Donte99TL

Went to go buy a DVD-A but got a little confused. Maybe you can help. When I was looking at them some said DVD-A and others said DVD-A 5.1. The DVD-A 5.1 is the one we want to buy since our system is a 5.1 right?

Jss1

Actually DTS is the one but not all discs are DTS. Stands for "digital Theater Surround". My Denon at home has DTS and dvd's with DTS have a much cleaner sound imo. You are right about 5.1 as the next choice as it is true 6 speaker, 5.1 stands for 5 speakers (3 front, two rear), and the .1 is one subwoofer.

This site explains it.

http://www.dtsonline.com/pro-audio/

Jss1

On the same site they give the current dvd-a DTS library.

http://www.dtsentertainment.com/dvdaudio.php

Fencesitter

All DVD audio discs are recorded into six separate channels, and only a DVD-audio player can decode them. But a lot of the discs also have a separate "5.1" recording on them that a regular DVD-video player can decode. It's like having a computer CD that can be read by a PC or a Mac. It looks like the DTS folks include this "5.1" track on their discs. But the TL's DVD player wouldn't access this information; it's a true DVD-a player that will decode the real DVD-a information. So you can buy any disc labeled "DVD-audio" and it will work.

svtmike

The DTS Entertainment folks make two kinds of audio DVDs: true DVD-Audio [MLP encoded 5.1 mix], and "DTS 5.1 Music Disks" [DTS encoded 5.1 mix].

The TL's audio system will decode either type (that's why it has both the DVD-Audio symbol and the DTS symbol on it). If you play a DVD-Audio disk, the non-Navi system displays "DVD-A". If you play one of the DTS entertainment 5.1 disks, it displays "DTS".

You can buy audio DVDs to play in the TL without worrying about "DVD-Audio" vs. "DTS" even though the DTS 5.1-only disks are not labelled with the DVD Audio symbol.

SACD's are a whole different ballgame; their high resolution content is not accessible by the TL's system.

Mike

svtmike

I need to correct myself here: the "DTS 5.1 Music Discs" are DTS-encoded CDs, not DVDs. I was confused about the physical media partially because they are sold intermixed with DVD-Audios.

Also, on the subject of those discs, I've got the DTS version of Don Henley's End of the Innocence, and am experiencing short bursts of digital noise while playing back in my TL (I don't have any other DTS equipment to try it on). I've e-mailed DTS Entertainment to see if there is a problem with the disc or possibly the decoder in the TL's player.

Mike
04 TL Abyss Blue/Quartz 5AT Naviless #1040

Donte99TL

Thanks guys for your help

kkneubuh

Circut City has a decent selection of DTS - mostly re-enginered soundtracks. Bought Doobie Brothers 'Captain and Me', and Eagles 'Hell Freezes Over'. Fantasic sound compared to the orginal's.

Keith
04 TL Black/Parchment AT

rhizopod

DTS 5.1 will sound worse than DVD-A discrete 6 channel, because it is compressed lossily. (DVD-A employs lossless compression.)Also, the subwoofer channel is not a fully discrete channel w/ DTS.

Fencesitter

I take back my previous clarification - I too am finding it hard to determine what discs are recorded in true discreet 6-channel format. Just today I went to buy some discs for my new home DVD-a/SACD player (Pioneer DV-563-A) and stood there staring at all the conflicting and confusing labels. I don't want to spend money to replace a CD I already own with a compressed recording. Both the DVD-audio and the SACD labels were all over the place: SACD surround, SACD stereo, SACD Hybrid, DVD Advanced Resolution, DVD 5.1, DTS, etc. So instead of buying something to try out the player I hooked up last night, I will spend the evening on the internet trying to crack the code.

brandomc

I agree. DVD-A is much better than DTS. SACD is better than DVD-A. Get ready! All CDs in the future will be in these formatts because they are copyright protected.

OldGuy

I didn't know anything about this subject until I ordered a TL. Then I thought I was getting it until I read this thread. Now I'm really confused. I bought two DVD-A discs to play in my TL when I get it. They both say DVD Audio and also have an "Advanced Resolution" symbol. Hotel California says 'This disc can be played three ways, as Advanced Resolution Surround, as Advanced Resolution Stereo and DVD Video Compatible Dolby Digital". The second one is the new Fleetwood Mac label "Say you Will". It also has the Advanced Resolution Audio logo and a DTS logo and a couple of other Dolby looking logos that I can't read even with a magnifying glass. It also says it is "Advanced Resolution audio and and related visual content require DVD audio capable players. Both of these discs work well on my 5.1 home theatre system. Hotel California is absolutely fantastic. I can't, however, connect what I have read in the posts with what I have said here. Is "Advanced Resolution Audio" another name for DVD-Audio? What is DTS? Only one of my discs says that. Maybe because it is more recent and was recorded that way as opposed to being re-mastered. Very confusing.

JonDeutsch

Brandomc,

SACD is not better than DVD-A. They are essentially equal in overall sound quality. Both have pluses and negatives that the audio elite will debate until both formats eventually die.

Everyone else... here's some info that may help:

All DVD-Audio discs are compatible with all DVD-Video players.

How could this be? Well, everyone who burns a DVD-Audio disc also burns a Dolby Digital or DTS version of the same music. Normal DVD players can playback DD or DTS no problem. This is to ensure that every DVD player can play back some version of the music on a DVD-Audio disc.

The "Advanced Resolution" symbol tells you that the DVD-Audio disc is mastered with high resolution, which will provide enhanced sound quality over standard CDs. Most people aren't aware that CDs really don't have great sound quality (by audiophile standards). In fact, their quality is worse than an LP!

This is because when the CD was developed in the late 70s/early 80s, they couldn't fit a lot of data on a 5.25" disc. So, they had to cut back the resolution/quality of the disc. Luckily, the CD was so superior than the LP in every other way that it was a no-brainer upgrade. But, CD quality isn't really all that great... and you'll find that out first hand when you start listening to DVD-A discs!

DVD-A discs can sample up to 192,000 samples per second. Most DVD-As sample 96,000 samples per second.

CDs? 44,100 samples per second. Quite a difference, eh? Yup! In the same second, DVD-As record more than 4 times as much info than a CD.

On top of that, DVD-A is surround sound.... 6 discrete channels of music (versus CD's 2 channels of music).

Do not confuse DVD-A surround with the phony surround modes on your home receiver! Those surround modes typically take the 2 channels on a CD or DVD and artificially create a surround mix.

On DVD-A discs, 5 mics are setup to record 5 distinct regions of the room or hall where the music is being recorded. The result (in live performances) is previously-unheard of realism. It really puts you "in the room." For studio recordings (rock bands, etc.) the engineer can use 5 channels to put different sound effects, background vocals, etc.,.. with the result giving each element more "room to breathe" in the mix.. Check out REM's discs to hear what I'm saying here.

DTS discs are also 5.1 surround, but they use DTS compression. As a result, DTS discs can be used on CDs or DVDs. Also, as a result, DTS will not sound as good as DVD-A because it is compressed. However, DTS does use higher resolution (96,000 samples / sec), so it could sound better than a CD, but it depends, because CDs are not compressed like DTS.

SACD is not compatilble with the TL's head unit, so it's not really an interesting format for this forum. Sufficed to say, SACD is comparable to DVD-A... it just gets to high quality in a completely different way that some audiophiles feel is superior. The majoirty of SACDs are stereo, not surround, because audiophiles tend to be a conservative bunch, and like the 'purity' of a stereo mix.

In the end, 04 TL owners, feel free to buy:

Any DTS disc.
Any DVD-Audio disc (advanced resolution or not)
Any CD

Note: Sam Goody, Best Buy, and other big vendors carry DVD-Audio discs! You might have to ask to find out where they hide them, but they are there!!

Last, but not least, the DVD-Audio forum is working on a format modification that will make all DVD-Audio discs backwardly compatible with all CD players as well as DVD players.

Hope this helps.
Jon

windycitypc

I've had some bursts of "scratches" or "digital noise" while playing the dts version of "Every Breath You Take - The Classics", by the Police. In my home stereo/theatre, it's just fine.

However, my DTS version of "Brand New Day", by Sting, hasn't had any problems.

Anybody else having issues?

Fencesitter

Hey JonDeutsch -

Thanks for the time and effort on your long post. I think you resolved a struggle I was having went I went to buy SACD (for my home player): many of them said "SACD Stereo" which I assumed was going to be just two channel. I had thought SACD was always 6-channel, but now I know better. But what about DVD-audio - is it always six discreet channels? And finally, isn't DD and DTS "true surround", but just lossily compressed and typically passed over a single digital/optical cable? If 6-channel sounds as good as the DD mix on Roy Orbison's "Black and White Night", I'll be ecstatic.

svtmike

Same thing here on a DTS CD (which is what that Police disk is) of Don Henley's The End of the Innocence. A friend is bringing me Lyle Lovett's Joshua Judges Ruth and Eagles' Hell Freezes Over DTS CDs to see if there are problems with those too.

I'm guessing either the DTS decoder in the TL has a bug, or there's a problem with the error correction when playing CDs.

I've had no problems whatsoever with DVD-As.

Reported it to both DTS Entertainment (via e-mail) and Acura (in the quality survey).

Mike

JonDeutsch

DVD-Audio is not always 6 discrete channels! DVD-Audio has a stereo mode where it maximizes the resolution (192,000 samples /sec) for only 2 channels. However, due to the marketing push for DVD-A vs. SACD, the vast majority of DVD-A are multi-channel. Some high end classical publishers have DVD-A 2.0 (stereo) versions as well as 5.1 versions of the same music.

And, yes, Dolby Digital and DTS is true discrete surround. The difference between DD/DTS and DVD-A is the lack of compression on DVD-A (and potential higher resolution as well).

As a matter of fact, DTS has a much lower compression ratio (4:1) than Dolby Digital. This is why the "high end" movies that have great soundtracks sometimes have DTS soundtracks.. to compress the audio less and provide a better audio experience.

So, as far as compression/quality, in order from worst to best:

DD, DTS, DVD-A (where DVD-A has "lossless compresss" meaning that it is compressed, but in such a way that every single original bit is brought back to life during the decoding process). The other compressed types of formats have varying degrees of losslessness.

Hope this clears things up more than it clouds things over.

Jon