grsd03

Hey everyone,

I was just wondering how much drivetrain loss there is between the manual and auto tl-s. How much difference does having an automatic trans have when it comes to transferring the power to the wheels?

The reason I'm asking is because I have a friend that just bought a 07 tl-s auto and I have a 08 tl-s manual and he states that having an auto is the same as having a manual in terms of amount of power at the wheels. I disagreed with him because I thought that the auto was not as efficient as a manual in terms of power transfer. I may be wrong so that's why I'm leaving it to the experts, you guys.

RC51Ryder

You are right. There is a power loss at the wheels (everything else being equal, of course) with a torque converter versus a clutch but with today's advanced automatic trannys, the difference is barely measurable. You would need to put both cars on a dyno to give you the real numbers.

Just tell your buddy that your is more fun to drive because the car doesn't have to try and "guess" what gear you want it in when coming out of a turn. Point and shoot.

juruki

iTrader: (2)

the 6mt TL will beat the Auto all the time if driven properly. They have much better gearing and more power to the wheels.
Race him and get it on tape. I always wanted to see the difference between the two.

TeknoKing

^ driver's race.............................

Bearcat94

6MT TL-S > 5AT TL-S. No question.


5AT TL-S WHP = ~240-ish
6MT TL-S WHP = ~250-ish

There are dyno sheets out there if you search for them.

Take 'em to the track.

MT is quicker 0 - 60: ~5.9 v ~6.2 (depends where you get numbers)

MT is quicker in the 1/4 mile: 14.1 - 14.2 v 14.4 - 14.5.

MT is faster in the 1/4 mile: ~99 - 100mph v 97mph - 98mph


MT is lighter and has better gear ratios.


5AT TL-S vs '04 - '06 MT is about equal; better driver/better traction wins.

myron

iTrader: (4)

^ so you are saying basicly that my 05 MT is almost equal to 5at TL-S? or is the 06 different from 05 or quicker or something?

Bearcat94

AT Type-S and 6MT Base models are approx equal. Very, very close in a straight line, stock-to-stock. Some say the MT is quicker, but it's never been sufficiently proven (IMO) one way or the other.

bimmerman

I have to say that after getting a 08 Base auto as a loaner and then jumping back in my 04 G spd my car is definitely "quicker".

SouthernBoy

This question does come up frequently, and for what it's worth, here are the real numbers as far as the differences in the two transmissions.

Automatic - final drive (fd) , 4.43
--------------------------------
1st gear, 2.56 x fd = 11.34
2nd gear, 1.55 x fd = 6.87
3rd gear, 1.02 x fd = 4.52
4th gear, 0.67 x fd = 2.97
5th gear, 0.48 x fd = 2.13

Manual - final drive (fd), 3.29
----------------------------
1st gear, 3.93 x fd = 12.93
2nd gear, 2.48 x fd = 8.16
3rd gear, 1.70 x fd = 5.59
4th gear, 1.25 x fd = 4.11
5th gear, 0.98 x fd = 3.22
6th gear, 0.77 x fd = 2.53


As you can see, in every case the manual has a more favorable gear ratio for acceleration. As far as parasitic drive train loss, figure the automatic to loose close to 20% while the manual will loose around 12-13%. And then there is the "felt" affect of direct drive versus a fluid coupling.

But the gearing really tells the story and explains why a manual TL has a more "torquey" throttle response than does an automatic.

Elegant TYPE S

iTrader: (2)

I once remember trying to catch up to BlackAcura just to say watsup when I saw him on the road coincidentally and needless to say I never did.... that fucker was fast! And this was before his TYPE S exchange. One of my only regrets with my TL. So yeah I think its safe to say 6MT is faster. LOL

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

^ lol. the BLACKURA was a 5AT also

In my opinion, a 3.2L 6MT is not equal to a 3.5L 5AT.... because the 3.5L has gradelogic transmission, which really performs and hauls like a 6MT... the gear changing is not as fast, but the accuracy of shifting in SS mode is pretty damn on point....

the claim a 5AT loses between 15-20% while 6MT loses 10-15%..

I dyno'ed my 5AT bone stock. and pulled 239whp.... vs a 286whp car... but again, thats the dyno i used, all dynos are different


the 6MT is always superior for several reasons

6MT cars are lighter
6MT cars have closer gear ratios
6MT cars have an LSD

BUTTTT ... if you arent 110% on point with your shifting, a 6MT can fall behind door shift points while a 5AT can provide a fluid and easier transition into each gear.

unless its supercharged, i welcome ANY 3.2L 6MT TL to race me, and i can assure you my car will win. even if all the mods are exactly identical (since the cars are pretty much identical) the extra 30whp you get with the 3.5L engine, is enough to outweight the benefits of a 6MT

Now, a 6MT TL-S with all the same mods as mine, will blow me away... but ONLY, if the person really knows how to drive a 6speed transmission

BDoggPrelude

We just purchased a 2007 TL 5AT base with navigation. I did a little bit of searching but couldn't really find a good answer as to what I was looking for. What would you guys say is the average whp numbers for a stock 5AT base model? I know that all dynoes are going to read differently and that different conditions produce different results but what would you say is the average?

Bearcat94

^^

215 - 220

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

^ maybe even less.....

on the same dyno i used to pull my type-s... the blackura only made 227whp... i was really disappointed ...granted, it was like 90+ degrees out on a hot July Day.. but i had everything (at the time) on that car... that car was an 06 3.2L

AEM Cold Air
UR Stock sized
Comptech Exhaust
E-Shift ProCats
OE thermal gaskets

i made like...190, or 194 in tq

TylerT

iTrader: (1)

^ That's what I'm expecting from my car.

CAI, Pulley, Spacer, J-pipe, and exhaust should give me around 225 / 230whp :\.

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

^ i didn't have a j-pipe (they werent out yet) for my Blackura... those pipes make a big difference in gains and exhaust flow... i gained 11 or 12 whp from my ATLP J-Pipe..

the pre-cat deletes too, where worth almost 20whp on my car...

e-Shift claimed 18whp from the pro-cats, but i feel like that was a load of bull.... i never enjoyed those cats.. i thought they gave me power, but the material inside the cat wasnt designed to be so close to the engine block, and deteriated wayyyy to fast

Elegant TYPE S

iTrader: (2)

^^Damm Allon... I was mistaken, I thought you only had MT TL's. So your TYPE S is AT too? You just struck me as a MT type of guy... that's all so I guess I assumed and yeah I guess your mods really paid because there was no chance in hell I was going to catch up to you that day on Jericho Tpke. haha.