Sivic2k

Drove 2 hours back home mesmerized. The closest Acura dealership was 130 miles away, so I took the 2 hour drive to Ed Martin's Acura in Indianapolis to test out the TL. They were hesitant over letting me drive the 6MT rather than the AT demonstrator vehicle. But, once I let them know how serious I was about purchasing a 6MT in the near future, they handed over the keys.

Since you guys are always hearing accolades about your car, I'll go into the cons first (in no particular order):
1. Disappointing trunk space. The hinges really cut into the trunk area and the pass-through hole looks rather useless for anything other than one pair of skis.
2. Sensitive clutch. The clutch uptake was so sudden, so immediate, so abrupt that I stalled 3 times before getting up and going. Even the salesman stalled out while pulling the car off the lot! The friction point must have been no more than 1 inch above the clutch's fully pressed position. This forced me to modulate the clutch with ankle-strength only. This could be tiring in bad traffic.
3. Tire noise. I was surprised at how loud the Turanzas were on the 17 inch rims, heard mostly at 25-30 mph as a low "whirrrrr." They weren't as loud as my civic, but I was expecting Lexus-like quietness, which I didn't get. Fortunately, the sound was not discernable at highway speeds where wind noise was king (it was a windy day).
4. Claustrophobic interior. My civic felt like a greenhouse compared to the TL even though the TL was much more spacious. Vision wasn't obstructed, but I definately felt a little "caved" in.
5. Bumpy ride. That is one stiff suspension. The plush leather seats cushion against the harshest of bumps, but every crack in the pavement was felt as a subdued but noticeable "thump." I didn't feel as sheltered from bumps as I would expect from a luxury vehicle. Was only marginally less bumpy than the civic.
6. Not the best looker. I had to agree with my wife that the TL has nothing over the BMW's (the old ones) or IS300 in terms of looks. The car seems geared to the male aesthetic with its minimalist, edgy, slightly brutish appearance. My wife said it looked like those angular Cadillacs.
7. Obtrusive gauge pods. I noticed you can't see the speedometer when sitting in the passenger seat. Might be a plus for those living with passenger seat drivers.
8. Somewhat numb steering. This was especially noticeable at highway speeds. In the BMW that I test drove, I could feel a definate center. The TL's steering center was more vague and wasn't as confidence inspiring as the BMW.

Pros (you guys know the pros, so I won't go into detail):
1. The shifter. So effortless. To the younger crowd, it felt like a Tekken 3 Arcade joystick.
2. The torque. I only went to 4k revs, but the torque was prodigious. I noticed no torque steer with normal driving. I gotta say, if you're feeling torque steer on a daily basis, you should reevaluate your driving style and stop driving like a maniac. :thefinger
3. The sexy navi. (Except when I said, "Nearest Acura," it started looking for restaurants. I had to say "nearest Acura dealership" to get the right response). The lady's voice sounded a little grainy though -- too low a sampling rate on her voice recording, I guess.
4. The firm suspension and flat cornering.
5. The immersive audio.
6. The Brembos. I kept stopping too abruptly, almost making my wife do faceplants in the windshield. I wish they made the brake pedal a little stiffer to help with fine brake modulation.

Chuck

So when are you getting that BMW?
Con #5 = Pro #4...
Con #1 - how many dead bodies you haulin?
Con #2 - ya get used to it.
Con #4 - I'm 6'2", and I don't feel that way.
Con #6 - Compared to what? The TL looks like the CTS? How long has your wife been doing crack?
Con #7 - Is that for when your wife is driving?
Seriously, to each their own. Go drive the 3 series, see if you feel crampled. The 5 series, pony up a LITTLE more cash.
Whatever you end up with, hope you enjoy it.
Ciao for now!!

Bitium

I wouldn't expect someone coming from a civic to make those comments.......

And by the way stop listening to your wife :banghead: :lol1:

Sivic2k

Heh, thanks for the tongue-in cheek review of the review. Actually, the pros vastly outweight the cons for me, that's why I am seriously considering the TL. As for Con 5 = Pro 4, I realize this, yet am a little put off by the bumpiness. I appreciate the athletic handling, but they should have made a slightly softer suspension for folks who want it instead of offering only hard (stock) and harder (A-spec).

automata

This has got te be, by far, the worst thing I've seen written about the TL.

TLover

NOOOO!!! Please don't compare my TL to the Bizarro car.

caball88

the only con i really agree with it the tire noise. its not the quietest tire but will make some noise. the windshield is a bit squat because of the sharp angle of the car. but it's pretty big and panaramic. the clutch is sensitive but its very nice once you get use to it. for me stepping up from my 3 series the ride is alot softer. the bmw was pretty harsh on my tushy(i had aftermarket suspension). but even when i had the stock suspension the TL one is softer. if you don't like the looks i can't argue with that. everyone will have their own stylin tastes, if the TL is not something you like looks wise then i would suggest the BMW instead. i know its far but drive by the dealer again sometime and take another look at it and anther spin in it. sometimes it'll take a little bit before you fall in love.

Chuck

I agree that the pros outweight the cons. I see you're in Illinois, I'm in Michigan. So... yes, our lovely roads do make the car feel somewhat "firm". Believe it or not, my 2003 TL-S rode worse. I think the 2004 rides "better". Maybe it's just me.
Go drive the new Z4... talk about a stiff ride. whoa!! The M3 is about as bad. Don't know about the new 5 series, haven't been in one.
I think you'll love the new TL. You could always "torch" the springs... soften them up.
(kidding!!..)

Sivic2k

Similar design philosophy, no?

Chuck

Oh my GAWD!!!

I'm selling my TL tomorrow!!!

cM3go

people call my TL more BMWish than Cadillacish

Tripp11

Yeah...four doors, four tires, trunk, hood.....ohhhhhhhhh, my gosh, the similiarities!!!!

I don't really see it....they look night and day apart to me.

Zeuser

You forgot one Pro: It's an Acura.

With the crap I'm seeing from Germany these days, I'm glad I went for an Acura. And Consumer Reports confirms what I'm seeing on the road everyday.

Chuck

That's the CTS -V too. The normal CTS doesn't look as good as this one.
Hey, the gas filler is on the wrong side on the CTS....

Sivic2k

Are you not seeing it, or are you refusing to see it? Muh ha ha :diablotin

gannet

Wow, you might as well go get that BMW before they make them all ugly.

Tripp11

Dude, for the second time, I don't really see it. I don't think the TL closely resembles that Cadillac....just my $.02.

Aspector Gadget

Con #2: Sensitive Clutch.

On my test drive I stalled twice I believe. But different cars shift differently. And like someone else said, you get used to it, and after that its real easy and smooth.

acuraddict

acuraddict

Prodigious huh, gee, thanks for breaking out the thesaurus there buddy.

By the way, who friggin' cares about the Cadillac? Its a GM for christ's sake!

acugirl

The 3 series or A4 have much more "claustrophobic interior" than TL. Spacewise, the TL is closer to the 5 series or A6. The 3 series is comparable in size to the TSX, IMHO. Now if you compare the pricing ... the TL comes out as an incredible deal.

I am a woman but I do not see the masculine features of the TL as unattractive. It is a car, not a quilt. Actually, the exterior styling was one of the most important decision factors for me, together with the interior and the fantastic features.

I think the TL achieves a great balance between a sporty ride and comfort.

Cadillac? This is an unfair comparion. The Caddy has way more edges and strange shapes. The TL has a conservative design that will age slowly. A less risky, very esthetic design.

My 2 c ...

Tristero

I drove a number of cars in the class, and IMHO TL had the best mix of sportiness and ride quality, less harsh than BMW, though perhaps a bit less sporty too...

About the trunk. Had a late spring snow here yesterday, and left the car outside. Opened the trunk and hte snow from the rear window slid down--a little more ice to pack those dead bodies... now that's what I call bad design. (It didn't help that I had the engine warming and rear defroster on.... :lol1:

Only other downside, can't get my wife out of that claustrophobic drivers' seat--not cause she won't make it, but cause she likes driving it so much....

BrandHdriver

acuraddict,

Not cool - over the line IMO.

Go ahead, flame me. I'm wearing flame-retardant clothing. :tflamer:

TLGator

Damn, I was gonna make a joke about the similarities between the TL and Caddy...doors, windows, wheels...but tripp11 beat me to it. They are both photos of silver cars, though.

No way do those cars look alike. I mean, the Mona Lisa and the "Screamer" are both paintings of faces, but please...(and yes, I mean to compare the CTS to the "Screamer" - that's how I feel every time I see one of those fugly things).

As for space, I really don't know where the original poster is coming from. A Civic more spacious? You're kidding, right? I sat in everything in the TL's class - Audis and BMWs and Infinitis and you name it - NONE of them are as roomy as the TL.

For somebody who was "mesmerized" you sure have a lot of criticisms. Not that we all DON'T nitpick our TL's to death...

Sivic2k

It appears my choice of the word "claustrophobic" was bad. I wasn't saying the interior was small. Rather, it was spacious and much moreso than the BMW 3/IS300 variety. I just felt closed in, like in a jet cockpit, maybe because of the smaller window to interior ratio, maybe because it was an ebony interior, maybe because the windows were more raked than I was used to, etc. The civic seemed to have a larger window to interior area, giving more sense of openness despite its smaller interior. I don't know if I'm making sense. But there you go.

Thanks for the replies... and the flames. I was trying to emphasize what was in essence nitpicking to see what you guys thought. For those who don't know from the first sentence of my original post, I loved the TL. I hope to be a zealous owner in a few months like you guys.

TLGator

Sounds like you're talking about visibility. If so, I would have to agree with you. The TL's pillars and high rear give it quite a bit less visibility than, say, a Civic, or a 3 Series.

kadams64

Firstly, folks...enough with the flame fest

A guy comes, says "I was really impressed with the TL, but here are some negative factors...", and folks start making abusive comments. Lets try to up the maturity level a bit here, okay?


That sense of being "wrapped" in the car is something that appealed to me. You can see the difference right within the Acura lineup- take a look at the interior of an EL, or a TSX: there are slight curves to enclose driver and passenger, but the center console is quite open. Then look at the TL: the center console "flows" down from the dash, and makes a fairly imposing barrier between the driver and the passenger. For me, it made the car feel more "tuned" to me, less ordinary. But I could see how someone used to an open dash design might find it a bit disconcerting, even uncomfortable.

As for the exterior styling cues...most of the angularity of the CTS is visible from the front. The rear quarter view that was used in the illustrating photos above shows the "common" elements in current middle tier luxury sedans- a pronounced wedge shape, slab sides rather than purely organic (think "Taurus") curves, beefy "cobby" aggressiveness. Put those same CTS and TL pictures side by side with a BMW 5 or 3 series, and you'll see more similarities than you'd expect. The CTS, though, really looks different from the front- thats where its "extreme" traits show up.





I doubt anyone would confuse a CTS with a BMW 5 series, but in these pictures they sure look similar, don't they? Its interesting to notice how many visual cues carry over between cars within a particular class at a given point in time.

TLGator

Great post overall, but no, even from that angle the CTS and Beamer do not look similar to me. Again, except for the fact they are both silver four-door sedans. Now, the TL and Beamer, to me those two DO look similar.

kadams64

Heheh Okay, different eyes, different opinions. No question that all three cars have plenty of differences. Anyone familiar with all three in person can pick out those differences pretty quickly- but to me, there are also a striking number of similarities, especially from the side/rear quarter view. By no means am I using those similarities to suggest that the three cars are the same...no way

Oh, and one comment regarding trunk space. In Sivic2k's original post, he mentioned that the trunk seemed cramped due to the hinges. I'd take a look at that again: bear in mind that the entire volume of the trunk is usable. Unlike other cars that don't "conceal" their hinges like the TL does, the hinges don't "squish down" on stuff you have in your trunk when you close the lid. I noticed this a lot when comparing to North American cars: not sure how the Beemer trunk works, though.

vsch

Bumpy ride - check out RSX

Responsive brakes - you are going to need them, this car is very responsive to acceleration

Cadillacish look - it's probably because of that pillar made to emphasize luxury appearance

Claustrophobic - true, the view on the back is like in SUV, this was not too big of a deal to me

zeezz

wow... kadams64, great posting.

campIIIMAF

my god, I've read this entire thread and totally confused. The originator of this message gave pros and cons all of which are all cons. This TL is the cream of the crop compared to everything else out there these days. A definiate bargan for the money. I've owned Chrysler's, GM's, Toyota's, Datsun's, Honda's. The name Acura is pretty much synonomous with Lexus in every quality study/survey for the last 20 years.

Chrysler (2 vehicles). constant nagging burning out taillamps, and dang nab it, when ever I wanted to get it started had to get on the ground with a wrench and rap the starter
GM (2 vehicles) , brakes had to be replaced at 10K and not due to hard braking. Plus my truck for some inane reason refused to go in reverse.
Toyota (1 vehicle). darn, I had a burnt out tail lamp at 50K. jeeesh :cop: no brake replacements, and flawless quality. just wanted somethin new
Honda (7 vehicles), darn, not a damm thing wrong with any one of em.
BMW (1 vehicle and still own) had some quirks but the style is so good lookin can't give it up.

now . . . Acura, this car is a dream to drive, and everyone . . . I mean everyone turns a 180 when they see my ride. Fast and luxurious. Quiet.

Drivers out there who drive civics then drive the TL then have the balls to nick pick it death deserve what they really need . . . a USOEM car! :lol1:

acuraddict

[QUOTE=kadams64]Firstly, folks...enough with the flame fest

A guy comes, says "I was really impressed with the TL, but here are some negative factors...", and folks start making abusive comments. Lets try to up the maturity level a bit here, okay?

Why do we have to up the maturity level? The guy's post had some pretty ridiculous comments in it, so I felt like giving him some shit. The very idea that he would mention the Cadillac - and what his wife thinks - just annoyed me. Let his wife come on here and give her own distorted opinions. I still need to talk to her about something anyway.

campIIIMAF

acuraaddict, I totally agree!!! comparing the GM to the TL . . . what foolishness. + his wife should get her head examined.

there are a lot of loonys out there in that when they know they can't afford a car . . . rip it apart. :ar15: jeeeesh we then see them tootin down the road in their Aztek with bumper stickers saying "I have an honor role student in middle class idiot school". :lol1:

MyJohnson

I've test drivin' the TL 6MT twice. Never stalled. Neither did the salesman. I thought the clutch was just right. BMW clutches I find too stiff and the engage point too far into depressing the clutch. I don't think I would get tired, even in traffic, with the TL clutch.

As far as torque steer - I was turning right in front of traffic with the 6MT and I was on gravel. I noticed 'something' but it was probably just the LSD and thats it. As soon as I was out of the gravel it was fine.

I think the ride quality is excellent. I didn't notice noisy tires, except on the gravel. The interior was almost too quiet, if there is such a thing.

The Caddy is ugly. It doesn't remind me of the TL at all.

I think the interior is just right and the seat ergonomics are great. Due to the sloping sides, the back seat window is slightly small, but who sits in the back seat anyway, my kids? They'll be fine.

Just my 2 cents

Mindcrime

I agree on the interior space subject when compared to the 3 series. I'm selling my 3 series to get a TL and when I first went inside the TL I was really impressed with the size of the interior. Even my wife was impressed with the room the TL had in it. Just my 2 cents.

Formula 350

There is another reason that you can feel 'cramped' or whatever word he used in the TL compared to an old civic. The civic and old Accord had very low beltline. The TL is pretty high. In fact, I have noticed that I can not drive my normal way for very long without getting a bit sore in the sholder. I drive with my elbow on the window sill. The sill is about two inches higer than my other car. It is also about an inch farther away from the steering wheel. These combined makes if a bit of a stretch to drive this way (for me at least). Since the old Hondas had them so LOW, you do feel a bit cramped. Not enough in my opinion, I like the car a LOT.

Sivic2k

Kadams64: Thanks for the reasoned reply.

Sheesh, some people get so defensive over their cars its ridiculous! These are OPINIONS, people! Since this car got so many rave reviews I decided to put the cons first, which I admit, were nitpicky. Nitpick is pretty much all you can do with such a well-thought out, well-engineered vehicle like the TL! I guess some people can't take even the slightest criticism about their cars.

As for the Cadillac comments, I don't fully agree with my wife, but I can see where she is coming from. As kadams64 noted, there are a lot of design similarities in the luxury lines today. Obviously, the TL is trying to find a comfortable styling niche between the German and US luxury cars. She's entitled to her opinion as well. What I DO agree with her on is that the TL is not as pleasing to the eye to ME as the previous gen. Beemers.

Please, let's keep this civil. Feel free to disagree. Leave derogatory comments about the wife out. (And no, acuraddict, I didn't use a thesaurus. "prodigious" isn't some million dollar word).

Xpditor

The main reason I ordered a TL: I about lost my lunch :yack: when I saw what Chris Bangle had done to the BMW 5 series. He messed it up just like he did the 7 series a couple of years ago. It looked like the illegitimate child of one of those chop-trunked Sevilles of old and a Honda Accord. What was he thinking? When I first saw it, I thought it was an Accord that had been rear-ended. :tflamer:

If you're going to get a Bimmer, better get the 3 series before he gets his hands on that one also.

I heard recently that Bangle had been removed from his position as design chief at BMW and was being replaced by the American design studio chief (forgot his name). This could be a good sign. Bangle was last seen being run out of town on a rail with an I-drive knob in his butt. Where it should be.

Xpditor

So glad you said "...previous gen. Beemers."

I pass a parked white 525 everyday. It must be a 2000-2003. It is just stunning in its eye appeal.

Before I ordered my TL, I tried for months to find a lightly used 530 as I couldn't stand the Bangle-ized 2004s. In the whole of South Florida, there was only one or two and they got snapped up fast.

I just missed a 2003 530 with premium and sport pkgs in Silver with 5,000 miles for $40,000 at the M-B dealer. I am still kicking myself for not moving faster on that one. Oh, well! :banghead: