tragic22

I got called in for Acura's "VIP Program" to talk about trading in my WDP 2004 TL w/ 61k and upgrading to something else. I talked to the sales guy about upgrading to a 2006 WDP with the ebony interior (which is the 1st year they started making that color combo. I hate the Parchment interior!). Anyway He gave me some crazy figures so I walked. Two hours later they called me and said that they'd be willing to let me upgrade to the 2006 with only $1000 down and keep the same payments. To me that offer sounds too good to be true especially when you consider the following:

-My 1st payment for this car was on Feb. 1st 2008 so I haven't paid that much on this car yet.
-My car is about to run out of the certified pre-owned extended warranty in about 3000 miles. A 2006 "may" have another year or year and a half left of warranty.


I'm wondering if its just me or is that a really good deal?!?!?

LoveMyTL-S

1k down and keep the same payments does sound good. What is the mileage on the 06? I wonder what they would offer on an 07 or 08?

Oswald Vater

I traded in an 04/base on an 08/navi and got the 08 at 0 down and same payment. This was on a lease expiration and then a re-lease. Your deal isn't bad but I would hold out for a better one. After all, it was they who contacted you. They obviously want or need to move some cars. Make them an offer. The worse they can do is say no.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

Not really enough info....they are gonna make money somewhere....so where is it happening and how much. The truth on that lies in the dealsheet or paperwork. For example (obvious....but easy to understand) same payment and stretch your loan out from 36 mo to 48 mo....and there is money in that equation to be made. All the while...marketing it as you are making the same payment....all the while putting you more in the whole. Not saying this is happening...just saying we dont have enough info here to say whats going on or if its a good deal or not.

enigmaos

iTrader: (4)

it seems too good to be true...

tragic22

I havent gone in yet to really look at or talk about a specific vehicle. The sales manager is actually supposed to call me at 12 today to talk and set up an appointment. I would hope/assume the mileage would be no more than 40k.

It seems like they really want to buy back good condition 2004 TL's, especially certified pre-owned because there's high demand for them. With that I'm hoping that I can get them give me one with A-spec or Navi with maybe an extra $500 down by pushing the fact that its the same exact car and there's no real benefit of upgrading to an 06.

tragic22

Yea I know they have to make the money somewhere. Right now I have a 60 month loan that only started on Feb. 1st. and I've only made 4 payments at this point. I'm pretty certain they're not going to put me on a 72 month loan.
So far nothing is in writing. I have a feeling that when i go in they'll probably try to change it to something like $1500 down and payments go up $30-$40 and they'll probably try to throw in some bogus fees. If they come with any of that non sense I'll walk. My 04 is in perfect condition and like I said theres no big benefit to upgrade to the 06 besides that I'd like to get the ebony interior.

I know for fact 04s are in high demand and I think that they really do want to move their 05 and 06's. A lot of people who want a used TL would probably either go for a 04(same exact car, cheaper, ahead of its time) or an 07 (when they redesigned it).

So you guys really think I should push for "something extra" (A-spec kit, Navi??)
I mean, they did call me.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

Dude....thats a 101 sales tactic....High demand for 2004 TL's....ya sure.

True story....I took my old hooptie Cadillac into the Acura dealer with a set of A-Spec rims to have them mount and road force balance the tires. Just dropped them off....that was all. BUT>....they needed to fill out the full shop ticket which included make/year/ect so they just copied the info off of the hoopty "blues mobile" as we called it.....

I still get those mailers in the mail.....GREAT DEMAND FOR 19XX CADILLACS right now and will pay HUGE trade in, ect ect.....the verbiage varies...but the basic line in the same. OK folks....here we go......GREAT DEMAND FOR THIS?

(drum roll)



Ya sure....great demand. Sold it for $1200 as I recall. Great demand...


Its all about getting you in there and selling you a car. No kidding. They will figure out the numbers later....there is MANY ways to get you the same car payment and make good amts of money in the process. Especially people that are gullible and believe the "sales lines" they toss out like "great demand for your trade in". If there was such great demand....you would still want it wouldnt you? It would be the thing to have wouldnt it?

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

<<---hates admitting he ever owned that car....lol. BUT....at least it was a fifth car or something like that at the time...lol. One of those....got it at a major low price deal off of a friend. Used it a few times as a spare car and sold it later after sitting behind my office here for about a year.

enigmaos

iTrader: (4)

^nice boat/tank there, MB.

GIXXERDK

I think they do this to have used cars in stock. My mom got a mail saying she could get a awesome deal if she traded her 06 or 05 4 runner in. I never looked much further into it, though.

elee712

A few months ago, my acura dealer sent me a "great demand" letter for my 05 TL and offered a new one at a low interest. I did inquire about it but they wanted me to go to the dealer and talk to the manager.

01tl4tl

What is really happening is they dont need the used cars- thats a come on line-!!
I keep getting that same offer to bring in my 03 rsx- a car I have never had---

You are not supposed to be looking at the other used cars- some eff'up of a salesman walked you to the wrong part of the lot and tried to give you the
" this customer has offered to make my entire commission for the month in 1 sale"-!!- price.
Then they scrambled to salvage a sale- now the manager has to step in.

I will give you odds that the manager suggest that for the same payment (because they have convinced americans that payments are ALL that matters) you COULD be driving a brand new 08!!!!!!-- now wouldnt that be nicer than settling for an 06?
really- its a good deal- trust us- we are looking out for you.
right!!!
Happens to be as they need the new cars gone off the lot, fiscal tax year ending soon, and the 09s will be headed for the lot very soon.
Acura makes future allottments of the next best sellers to each dealership, based on current new car sales numbers---its a a scam!!

As for the OPs thoughts on remaining warranty- acura doesnt care what you have left- they run the 156 point check and call it a- certified pre- owned acura, and give it a fresh warranty

If you really want to pay the new car sales tax you have to pay on the sale, plus higher insurance on the more valuable car- with its required full coverage insurance, and the loan rates- and then figure in car value depreciation as soon as it leaves the lot....

I worked at the dealer in the past,- service - parts- knew the salesmen and learned the insider info--thats what my opinion is based on

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

You're only 23, so you'll learn in time. It is just a scam to get you into the dealership so they can see if they can make you walk funny for a few days, or possibly for the entire duration of your note. There is no more demand for '04 TL's than 05-08's. In fact, demand for 04's is likely much less since most people generally try to avoid first year re-designs due to the issues that often plague them. I'm sure the Big Three is currently sending mailings to large SUV and pick-up owners expressing a high demand for senseless, gas guzzling vehicles.

yoolykeme

okay, it's pretty easy to do that math.....

say I have an '04 TL with xx,xxx miles. Dealer offers me an '09 for my car + $1,000, and I make the same payments for new car. Wow, sounds like a good deal, but is it?

Now, let's pretend that I walk into Acura dealership, looking to buy an '09. It's going to cost ~$37,xxx. Normally I would put $2,000 down, finance for 4 years, and be out.

In this case, all you have to do is pretend that your '04 +$1000 is your down payment. I can almost guarantee you that they are seriously going to undervalue you, when making that assessment. They, in turn, make profit when they sell your 04 on the used lot, profit from extended payments, and profit from selling a longer mortgage to another bank. (if you didn't know banks buy and sell mortgages to each other.)

Hope that helps.

tragic22

Well they offered me $17k for my 04 TL w/ 61,000 miles on it. According to Kelley blue book in excellent condition its worth $15,600 on a trade in.
Like I said nothing is in writing so it could be all talk then when I go in I hear a different story. Of course when doing trade-ins you're almost always going to be upside down.
Even if there really is "high demand" for my car I know that dealerships are in business to make as much money as possible. Even when somebody thinks they got an amazing deal the dealership I'm sure still made money.
For me I'm looking at it like this. You can call it naive if you want.
They're offering me more than my car is worth. I've made 4 payments on this car so far. If I put $1000-$1500 down I can get a newer vehicle with less miles (hopefully w/ navi) which will have a better resale value, with a better interior, its still under the factory warranty and besides all that it would save me from having to buy new tires (because these are just about done) and from having to replace the rear bumper (which has a noticeable dent in it from when I was rear ended at a stop light) and still keep the same payments.
I definetly would take that.

tragic22

Also when I initially went in to the dealership to hear what they had to say is when they assessed my vehicle.
Later on was when this convo took place:
HER-We see that you came in today. Why didn't you trade your vehicle?
ME- The numbers just didnt make sense to pay so much for the same exact car. I wanted to pay this much....etc.
HER-So if you can get that deal you'd take the vehicle?
ME- Yea more than likely
HER-Let me speak to my manager...."(Yea that line)
(Then she called me back a few min later)
HER- Well he'd like to do that for you
ME- So you're saying he'd be willing to let me trade in my vehicle for X amount and put X down and pay X a month. He wants to do that deal?
HER- Yes. When you come in ask for Alan.... etc.

Could this have been their plan all along? I dont know. I really dont care as long as I get the deal I want

wgambella

[FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]Dealerships exist for one purpose. PROFIT
If you think they'll do you right, you will learn the hard way. Not that thats a bad thing. We have all been there.

While you might think that they are going to pay you more than blue book value, think about that for a moment. Why the hell would they do that?
They still have to resell the car. That means they'll sell it for less, or equal to what you got for it. I dont think so.


You will eat costs on this somewhere. They'll probably hide the cost in the loan, delivery charge, dealer prep, or some other bullshit they are known for.

Anyone looking to upgrade a vehicle within 2 years of ownership wont come out ahead in a deal like this. Think before you leap.

JMHO and

01tl4tl

NOTHING is done until your credit is approved and their SALES MANAGER has actually put their signature on the contract with all the numbers correctly filled in.
Just wait till they get back the info on your current loan- then suddenly things change!
or your credit rating is lower because you currently have a big car loan, so thats going to change things!!
and it will affect your credit report with the buy sell buy a car- which on paper, makes it look like you got in over your head- now there is a longer term loan- more liabilty on your part....

Try this for fun- go online and check the dealers website- get the SALES MANAGERS name off of it.
That may or may not be the same name as the person they said to ask for- you may be still be going thru the commission based salesman- who will say anything to get you back in the door where they have you at their mercy--ohh let me have your keys so we can double check your car--- or let me move it round back

Here is how it works (an insiders secret view- better than Breaking the Magicians Code!)

Salesman is NEVER supposed to let you out the door--- unless your credit is no good.
They got your drivers license info- name and phone number off of you, and its logged onto a big sheet on the sales wall- their daily activity report- there for all the other sales staff to see and compete against.
There is a space for-- reason car not sold to you- Be Back, Just Looking, Numbers off.
Then either the real manager calls---- or a smart salesman has a female assistant/other sales staff or they may even have a girl where that is her regular job--
call you, and run the phone scam, as they did.
Then you go back and ask for "alan" who was the salesperson in the first place- or their buddy/sales partner/the finance guy...who then works you for the deal. Normally you go from salesman to finance guy/the deal ~closer~ who gets YOU to commit to A deal,
WILL YOU BUY THIS TODAY???
and then the contract still needs Sales Manager approval.
They know exactly how much they have invested in each car on the lot- what the profit margin is- what the finance interest will earn them by getting you on their preferred provider of credt- plus you eat some on the trade because they pay off your car-(KBB means nothing to them) all thats figured in there somewhere---sure, payments of 300 a month- forevvvvvverrrrrrrr.....we can do that!!!

If it takes making this deal to make you learn the car dealers lesson-
(caveat emptor--google it)
so next time you bring a trusted friend who WILL drag you out of there
OR bring the proper amount of personal lubrication- then by all means---
rush out and make that trade!!!
The rest of us will have a good time reading all about!

tragic22

LOL. I hear you. All of you guys make sense.
I may be 23 but I'm not immature when it comes to buying a car. I know some make the mistake of going in all eager and sign there life away. Even when I bought my 1st TL they had me there literally all day. Got there around 10:30am didn't leave with the car until about 7pm. Somewhere towards the end of the whole ordeal, like 5pm-6pm all of sudden the figures changed and the amount we were talking about changed because of this fee and the "bank cant do that". I got frusturated and decided to leave and thats when he suddenly was able to get everything "worked out".
This time around I'm even less motivated to get this car and I have even less patience for the games. I really intend to leave and keep my 04 if they even change the deal by the smallest margin. It looks good, still run perfectly, and I've put work into and there's really not much difference.

Apart from that I've also decided that my offer is $1500 down and keep the same exact monthly payments to trade in my 04 WDP with 61k miles for an 06WDP under 45k miles w/ navi and ebony interior. If they cant do that I'm walking.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

Am I the only one who didnt spend a whole day at the dealer? I negotiated from Consumers Reports supplied dealer cost with all holdbacks and incentives listed and went UP from there. So all we ever were talking about was what their profit was going to be/what was a fair profit on the deal. Of course....our #'s were FAR away from each other and I was told NO WAY, that couldnt be done/below their cost, ect ect. I made ONE trip in to look at the cars and meet the salesman....(1.5-2 hours max) after looking over lot and picking a car color, ect - the rest was done on the phone after I walked the first time. Eventually at the end of the month...the sales manager obviously decided one more sold TL on the books was in his best interest and he called and conceded to my cost. Its all about not letting them suck you in. Fact is....I wouldnt even test drive the car until I had a deal. Thats all about selling you and selling your emotions as well. I recommend NOT test driving it until you have #'s worked out....why? If they dont work out.....there is no reason to waste your time.....and this way they never really have you because YOU are in control of yourself.

Aman

look for a bunch of stuff. How long is the term? Interest? Buyback price?

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

I am interested in your experience therein given the age of 15.....how many cars have your purchased and worked deals on?

01tl4tl

Im sure none of us meant to imply you were immature by any means- if you can afford a new TL you are doing good at your age- the point is the salesman see age as a weakness- more emotional about the purchase- dont you love this car!! All the power- the goodies

they treat women even worse- I have ACTUALLY HEARD:
This car looks goooood (inferring sexy)- YOU look good IN this car... this car IS you
She drove that RX7 home

There is a good start- Consumers has great info- there is even more secret ~holdbacks~ from acura- bonus incentives the dealer gets and doesnt want you to ever know about
My salesman connection said to ask to see the actual invoice for them buying the car (we are speaking about new cars) when they show you a computer printed paper with numbers on it- say NO I meant the actual carbon paper type invoice of what you paid to acura after all their rebates to you- the dealer-, then we will work up a reasonable profit from there
I say 500 is a reasonable profit- you say 2500 is. Lets meet at 750-1000 and I will take this car off your hands.
If there were a high demand for them- it wouldnt be sitting there costing you money and getting dusty

01tl4tl

you never know MB- that younger member may be offspring off a dealership owner, and hears the stories of who they screwed today- told with glee!!

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

^^Knows what he is talking about....cause there IS two invoices. They will try to show you their print out and say thats what you are looking at, when in fact....it is far from it. Difference between Dealer Invoice and Factory Invoice. Like I said already though....just start with a consumers reports price report on the car....and it will tell you what their number is before you even get there.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

Could be....no doubt....but given my experience with youth he would have already blurted that out as fact in the first post. Not knocking him....just wondering what base level experience he has at 15 years of age and how many cars he has purchased and done deals for at that age. In other words....why should the OP listen to his advise? What knowledge base does he hold or expertise in the matter?

Its my opinion...that at age 15, sure, you can be a car enthusiast and enjoy the site, ect and join in talking about the model of cars and weigh in on opinions, ect....but he should be somewhat careful when giving advise about matters he has little to no experience in. I mean...."look for a bunch of stuff..."when it starts out like that its kinda transparent.

Krazylegs

I have a feeling that they are going to put him into a TL lease with 12K miles per year. That would make sense because the lease payments would be lower than a purchase price, and the trade would act as a down payment.

TeknoKing

OK, to the OP, you've financed? leased? your 04 TL?

And what is offered for the 06? lease?

Elaborate...

01tl4tl

they get you on the 15 cents per mile over the limit- usually set at 10,000 miles per year
Who drives their new car that little- why did you bother getting a nice new car!!
get a small electric wheelchair for your around town errands if thats all the miles you drive~

Consumer reports does have really good info- and there are still secret rebates they dont know about. I worked inside the dealership- where do you think I learned about warranty and working on cars and what scams each dept runs on the customer

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

Cliffs for thread:

Acura's VIP Program basically stands for Very Ignorant People Program.

/end

White92

I think everyone should take note that this is NOT an "Acura" program. It is something set up by that individual dealer.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

Then how is everyone getting the same flyers basically in different clothes? Not saying your wrong...just saying I am going on the OP's original post. But your right....its basically just a lead in program and nothing more.

White92

Acura dealers, as well as many other types of dealerships, will use marketing programs like this. It is not an Acura backed or sponsored program. People aren't getting these direct from Acura headquarters. They are getting from individual dealerships.

FYI, there is a similar thread going on over in the RL forums right now. Check it out https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5590.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

Don't take this the wrong way, but stop and look at some numbers for a minute.

04 TL, non nav, 61K Nada clean trade value: $18,025

06 TL, w/nav, 45K Nada retail.......................: $28,125

In order to keep your payments "relatively" close to where they are currently (because nobody REALLY means XXX is the most they're willing to pay for their uprgraded car, right?), they will stretch the note to seven years or possibly longer. Your biggest mistake is talking "payments" with a car dealership. There is only one number you should be discussing here, and that's the difference between the two cars. Call them up and tell them you'll give them your car and $1500 and you'll secure your own financing and arrive with a blank certified bank check in hand. See what they say.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

Where did he give advice? He actually asked a pertinent question in not so many words i.e. he is asking the OP for more details. So far- he hasn't given the OP any "advise."

A little premature to flame the 15 yr old MB.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

HER: Well, he'd LIKE to do that for you..........



(He'd probably also like to bang Jennifer Aniston)

tragic22

My 04 is financed for 60 months on a loan which just started on Feb. 1st. We haven't gone over the specifics but I already told them I'm not interested in a lease before they made this offer. So more than likely the 06 would be another 60 months financed.

tragic22

lol
Just to clarify that isn't exactly what she said. I can remember the exact words but I know I asked so he's willing to give me xxxxx deal and she said yes.

Listen I know talk is cheap and I dont trust anybody that works at the dealership down to the receptionist. Honestly, I go into a dealership paranoid as hell that they're all trying to get me. lol. Maybe I'm a little too paranoid. But I haven't got to speak to the manager yet or sign anything so I could walk in there and they could change everything in which case I'll literally walk right back out.

My point in making this thread is just to say if this deal is for real with no hidden BS does it sound like a good deal

TeknoKing

OK, so you have a 04 TL with so far 4 monthly payments paid out.

Now the lease term they are offering on the 06 is? months? mileage? and finally how much is your monthly payment. on the 04 now.. disclose everything, so we can stop guessing and provide you with straight answers. A lot of people on this forum are pretty good with this stuff.

Financing terms will obviously yield higher payments than leasing a vehicle, this already doesn't sound good to me. IF they offered for you take the 06 on the same financing structure you have for the 04 it would make sense, but then the dealership is the biggest loser....

I still do not see how the dealership is willing to take back the 2004, and just turn the finance into a lease with zero loss to you. (1,000 its a down payment or out of the door?)

End result, you will be paying more for the 06, just indirectly. Crunch in the numbers man.