Higher Mileage Crew, let's talk BUSHINGS!
05-11-2014, 12:55 PM
#81
Team Owner
The wandering with age is probably a tolerance stack out, the sum of many parts. However, I got 90% of the vague feeling to disappear by replacing the rack. It's cheap and not that hard to DIY.
Surpsrisingly, a proper alignment can help more than most give it credit for. Literally 99% of the alignments I've had done are not correct. I still remember how the car felt when brand new and I had to adjust because the steering was so sharp with no on center play. More toe in the rear makes my steering feel razor sharp and with less body roll.
Old shocks also hurt with the sharpness. You need them to respond right away and when they get old, not only do they get softer, they usually have dead travel near the top of stroke where they literally do nothing until they move a bit.
Surpsrisingly, a proper alignment can help more than most give it credit for. Literally 99% of the alignments I've had done are not correct. I still remember how the car felt when brand new and I had to adjust because the steering was so sharp with no on center play. More toe in the rear makes my steering feel razor sharp and with less body roll.
Old shocks also hurt with the sharpness. You need them to respond right away and when they get old, not only do they get softer, they usually have dead travel near the top of stroke where they literally do nothing until they move a bit.
The following users liked this post:
cokorote (05-12-2014)
05-11-2014, 02:45 PM
#82
Moved to the LOU
iTrader: (6)
The wandering with age is probably a tolerance stack out, the sum of many parts. However, I got 90% of the vague feeling to disappear by replacing the rack. It's cheap and not that hard to DIY.
Surpsrisingly, a proper alignment can help more than most give it credit for. Literally 99% of the alignments I've had done are not correct. I still remember how the car felt when brand new and I had to adjust because the steering was so sharp with no on center play. More toe in the rear makes my steering feel razor sharp and with less body roll.
Old shocks also hurt with the sharpness. You need them to respond right away and when they get old, not only do they get softer, they usually have dead travel near the top of stroke where they literally do nothing until they move a bit.
Surpsrisingly, a proper alignment can help more than most give it credit for. Literally 99% of the alignments I've had done are not correct. I still remember how the car felt when brand new and I had to adjust because the steering was so sharp with no on center play. More toe in the rear makes my steering feel razor sharp and with less body roll.
Old shocks also hurt with the sharpness. You need them to respond right away and when they get old, not only do they get softer, they usually have dead travel near the top of stroke where they literally do nothing until they move a bit.
05-11-2014, 06:18 PM
#83
The wandering with age is probably a tolerance stack out, the sum of many parts. However, I got 90% of the vague feeling to disappear by replacing the rack. It's cheap and not that hard to DIY.
Surpsrisingly, a proper alignment can help more than most give it credit for. Literally 99% of the alignments I've had done are not correct. I still remember how the car felt when brand new and I had to adjust because the steering was so sharp with no on center play. More toe in the rear makes my steering feel razor sharp and with less body roll.
Old shocks also hurt with the sharpness. You need them to respond right away and when they get old, not only do they get softer, they usually have dead travel near the top of stroke where they literally do nothing until they move a bit.
Surpsrisingly, a proper alignment can help more than most give it credit for. Literally 99% of the alignments I've had done are not correct. I still remember how the car felt when brand new and I had to adjust because the steering was so sharp with no on center play. More toe in the rear makes my steering feel razor sharp and with less body roll.
Old shocks also hurt with the sharpness. You need them to respond right away and when they get old, not only do they get softer, they usually have dead travel near the top of stroke where they literally do nothing until they move a bit.
05-11-2014, 06:28 PM
#84
Racer
Within the next week or so I'm going to have my lower ball joints, inner and outer tierods replaced. Hopefully I'll notice some difference, since I bought this car this has been my issue. Car feels like it's floating (although it feels better after replacing my shocks), tends to wander especially on bumpy/uneven roads (will pull the steering wheel at times). 04 TL has 145K on it.
05-11-2014, 09:35 PM
#85
Fearless DIY Guy
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Please correct me if I am wrong, but the only way I see this holding true would be the result of material loss at the pinion gear or steering rack gear shaft itself. That aside, I don't see how this would be the culprit seeing as how the load induced on this gearing pales in comparison to the other listed components.
But I may be wrong.
But I may be wrong.
05-12-2014, 12:42 AM
#86
Team Owner
I replaced the rack when the car had about 80k on it. I believe it was still on the original compliance bushings. I know for sure it was on Konis at the time. But anyway, it brought it back very close to new. I've had extremely quick response since then up until I recently aligned the rear. Now it's a little more sluggish and even seems like it has more body roll. I did it to reduce rear tire wear but I'm gong back to how it was. Even the rear alignment has a big affect on stability and responsiveness.
There are also tires. The stock non performance tires can actually feel more stable under some conditions since they're less likely to follow ruts and imperfections. I've been lucky enough to drive a newer Murcielago and the TL even with age doesn't feel as unstable as the Lambo. By unstable I'm talking about following everything in the road and having to make constant steering corrections around town. At high speed obviously it's in a different league.
I think it would help if everyone was a little more descriptive in exactly what they don't like. If it's on center play coupled with following ruts, the rack is the likely culprit.
05-12-2014, 12:47 AM
#87
Team Owner
Please correct me if I am wrong, but the only way I see this holding true would be the result of material loss at the pinion gear or steering rack gear shaft itself. That aside, I don't see how this would be the culprit seeing as how the load induced on this gearing pales in comparison to the other listed components.
But I may be wrong.
But I may be wrong.
Someone mentioned the TL-S rack. There's no point unless you want a wheel that's harder to turn. At one point in time people thought it had a quicker ratio than the base which would have been awesome but it turns out it has the same ratio.
05-12-2014, 09:04 AM
#89
Moved to the LOU
iTrader: (6)
as for the rack, is it only the rack... Part 13 in the diagram? 1353601-SEP-A04RACK, POWER STEERING
http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org/...s=&view=normal
http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org/...s=&view=normal
05-12-2014, 09:08 AM
#90
Moved to the LOU
iTrader: (6)
I meant it's the sum of all parts. Just a little wear in every part that can contribute to sloppiness over time can cause big problems even though each individual part may not be that worn.
I replaced the rack when the car had about 80k on it. I believe it was still on the original compliance bushings. I know for sure it was on Konis at the time. But anyway, it brought it back very close to new. I've had extremely quick response since then up until I recently aligned the rear. Now it's a little more sluggish and even seems like it has more body roll. I did it to reduce rear tire wear but I'm gong back to how it was. Even the rear alignment has a big affect on stability and responsiveness.
I replaced the rack when the car had about 80k on it. I believe it was still on the original compliance bushings. I know for sure it was on Konis at the time. But anyway, it brought it back very close to new. I've had extremely quick response since then up until I recently aligned the rear. Now it's a little more sluggish and even seems like it has more body roll. I did it to reduce rear tire wear but I'm gong back to how it was. Even the rear alignment has a big affect on stability and responsiveness.
The following users liked this post:
cokorote (05-12-2014)
05-12-2014, 02:27 PM
#93
Racer
very curious on this "replacing rack" solution. I have more play in my steering wheel then I would like. Car (steering wheel) will pull different directions based on the roads, and it's even worse when applying brakes. Two different mechanics have said that steering components look fine, and the alignment is good. My thought is to replace tierods and ball joints to stiffen up the components (they have 145K on them), but I have read that replacing the rack significantly helps but is more costly.
Something needs to be replace but I'm not sure what as of right now, and I obviously don't want to spend money unnecessarily.
Something needs to be replace but I'm not sure what as of right now, and I obviously don't want to spend money unnecessarily.
05-12-2014, 03:23 PM
#94
Diligence, I told you that the rack will make the whole difference. It fixed my uneven/uneasy steering feel, or sloppiness. Even IHC stated that he change the rack at 80k and got rid his 90% of the vague feeling.
Rack are not expensive at all check post #89 for the rack pricing.
I'm really curios about the rear spec of IHC.
Rack are not expensive at all check post #89 for the rack pricing.
I'm really curios about the rear spec of IHC.
05-12-2014, 04:30 PM
#95
Racer
Diligence, I told you that the rack will make the whole difference. It fixed my uneven/uneasy steering feel, or sloppiness. Even IHC stated that he change the rack at 80k and got rid his 90% of the vague feeling.
Rack are not expensive at all check post #89 for the rack pricing.
I'm really curios about the rear spec of IHC.
Rack are not expensive at all check post #89 for the rack pricing.
I'm really curios about the rear spec of IHC.
Did someone tell you that you needed to replace it or you chose that route yourself?
05-12-2014, 04:59 PM
#100
Racer
I doubt the rack is OEM they have two options both remanufactured.
#1: A-1 CARDONE PART#262703 ($255, 125 rebate)
#2: ATSCO PART# 8025 ($275, 100 rebate)
EDIT: If you meant in general, I don't believe so....haven't ordered anything from there yet
Last edited by Due_Diligence; 05-12-2014 at 05:04 PM.
05-12-2014, 06:08 PM
#101
Yep, I recently changed the front shocks with OEM. I honestly didn't think about the axles because I didn't have any symptoms that I've read on here. Man this is starting to add up, still have front and rear motor mounts sitting at home. My biggest gripe right now is how the car drives/handles, way to sloppy and unstable. I'm honestly not too worried about the rear because once I finally fix the issue I'll buy coilovers, and sell my front shocks. Only positive here is the transmission is in good shape (knock on wood).
I doubt the rack is OEM they have two options both remanufactured.
#1: A-1 CARDONE PART#262703 ($255, 125 rebate)
#2: ATSCO PART# 8025 ($275, 100 rebate)
EDIT: If you meant in general, I don't believe so....haven't ordered anything from there yet
I doubt the rack is OEM they have two options both remanufactured.
#1: A-1 CARDONE PART#262703 ($255, 125 rebate)
#2: ATSCO PART# 8025 ($275, 100 rebate)
EDIT: If you meant in general, I don't believe so....haven't ordered anything from there yet
I changed the shock, axles, lca bushing, front and side motor mount and the rack. It suck but that because I want the brand new feeling lol.
Last edited by cokorote; 05-12-2014 at 06:10 PM.
05-12-2014, 08:04 PM
#102
Racer
05-31-2014, 09:45 PM
#107
Fearless DIY Guy
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Yes and no. Had a chance to drive the 2014 Chrysler 300C while on a business trip this past week and it was...awesome. The steering was so tight, so dead on...which has lit a bit more of a fire to get that feeling back with the TL.
I've added two additional items to the hit list, which includes new coilovers and steering rack, which puts us right around $3200 installed to make the suspension and bushings NEW again. This includes motor mounts and the like.
That presents two issues
(1) I can't afford that this year. I'm saving now to do this in 2015.
(2) I'll be at +170k on the TL...but the car will be paid off...so do I do this at all or am I better off putting the aforementioned 3k plus the value of the TL in to a newer car? The TL does last a long, long time...
I've added two additional items to the hit list, which includes new coilovers and steering rack, which puts us right around $3200 installed to make the suspension and bushings NEW again. This includes motor mounts and the like.
That presents two issues
(1) I can't afford that this year. I'm saving now to do this in 2015.
(2) I'll be at +170k on the TL...but the car will be paid off...so do I do this at all or am I better off putting the aforementioned 3k plus the value of the TL in to a newer car? The TL does last a long, long time...
05-31-2014, 10:49 PM
#110
i replaced my end links and swaybar bushings (f&r) and that cleaned up my handling quite a bit on my o2 cls.
DeathMetal,
I'd get a new(er) car
DeathMetal,
I'd get a new(er) car
06-01-2014, 12:45 AM
#112
I'm still voting for a newer car 
06-01-2014, 07:01 AM
#113
Chapter Leader (Houston)
iTrader: (7)
Why not use aftermarket parts? I too considered going all out on OEM parts but I figure why not go aftermarket since I figure I get 2 to 3 years it would be worth it. FYI, my parts came put to a little under 300 excluding the axles and the only oem items are the compliance bushings. The rest of the parts are moog.
06-12-2014, 09:38 PM
#116
Fearless DIY Guy
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Not ruling that out, first order of business was to construct the Bill of Materials using the Acura Parts guide 
The missus is pushing me in this direction, so I cannot totally rule this out either...but everything I like is currently out of my price range
The missus is pushing me in this direction, so I cannot totally rule this out either...but everything I like is currently out of my price range
06-12-2014, 09:39 PM
#117
Chapter Leader (Houston)
iTrader: (7)
Will have an update tomorrow possibly. Dropped off my car with the following parts.
both cv axles
steering rack
2 compliance bushings
2 lower control arm bushings
1 lower ball joint(ripped a few years back)
1 outer tie (replaced the other side last year)
In addition to that I have an oil/ps fluid leak that will be resolved. I have skunk2 arms that need to be installed as well.
both cv axles
steering rack
2 compliance bushings
2 lower control arm bushings
1 lower ball joint(ripped a few years back)
1 outer tie (replaced the other side last year)
In addition to that I have an oil/ps fluid leak that will be resolved. I have skunk2 arms that need to be installed as well.
06-12-2014, 09:42 PM
#118
Chapter Leader (Houston)
iTrader: (7)
I too wanted a new car but I love my 3g and it is reliable. I figure I should get at least 2 more years with all these new parts and I'm pretty sure I could keep driving it the way it is but for $250 in labor for all the above I jumped on it. Plus I recently scored a S2000 so I have to play with as well.
06-12-2014, 10:11 PM
#119
Fearless DIY Guy
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
I too wanted a new car but I love my 3g and it is reliable. I figure I should get at least 2 more years with all these new parts and I'm pretty sure I could keep driving it the way it is but for $250 in labor for all the above I jumped on it. Plus I recently scored a S2000 so I have to play with as well.
I gotta ask...how in the sam hell did you score labor at that rate?! Racks are usually $800 in labor!