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Hi guys - I recently swapped a 2006 TL engine & trans into a 2000 Honda Insight chassis for use in endurance racing (Link Here). Going into this weekend, the car burned a small amount of oil and had leaking rings on cylinder #4. This weekend was an endurance race at Sonoma, and part way through Sunday the engine started to consume a LOT of oil and produce a LOT of smoke. After a pit stop, we saw that the engine was 3 quarts low and let it cool down and topped it off before limping it across the finish line for one last lap at the end of the day. The engine is toast, not sure what yet, but it is making noises that sound like rod knock. I'm left in the position of installing a new engine in the car for an upcoming race, or possibly rebuilding this one. I'm guessing that I could get a junkyard engine and put it in without too much fuss, there are plenty of wrecked automatic TLs in junkyards near me. I'm wondering if I should take the opportunity to do something that would make a bit more power while I'm already pulling engines and swapping things around. I already have a fairly custom intake, fuel, exhaust, and mounts made for the car so the form factor of the J32 is pretty much perfect. I know that certain newer engines have different exhaust flange shapes that I would like to avoid. Is there a magic combination that I could Frankenstein together and make a few more horsepower while I'm at it? (like J37 crank and pistons into J32 block for example). I'm looking for maximum horsepower while still being fairly reliable. Thanks all!
@WileyBob, given you've already got all of the electricals and in/out plumbing done for the J32A3 and a transmission which bolts up to that block, how about an upgrade to the J35A6; the two engines are literally plug and bolt compatible.
honestly it depends on your budget. if want to tear the old j32 and see the extent of the damage. depending on how much a boneyard one will go for id prob grab a boneyard one, re-ring it, new hg and p2r manual tensioner and id send it. just never know what you are gonna get when you grab a bone yard engine as in you dont know if the previous person kept up with the maintance or if they did an oil change every 20k. keep us posted on this, love the hotrod vibes on this
@WileyBob, given you've already got all of the electricals and in/out plumbing done for the J32A3 and a transmission which bolts up to that block, how about an upgrade to the J35A6; the two engines are literally plug and bolt compatible.
Is a J35A6 an actual upgrade without a bunch of internal work? Stock for stock, it makes less power than the J32A3 but more torque. The J32 has higher compression but less displacement. Either engine will cost the same and take the same effort to pull from the local junkyard. If I'm going to be going through the engine with a fine-tooth comb anyway, could I install these pistons and get the best of both worlds (Link)? Are the cams the same or better in the J35A6? I'm running a megasquirt, so I can make anything work from a controls standpoint. Information on these engines is somewhat difficult for me to find, is there a good data source out there?
Is a J35A6 an actual upgrade without a bunch of internal work? Stock for stock, it makes less power than the J32A3 but more torque. The J32 has higher compression but less displacement. Either engine will cost the same and take the same effort to pull from the local junkyard. If I'm going to be going through the engine with a fine-tooth comb anyway, could I install these pistons and get the best of both worlds (Link)? Are the cams the same or better in the J35A6? I'm running a megasquirt, so I can make anything work from a controls standpoint. Information on these engines is somewhat difficult for me to find, is there a good data source out there?
By all reports from folks here who've moved from the J32A3 to the J35A6, the J35 is decidedly faster than the J32. As for the heads and cams, they are reported to be identical between the two engines. I'm thinking putting those pistons in a J35A6 would make a really nice motor!
Get the right J35 and you'll be good to go; added power and plenty of J35's floating around. The J37 might not bolt up to the 06 trans; but is well worth it if you can find one that does not have bad pistons/rings that causes oil consumption. (MDX 2007-2009 are best with least issues J37)
I would tear down the engine and see if maybe lack of lubrication is the issue. Some of the G's pulled can cause oiling issues and oil starvation. What oil and water temps were you seeing during your runs?
Depending on what is around, look into getting Type-S or acura RL heads as they are hollow and have higher lift/duration than others. J37 has a variant with Dual Vtec which makes more power; but finding one that won't need a rebuild due to oil consumption will be difficult.
What oil and water temps were you seeing during your runs?.
I log the water temps, and they are typically 200-210 during hard racing. I don't have any sensors on oil temperature at the moment. The pressure has been 20-40psi at idle and 70-80psi at racing speeds. I am pulling 1.2g often, and the race this weekend was at Sonoma where the car will hold high Gs for a few seconds at a time going around "the carousel" so it may just have starved for oil. I'll be sure to install a robust baffle in the new engine.
I log the water temps, and they are typically 200-210 during hard racing. I don't have any sensors on oil temperature at the moment. The pressure has been 20-40psi at idle and 70-80psi at racing speeds. I am pulling 1.2g often, and the race this weekend was at Sonoma where the car will hold high Gs for a few seconds at a time going around "the carousel" so it may just have starved for oil. I'll be sure to install a robust baffle in the new engine.
Invest in oil temp sensor and make sure it's not getting too hot. Baffles will certainly help; I think there is a company that sells a larger oil pan for J-series for extra capacity. Hell you could install an oil cooler and add 1/2 quart capacity and cooling also.
P2R sells the Moroso baffles oil pan. Though it won’t fit into the budget requirements. The pans don’t for all engines either as the J series pans were redesigned over the years.
Best to build your own since you have the tools and know-how.
Please share more of your j series build here!
I decided to go for the highest HP and lightest option I could find locally and snagged a 2008 RL engine yesterday (J35A8) with an unknown amount of miles on it. According to the registration in the glovebox, the engine had 115,000 miles on it in 2012. It propelled the car all the way to the front-end collision sometime last year. I'll be doing some preliminary tear-down soon to make sure everything is "good enough" before lightly modifying it and swapping it in. I've read that I need a new transmission half (clutch case) from a 2008-2010 Accord V6 manual (PN 21000-RDE-305), which I can't find locally, but I can order for about $400. I've also read that only one of the mounting bolts won't line up and you can just drop it in as-is and ignore the last bolt. Does anyone have any more information on this? My current transmission is working perfectly, I'd rather not tear it apart if I can avoid it. Also, does anyone know if the J35A8 models have piston oil squirters?
Okay, so my bad, I was basing my comments on something which I was told, here I believe, back in 2017 when I first joined; IIRC, the comments made about adapting a 2006 6MT to a 2007-2008 Type-S 6MT mount made it sound like a trivial matter. Looking at that parts diagram, it is still relatively easy, but not as easy as I was led to believe.
Ya it’s not easy, to do it right you have to be very cautious, meticulous and following the helms manual will same you time and money.
You will also need to do a preload test :P
I've rebuilt Honda manual transmissions before, and I have the tools and knowledge to do it, but I was reallllllly hoping that I just wouldn't have to in this case. It looks like I don't have much of a choice.
FYI - a J35A8 does in fact have oil squirters. This one appears to be in good enough shape on the bottom end that I'm going to leave the longblock alone for now, pending a compression and leak-down test once installed and initially warmed up.
I've read that I need a new transmission half (clutch case) from a 2008-2010 Accord V6 manual (PN 21000-RDE-305), which I can't find locally, but I can order for about $400.
Just an FYI. According to @Acura TL Builder the transmission case 21200-RAT-020 is discontinued / backorder from Acura. It seems these things are becoming scarce.
His friend had to order the clutch case 21000-RDE-305, like your needed one, from Honda because Acura did not have it.
It may be prudent, if you have not already done so, to source this clutch case sooner rather than later, to avoid getting into an availability situation.
Originally Posted by Acura TL Builder
He just bought a new clutch case for $508 shipped from Honda. Seems they had it while Acura didn’t??
Full trans tear-down is in order.. sort of. You can remove the mainshaft and countershaft as assemblies and swap them over.
I've done this exact exercise before. You will need a new reverse lever if I remember correctly. It's in the clutch case, but it's
damn near impossible to remove the old one. A new one is cheap. New bearings and seals all around would be wise. Motul
Gear Competition trans fluid is the best I've used.
The RL engine is a very good engine. You might want to stick a scope cam down into the cylinders when you remove the
plugs and make sure the cylinder walls look decent. If that engine was sitting outside for any length of time at the boneyard,
then there could be rust on the rings. I have a J35A8 sitting in my garage with 50K miles on it and badly scored cylinders. It
burned about a quart of oil every 400 miles. Thank you LKQ. I replaced the engine with a J37A2.
Last edited by Euro-R_Spec_TSX; 04-13-2021 at 04:56 PM.
Full trans tear-down is in order.. sort of. You can remove the mainshaft and countershaft as assemblies and swap them over.
I've done this exact exercise before. You will need a new reverse lever if I remember correctly. It's in the clutch case, but it's
damn near impossible to remove the old one. A new one is cheap. New bearings and seals all around would be wise. Motul
Gear Competition trans fluid is the best I've used.
Euro-R_Spec_TSX, is #5 and or 11, on the link below, the 'reverse lever, you mention?
None of those. It's the lever that the shift cable attaches to. In the top of the case. You can see it in the pic I posted.
Part number 2 in the MT Shift Arm section. 24460-PYZ-000
Maybe try to remove the old one first, but be prepared for combat.
Last edited by Euro-R_Spec_TSX; 04-13-2021 at 05:32 PM.
And yes to change the “bell housing” you will need to take All of the internals and swap it as they live in/on the bellhousing and the tranny Case merely keeps them sealed(in a nutshell).
None of those. It's the lever that the shift cable attaches to. In the top of the case. You can see it in the pic I posted.
Part number 2 in the MT Shift Arm section. 24460-PYZ-000
Maybe try to remove the old one first, but be prepared for combat.
That dust seal 91208-PPP-003 the select lever goes through, on my CL-S6, has a lot of grime gathered around, over the years, from what appears to be a 'little' leakage.
Now I know it's not something that can be replaced 'relatively easy'.
It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure I couldn't get the roll pin completely out due to the limited access and angle.
The bottom arm would be needed too and the two parts are close to $100. I think I would try harder now to remove the old one.
^
Reviewing your picture above, it does look very tight working in that area.
To say the least, there is a lot of great information in this thread.
Better yet, and if I'm interpreting your comment above correctly, WileyBob will be able to upgrade his Insight chassis even further by shoe-horning a J37A2. What a potential beast!
Full trans tear-down is in order.. sort of. You can remove the mainshaft and countershaft as assemblies and swap them over.
I've done this exact exercise before. You will need a new reverse lever if I remember correctly. It's in the clutch case, but it's
damn near impossible to remove the old one. A new one is cheap. New bearings and seals all around would be wise. Motul
Gear Competition trans fluid is the best I've used.
The RL engine is a very good engine. You might want to stick a scope cam down into the cylinders when you remove the
plugs and make sure the cylinder walls look decent. If that engine was sitting outside for any length of time at the boneyard,
then there could be rust on the rings. I have a J35A8 sitting in my garage with 50K miles on it and badly scored cylinders. It
burned about a quart of oil every 400 miles. Thank you LKQ. I replaced the engine with a J37A2.
That Orange bearing on your right; does it come off easy? I was able to slide mine on and off by hand. Was a bit worried that something was wrong with it as the helms manual doesn’t describe that behavior.
That Orange bearing on your right; does it come off easy? I was able to slide mine on and off by hand. Was a bit worried that something was wrong with it as the helms manual doesn’t describe that behavior.
Looking forward to seeing pics of the Insight engine bay.
I already have a J32A3 in there, so aside from the intake manifold I don't think it will look very different at all once I get the new engine installed.
I'm ready to pull the trigger on the new transmission parts. Here is the list that I think I'll need initially:
Case, Clutch - 21000-RDE-305 - (main aluminum housing)
Bearing, Needle (44x72x23) - 91103-PYZ-003 - (mainshaft bearing)
Oil Seal (35x54x8) - 91206-P0Z-005 - (input shaft seal #1)
Oil Seal (28x43x7) - 91216-PG1-005 - (input shaft seal #2)
Lever, Select - 24460-R08-000 - (reverse gear selector)
Dust Seal (14x20x4) - 91208-PPP-003 - (reverse gear selector seal)
Oil Seal (40x56x9) - 91205-P0X-005 - (output shaft seal, passenger side)
Then only after I get these parts I'll be able to determine what bearing shim I'll need for the differential bearings and order that. That's a bit of a pain, but ok. Will I need any additional parts? Will I be able to swap the oil pump from one trans to the other without damaging it? How about the dowel pins that locate the two transmission halves, or the dowel pins that locate the engine to the transmission? Thanks all!
Everything should be a direct swap. The clutch case-tranny case and clutch case-engine dowel pins are a direct swap.
I received my half shaft for my preload tool. Will work on it this weekend and have it ready to use next week. When your ready for preload I’ll send it over to you.
04-05-2021, 03:13 PM
