Tomorrow, at 9:30 am, I am having a X-Pel 3M Paint Protection Film package installed on my TL. I have shopped and researched for three months before making this decision. :P

I will be going to San Antonio, TX to be trained on installing it and will be opening my own shop to do so. Tomorrow, a neighboring installer will put the "clear bra" on my car and I will help.

They are not cheap but they offer an 8 mil clear coat of urethane that protects against rocks up to 1/2 inch at 80 miles per hour. It goes on the bumper, hood, grille, and mirrors. It is nearly invisible except for the line where it stops 1/4 way up the hood.

I will also put a piece on the ledge of the back bumper just outside the trunk where we tend to rest packages while we open the trunk.

I will report back with pictures after it's done. Any questions? Fire away.

XP

 

For 04TL, I do think clear-bra-like protection seems necessary. At least my early built 04TL has such thin paint finish and more you drive more chip you could find over the hood. I may consider to have X-Pel on my front and mirrors, too, after returning to NYC. The full nose mask does help, too, it's not easy to maintain and install though.

Would you like to share $ info? Thanks. I got a quote a month ago about $170-$240... maybe I'm wrong here...

 

hey good luck on the install!!! how much were you quoted? I got this cool dude from LA that would install the whole body kit (its like two kits put together) for about 800 with labor... He said you paid for the kit and then it was abotu 100-150 bucks depending on the star of difficulty.

I was willing to fork it out, but my dad would let me saying that my car cant live forever and that a couple little scratches would give the car character. err

 

Mine is going on this week, just in time for my big trip in less than two weeks. It's the 3M stuff (same as Xpel) that goes on the bumper, hood, mirrors, and fenders. It's being done by a local installer and the total cost before tax is $600 including their coming to my house to do the install, not bad when I compared to others who have posted their experience. I already have a couple of gouges that had to be touched up; don't want any more.

 

I'm a little traumatized.

I washed my nose and mirrors twice this morning with Dawn to get the Zaino off. I am aware that preparation is 95% of a good installation.

I arrived at 9:30 am on schedule and Jim had me back my TL into his two-car residential garage. He wiped down the hood, fenders, mirrors, and bumper with a soapy solution (water with a capful of Johnson's Baby Shampoo in a squirt bottle). That bothered me because he used a terry cloth towel and was wiping sideways and in circles.

My car is black. I have always used a lamb's wool mitt and have only used front-to-back strokes when washing or polishing the car. Ergo: there are NO swirl marks on my car.

He then used a degreasing solution with a paper towel (shudder). Then, he wiped the whole area down with a microfiber cloth.

I watched while he cut the pattern out from X-Pel on his computer and plotter/cutter. Very interesting to watch.

Jim noted that, even after wiping down the area, it was still "cloudy." This was another red flag. :thinking:I didn't like the idea of putting this film over a "cloudy" surface.

He did the hood first. That seemed to go OK. He noted a few anomolies and said they would go away when it dried. Then, the fenders. Ditto. The mirrors were a little more difficult. The film had to be stretched to shape around the mirror body.

When we got to the bumper, it was huge; over 100 inches long. He had much difficulty because it would NOT stick properly. He said that he kept getting a rainbow slick when he tried to squeegee the liguid from under the film. He said he never saw that before.

The bumper was just a disaster. It wouldn't stick on the ends. He just couldn't get it stick on the paint. Exasperated, he asked again what I had put on it. I told him "Zaino polymer sealant."

He said that whatever it was, it was damned good because this adhesive would not stick to it even after washing and a degreasing solvent.

By this time, the film was starting to lift on the mirrors and around the edges of the hood. It was now 12:45 pm and we both had activities schedule for the afternoon.

Jim was very apologetic and cooperative- asking what I wanted to do. I told him that I wanted it done correctly. If that meant tearing off the film, thoroughly re-cleaning the surface, and putting a new kit on - that's what we had to do. He agreed and we set up an appointment for next Saturday. He sealed it up as best he could - leaving large wrinkles and bubbles. It looked terrible. Not to mention my virgin hood was all dirty and smeared. I was sick to my stomach.:buah:

The regular price for this extended bumper coverage kit from Jim is $600. Because I am a dealer with the same company, X-Pel, he was doing mine for $500 and I was learning/participating. Another installer, the one with the best rep in the area, wanted about $850 for the same thing (3M). As you can imagine, I am seriously considering paying the extra $350 and taking it to the other guy.

Bottom line is, as I was often advised, preparation and installation is 95% of getting a good paint protection film. Now, I have to go through this trauma again next week. My friends did not even notice anything different with my car so take my "disaster" comment with a grain of salt knowing me and how picky I am. I don't part with $500 easily. Emergency heart surgery, a life vest if I'm drowning, etc. I'm penurious. (Tight)

So, Neuron Bob and rets, if you're going to get a clear bra, make sure you get all the Zaino or NTX or whatever off. If you don't, there will be problems. I hold the installer responsible for getting that stuff off. That's part of the installation. If you use strong polymer sealants, be sure and tell them and make sure they take extra cleaning measures. My guy said, "I was wondering why my soap solution was beading up even after I degreased it." That should have been his clue that something was wrong.

What do you think I should do. I haven't paid Jim anything yet. He didn't want any money until it's done to my satisfaction. Or, just forget Jim, reach deeper into my Scotch purse, and go to the the guy with the good rep?

Frustrated,
XP

 

man oh man... im really sorry to hear that XP. bad things shouldnt happen to people who dont deserve bad things... well in my thought, if the other more expensive dude did use the same products you would get the same result too, so its best when jim takes it off, bring in the dawn ultra and just work at it...

now if this other person has some sortve voodoo magic wash that saves you from washing your car another 20 times to get the same result then maybe it would be worth the extra bucks, but thats just my inexperienced say in this.

maybe call up this guru and pay him a couple bucks for advise on how to remove the zaino from the car.

goodluck with whatever path you take...

 

Damn, sounds like Zaino is strong $hit. And I've got two layers on my car, AND wash it weekly with Z7. I figured I'd have to wash it off....maybe I'll have to wash the hood/bumpers/fenders/mirrors with Dawn every day until install. I don't want my installer ruining my paint with scratches (none now), or more pits than there already are.

Thanks for the warning.

 

bra will make it uglyyyy

 

Simply using Dawn is no guarantee that all of your wax will come off. This may work for those cheap waxes you by a the local Stop and Go. The best way to clean your car is to get a good cleaner/polish with a random orbital polisher (Porter Cable). If I get a TL I will definitely do the Clear Bra. Its worth its weight is gold. Good Luck.

 

what are you talking about? have you seen clear bras? I think it shouldnt be called a clear bra, because the old black bra gives clear bras a bad image...

no its not the covers that you see at your grandmothers house on her dining room chairs.

 

I had Zainoed back in Jan with 3 coats of Z2 and was doing Z7 wash + Z6 weekly. Then installed clear bra without any problems in May. Also did Zaino after installing. I dunno why you are having problems XP. Mine was installed by Jeremy from invisiguard. Nice guy with very thorough. Send him PM here and he might be able to help. I think his handle is INVISIGUARD.

 

Man I am so sorry to have read this. I replied to your email and if you still have some questions please feel to let me know. This is a sad sight to read. I am sure your installer will be able to get it worked out for you.

Chad

 

xpidor,
sorry to here about your troubles. I have read a couple of good comments about Llumar's clear bra. I think joganoi has it. I also did a search about the 3m stuff and a few people said after a couple of months it yellowed on them. Im not sure if this was the first batch out or the stuff they still use today. Hope this helps.

 

Are you talking about something like Meguires #83 Cleaner/Polish? Do you think that would remove the polymer sealant? Have you done that?

The clear bra, when installed properly, is invisible and gives excellent protection against stone chips, bug juice, etc.

I'm going to email Sal Zaino and ask him what he recommends to get it off.

Thanks for your input.

XP

 

Chad,

Got your email. Thanks for the sage advice. I guess when you put your faith in people you don't know, you risk getting burned. I expect an installer to do a good prep especially when I told him I had Zainoed the car a couple of times with polymer sealant.

At least he didn't charge me and won't until it is done satisfactorily. I am just dreading returning to the "scene of the crime" to do it all over again.

I didn't even let the dealer detail my car on delivery. I did it myself to insure there were no swirl marks. My car was flawless. Then to have this guy smear degreaser all over the hood with a paper towel- I almost lost my lunch. Now, I have to watch it again, I guess.

I'll just have to polish out the scratches when it's all done.

XP

 

Thanks, joganjani,

I will reach out for Jeremy and maybe he can give some advice. He probably did a proper preparation and cleaning.

XP

 

I typically just use my installation soap solution to wash the areas I will be installing, then a clay bar to get any little bits that might be stuck in the paint, after that I use Dupont FIRST KLEAN to prep the surface, its a bit more aggressive than the usual 3M general purpose adhesive remover but it realy gets the wax off the car and is still safe on the paint. And yes polymer sealants may require more than one wipe down with solvent.

Also if there are any swirl marks on the paint you will not be able to see them once the film is installed, so dont stress too much about that.



I know we are always looking to save money wherever possible, but keep in mind a clear bra install is skilled labor. Unlike going across town to get a lower price on the same TV set, with a clear bra install the lower price may be a great deal or the worst money you ever spend

That said, the most important thing here is that Jim is willing to do whatever is needed to make the situation right. Once cleaned thouroughly the install should apply and adhere completely reliably. Let us know what you decide and how it goes!

Jeremy
Invisiguard@sbcglobal.net

 

post some pics when u get a chance
\

 

You want pics of the bad job? The mess up?

Or, do you want pics after we fix it?

It will be hard since the bra is invisible (mostly). Or, it should be! :sqnteek:

XP

 

For the good comparison, IMO, I'd like to see pics before and after...

Thanks...

 

i wouldn't mind seeing the before and after pictures to see how much better it looks. but i definitely want to see the pic with the clear bra on. thanks

 

Cat and rets: I have a picture but I can't host it. If you can, send me your email addy and I will send it to you.

Thanks.

When it's done right, you can't see it unless you put your nose pretty close. You can see a slight line where it ends within about 4 feet.

XP

 

Post your pics here: http://acura-tl.hytekhosting.com/

Free. Register once and post forever. Cause we all want to see the pics.

 

hey you can host them on photobucket.com its free. or if u want u cant send them to me and i will host them for you. my email is eklipes@aol.com

 

Pic is in progress. I have to wait for a confirming email.

I have a meeting to go to. I sent the pic to rets. If he doesn't post it by the time I return(Zulu minus 4), I will do it.

Thanks for patience.

XP

 

XP's 04TL.... sweet...

 

Great, now what are we looking at again.

Is this before or after? And if its after direct us to a spot we can see, thanks.

 

RETS... did he tell you if these were before or after . my guessing is that its AFTER/// i mean. if he was going to leave us in suspense why do it.. SO i think its AFTER Aspector.... but it looks clear. lol.. nice.. but i hear its above 400.00. ALOT> watt will happen if i got a lease for 4 years and then i give it back with it? then it starts disolving or something..

 

Nothing will happen. The lease company will be happy that the front end will be in great condition and so will you when they dont ding you for a paint charge. Not all lease companies practice this, but I have seen it happen after working for dealers for years and having to fix the cars.

I am sure Dave will clarify what picture that is and keep us abreast of the situation.

 

XP probably could provide more details about this... he only said it covers the entire front end and mirrors with 1/3 up the hood. 4 year warranty for the paint underneath and any damage.

But he mentioned "You probably can't see. But it is messed up around the edges and in a few spots. They are going to re-do it"

 

Xpditor, I can feel your pain on this. You take your baby in to get it protected, but almost the opposite happens. I would most definitely take it to a new installer. Clearly this guy did not have the requisite skill/experience to do a top notch job. The peace of mind and an install you can be happy about is definitely worth the extra $300.

I'm getting my car done this weekend here in Houston with Llumar. It's going to cost $825, but the protection will include the flairs around the wheels, the mirrors, and also behind the back wheels. There were cheaper guys here, but everyone I talked to said this guy is the best, so I'm not going to be stingy in this case. In any event, good luck with the reinstall and hope you're happy with the end result.

Rescueswimmer, the old 3M material did have some yellowing issues, but they recently introduced a new product in March or so that apparently is much more clear and is supposed to age much better. I did think the Llumar was still a bit more transparent though and I liked the fact that Llumar's lifetime warranty includes the cost of reinstalling the bra (not just the cost of the materials, like 3M's warranty).

 

Here is my car with the Clear Bra installed. It has to be re-done because the installer didn't get all the Zaino off and the edges did not tack down well. The paint surface has to be cleaned with 3M Adhesive and Tar Remover - twice- and then washed off with an alcohol solution so it is squeaky clean.



The process takes about 3-4 hours. The 8 mil film has a paper backing and is run through a plotter/cutter that cuts out the pieces specific to your car: hood, fenders, mirrors, bumper. They also have headlight film which is thicker - 20 mil and 40 mil.

The pieces are pealed off the backing, soaked with a "slip" solution of water and Baby Shampoo so that it will not stick immediately but float on the surface to get into the right position. Then, an alcohol solution thins the slip and accelerates the film sticking. The excess liquid, air, etc. is then squeegeed out like window tint.

The film goes almost half way up the hood. It covers the entire front bumper except for the ACURA indented letters. From 4 feet away, it is not visible. You wax it or Zaino it just like the rest of the car. The film is urethane - the same thing the car's clear coat is. It will take a hit from a rock up to 1/2 inch at 80 miles an hour without damage to the paint. It guarantees that for four years - just like the cars warranty.

It is removable anytime. It is heated up with a hair dryer or heat gun and taken off like a bumper sticker. It doesn't harm the paint.

I costs between $450 and $800 depending on the installer and the location. The average is about $550 for a "standard" bumper coverage and about $50 more for extended bumper coverage that goes all the way to the wheel openings on the side.

It comes as standard equipment in front of the rear wheel openings on a G35 Coupe. Next time you see one, look for it. It also is standard on some areas of Ferraris. It started life as a protection for military helocopter rotors in the deserts of Iraq.

XP

 

If it's any consolation, XP, I can't see any damage from this far away. Good luck Saturday!

 

XP, I just reread your original post and it seems that the problem lies in the fact that he never got off all the Zaino, but rather created an adhesive resistent combo of soap and Zaino. While it's never recommended to install a clear bra over Zaino (guess you weren't planning on the clear bra when you zainoed it), it really shouldn't have cause such major problems like this. Even so, your installer should have known to use the 3M adhesive and tar remover in the first place (using a micro fiber cloth). The soap, Zaino, and not so experienced installer seem to be the guilty parties here. Just my $.02.

 

The installer has been formally trained by X-Pel in San Antonio and has been doing this for about three years.

I agree with you. I have checked with X-Pel and with other installers on the Paint Protectioin forum and they feel the same. They advise that the area has to be wiped down twice with 3M Adhesive and Tar Remover, then an alcohol solution to remove the Zaino or any wax.

My installer was using a different "degreaser" that I believe is used in the paint industry. He only wiped it down once with that and a paper towel. This process is less important on the large flat areas than it is on the edges and the indentations where it MUST stick down.

Cleanliness is very important also. There are several places on my bumper where small debris creates a blemish. The color doesn't help. Black shows everything.

We're re-doing it tomorrow.

XP

 

I've been calling around town (Sierra Vista, AZ) about clear bras and been getting a lot of 'huhs?'. This was my reaction the first time I saw a post about them here. I then thought it was just a clear version fo a standard bra. Thanks for the education. I finally found someone here that does it. He charges $20 a square foot. I'll find out tomorrow how much that will be for my car.

 

Here's a close-up of what you don't want to happen when you get yours.



I'll be taking the old one off and putting the new one on tomorrow. I'll let you know how it turns out.

XP

 

A little clear silicone caulk on the edges will fix that right up, good as new.

Mike (ducking and covering)

 

XP, are those chips of dirt below the film? As I said Invisiguard did an excellent job on mine. This is totallu unacceptable. Good that you are getting it fixed.

 

nice!

Its also not a good idea to install the edges of the film right on top of the radius of the body pieces like that, even if it were completely clean. The film adheres most reliably when installed to just before the radius(about 1/16") or wrapped completely around