bluenoser

About the TL being unstable over large humps and depressions. The reason is the rear suspension undergoes a huge alignment change when the rear suspension is compressed, causing the rear wheels to point inward. The effect is when the rear suspension is compressed unequally, the tire carrying the weight will steer the rear of the car. It will go to the right - if it is the left suspension, and left - if it's the right suspension being compressed.
How do I know this? I just completely wore out two sets of rear tires in 4,400 miles. The rubber was obviously ripped off the tires and the tires were very feathered. The alignment was checked and was within specs. (at the limit in one measure), but, when loaded, the rear wheels were very pidgeon toed. The car was carrying four people with luggage, but well within the vehicle's capacity, and the tire pressures were set at 36 lbs. The tires were clearly not tracking straight under this load, so any driving condition that causes the rear suspension to compress will push the wheel sideways.

Norse396

I have almost 6k with no wear what so ever on the tires, and that's in the Chicago area where the suspension gets a heck of a workout. Two sets in 4k? Hard to believe unless some strange driving is going on?

rets

So, bludnose, did you ususally carry the heavy loads in the back during your 4k miles driving?

I just like to know if this case is special or it will apply to everyone's 04TL? Mine has almost 10k miles, but the rear tires seem to wear evenly.

lakeman

I have not had any issues with my HPT's. At 6500 miles they are uniformly worn and have plently of tread left. Yes, the suspension has problems with rough and uneven pavement, but is fine on smooth pavement. Anyone who has problems with rapid wear on the rear must be doing something to cause this - or has an alignment problem. I have not had heavy loads, but in MHO I don't think this is normal.

Aegir

Wasn't that the C&D article where they published a picture of an airborne TL? How dare the TL exhibit odd mid-air handling characteristics! Perhaps the aero kit would have improved in-flight responsiveness.



Don't give credence to C&D for treating cars like this and then having the nerve to bitch about how they respond. They do a very poor job of identifying when the issues they describe are occuring in situations that most responsible drivers will never encounter - like taking a car airborne.

Your rear tires getting burned up like that was unacceptable and something wasn't right for it to happen. The dealer must have agreed because, if I recall correctly, they paid for new tires. I pulled my Turanzas at 2500 miles and measured even treadwear on all four tires with nearly 9/32" remaining on all four. Not denying that you had an issue, but it does appear to be pretty isolated.

smak01

wow...2 sets of tires with just 4k miles?...never heard of that

kelly408

maybe you got one of those super rare RWD TL's

TLGator

Most moving objects, and for that matter most people, are unstable over large humps and depressions.

lovepo9e

I have also never seen......... a bluenose?

Mav

Had the same problem.

http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76129

I have never had adults in the back of my car. Two kids sometimes total of 160 lbs.

Norse396

I've had my 300lb brother back there along with my 180lb dad, many times, no stress could be seen and bumps were handled just fine. Of course I don't get air born with my car either.....

boltjames

Bluenosing is a known characteristic of the car and is to be avoided at all costs. The OP clearly was going to much and that's what caused his problem. It wasn't fat people in the back seat (although we can easily question why he'd put smelly fat people in the back seat). BJ

TLGator

This should not be confused with Brownnosing, which is what most of these auto magazines like to do with anything that's German and RWD.

Mav

Correction....Bluenoser is the name of the guy who started the thread...nothing to do with a car. Yes I know BJ was kidding as I usually sprint home to check these forums to see what other absolutely priceless works of art he has posted.

But...a bluenoser is from a small group of elves in northern Greenland known as "smurfs". Just a little FYI.

bluenoser

Straight freeway driving on the 81 and I95 down the Eastern Seaboard.
The only thing that worked the suspension was the four people and luggage the car was carrying - my 99TL made this trip several times with no problems, so I expected the 04 to be OK as well.
I averaged 30 MPG for the trip, so I wasn't driving too hard.

bluenoser

It was just one trip from Nova Scotia to Florida and back.
Have you carried back seat passengers and looked at the angles of your rear wheels? Mine are splayed out at the bottom and toed in when carrying passengers.

bluenoser

I agree that airborne manoever is over the top, but when loaded mine definitly has rear steer when one side or the other is compressed further.
Yes, my home dealer are picking up the tab for two RE 750s, so I could get back home. Today they installed four new RE030s, saying they were the replacement for the "defective" EL 42s.
I sure hope I have an unrelated case

bluenoser

Rear wheel steer/wear for sure!!

bluenoser

They definitely thump when bald. I suspect a geometry or suspension link problem since my alignment was within specs.

automophile

This sounds very weird. I can't ever remeber seeing a suspension that changed toe-in as it went up and down. Camber maybe, but toe-in? Makes no sense.

My guess is that the rear toe-in is ALWAYS off, and the tire scrub is exacerbated by having more weight in the rear.

I'd find a good independent shop that can do 4-wheel alignment and have it checked outside the dealer.

Lore

And definitely make the dealer foot the bill (the one that said your alignment was within spec). Make sure that you get them to give you the alignment specs for the 04 TL; many machines don't have them in their computers yet. I have it somewhere at home; give me a PM if you need them.

KJSmitty

Do what we use to do - Put 4 people in the car and weight in the trunk to simulate your driving situation, only do it on the alignment rack and check the specs then....... I'm guessing you would see the toe-in that's causing the excessive wear!

One would think though, if your getting that much "drag", your gas mileage would have been less than 30...?

bluenoser

Thanks for the offer. They gave me a copy of the alignment results showing the before, after and the specified range. Would that be sufficient to give to an alignment shop?
I actually believe they're correct with the car unladen, but there's an obvious change in both camber and toe in when the car is carrying passengers.

kelly408

30mpg?? i havent taken my car on long trips yet to test it fully on strictly highway but i drive about 70% highway and i get 23mpg usually. does anybody actually get 30mpg?

bluenoser

I think that's what has to be done.
The tires were actually grained like you see on a race car and there were handfulls of rubber powder inside the spokes of the rims and all over the back of the car.
If I knew how to post pictures, you could see the results.
As far as the gas mileage goes, it might have been off the charts with the wheels going straight.

kosh2258

$.02.

I just read an article at the Detroit Free Press website that stated the TL is twitchy. Right. I've driven mine down a straight stretch of freeway with both hands off the wheel somewhere between 3/4 of mile and a mile and the car didn't budge from it's path. Really unstable that.

If you look carefully, you'll see that RWD fever has taken over the buff rags and anything FWD is now kaka regardless of how good it may have been last year or the last five years. :rocketwho

These guys get into these cars, drive the crap out of them for a day or two and then jump right into something else. They seldom spend enough time with them to learn about them. If a Ferrari is twitchy, it's a drivers car that requires skill and finesse. :bowdown: If it's something like a TL, then it's darty and hard to drive. :ar15:

The last time I bought something based on what the buff rags said, I ended up with the biggest POS I've ever owned. They positively wet their pants over the car, but after a few years and some nasty real world experiences owners had with the cars lack of quality or reliability, the rags changed their tune. It was a real SAAB story let me tell you.

I have the 6MT in mine with the LSD, and while I have experienced the torque steer, I've yet to experience the tendency to pull on uneven surfaces that I've read about. And my car, so far, certainly isn't twitchy.

Bobzmcishl

Ted,

Good post. There is no question that RWD cars offer better performance mainly due to weight being more evenly distributed between front and rear tires. BMW has this down to a science which is one major reason they handle so well. I started out looking for RWD luxury cars but could not find any that had the value and quality of a TL. I just wish the Acura TL did have RWD. The torque steering is sometimes annoying and I have an automatic. Cadillac is switching over to RWD as has Chrysler. I bet Acura fixes the torque steering problem in the 2005 model. I have driven other FWD cars that have little to no torque steering..

EZZ

Torque steer is something you just can't fully fix, especially in a high powered FWD car. Acura has done the absolute best at controlling torque steer but they have reached their limit. Their higher power cars are now going to utilize AWD and this is evident in their new concept RL.

lakeman

kosh2258, I agree with you assessment on the car mag testers. My last car was an 88 911. You talk about twitchy- serious get into BIG trouble twitchy - if you are not real careful. The TL with 270 ponies (more than my 911) has trouble getting the power to the gound in the lower gears. Just as I did with my 911, I learned to moderate my power in the lower gears. You are so right about these car mag guys not taking the time to learn a car.

On the other hand, I have experienced pulling and darting on uneven surfaces. (Nothing really dangerous like a 911, just some tugging on the wheel.) Again I now have learned when and how to apply the power and only have this problem if I intentionally cause it.

eaRL

Here...here.