1SICKLEX

That is your opinion but you do need it. Otherwise you are not a serious luxury car maker. Why you think Cadillac is going from all FWD to RWD cars?

The TL offered a blend of some sport and some luxury for 30k which is incredible.For 35k, that is gonna be a tough sell, IMO.

Maxim

Maybe we really ough to wait for Acura to announce the price. This is a direct quote from Consumer Guide: "Prices were unavailable in time for this report, but Acura says the '04 TL will range between $30,000-$34,000, depending on model." Here's the link:
[url]http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/editorial/features/index.cfm/act/sneakpeek.

Maxim

Maybe we really ough to wait for Acura to announce the price. This is a direct quote from Consumer Guide: "Prices were unavailable in time for this report, but Acura says the '04 TL will range between $30,000-$34,000, depending on model."
http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/e.../act/sneakpeek

huskerfan

Since there are only 2 models (the Auto & the 6 speed), does it mean the 6 speed is $4K more than the Auto? Or is CR including options like Nav or A-Spec? Since they only quote a "range", I suspect it is just their educated guess based on some incomplete info Acura fed to them. At the bottom of the range ($30K), it's cheaper than last years Type "S". At the top of the range ($34K), it's about $2K more than the Type "S".

purplpaul

I think most people think the 2004 TL will be priced at least $500 more than the 2003 Type-S sticker price .. around $33,500. Navigation would be around $35,500, an additional $2000. I don't think there is any concensus on how the manual transmission will be priced, but I think it will be identical to automatic (the Honda Accord coupe manual and auto are the same price, so it makes sense Acura would do the same).

huskerfan

Acura just did a press release to announce the price on the MDX which goes on sale today. I guess that means that the price of the TL won't be available until it hits the showrooms. Prices on the MDX increased 1.8% (about $700) over last years model despite numerous improvements. Regarding the Auto & the 6 speed being the same price. The 6 speed has some features the Auto does not...LSD for example. That alone may justify a price difference.

Fencesitter

Does the price quote from Acura make you think that the lowest costing model (no MT, A-spec, or navi) is probably going to cost near the bottom of that range? Assuming this is a reputable source, I don't see how this could be interpreted as the base price falling anywhere in that range. Maybe we'll get our sub-$32k base unit after all!

Buster

With the AWD G35x on the horizon and the 2005 Subaru Legacy acquiring nice looks, interior room, a 250 hp flat-6, and shedding 200 pounds in the process, the 2004 TL isn't on my radar screen anymore. With last year's engine (old VTEC design with minor modifications), last year's troublesome 5AT, and last year's wobbly brakes, this "not all new" TL just doesn't cut the mustard with me.

The Legacy flat-6 with a 5AT is supposed to tip the scales at about 3100 pounds. That's impressive for an AWD car with a 5AT and adequate interior room. Subaru understands the importance of weight reduction. To see the TL lose size without losing any weight in the process tells me Acura ignored what should have been a priority. The 2004 TL is still too heavy! The engine isn't an i-VTEC, and the auto tranny should be a brand new design with an emphasis on durability. Both the 5AT and 6MT should be sporting Brembo calipers and Brembo slotted rotors at all four corners. To me, the absence of these four much needed improvements is a major disappointment -- especially if the base price is destined to exceed 32 grand!

I know what the 2004 TL should have been. What it became really disappointed me. I expected Acura to hit a home run with this car. Instead, they bunted. Nice platform on the 2004 TL, but WTF? Honda cut a lot of corners on that nice platform -- perhaps to pay for all those auto tranny rebuilds and rotor replacements. Will this saga continue?

Although the TL 6MT may prove to be reasonably reliable, I have a feeling the 5AT version will continue to be a nightmare with many complaints about 5AT failures and shuttering brakes. If I'm wrong, you guys can all jump all over my case. I trust my instincts, though, and they tell me the 2004 TL 5AT wouldn't be worth taking a chance on even if the sticker came in under 29 grand. The car just isn't what it should be. Besides, I'm looking forward to more info on that 2005 Legacy flat-6. It'll be under 29 grand for sure! If the Legacy doesn't live up to the hype or comes in too expensive, there's always the 2004 Camry SE V6. With 225 hp, 240 lb-ft @3600 RPM, a sportier look, and a sport tuned suspension, it's quite a deal around invoice. Perhaps Acura will get it when TL sales fail to meet expectations and decide to bless that platform with some serious hardware. The G35x and 2005 Legacy should give Acura something to think about.

elbodude

Sorry to hear that. I can see 20 Accords on my way to work only 13 miles away.

larrynimmo

Not exactly...

Acura has 14,000/1 year addl warranty
cassette player
cargo net
fog lights
memory seats
heated mirrors
xenon lights
sports shifter
better stereo ratings
night/day automatic miror
back-up decending mirror

Honda has more horsepower
more interior room
key with built in remote controls (rather than fob)
side curtain air bags (in addition to side bags)

Just the facts...nothing but the facts

Sundance CL-S

Honda has more horsepower?

amdmaxx

Actually US bound Legacy GT will have 2.5 turbo for 280+ hp (Detuned STi engine), the regular edition will have boxer 6 good for 250 and ... drum roll.... Legacy STi will have Turbo Boxer 6 good for 350+ hp stock with great tuning potential (late introduction)...
About brembos on all models - I see this as 2nd or 3rd year introduction.. All car makers seem to do this, introduce the car and add cool options later in the product run, to keep the customers coming to dealerships.
Happy shopping..

Maxim

Here's what Road and Track online is saying. Note the estimated price and gas mileage.

Price : est $29,000–$35,000
range Body:
seats: 4D/5
engine Optional: 3.2-liter sohc 24V V-6,
engine Lay-out : 270 bhp F/F
Length (in.) : 186.2
Weight (lb.) : 3480 est
Mpg, city/hwy : 19/29
Side airbags ABS

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....ber=2&preview=

huskerfan

Gas mileage is the same as 2003. Since the weight is also estimated and Acura has already released the weight, I suspect the Road & Track article is dated. The hard copy magazine is already out so there info is probably a month old. Don't think their price estimate is very reliable.

Maxim

My fault. The weight was not estimated in the R&T piece. I copied and pasted the wrong portion. However the price estimates jives with my earlier post about the prices attributed to Acura by Consumer Guide on this thread. My point is that the price be no more than $33K to not lose customers.

Sundance CL-S

By “losing customers” you’re implying that Acura’s new releases are just for existing owners. Perhaps Acura’s idea is not to attract existing TL owners, but rather reach buyers that might not have considered purchasing an Acura until now. Automobile manufacturers want to increase market share, not just resell new models to current owners.

I’ve heard complaints here that Acura should try to compete more closely with Lexus and Infinity, yet no one wants a price increase. That’s simply not possible.

My company is a vendor for Honda, and the people I’ve spoken to about this car describe it as being in a class of it’s own. When you want to get a realistic opinion, talk to the people that build them, or at least to the people that work on them. The service manager is probably your most unbiased critic. The regional service manager for this area described the new TL as “possibly the best car Honda has ever built”. I just can’t wait to get my hands on one.

Anyway, if you feel the price is too high or the features are too minimal, then don’t buy it.

Chris

Buster

My info is according to C&D and AutoWeek. I don't know how accurate it is. An unblown flat-6 with a wide powerband would suit me fine as long as the price is right. A 280 hp turbo on a car that light would be amazing. I don't want to take my last breath in a car, though.

Raheel

First of all the 6 MT lost few pounds off the last years model..

The i-Vtec is too new for america, it just recently got came out on the inspire in Japan, and it is not anything that gives u 500 more hp or anything, its not that big of a improvement..

For the navi, and all the technology aspects, I think the TL leaves the ES330 and many other cars in the dust..

If you look at it from a PURE Performance point of view than the TL would have bucket cloth seats and AWD and all that, but its a balance and that is a reason why a lot of people like TL's..

OLD VTEC Design?

This same vtec technology has been in Honda's for years, so do you expect a new type of engine, like one that jump up and down or something..

BTW what source do you have that proves the new Auto tranny is the same old one, do you think ACURA is that stupid that they would risk there money on putting a old failing tranny?

You can get pure performance, buy a Coupe G35 or a STi or something..

You are after all buying a luxurious family sedan with a little performance kick! Tell me any car that sells for $32k with all the features u mentioned above? The new AWD G35 will be over $38k EASILY!

go ahead and buy your pure performance car, while I relax in my voice activated navi, with luxurious leather, better interior layout, DVD Audio, Bluetooth handsfree, AND MUCH MUCH MORE!!!!

I am just tired of your CRAP, all you do is say bad about Acura, at TOV you do the same and you are doing it here again, didn't they ban u at TOV!?

I think you need to get some serious help..

Other people might think I am being harsh, but if you know him from TOV, you know he is an IDIOT!

Raheel

Actually I wont sit here and mention all the 03 Accord features, but the 04 Accord has a lot more features than you mentioned,

voice activated Navi
windows that go down with remote
you can buy a mp3 cd player
the Accord also has a optionf or a night/day mirror
also has option for cargo net
Dual Zone Climate control
XM radio standard on accord with EX w/ leather

THeres more things But I cant remember..

I have to agree that the Accord is ugly though

BTW do you even use cassette player?

purplpaul

Well said.

Ken1997TL

I would prefer the S2000 to have more torque. The S2000 beats the Nissan Z or gets really close to it in many comparisons. The '04 2.2 engine with more torque and redone gearing will be even better.

Accord is fine, no such thing as too perfect.

RSX-S should get 220 hp engine from the Type R.

TSX has balance and handling, something the V6 seems to upset in the Accord. We'll see how it works in the new TL.

No comments about the new TL since I haven't driven one, but looks fine to me. My only concern is price, but if improved interior materials and driving characteristics are what some have claimed to be, it'll be worth the cost increase.

VtecMW

I don't care how anyone spins it, there just simply isn't enough similarity between Accord and TL to make me consider the Accord. I expect the TL will confirm my expectations once I test drive it. Some of the proof is already in the appearance, IMO.

Raheel

Indeed the new Accord has many nice new features that are better than 03 TL but Accord doesn't even match the 04 TL, The looks of the TL blow the accord away..

The accord is a avg looking Family Sedan with many new features

while TL is a gorgeous family sedan with performance and luxury to go along with it..

termigator

Very interesting.....My brother just bought a 2004 Accord EX V6. His name is Paul too! Anyways, if your looking for a forum for Accords, try this one:
http://carandtruckforums.com/cgi-bin...board/YaBB.cgi
I own a 2002 TL-S, but my wife has a 2000 Accord EX V6.
I think you made the right decision in getting the Accord over the TL. The difference between the cars isn't enough to warrant the price difference. I got the TL-S for the horses, but if Honda came out with the new Accord in 2002, I would have given it serious consideration. As far as handling and balance is concerned, I used to own a 1992 Prelude Si and to me, that is still the standard I'm seeking which, unfortunately, the TL-S comes up short. Please don't fault me though. I'm married and have two kids now and the Prelude just didn't fit into the whole family plan!

Raheel

Ya but the thing is he didn't buy the Accord over a 2003 TL-S, he bought it over a 2004 TL with 270 HP and etc.. etc...

davew

Yes, married, two kids, and also miss my '84 Prelude! After a '92 Accord (excellent), '97 Camry (poor), and '02 MDX(excellent), hoping the '04 TL comes close to the EXCEPTIONAL Prelude driving experience! If it does, I'm buying!

larrynimmo

Yes, when ever I go on a long trip, my wife gets me a novel on either tape or CD and that's what keeps me wanted the convienence of a cassette player.

I didn't buy Navi...so that feature is unimportant. I won't buy XM subsription, so that is out. I do like the dual zone. You will be hard pressed to find any other advantage of substance, and I'll still take my left over 03TL which may hold its value (in light of high pricing of the 04) One other note, in the five years+ of 2nd gen production, I am (as others buying now) a customer paying the lowest purchase price paid of this car new. The purchase price is cheaper than Gen 1 models, Vigor & Legend (leather models) extending back into the 1980's.

VTEC Animal

I see what you're saying about the savings... The 2004 will be a very good value, but I don't think it'll be the value that the 2003 was at 29900. One thing is for sure, some dealers will have a stock of 2003's once the 2004's hit. If you're in a region that has a lot of 03's on the lot at that time, deals will be waiting.

amdmaxx

Ye, I bet like $2000 UNDER invoice for 2003's, including type S..

Maxim

Like I expect an unbiased opinion from a guy whose company is a vendor for Honda. Of course if the price is too high then I will not buy it. But that's not why this forum exists. It is an avenue for intellectual disccourse. You can dispose of all the issues in two sentences, and reduce all members to two categoris: those who love the TL and will buy it no matter what and those who do not, and the forum would not even exist. The so-called service manager you quote can hardly have had anything to "service" since the car is not even on dealers' lots yet, talk less of any service. And it is way too early to proclaim it as the best car Honda has ever built. His/her opinion ain't worth a damn at this point.

Maxim

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Maxim
[B]

Sundance CL-S

My company is not just a vendor for Honda, but Toyota and General Motors as well. Yet, I would not own either. I simply stated that because much of the information on this site is from dealer’s mouths, not manufacturing. Remember, the dealership is a completely separate entity from Acura.

The regional service manager I quoted is not a dealer service manager. He, for simplicity explanation purposes, is the service middleman between the dealers and Acura. He’s opinion comes from the manufacturing side. And though I don’t take anyone’s opinion at 100%, I do respect his view considering his experience with the new TL.

I apologize if I disrupted your “intellectual discussion”. I’m just tired of hearing complaints about this car before one is even sold. I came to this site to get useful information on the TL.

Pauli

Not that I disagree with you, but a 2003 525 with equivalent options will cost you $43K+. And for that you get a lousy 184hp. The 2004 (same engine specs) will cost about $3k or 4k more than that. The 2004 530 (225hp), which is more comparable with the 270hp TL, with similar options will cost you $52+. $15K more with less power. Hardly in the same price category.

Maxim

Nah. No need to apologize. We are all Acura lovers. I, for one, am hoping that I can afford to buy it when prices are announced. I am not really complaining, just sounding off. I own a '95 Prelude and cannot find a Honda 4-door to replace it. I went to my old dealership and asked the saleman if I could expect the same handling from the Accord. He laughed and said "the Accord is nice, but a Prelude is a Prelude." Which I think he means, that the Accord would not handle quite as well. I drove the TSX twice. Wasn't an improvement on the Prelude, handling-wise. Oh well, I might have to settle for that, if I can't afford the TL.

Maxim

Righto. Why anyone buys those things amaze me. I guess it's the snob appeal and the name. I guess you are paying in advance for all those calls to Roadside Assistance. I would take a TL over the 525 anyday, even if I could afford it.

lamster

I agree with the comment about the Prelude's excellent handling. I used to own a Prelude 1996-SRV and boy was that car nice. It's the first time Honda introduced the VTec engine to Prelude (that explained the letter "V" coming after "SR"). We have this highway in Toronto where it curves a lot and the lanes are fairly small. I used to take my car there and drove it along the highway at highspeed during night-time or early morning (and watch for those cops at the same time, of course!). It handled beautifully.

I moved in with my g/f so had to sell it to my older bro. I now drive the Accord 98 while he still drives my Prelude. Bastard!!

ranger0007

PurplPaul,

2004 Accord V6 w/ Nav, invoice is $26,011. I am not sure $29k is few hundred over invoice.. it looks like you paid MSRP.

purplpaul

Ranger0007, $29k is the total price I paid, including
1. car
2. accessories (rear-deck lid and wood trim)
3. tax
4. tags

I paid roughly 3% over the dealer invoice price, which was the best deal I could strike from a salesman I bought a car from before. Several dealers in my area refused to sell the 2004 for anything less than $1000 over invoice. I guess it depends on their inventory, and what the demand is.

lamster

I can see how people would consider the Accord EX-V6 over the TSX. But TL and Accord are in totally different leagues.

Honestly, I can't see myself spending well over 30K (Canadian) to get a car that doesn't even have 6 cylinder, despite all the good things that I know the TSX offers. For this price, I might as well go for the fully loaded Accord, or spend a bit more to get either the new TL or G35.

purplpaul

UPDATE:

It seems that over the past week, my dealer cannot find me a gold or white Accord V6 w/ Nav. Originally, I selected a black/ivory one, but there was a problem with that one, and then I decided on the different color. Anyway, in all of NJ, PA, NY, DE, and MD there are apparently no gold or white Accord V6 w/Nav. But what's really interesting is that I called three quite large dealers, and between all of them, they only had one car with V6 and Nav! And supposedly, according to the dealers, there will be very limited inventory of V6 with Nav units for the next couple months (roughly 1-4 cars per dealer/per month).

If the Acura TL rumors are true that the Nav units are being delayed until November, I wonder if there is a connection.