SergeyM

8th place Saab 9-3 Aero Manual
7th place Volvo S60R AWD Manual
6th place Cadillac CTS Manual
5th place Audi A4 3.2 Quattro Auto
4th place Acura TL Manual
3rd place Infiniti G35 Manual
2nd Place Lexus IS350 Auto
1st Place BMW 330i Sport Manual no active steering

Acura Audi BMW Cadillac Infiniti Lexus Saab Volvo
0-60 5.9 7.5 6.0 6.9 5.9 5.1 6.4 6.4
1/4mile 14.6 15.7 14.8 15.2 14.6 13.7 15.1 14.6
@MPH 97 91 97 93 98 104 97 98
skidpad .91 .83 .89 .83 .85 .85 .81 .85
lane
change 62.5 60.0 61.7 62.1 60.0 58.7 60.6 61.8

Ride 7 6 9 8 8 7 5 5
Handling 7 7 10 8 9 9 5 6
Steering 4 4 4 3 4 4 3 3


Wow! Lexus is fantastically fast!

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

I thought BMW 330i and Lexus 350 are priced more than $43K..
You could get TL manual for like under $32K..

Still, I like the new Beemer and Lexus. They're hot..

AznBalla

uhhh yeah.. the IS350 is retailed at over 40K... the 250 is the econo. version..

mio

wow, that is350 is fast.

nikko

This confirms again that new 330i is second to none on overall evaluation.
I am really impressed by new Lexus, my wife has an eye on it and I see myself getting one for her pretty soon!

ChicagoSteel

It just proves that C & D still has a BMW bias. The Is350 should have taken the cake.

sweetride01

S60R manual, 0-60 in 6.4, quarter in 14.6??? I can attest to the AUTO (which has 50lb-ft less torque) being faster than that!!!

ChicagoSteel

They dont always race the cars that they are testing. They often use "old' times that they have tested previously. They also have a way of fucking things up. I remember them putting 15.2 for the 3.5 Altima 5 speed. Too bad they're seeing low 14's on the altima's site.

power-fade

Lexus has 306 HP

TLover

No shit. There's NO WAY anyone will find a 330i or IS350 for $35,000.

EZZ

The base price of the 330i is over $36k. I've never seen a base 330. The pricing tier will now have the upper entry lux sports sedans/coupes at over $40k (330,IS350,S4) and the middle entry lux sports sedans/coupes between $30-$40k (G35, TL, 325, IS250).

Monte TLS,MAX

Wow they got 5.1 sec to 60mph in auto for that Lexus.............wow.

TLover

If the test had a 325 and an IS250, it would've been G35, 325, TL, IS250, in that order.

ndx2

Car magazines always love the dynamics of BMW's... and despise Saab's with a passion.

Was the 9-3 Aero an '05 model or the '06 with the v6 turbo?

I'm really impressed with the IS350's performance... well, straight-line performance. The lane change/slalom number is horrible.

Also, keep in mind that the IS and the 3 are wearing high performance tires... I know the IS is wearing Michelin P/S 2, not sure about the 3 with sport pkg. I bet the IS would turn into a 15 sec car with the EL42's

I'm just shocked to see that the TL has the best lane change/slalom speed.

Man, the more I look at the results, the more I think this result is BS. The 9-3's steering/handling is actually pretty sweet... the only car in this group with passive rear wheel steering.

Meh.

ChicagoSteel

The Bmw doesnt deserve to be where it is, simple as that. It has nice performance, but otherwise is out classed by almost all the cars on there. Too much subjectivity apparently, or maybe they armwrestle for the rankings and the BMW is a better armwrestler. (Since they consistantly do this shit.)

And someone is right, if the 325 were up there it would still be ahead, just because it's a BMW.

ndx2

Well, I wouldn't say the 3 doesn't deserve the 1st place - it is a well engineered car.
The test is just stupid. These magazines need to be more objective and consistent... for example, compare 330i vs C350, IS350 vs G35, and throw in the CTS somewhere in there... IS250 AWD vs A4 2.0T/3.2 Quattro vs S60/R AWD...

And leave the TL and its FWD the hell alone!

ChicagoSteel

I have no problem with the TL losing, I think that FWD is a damper, however based on those slalom numbers I was surprised.

I have a problem with a BORING BMW beating a beautifully redesigned Lexus that out does the BMW up and down. (Short of the Slalom.)

The whole "Gotta have it" bullshit is what puts a mediocre BMW over the top. A mediocre BMW is still out classing most of the planet, so you BMW guys dont get your thongs in a bunch.

ndx2

"The whole 'Gotta have it' bullshit" trend is just as bad with Lexus as BMW, imo. Lexus fellas realize this, which is one of the reasons why they're offering the boring entry level IS250 that wouldn't excite any car enthusiast.

Have you driven both cars? I haven't driven either, but imo, while IS350 is very nice, it still lacks a lot of high-tech features found on the 330i.

Good thing they put on some sticky tires; any less, it would've been real embarassing for Lexus.

Maybe the slalom numbers will improve with (if offered) optional sport suspension, but I'm not surprised to see Lexus sacrificed handling for their well-known cushy, floaty ride that women and old people love. Performance oriented people would hate this, but no MT option, so they're not the target market here.

Well, this is a moot point... they're not lucrative enough for me to trade in my TL anyway.

TBnDFW

Road & Track tested the 330i w/sports pkg and showed it wearing Potenza RE050 A's.

I'm beginning to wonder why car magazines even bother with objective tests.

Two accelleration tests and two handling tests.

The TL beat the 330i, G35, and the IS350 in the handling tests, but got the lowest subjective score of the four for handling.

While it lost badly to the IS350 on accelleration, it tied the G35 and beat the 330i.

But hey, it's Car & Driver. They had a Lamborghini come in 2nd place in a six way supercar comparison in the August issue. The car's clutch went out and it couldn't even be tested.

SergeyM

So it looks like IS350 is not just the fastes entry-level luxury-sports sedan it is also faster that any sedan with a V6, I6 or V8 engine short of M/AMG cars. For example, Lexus GS 430 needs 5.7 sec to get to 60mph, MB E500, BMW 545 and M45 from Infiniti are all around 5.2-5.3 sec. The upcoming GS 460 must be a beast too. Looks like my next car will be a Lexus.

EZZ

Not shocking. Cars have been getting faster and faster lately. The Infiniti GTR will come out next year and will be unveiled this year with over 400hp. The next G35 will probably be even more powerful than the Lexus (knowing Nissan's obsession with horsepower). BMW is rumored to be going turbo with the 335. Things are looking interesting these days in terms of horsepower. Speed freaks can always buy an STi if they want the fastest car these days

nikko

Man...you really hate BMW in and out...what did they do to you?

nikko

Sergey, I took my 545i to drag strip again last Saturday and this is what I've got with DTC off (same as VSA on TL) and quarter tank of gas:
0-60 mph.......5.02 sec
1/4 mile..........13.85 sec @ 105mph

These results are slightly better than the ones I've got a few weeks ago and show that the actual times listed on BMW website are very conservative.

ChicagoSteel

I dont hate them, I think the M series is amazing, but I am definitely a Benz guy.

It is clear that the mags are bias, heck the e55 ate up the new M and still lost. (Though it was a VERY old test.)

The fact is the 3 series is boring and bland, and yet beat a very refined/stylish new vehicle.

Boredom vs. New

Makes sense.

TampaMike

Considering the bias towards RWD the TL came in right where I expected and closest to the G35 which in my opinion is the closest competitor. Pricing and content are most similar between the TL & G35. Being RWD, I would expect them to nod to the G35. Now the IS and 330 were significantly higher in cost, comparably equipped. They will worship BMW irregardless, but I believe the IS makes great strides in topping the 330.

Now, what the heck is a "Gotta have it factor"???? Oh yeah, it must be the fudge factor used to justify bias.

A slight side note. I giggled when I saw mention of rattles....on the G35!

EZZ

Well, I'd rather suffer rattles than a complete breakdown. The 330 numbers were from a prior test because the test car broke down before they had a chance to test it Absolutely pathetic

mickey3c

I wouldn't call it a bias... it is just plain fact that RWD handles better in many road conditions. get snow tires if you have to... and it looks as if the only cars in the 35K bracket are the TL an G35 lol

nikko

True.

Acuraluvr

iTrader: (2)

BMW do make good cars but it seems that some magazines are just into their driving dynamics and give them the top place...........

ChicagoSteel

RWD definitely handles better, however go tell the Slalom driver that.

SDosMil

Scans of the article halfway through this vwvortex page...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2161181&page=4

I think the review was quite favorable for the TL, and the skidpad and lane change numbers were tops! Still, I can understand how the editors would choose an overall better handling car like the 330 as the #1 pick, just like they rated the TSX #1 compared to other more powerful cars like the Subaru Legacy GT. It's not all about numbers. I know it's not a perfect comparison for everybody, where items such as price, looks, navi are important.

Hey, did anybody see the G35 'rattles' in the summary lows?

mickey3c

don't believe half of the mag articles you read and slalom and skidpad greatly depend on the shoes the car is wearing...

ChicagoSteel

Yeah no shit, but we'll let the subjectivity, which allowed the BMW to win, slide.

Lexus should be laughing.

lindros2

I can tell you from driving four of these (my TL daily, my G35 w/o sport pkg as a "backup" driver and the G35 sport / A4 and 330i at a BMW driving event), that the BMW is by far the best "driver's car" but lacks amenities (note they had the iDrive-less cars at the event).

The new "B7" A4 is actually quite competant, especially because it has some S4 suspension componentry. This surprised me.

The G35 Sport (2005 w/ 18" wheels) scared the crap out of me - either the tires were bad or the suspension is really inferior to the BMW and Audi on an autoX course.

-josh

ChicagoSteel

Yes, but driving the car isnt what wins the test. They offer up too many variables, but they push it over with the "gotta have it" bullshit.

Yeah gotta have it, like a Mustang.

ndx2

Did they not have a C320 (or even C230) at that event? Personally, I think the C-class sport sedans feel much, much better than the 3... I almost chose a C230 over my TL just for that reason (but couldn't find an MT, so that was out).

Anyway, I just saw that the IS's slalom figures were due to their stability control being permanently on... which can easily be overriden, but that still sucks. What a waste of perfectly good set of tires (stickiest of the group's, imo).

03CoupeV6

Wow I read that article and what a grand piece of shit the 3-series is, and with whoever said Car and Driver's BMW bias is sickening. Good luck enjoying the driving experience right behind that tow truck. Car and Driver REALLY needs to look at the big picture... the "enjoyment" factor in a car is COMPLETELY negated when the car suffers from such huge electrical problems.

Boosted_2gz

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...91#post1275591

detailed scans available on the top link.
Btw, for some slight defense to the lex, the IS350 is priced at $35k base, and it produced 3rd fastest handling number simply because they cannot disarm the vsd and traction control (still it pulled .85g with vdim and trac, imagine how it handles without one!)

on a side note, the bimmer broke down, and it still takes the 1st place, I find that kinda hilarious....

EZZ

From reading about the new IS, the VDIM is so integrated into the safety system that it will be virtually unstoppable. I think Lexus tuned the safety system so completely into the brains of the car that they couldn't offer a disable switch unless extensive testing was done (just like the GS300/430). It also weighs 3600 lbs which doesn't help.

ChicagoSteel

3600 lbs doesnt help what?

The car ran a near mid 13 second 1/4 and pulled skid pad numbers that were decent in the class, all with a traction system fully functioning.