars, all with the same problem. Don't get me wrong. I admire Acura for extending the warranty and for installing the oil jets, but let's figure out a "final" fix. I'm just really upset that I need to now consider how to unload my car when nothing out there even remotely excites me, especially when I was totally content with my car. Acura is stripping me of my favorite comfortable sweatshirt!

EZZ

Its always buyer beware. Do your homework and if the consequences look acceptable, just buy it. The TL now is considered to have "average" reliability (on par with the BMW 3 serieis) in Consumer Reports. You want better reliability, go with Lexus or Infiniti. You want 270hp with a great interior, well unless you are willing to pay more, the TL is the only game in town.

sftroy

Aging Bull -

They told me the same thing, but I had just experienced a tranny failure on an 03 Accord V6 with the same noise. The noise wasn't there when I bought it, wasn't in loaner cars I had and didn't seem normal to me or my Technical Inspector. Report the problem to ACS and make sure it is documented on your SERVICE RECORDS. If you are not happy, take it to an independent shop for an exam.

good luck . . .

GASNET

My 02 Tls Went Through 2 Trannys Already. But What A Car Smokes Wheels In First And Chirps 2nd. Test Drove The New Tl Last Week What A Disappointment. No Balls With Traction Control Off!!!what A Slob, They Must Have A Different Tranny In This Car.

MR1

As you know, there are few guarantees in life. Why not keep it and let them continue to 'fix' it? I think this is the low cost solution if you can put up with the inconvenience. You have a car you like that is paid for and in good overall condition. The only additional cost is being pissed off when it has to go back in.

I think ACH is doing what one can reasonably expect. I have had Ford, Chrysler and GM refuse to fix or even admit problems over the years. Just my

Hope you figure out a solution you can live with.

mickey3c

Well I am not looking for perfection, I am looking for a fix. Going back to the dealer every 20,000 miles for them to fix it is no the solution. You cannot use SS mode anymore since it will help cook the tranny. The car did not perform the same after the failure since they changed how it performs. You see the replacements were failing so they had to look at the design. They would rebuild the trannies and change the shift points of the car.

And the 3G regardless of what you first timers say about the car, the engine has been retuned because of the tranny, no longer is max torque at 3500 RPMs but at 5000 so the tranny does not get beat up so much. All they had to do was up the compression and modify the exhaust to add more power and instead they changed the torque characteristics of the engine.

That might be acura's fix... I have mine. It is called do not buy their products until they fix the problem. I have a tl and a g so I guess I will be seeing first hand who has the better product. I do not want to go back to the dealer to rely on them. It is time consuming and as a contractor can be costly since I get paid by the hour and any time spent at a dealer is not billable. That might be my solution, people have their own. Some have to have it and live with the issues. I have owned cars that never had to go back to the dealer, so if you are used to having a realtionship with the dealer, maybe you think that is normal.

VTECboy

All of my Hondas have been manuals. My TL is also a manual. You may want to test drive one.....this thing shifts like no other manual I have ever driven before. It is so smooth and effortless. It feels more like an automatic, especially when you're driving nice and easy. And when you really want to get on it there is nothing like a manual shifting up through the power band. I have had it for two months and every once in a while I still almost forget to push in the clutch and downshift at a stop light. It doesn't feel like its wound really tight like my other manuals and it isn't so jerky. It coasts more like an automatic when you let off the gas.

You should test drive a 6MT!

fasttl

Although, on these message boards the tranny problem keeps popping up (beating a dead horse) the tranny problem rate is average for the industry. Unfortunately, average is not what most people expect from Honda which explains all the moaning. As far as I know the 2004 tranny is not significantly different from the previous model, nevertheless, no reports of significant tranny failures has showed up, as it stands, the tranny of the 2004's seems to have overcome the problems that affected mainly the 2002 and some 2003 cars.

mickey3c

I would be careful what you call avg...lol there are all kinds of creative ways of looking at it.

I am not here to bash anyone or any one product. Acura extended the warranty on the power train and did so for a reason.. So they would not get their asses sued off. I would not call that average behavior. Maybe overall the tranny issues they have had on the life of their products since the 80s is average. That means there are some highs and lows...

all depends on where you fall on that graph.

Bluenote

Let me say that Acura is indeed standing behind their product. I have seen countless times where Acura has stepped up after the warranty extension has expired, and given at least partial, if not full, assistance.

wakattack

My 2002-TL S went thru two trannies, and it was mostly driven grand-ma style.
Not only that the thing drank a quart of oil every 3,000 miles.

Went out and looked at what else was available, and came home with another
Acura. And another TL at that. I am confident that the problems have been cleared up. Sure there will be a tranny here and there to die. But I just haven't heard many complaints, not nearly the way it was with the 2002's.

I think Acura is keenly aware of the situation, and will do whatever it takes to make sure the trannies work. If I am wrong, then ultimately it will kill resell on Acura's and I will probably will go with another brand. However I am still confident that the situation has been rectified.

mickey3c

I am not as confident as some since I work in the mechanical engineering environment and see how difficult it is to make a complex product as cheap as possible and still have a reputation for above avg reliability.

you will not know about the product until you spend the time in the product.. That means buy and wait a few years to see..

but everyone should enjoy...

fasttl

Sounds like you work for Detroit!!!! Honda proves that philosophy wrong day in and day out

DJF

"Grand-ma style" explains how I drive my car, and still the tranny went South. And I've done research on other cars too. Can't help buy say, Acura has us by the proverbial B#LLS because their cars do have the most bang for the buck. To get a BMW or Audi or Lexus-is with Navi, heated seats, leather w/8-way and all the other goodies I have now, you start at a base price of $31.5K but end up with a car that goes for $38K or more! I've been driving the Acura Loaner (TSX) and it's not bad. Obviously only a 4-cyl 200hp engine, but it's not bad. I'll talk to the dealer today when I pick-up my car and find out how much I can get on a trade-in for either a new TL or a TSX. This is a Comtech dealer, so maybe a TSX with some add-ons might make this less painful. I never trade-in cars, but in this case it may be the only way to unload a bad seed. I'm in tears over this.

EZZ

Seriously look at the 05 G35. The interior is much improved and has many features. You can get a really well equipped one for under $35k and the tranny is the strongest auto tranny in its class (rated for 340 ft/lbs of torque!). Being in CA, you don't really have to worry about the weather so RWD is a benefit.

fasttl

The so touted improved interior on the G is a lot of hot air. The interior of the 2005 G still pales in comparison to an Accord not to even mention a TL.

EZZ

Its still nicer than the 03-04. Not many more choices in the segment. BTW, the new dynos have been coming in on the 05 autos and they dyno around 230hp (G35driver.com). The manuals have yet to come in. Sounds like the hp bump was real in the autos.

To the person looking for a new vehicle, I say you should also wait for the new IS350 to come out. The interior is on par with the TL and the reliability will probably be much better since it is a Lexus. Hp numbers are unknown but it should be competitive. Good luck with you decision.

mickey3c

I have seen reports that the G35 dynos out at 236 hp and 234 torque for 05.

And I agree there are not too many choices in this segment. Acura was the first to build to this market at a price. Before that you bought the maxima or the 328

DJF

My son has an '03 Nissan Altima. It is very quick, but compared to my lowly '02 CL-S, the interior and build quality pales in comparison. Nissan is out. I'm leaving work early to pick-up my wounded CL-S, so I'll discuss trade-in/new car with the head sales guy who sold me my car. He offered $16.5 on a trade-in price (KBB says trade-in is $17.1, so that's reasonably close), but since I have a $12K balance, that only leaves me with about $4500 to work with on a down payment. I may try my luck selling it myself (provided I do sell it), since comparable pricing is another 2-grand +/-. Thanks for the feedback. It's good thereapy to vent.

MR1

FWIW

From what I understand, 'Grand-ma style' driving is the big problem with that trans. I had a long conversation with an honest service manager prior to my purchase. He stated that the trans needed to be driven a little harder, I forget why. I did have some relationship with this guy as I had a 94 Legend and have a 02 MDX. His suggestion was to get a late 03 TL-S or get a new 05 TL.

Again, if it will fit within your lifestyle, why not keep it? Repairs are free except for your time and they provide a loaner. Just about every car I've owned over the past 40 years has disappointed me in one way or another. For me, Honda has the best track record for taking care of the problem in the most reasonable way.

I don't think that all dealers or manufacturers are crooks, just business people. Honda could have stonewalled longer than they did or extended the warranty to 75K and ignored all problems after that.

As far as not having other choices I disagree. I think there are some very attractive vechicles at most price points. Problem is I refuse to own most for one reason or another. Honda/Acura just seems to offer most of what I want at a price I'm willing to pay. I took the risk with eyes wide open.

Sherlock

To those who try to defend Honda in saying they didn't "screw" us on purpose, well I think hell yeah they did. They told all of us early prospective buyers that it was a new transmission when indeed it was not and it has the same hell that the last 3 years did. They say it's not on purpose, but the dealerships do completely shoddy work, that doesn't happen "by accident". They "fix" things that people have to bring in repeated times. They tell us that we can't get new tires, but then change them the next year, that indirectly admits the problem.

But ya know what.. they sold over 70K cars when they expected 60K, we keep feeding their ego with our $$$. Well for me that ends, they can take this ratshit of a car back and shove it up their arses.

Average for the business. I'm glad Acura is now happy with Average, cuz that's all they are in quality and reliability. Notice Accord doesn't compete with the Camry on reliability anymore, when's the last time you saw that happen.

They need to go back to building them in Japan and importing them, I'd gladly pay the extra.

DJF

That might explain it, since my daily driving is bumper-to-bumper traffic, but I do drive long distances often enough. But I never had this problem with any other auto tranny.

To update my car, I just picked it up yesterday at the dealer (Acura 101 West) where I bought it. I had a long conversation with both the GM and Service Manager. Contrary to what had been done up through late last year (trannys being rebuilt here in the U.S.), I was told that now, the tranny is now coming from Japan and not the U.S. I looked at my repair and they also replace the PCM and Fuel Pressure Regulator. Interesting. Gotta say, the tranny works better now than it ever did. I'll just drive and keep my fingers crossed.

When I was at the dealer, I considered trading my car in for a new TL or the TSX. I can't afford to trade. Even with the TSX, my payments would increase by $50+ per month. I was offered a TSX with Navi and all of the other options for $27.5 not including my trade-in. It was tempting, but I think I'll let my luck ride, keep my car, and see what happens during the next year or so.

rets

I bet Acura didn't expect 04TL trannies (the early build 04TLs) are part of the "recall" of that oil jet kit for 2nd gear... but they should tell us the truth right in the beginning. Hopefully, this 3GTL tranny is the newly reformed one...

MR1

Hope it works out. Think you are making a good decision. Might want to put a few bucks aside just in case if possible. I keep them till I get tired of them, can't deal with problem anymore and can afford to replace them. Buying a different car is such a waste financially. I love new cars but try to stay away from showrooms.

I bought my MDX and a piece of investment property the same week a few years ago. The property has doubled in value; my MDX

It isn't going down fast but it's never going to go up.

matelot

what makes you think that would make a difference ?

VelfarreClubber

Whatever happens w/ my tranny i don't care, my handy 100k mile power train warrenty will take care of me.

on the side note, everything is working great on my car, built in july/aug 04

mickey3c

what if you plan to run the car to the ground. 100k is not much any more... I got rid of one at 83 k on the 3rd tranny since I did not like the prospect of shelling out 5 k for new tranny on a 5 year old car.

No matter... the point is you had to pay more for that warranty as well. I was checking consumer reports and acura does not warranty the cars as long as some other major brands (lexus)... Maybe that's how they sell for less, they get you to pony up the extra cake for and extended warranty..