Norse396

Ok, so my wife buys an RSX the day I buy my TL, just a tad over two weeks ago now. It's 10f outside which is cold but no big deal, I start my TL and it makes a sound while running that sounds like dried out bearings on either the alternator or AC. Something I'll have to take up with the dealer but no big deal at this time, could be salt on the belt.

I go to start my wifes car, it cranks and cranks and cranks, so now I'm thinking oooooook, I waited for a few seconds to make sure the car recognized the key so WTF is going on here? I wait a min and try again, same thing. So now I have to go into the house and explain to my wife that her brand spankin new car with less than 500 miles on it won't start. GREAT.

Now mind you, I had to talk her out of a new '04 Cavalier which I absolutely hate. Thank God she did some research and found I wasn't the only one who thought it was/is a POS.

So I talk her into an RSX which as it turns out was easy once she saw it. Now all she will say is "I should have bought the Chevy, my last Cavalier ALWAYS started". UGH, like I needed this today so while she is (married guys will understand this) asking me again why the Cavalier sucked yet this supposed awesome Acura is supposed to be the shiznit why doesn't it it start? I'm thinking I should have let her buy that POS Chevy.

So I call Acura and of course we aren't in the system properly and this morning is really turning out to be a should'a stayed in bed type of morning they finally find us and start the process. They promise the tow will be a flat bed and will be at my house soon. An hour and a half later I see the flatbed fly by at at least 50 not even looking for the address and my phone rings, they want to know where I live. I explain I'm the guy he just blew by at about 50 waving my hands like a lunatic. He obviously didn't see me, so after another drive by he finally see's me and pulls over.

Now the fun starts, he asks for the keys and says he can probably get the car started. I'm thinking yeah, ok, you'll turn the key differently than I did, okidoki. He gets in and starts pumping the gas like a mad man and I'm asking him why on earth he is doing that! He says these "computer controlled cars never get flooded" so he keeps pumping and holding the starter as if 5 min's of cranking will remind the car of its duty to start.

I ask him to just tow the damn car to Acura and let a real mechanic look at the car, which turns out to be somewhat stupid on my part and you can probably figure out why.

He gets out, wraps a chain around the axle and whips the car onto the flatbed. Thankfully the car wasn't in gear or we would have had more than words. My mood wasn't improving when he jumped into the truck and took off as if his ass was on fire.

I call the Acura dealer to let them know the car is coming and the guy tells me he will only cover a car if it's "UNDER WARRANTY".
I ask him how this could somehow not be under warranty? It's only two weeks old! He can't answer, sh!t now I'm thinking we should have bought the damn Chevy too! So we get to the dealer and the *&#%$@@damn car starts right up so the mechanic is asking me what's the problem?

Ahhhhhhh then the "Check Engine" light comes on! For once I'm happy to see that light come on! He says give me a few min's and about 45 min's later he says he had to replace a "valve" which froze. Ok, great so now we hope it doesn't have issues tomorrow because it's going to be colder than today.

The dealer was very professional when we got there and handled everything quickly, but the sting of this has my wife still pissed that it happened in the first place. No mention was made that this "might not be covered" when we got there so thats cool.

They washed the car so hopefully it isn't frozen solid when she gets off of work today.

End of rant...

RJC RSX

sorry to hear your troubles, but this is just an isolated case and anecdotal evidence

Norse396

It's not isolated to the person going through it, to that person it just plain don't matter if it's isolated or anecdotal. It shouldn't have happened, period.

LED Master

Norse, I agree with you, and based on all the issues / junk build quality on the new TL I would have to agree with you.

Tripp11

Plus, to top it all off, didn't they throw somebody else's slightly used EL42's on your TL and not mention a word to you about it? How did that turn out for you?

Ken1997TL

Keep in mind that people with problems will complain. People who don't, wont.

The internet allows those people with complaints to reach a broad national and international audience.

In addition, cars are so much more complicated than even 10 years ago. The Honda K and J series are some of the most advanced engines on the roads.

But as Scotty from Star Trek says "The more they over do the plumbing, the easier it is to stuff up the drain".

Norse396

I don't know about any build quality or junk issues with the TL, maybe I shouldn't have posted about my wifes RSX. I think the build quality of my TL is very good. Same with my wifes car build wise, it just sucks that this happened and I needed to vent.

Norse396

It turns out I didn't have his EL42's on my car, every TL I drove at that dealer vibrated pretty much like mine did, and mine still had the original rubber and wheels on it. My car still vibrates but I've been assured the problem will be taken care of soon.

Norse396

Ken,

True, but this is a Honda product and hopefully it will live up to the good reputation that is Honda reliability.

daveinmass

Don't you just love a fine whine.

kgoessling

Acura quality control ended with the Legend. I have tried very hard to like my TL-S, but all the quality problems will ended any future purchases from them.

Norse396

Thank you Dave.... my mind is going. Now can I have some cheese to go with it?

Norse396

I'm sure there were people who had the Legend (an ex boss mine being one of them) who hated that car because of problems they had. One of the reasons I bought these cars was because of their reputation, which is excellent on the whole.

DMZ

Can you feel it? ........ Can you feel it?

Ken1997TL

By your logic then, it really ended with the 1st generation TL.

It was basically a Legend KA chassis with a 2.5 or the 3.2 Legend engine and was built in Japan.

Swat Dude

Okay, I hate to admit it but my new TL has some quality issues that indicate sloppy manufacturing in addition to the flat spot tires and a rough idle. There are just no excuse for these little things. My Xenon headlights have big fingerprints on the lense. There is an eyelash size hair inside the AC display (non-nav) and there is a big piece of lint and a few smaller ones inside the third brakelight housing. What kind of air quality do they have in their plant. Obvioulsy its not a clean room but you think all that crap wouldn't be floating around to get into places you can't access without some trouble. I got rid of my 2002 Camry to buy this car and I'm thinking the initial build quality was much better from Toyota. Don't get me wrong, I think the TL is an outstanding car but it seems like Honda aint what it used to be. I still think it will run forever, my brother has over 200,000 on his civic, original engine and transmission, but I guess I had really high expectations for Acura, especially since Honda is supposed to be the JD Power king of initial quality and reliability. Maybe that is what is haunting alot of people on this website- high expectations. If this were a Chevy, Ford, or Chrysler product I would just expect this sh%$. But not from Honda.

Lore

Well put. Setting high expectations which aren't achieved can certainly be a downer... I feel that way too (except I have not found any hairs or lint in any of my parts because I haven't gone looking for them)

LED Master

Here Here Swat, agree 100%, I even have fingerprints on the HID lens too (drivers side).

Note, many of the assemblies you are talking about are sub-contracted out, so they obviously do not check the quality of those vendors!

svtmike

I've done my share of complaining about the stock tires, but aside from the EL42's, my car has only had the dash rattle by the glove box (fixed in 1 attempt by dealer) and the occasional seat amnesia.

If the tires hadn't been a problem, (and I really don't expect phenomenal tires stock on the car, but I do expect acceptable tires), the other two items are relatively small problems.

A valve freezing up somewhere on the RSX is a very unpleasant surprise, though whether its a design defect or an isolated part failure can't be determined third-hand by one incident.

Finally, I think Acura measures "initial quality" much too quickly, and it skews their measurements. They surveyed me two days into ownership. For some of the defects, that's too early to experience them or decide that they really are defects (it took me about two weeks to convince myself that it really was my beautiful new car shaking and not the road surface, and then that the shaking could not be driven out).

I don't know if that survey practice holds for the other makes.

Mike

DMZ

From the motion picture STAR TREK III - The Search For Plot

RJC RSX

had you changed the oil at all in the rsx? and allowed it to break in of course? is it a base manual, auto, or type-s?

EVS Motors Inc.

I believe most Acura's are made in the US now. That includes the TL, CL and MDX. So for those who don't like domestics and drive one of these cars your biting your own tongue. Us Americans don't have the the tolerances that the japanese do when it comes to building cars.

I believe only Lexus is the only true Japanese luxury brand left. American built cars aren't the same anymore. My classic mid 60s cars are more reliable than the newer American made cars. LOL

need4spd

SVTmike, glad that your car has been trouble free, but I have had many problems with the car, and to me that is not acceptable in the first few months. Many were parts broken durring assembly, or items not correctly installed into position. Most of it was sloppy workmanship, like they were rushing the car off the line, and dont forget the first 12,000 cars off the line had the Check Engine light issue (held over 5k for any time and bingo, it is on).

svtmike

I haven't had the Check Engine Light problem, and mine's vin #1040. Not that it's been north of 5k very often (!#&@ traffic - the reason I didn't get the 6MT), but it has been there and no light.

I'm not saying that others don't have the problem, and my Acura (built in OH) hasn't been as good as the wife's Honda (built in AL) from a quality perspective, but if I subtract out the nightmare of the tires, it's "only" displayed two defects.

Mike

Yaaro Dhana

The interior build quality does not seem to be as good as it ought to be. It may be due to the fact that this is its first year in production and we have earlier models, but some obvious defects seem to have escaped notice. E.g., in my car:

- the aluminum trim next to the non-nav display was popped out
- the two moldings around the steering column do not close up properly and have an unsightly gap

Both of these should not have passed QA in the factory. I would not consider either problem significant, but I wish they had done a better job.

DMZ

You should change your handle to April15.

04SSMTLCanada

I believe that even Lexus is building model(s) in North America, specifically the RX330 SUV and the future RX400 Hybrid is scheduled to be built in NA.

EVS Motors Inc.

That won't be good than!

EVS Motors Inc.

I found some information on the Lexus cars. So the RX is the 1st american made car, lets see how it does.


How do they manage all that? Well, besides Toyota’s legendary economies of manufacture (and Lexus is a Toyota division), the decision was made for this RX to be built in North America. Because the completed vehicles no longer need to be shipped across the Pacific, Lexus is able to bring a base front-wheel drive RX 330 in at about $100 less than last year’s model, and the all-wheel drive RX 330 is priced at a whopping $500 below the previous RX. RX 330 is built in Canada, and is the first Lexus to be assembled completely outside of Japan.

LED Master

EVS - Canadians have a little more pride in thier work than us Americans you know. Maybe the quality will be better also.

Also, the labor rate in canada for factory workers is less than here in the states (I read this on a manufacturing site somewhere). I guess this is why so many "american" cars are built in Canada

Norse396

I think had this been me instead of my wife this would have been much easier.

I think it does, when I bought my last Ford I received a survey very quickly.

avs007

I love Acura too, and love our TL. However, I think basing any type of quality merely on where it was built is a joke. The auto tranny in the previous TL which kept failing was a "Made in Japan" part. And I believe my Infiniti is assembled in Japan , so Lexus isn't alone.

Norse396

I think I mentioned this car is two weeks old with less than 500 miles on it, I'll have to check so nope, no need for any work since it was purchased.

She has the 160hp model with at.

kef

While you are bashing american workers, consider this: The transmission on the TL is made in Japan. Check the window sticker.

Norse396

I find having any problems to be unusual, my last 4 cars have all been Ford's and have never seen anything but oil changes and scheduled work to maintain the warranty.

Hard to believe that I've been spoiled by an American car company eh?

svtmike

I believe it. My last car (Ford SVT Contour) was back to the dealer exactly, um, zero times for warranty repairs.

Mike

1SICKLEX

True. Loaded RX 330s will still be from Japan, many FWD models from Canada. Lexus PRIDES itself on quality and reliablity, it is one of it's main selling points. The Canadian plant is identical to the Japanese plant. However in true Lexus fashion, they paid attention to details. The cafeteria is catered towards Canadians. The workers measurements were taken to build the plant larger in scale for these workers. Tools are bigger.

It's not the workers, it's the management. It's the companies mission and can they get workers to believe in it.

While Lexus is trying to build the best cars/SUVs in the world, Acura is going after value. Value means cutting costs and not paying attention to details.

If the 1st generation TL was assmebled in Japan, a loaded 3.2 was 35k with 200hp, a cd player and leather. 8 years later a TL made in America with 70 more hp, Nav, all sorts of extra features, etc is the SAME PRICE, something had to give.
It's business.

EVS Motors Inc.

Excellent reasoning. I remember the 1st generation TLs were going in the $40s!! Those were straight from Japan, unfortunately they didn't look that good and didn't sell well at all in that price range.

rets

Hey, I agree what you said. Great post...

svtmike

The cost of the electronics has dropped significantly in the past ten years, as likely have the production costs (making them here vs. Japan, improvements in production technology) to help offset the increased content for the same price.

Mike