bye bye TL, welcome Accord
11-18-2005, 06:25 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
bye bye TL, welcome Accord
Only had the 04 TL 6MT for a short time, but it was long enough time to piss me off completely. The quality of the car was on pair with some domestic 10-15 years old clunkers. The car rode nicely, but dealing with all the issues scared me even though I had extended warranty thru Acura Certification.
First, rattles – 10-15 different unidentified rattles – where is the Acura quality (my wife RSX is quiet and does not rattle at all – was expecting the same)
Listening to a loud music is ok when I am alone, but driving with someone else I was embarrassed. The car impresses only when parked – drive it and it seems like it is falling apart.
Tires/suspension – horrible – I had 4 people in the car and when drove over the bumps a 10yr. old Buick was more stable – the back floated like a boat - at 16k my tires were junk (roughly a year of driving) barely any grip on wet road thru 1-2-3 gear with VSA on.
20MPG in the city should be something like 15MPG – highway MPG was amazing on the other hand.
Leather/butt prints – I can only imagine how it would look like after another 50k.
People who think that Acura uses better materials than Honda should look one more time.
I extensively compared my TL to a brand new Accord V6 EX and there is nothing, really nothing better/special on the TL – everything seems to be the same quality or worse.
I agree that there are more gadgets and options, but the quality of the materials is identical – do not be fooled.
Engine – 3.2L is not impressive anymore at all compared to 3.0L in Accord which is happy to sip regular gas.
Things that I will miss:
HID
6MT
Day/night mirror and blue tint outside mirrors
Everything else was just pure useless in this car for me.
This is just my opinions after 2-3 months of ownership of the TL. I would never though I would be that disappointed in a Honda product.
First, rattles – 10-15 different unidentified rattles – where is the Acura quality (my wife RSX is quiet and does not rattle at all – was expecting the same)
Listening to a loud music is ok when I am alone, but driving with someone else I was embarrassed. The car impresses only when parked – drive it and it seems like it is falling apart.
Tires/suspension – horrible – I had 4 people in the car and when drove over the bumps a 10yr. old Buick was more stable – the back floated like a boat - at 16k my tires were junk (roughly a year of driving) barely any grip on wet road thru 1-2-3 gear with VSA on.
20MPG in the city should be something like 15MPG – highway MPG was amazing on the other hand.
Leather/butt prints – I can only imagine how it would look like after another 50k.
People who think that Acura uses better materials than Honda should look one more time.
I extensively compared my TL to a brand new Accord V6 EX and there is nothing, really nothing better/special on the TL – everything seems to be the same quality or worse.
I agree that there are more gadgets and options, but the quality of the materials is identical – do not be fooled.
Engine – 3.2L is not impressive anymore at all compared to 3.0L in Accord which is happy to sip regular gas.
Things that I will miss:
HID
6MT
Day/night mirror and blue tint outside mirrors
Everything else was just pure useless in this car for me.
This is just my opinions after 2-3 months of ownership of the TL. I would never though I would be that disappointed in a Honda product.
11-18-2005, 06:40 AM
#2
Team Anthracite Member
I just wanted to say that I've taken both cars apart (the 2005 TL and the 2005 Accord) and the quality of the materials is DEFINITELY not the same. If we're talking about the same materials of course... I'm talking about dash materials, door materials, seat materials, console materials... that's kinda thing. The TL definitely has better materials. I'm not knocking the Accord AT ALL, I love that car, but I think the TL is in a higher class.
I honestly think you just had a lemon. My car has been solid and amazing to drive since day one. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience with the TL, but enjoy your new ride.
I honestly think you just had a lemon. My car has been solid and amazing to drive since day one. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience with the TL, but enjoy your new ride.
11-18-2005, 07:31 AM
#3
The wife and I always looked at the TL as a honda accord with better style
4 doors, and a 6 speed manual transmission.
I did not figure it was any better than the accord, maybe it handles a bit better,
with the tradeoff of the stiff ride.
I think the only brand I would buy a first model year of is the toyota/lexus,
you have a good chance of not having problems with that, but everything else
its best to stay away from the first year.
I would guess Acura took care of some of the issues by late 2005, as our car
does not have a single problem yet, I have not heard any rattles, the seats
and dash seem ok, but being Japanese, with leather made in Mexico, I
dont expect it to hold up like European leather.
I dont think rattles would bother me, since they are easy to fix in most cases,
just fix it and be done with it.
As far as the leather goes, I bet you could make the dealers put in the 2005
leather, which holds up a little better...
Now the loaded Accord is not far in price from the TL, but there are zillions
of them on the road.
The hybrid would have been cool, but you have to give up the manual
transmission and all its fun factor.
I wish they had put a hybrid in the 4 cylinder accord, that way, you get
the performance boost (they could up it a bit), but even better mpg.
If they put the tsx engine in the accord plus 40 or so HP boost from the electric,
that would be quite cool, you might get something like 35 city/ 30 hiway or better!
Brett
4 doors, and a 6 speed manual transmission.
I did not figure it was any better than the accord, maybe it handles a bit better,
with the tradeoff of the stiff ride.
I think the only brand I would buy a first model year of is the toyota/lexus,
you have a good chance of not having problems with that, but everything else
its best to stay away from the first year.
I would guess Acura took care of some of the issues by late 2005, as our car
does not have a single problem yet, I have not heard any rattles, the seats
and dash seem ok, but being Japanese, with leather made in Mexico, I
dont expect it to hold up like European leather.
I dont think rattles would bother me, since they are easy to fix in most cases,
just fix it and be done with it.
As far as the leather goes, I bet you could make the dealers put in the 2005
leather, which holds up a little better...
Now the loaded Accord is not far in price from the TL, but there are zillions
of them on the road.
The hybrid would have been cool, but you have to give up the manual
transmission and all its fun factor.
I wish they had put a hybrid in the 4 cylinder accord, that way, you get
the performance boost (they could up it a bit), but even better mpg.
If they put the tsx engine in the accord plus 40 or so HP boost from the electric,
that would be quite cool, you might get something like 35 city/ 30 hiway or better!
Brett
11-18-2005, 08:21 AM
#5
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well i hope the best for you.
but keep one thing in mind, first year models (04) are going to have problems.
Good luck bro
*don't even buy first year models.
sang
but keep one thing in mind, first year models (04) are going to have problems.
Good luck bro
*don't even buy first year models.
sang
11-18-2005, 08:29 AM
#6
I hope your new Accord serves you well. I can certainly appreciate your complaints as I see / hear about it more often than I would expect from Acura.
Be aware the Accord and TL com from the same assembly plant in Ohio. I began to wonder if my personal criticisms of the TLs interior assembly were valid when I carefully compared the Accord to the TL. I did find the materials better in the TL. Features and technology are very apparent differences, but I looked at details like door window surrounds, trim pieces, leather texture variances and seam alignment.
Generally, I found the TL better. But not all areas. One of my pet peeves is the TL glovebox gap. The same glovebox door is used on the Accord, which fit tight. Yet nearly every TL I see has a gap or misaligned glove box. Go figure.
I also found the TL had extra trim pieces around the door windows (interior). This may be aestically a nicer finish, and perhaps also a better seal for wind noise? Good idea...but why the heck are they so creaky? So I see many good ideas in the TL over the Accord, but have some reservations about Acuras assembly / execution. Bottom line, I find them minor to the superlatives the car offers me in other areas. Still, I wonder why Acura would not better address seemingly minor and manageable details which have such a huge impact on the percerption of the car's quality.
That all said, we have 2 new Toyota products in our family corral. An 06 Avalon LTD and an 06 GS300. I admit I am a fan of Toyota / Lexus and give them a nod on at least interior assembly over Honda. They just don't drive the way Hondas do but do many things well. BOTH the GS and Avalon have interior rattles, buzzes and tics. Both cars ommit noises that are much more audible than my TL's. I will still give the Yotas the trophy on materials and interior fit, but I would now say my TL (the oldest of the 3) is less irritating with 'tolerable' interior moans and groans. Being the TL is a tighter ride, I am also more forgiving of interior sounds.
I really believe the era of quality has waned for an era of entusiastic technology in automobile products. I think companies like Toyota / Lexus, Honda / Acura and even German premium brands are riding on past reputations of higher quality. Although I acknowledge the technology offered in today's cars is impressive (do I really need the GPS to adjust my interor A/C settings???), I would rather it be built well over throwing more feature content in the package. I do, at least acknowledge Honda for it's underappreciated focus on ULEV engines (with still impressive performance and economy) and high safety ratings across its product line up. Similarly, Toyota for Hybrid technology.
I worry that these quality touted brands will shoot themselves in the foot by not maintaining the quality factor which tends to have the most gravity of their brand recognition. Companies like Jaguar & Range Rover have taken it on the chin for being high end products you just could not rely on. They are making strides, but what has it cost them in the long run? My personal take is that this is where Mercedes, and to some extent BMW, are now venturing.
My Isuzu SUVs were never touted as leading edge, sohisticated or high style rides. But the were consistent in assembly, wore like iron and never surprised you with finicky behavior. They never made me grin the way my TL does. But the globebox fit well and the interior never complained as you bounced down the road. And still they were never known as quality products.
I think our expectations of new cars may be forcibly changing. I know I never expected to notice rattles in a Lexus or Acura. But also, I know I never expected to drive a car that 'listens' to me, accelerates with turbine like smoothness, gets reasonable economy while making tree huggers rejoice aall while cutting my insurance premium in half with expectations of saving my ass after I drive off a bridge because I was trying to isolate and interior buzz!
Ride on!
Be aware the Accord and TL com from the same assembly plant in Ohio. I began to wonder if my personal criticisms of the TLs interior assembly were valid when I carefully compared the Accord to the TL. I did find the materials better in the TL. Features and technology are very apparent differences, but I looked at details like door window surrounds, trim pieces, leather texture variances and seam alignment.
Generally, I found the TL better. But not all areas. One of my pet peeves is the TL glovebox gap. The same glovebox door is used on the Accord, which fit tight. Yet nearly every TL I see has a gap or misaligned glove box. Go figure.
I also found the TL had extra trim pieces around the door windows (interior). This may be aestically a nicer finish, and perhaps also a better seal for wind noise? Good idea...but why the heck are they so creaky? So I see many good ideas in the TL over the Accord, but have some reservations about Acuras assembly / execution. Bottom line, I find them minor to the superlatives the car offers me in other areas. Still, I wonder why Acura would not better address seemingly minor and manageable details which have such a huge impact on the percerption of the car's quality.
That all said, we have 2 new Toyota products in our family corral. An 06 Avalon LTD and an 06 GS300. I admit I am a fan of Toyota / Lexus and give them a nod on at least interior assembly over Honda. They just don't drive the way Hondas do but do many things well. BOTH the GS and Avalon have interior rattles, buzzes and tics. Both cars ommit noises that are much more audible than my TL's. I will still give the Yotas the trophy on materials and interior fit, but I would now say my TL (the oldest of the 3) is less irritating with 'tolerable' interior moans and groans. Being the TL is a tighter ride, I am also more forgiving of interior sounds.
I really believe the era of quality has waned for an era of entusiastic technology in automobile products. I think companies like Toyota / Lexus, Honda / Acura and even German premium brands are riding on past reputations of higher quality. Although I acknowledge the technology offered in today's cars is impressive (do I really need the GPS to adjust my interor A/C settings???), I would rather it be built well over throwing more feature content in the package. I do, at least acknowledge Honda for it's underappreciated focus on ULEV engines (with still impressive performance and economy) and high safety ratings across its product line up. Similarly, Toyota for Hybrid technology.
I worry that these quality touted brands will shoot themselves in the foot by not maintaining the quality factor which tends to have the most gravity of their brand recognition. Companies like Jaguar & Range Rover have taken it on the chin for being high end products you just could not rely on. They are making strides, but what has it cost them in the long run? My personal take is that this is where Mercedes, and to some extent BMW, are now venturing.
My Isuzu SUVs were never touted as leading edge, sohisticated or high style rides. But the were consistent in assembly, wore like iron and never surprised you with finicky behavior. They never made me grin the way my TL does. But the globebox fit well and the interior never complained as you bounced down the road. And still they were never known as quality products.
I think our expectations of new cars may be forcibly changing. I know I never expected to notice rattles in a Lexus or Acura. But also, I know I never expected to drive a car that 'listens' to me, accelerates with turbine like smoothness, gets reasonable economy while making tree huggers rejoice aall while cutting my insurance premium in half with expectations of saving my ass after I drive off a bridge because I was trying to isolate and interior buzz!
Ride on!
11-18-2005, 08:40 AM
#7
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Originally Posted by TampaMike
I hope your new Accord serves you well. I can certainly appreciate your complaints as I see / hear about it more often than I would expect from Acura.
Be aware the Accord and TL com from the same assembly plant in Ohio. I began to wonder if my personal criticisms of the TLs interior assembly were valid when I carefully compared the Accord to the TL. I did find the materials better in the TL. Features and technology are very apparent differences, but I looked at details like door window surrounds, trim pieces, leather texture variances and seam alignment.
Generally, I found the TL better. But not all areas. One of my pet peeves is the TL glovebox gap. The same glovebox door is used on the Accord, which fit tight. Yet nearly every TL I see has a gap or misaligned glove box. Go figure.
I also found the TL had extra trim pieces around the door windows (interior). This may be aestically a nicer finish, and perhaps also a better seal for wind noise? Good idea...but why the heck are they so creaky? So I see many good ideas in the TL over the Accord, but have some reservations about Acuras assembly / execution. Bottom line, I find them minor to the superlatives the car offers me in other areas. Still, I wonder why Acura would not better address seemingly minor and manageable details which have such a huge impact on the percerption of the car's quality.
That all said, we have 2 new Toyota products in our family corral. An 06 Avalon LTD and an 06 GS300. I admit I am a fan of Toyota / Lexus and give them a nod on at least interior assembly over Honda. They just don't drive the way Hondas do but do many things well. BOTH the GS and Avalon have interior rattles, buzzes and tics. Both cars ommit noises that are much more audible than my TL's. I will still give the Yotas the trophy on materials and interior fit, but I would now say my TL (the oldest of the 3) is less irritating with 'tolerable' interior moans and groans. Being the TL is a tighter ride, I am also more forgiving of interior sounds.
I really believe the era of quality has waned for an era of entusiastic technology in automobile products. I think companies like Toyota / Lexus, Honda / Acura and even German premium brands are riding on past reputations of higher quality. Although I acknowledge the technology offered in today's cars is impressive (do I really need the GPS to adjust my interor A/C settings???), I would rather it be built well over throwing more feature content in the package. I do, at least acknowledge Honda for it's underappreciated focus on ULEV engines (with still impressive performance and economy) and high safety ratings across its product line up. Similarly, Toyota for Hybrid technology.
I worry that these quality touted brands will shoot themselves in the foot by not maintaining the quality factor which tends to have the most gravity of their brand recognition. Companies like Jaguar & Range Rover have taken it on the chin for being high end products you just could not rely on. They are making strides, but what has it cost them in the long run? My personal take is that this is where Mercedes, and to some extent BMW, are now venturing.
My Isuzu SUVs were never touted as leading edge, sohisticated or high style rides. But the were consistent in assembly, wore like iron and never surprised you with finicky behavior. They never made me grin the way my TL does. But the globebox fit well and the interior never complained as you bounced down the road. And still they were never known as quality products.
I think our expectations of new cars may be forcibly changing. I know I never expected to notice rattles in a Lexus or Acura. But also, I know I never expected to drive a car that 'listens' to me, accelerates with turbine like smoothness, gets reasonable economy while making tree huggers rejoice aall while cutting my insurance premium in half with expectations of saving my ass after I drive off a bridge because I was trying to isolate and interior buzz!
Ride on!
Be aware the Accord and TL com from the same assembly plant in Ohio. I began to wonder if my personal criticisms of the TLs interior assembly were valid when I carefully compared the Accord to the TL. I did find the materials better in the TL. Features and technology are very apparent differences, but I looked at details like door window surrounds, trim pieces, leather texture variances and seam alignment.
Generally, I found the TL better. But not all areas. One of my pet peeves is the TL glovebox gap. The same glovebox door is used on the Accord, which fit tight. Yet nearly every TL I see has a gap or misaligned glove box. Go figure.
I also found the TL had extra trim pieces around the door windows (interior). This may be aestically a nicer finish, and perhaps also a better seal for wind noise? Good idea...but why the heck are they so creaky? So I see many good ideas in the TL over the Accord, but have some reservations about Acuras assembly / execution. Bottom line, I find them minor to the superlatives the car offers me in other areas. Still, I wonder why Acura would not better address seemingly minor and manageable details which have such a huge impact on the percerption of the car's quality.
That all said, we have 2 new Toyota products in our family corral. An 06 Avalon LTD and an 06 GS300. I admit I am a fan of Toyota / Lexus and give them a nod on at least interior assembly over Honda. They just don't drive the way Hondas do but do many things well. BOTH the GS and Avalon have interior rattles, buzzes and tics. Both cars ommit noises that are much more audible than my TL's. I will still give the Yotas the trophy on materials and interior fit, but I would now say my TL (the oldest of the 3) is less irritating with 'tolerable' interior moans and groans. Being the TL is a tighter ride, I am also more forgiving of interior sounds.
I really believe the era of quality has waned for an era of entusiastic technology in automobile products. I think companies like Toyota / Lexus, Honda / Acura and even German premium brands are riding on past reputations of higher quality. Although I acknowledge the technology offered in today's cars is impressive (do I really need the GPS to adjust my interor A/C settings???), I would rather it be built well over throwing more feature content in the package. I do, at least acknowledge Honda for it's underappreciated focus on ULEV engines (with still impressive performance and economy) and high safety ratings across its product line up. Similarly, Toyota for Hybrid technology.
I worry that these quality touted brands will shoot themselves in the foot by not maintaining the quality factor which tends to have the most gravity of their brand recognition. Companies like Jaguar & Range Rover have taken it on the chin for being high end products you just could not rely on. They are making strides, but what has it cost them in the long run? My personal take is that this is where Mercedes, and to some extent BMW, are now venturing.
My Isuzu SUVs were never touted as leading edge, sohisticated or high style rides. But the were consistent in assembly, wore like iron and never surprised you with finicky behavior. They never made me grin the way my TL does. But the globebox fit well and the interior never complained as you bounced down the road. And still they were never known as quality products.
I think our expectations of new cars may be forcibly changing. I know I never expected to notice rattles in a Lexus or Acura. But also, I know I never expected to drive a car that 'listens' to me, accelerates with turbine like smoothness, gets reasonable economy while making tree huggers rejoice aall while cutting my insurance premium in half with expectations of saving my ass after I drive off a bridge because I was trying to isolate and interior buzz!
Ride on!
Another well written post! You hit on some really good points there, I hope companies like Honda/Acura realize their quality is falling and do something about it, or they could be embarassed by the competition.
BTW, are you a writer of some sort?
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11-18-2005, 08:46 AM
#8
Aaaarrrggghhhh!
BrettG - This is not a knock, but a question: Why do your posts always have so many carriage returns in them? It takes up a lot more room with each post.
11-18-2005, 09:01 AM
#9
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mlody - good luck with the new car! My dad used to have an Accord, and it never had any problems. I personally prefer the styling of the TL to the Accord, so the Accord wasn't an option for me, but it is still a great car...had Honda not f'ed up the design years ago, I probably would've gotten one. Once you've had some time to soak it in, come back and let us know your thoughts.
Mike - yes, another well-written post, but seriously, I think you a little too much time on your hands...no Bingo last night?
Scribesoft - he does get points for not having one gigantic paragraph with no punctuation in it.
Mike - yes, another well-written post, but seriously, I think you a little too much time on your hands...no Bingo last night?
Scribesoft - he does get points for not having one gigantic paragraph with no punctuation in it.
11-18-2005, 09:12 AM
#10
Originally Posted by chill_dog
Mike - yes, another well-written post, but seriously, I think you a little too much time on your hands...no Bingo last night?
11-18-2005, 09:18 AM
#11
Suzuka Master
This is to any of you that have owned / driven both 05 or 06 Accords and TLs is the TL notably quieter internally in town and on the highway? Eg wind and road noise?
I have had occasion to drive a TL thats a last generation and also test drove a couple Accords and neither were really that quiet on the highway.
The reason I ask is I am looking to go to a TL shortly and am collecting information and one thing I do enjoy ( amoungst many things ) with the GLX Passat is how quiet it is on the highway be it on the stock 16's or the performance 18's.
I have had occasion to drive a TL thats a last generation and also test drove a couple Accords and neither were really that quiet on the highway.
The reason I ask is I am looking to go to a TL shortly and am collecting information and one thing I do enjoy ( amoungst many things ) with the GLX Passat is how quiet it is on the highway be it on the stock 16's or the performance 18's.
11-18-2005, 09:19 AM
#12
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05TL and 05 Accord
I'm in the middle of an issue with my 05 TL drone noise and lock up vibration from 40 to 60 MPH. It's a known issue with ACS and will be filing under NYs lemon law in the near future. Love the TL but can't stand the vibes. My wifes 05 Accord while not the classy looks of MY TL is a pleasure to drive and well built. I think I'm going back to Toyota after I settle the Acura. My 03 TL was good but I see the handwriting on the wall with the latest model and workmanship. 
11-18-2005, 09:22 AM
#14
Originally Posted by pvansh
BTW, are you a writer of some sort?
Thanks for the compliment, I often wonder if my 'editorials' are too winded if not illegible.
11-18-2005, 09:24 AM
#15
Carrage returns?
I dont know, I fit the text into the box that comes up....
Cars are really getting complex, that is for sure! While some high tech stuff has really paid off, like abs, fuel injection, 6 speed auto transmissions, other things worry me, like the new steer by wire systems.
With SO much stuff in cars now, something is bound to go wrong, there is just no way to pack a car with so many gizmo's made at low cost and have it all work
flawlessly for years and years.
If you take a look at cars that were made in the 60's, and compare them to modern cars, its quite shocking.
I like some modern things, the self dimming rear view mirrors are great, memory seats, auto headlights, dual zone climate control, power windows and door locks,
and other things, but dont really see the need for self leveling suspension,
drive by wire throttle and steering, moving headlights, even HID headlights, they cost way more than a bulb, cant they make bright bulbs? Dual zone climate control is nice, but it does not need to be automatic, its not to hard to just turn a knob. With all those motorized flaps and so on, something is bound to go wrong over time. ABS and stability control I question, maybe its good at times, but bad at other times, and certantly is adding a lot of complexity.
People are expecting to be able to do whatever when driving a car, and the car
will correct for any stupid mistakes they might make. Soon they wont know what
to do if that stuff does not work.
I dont understand the need for a gps input for the climate control system, that seems over the top.
I did not get the nav system on my TL, I have no need of it, nor the voice commands, or the bluetooth. They are just trendy toys if you ask me.
What is next? You get into your new TL and just tell it where you want to go?
With gps and adaptive cruise control, steer and throttle by wire, auto headlights, auto climate control, auto windshield wipers, auto transmissions, we are not far away.
Brett
I dont know, I fit the text into the box that comes up....
Cars are really getting complex, that is for sure! While some high tech stuff has really paid off, like abs, fuel injection, 6 speed auto transmissions, other things worry me, like the new steer by wire systems.
With SO much stuff in cars now, something is bound to go wrong, there is just no way to pack a car with so many gizmo's made at low cost and have it all work
flawlessly for years and years.
If you take a look at cars that were made in the 60's, and compare them to modern cars, its quite shocking.
I like some modern things, the self dimming rear view mirrors are great, memory seats, auto headlights, dual zone climate control, power windows and door locks,
and other things, but dont really see the need for self leveling suspension,
drive by wire throttle and steering, moving headlights, even HID headlights, they cost way more than a bulb, cant they make bright bulbs? Dual zone climate control is nice, but it does not need to be automatic, its not to hard to just turn a knob. With all those motorized flaps and so on, something is bound to go wrong over time. ABS and stability control I question, maybe its good at times, but bad at other times, and certantly is adding a lot of complexity.
People are expecting to be able to do whatever when driving a car, and the car
will correct for any stupid mistakes they might make. Soon they wont know what
to do if that stuff does not work.
I dont understand the need for a gps input for the climate control system, that seems over the top.
I did not get the nav system on my TL, I have no need of it, nor the voice commands, or the bluetooth. They are just trendy toys if you ask me.
What is next? You get into your new TL and just tell it where you want to go?
With gps and adaptive cruise control, steer and throttle by wire, auto headlights, auto climate control, auto windshield wipers, auto transmissions, we are not far away.
Brett
11-18-2005, 09:25 AM
#16
That about sums it up... The 01 CL type S was the model year (for the 260HP and 5 AT) as well and it had problems. The 04 TL was the 3G model year and it too has many issues. But the person has some faith anyway and is staying with the brand.
The enthusiastic element is what acura and other car makers seem to be focusing more on lately. They built their reputation on qaulity and it is too bad they cannot get it right the first time. Having owned 13 new cars (so far) in my lifetime, Acura managed to impress from performance and features for the price, but required more repair work and on major/minor issues.
Lexus had always been on top... yes they might not inspire a sense of performance in some more affordable models, but they give you cookies when you go for service rather than you having to bring them in to hopefully get better service.
The enthusiastic element is what acura and other car makers seem to be focusing more on lately. They built their reputation on qaulity and it is too bad they cannot get it right the first time. Having owned 13 new cars (so far) in my lifetime, Acura managed to impress from performance and features for the price, but required more repair work and on major/minor issues.
Lexus had always been on top... yes they might not inspire a sense of performance in some more affordable models, but they give you cookies when you go for service rather than you having to bring them in to hopefully get better service.
11-18-2005, 09:41 AM
#17
Originally Posted by Jesstzn
This is to any of you that have owned / driven both 05 or 06 Accords and TLs is the TL notably quieter internally in town and on the highway? Eg wind and road noise?
I have had occasion to drive a TL thats a last generation and also test drove a couple Accords and neither were really that quiet on the highway.
The reason I ask is I am looking to go to a TL shortly and am collecting information and one thing I do enjoy ( amoungst many things ) with the GLX Passat is how quiet it is on the highway be it on the stock 16's or the performance 18's.
I have had occasion to drive a TL thats a last generation and also test drove a couple Accords and neither were really that quiet on the highway.
The reason I ask is I am looking to go to a TL shortly and am collecting information and one thing I do enjoy ( amoungst many things ) with the GLX Passat is how quiet it is on the highway be it on the stock 16's or the performance 18's.
It is very difficult to finitely compare all Accord vs. the TL (though seemingly the same or very similar cars). The Accord comes in more 'flavors' of engines and tires. But I will try to generalize.
I find the TL is quieter in most all situations. On a smooth asphalt road, the TL is eerily silent. However, put the TL on a washboard road or grainy surfaced roads (like we have here in FL), I can say there are situations where the TL can be louder. My guess is due to the wider, lower profile tires on the TL and tighter suspension that transmits more into the cabin, especially tire noise. Also, tire noise tends to change, usually increasing as tires wear.
Wind noise is another interesting situation. I think the TL may appear to have more wind noise but due to less ambient cabin noise. Meaning: The TLs sound insulation makes it possible to better hear wind roar as general road noise is dampend? Just my guess. This same dampening of road noise is my reasoning as to why we tend to here more interior noises.
My associate thinks I am a total whack job. I will ask him to drive a road in his Accord that I regularly ride in my TL. I will listen to certain areas of the car to try and compare sounds. Then I will get frustrated and ask If I can drive his Accord, as maybe the sounds are heard differently when driving in the driver's seat.
Shoot me.....please.
11-18-2005, 09:44 AM
#18
Fightin' Texas Aggie
I agree with all who have pointed out that with all the new technology and electronics in newer cars things are bound to go out eventually. The days of owning a car for 10 years and having no major problems are probably over. I accepted that when I bought the TL. My '97 Accord has had no major problems since I've owned it and it will probably last for many more years but it has no real features at all. It doesn't even have a key fob.
11-18-2005, 10:18 AM
#19
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I had two 3g tl loaners over the past 2 weeks while my 03 tls was in the shop. One had navi with 8k miles, one non-navi with 12k miles. After driving both those 05's, I wouldn't buy a 3g tl. Sorry, they both had the same rattle in the sun roof, same subwoofer rattle, same crappy handling (albiet you could get better tires, but why buy a brand new car and then buy 4 tires next day?). One had a rattle behind the steering wheel that was very loud.
After reading consumer review that had 19 of the top 25 most reliable vehicles coming from toyota lexus, lexus will be my next car. If camry would do something styling and power wise, I would consider it as well, but it's still crappy looking.
As far as styling and cool factor, nothing beats an 3g tl, but it's not enough. Tl has better interior then an accord. After 4 years Acura still needs to sove the tranny problem too.
Just my opinion.
After reading consumer review that had 19 of the top 25 most reliable vehicles coming from toyota lexus, lexus will be my next car. If camry would do something styling and power wise, I would consider it as well, but it's still crappy looking.
As far as styling and cool factor, nothing beats an 3g tl, but it's not enough. Tl has better interior then an accord. After 4 years Acura still needs to sove the tranny problem too.
Just my opinion.
11-18-2005, 10:39 AM
#20
Racer
Originally Posted by TampaMike
Be aware the Accord and TL com from the same assembly plant in Ohio.
11-18-2005, 10:47 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by mlody
Only had the 04 TL 6MT for a short time, but it was long enough time to piss me off completely. .
Please post pictures of your accord
11-18-2005, 10:52 AM
#22
tTLiang
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i am telling ya. i own both TL and accord right now. My TL is way batter than my accord. don't get me wrong. accord is still a good car. rattles drive me nuts tho. u can pull the entire headliner down with 2 fingers. buzz here and there i can't even find. i usually find rattles and cure them pretty quickly. read this https://acurazine.com/forums/car-parts-sale-361/%2A%2Amsd-window-switch%2A%2A-126626/
to see.
my friend and family is pretty much divided into either toyota or honda group. let me tell u, my sister's Lexus GS rattles (she don't even hear them. sensitivity issue) more than the accord i have right now. my 92 accord was very quiet. my friend had a lemon camary that just died. on and on... for both sides and i have pretty big sample group. if you toss in all my MB and BMW neighbors and friends, we don't have all day. find a car u like and "hope" u get a good one. do as much test drive on "the car" you actually want to buy not just some demo cars.
i heard BMW sucks
i heard MB is crap
i heard "i'll never buy another toyota again"
i heard Honda is no good no more
i heard Acura bad quality
i heard Infiniti cheap and rattles
i heard "my Lexus GS is a clunker"
what's the truth really? just deal with your situation for the best outcome. hoping nobody would buy BMW/MB/Acura/Honda/Toyota/Lexus again will not solve ur problem at hand. Chances are u will get a bad one or two in ur life time. Good luck.
to see.
my friend and family is pretty much divided into either toyota or honda group. let me tell u, my sister's Lexus GS rattles (she don't even hear them. sensitivity issue) more than the accord i have right now. my 92 accord was very quiet. my friend had a lemon camary that just died. on and on... for both sides and i have pretty big sample group. if you toss in all my MB and BMW neighbors and friends, we don't have all day. find a car u like and "hope" u get a good one. do as much test drive on "the car" you actually want to buy not just some demo cars.
i heard BMW sucks
i heard MB is crap
i heard "i'll never buy another toyota again"
i heard Honda is no good no more
i heard Acura bad quality
i heard Infiniti cheap and rattles
i heard "my Lexus GS is a clunker"
what's the truth really? just deal with your situation for the best outcome. hoping nobody would buy BMW/MB/Acura/Honda/Toyota/Lexus again will not solve ur problem at hand. Chances are u will get a bad one or two in ur life time. Good luck.
11-18-2005, 11:27 AM
#23
Originally Posted by AMIC
I agree with all who have pointed out that with all the new technology and electronics in newer cars things are bound to go out eventually. The days of owning a car for 10 years and having no major problems are probably over. I accepted that when I bought the TL. My '97 Accord has had no major problems since I've owned it and it will probably last for many more years but it has no real features at all. It doesn't even have a key fob.
Not faulting you for the no features comment, but if I had to turn a key to open and start the car each time, I have no issue with that. We all managed to get by with a decent radio and climate control even if we did have to adjust the fan speed. Sure navi is very useful for some but you can get a portable unit for about 500 bucks...
Adaptive cruise control, and many other features are just something we need or just something that goes with the saying he who drives the car with the most toys win.
My concern is they have to deliver the car for a price. And that's where it gets tricky since cutting costs is a big deal in many industries. Most car models have several trim levels but acura takes all the guess work out of that. Sure there are some some economies of scale benefits to realize and some marketing benefits as well. But in the end there is much more to keep up with maintenance wise. There is where the big bucks are. You know I hate being reminded of what I should do to the car.
Hell BMWs notify the service department for you so they in turn can call you to tell you your car needs an oil change. Great perk? Or, more people saying you got to have it and BMW get to keep more of your $$$..
11-18-2005, 11:34 AM
#24
Oderint dum metuant.
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Originally Posted by mickey3c
Hell BMWs notify the service department for you so they in turn can call you to tell you your car needs an oil change. Great perk? Or, more people saying you got to have it and BMW get to keep more of your $$$..
11-18-2005, 11:50 AM
#25
Originally Posted by Hybrid
While all TL's seem to be built in Ohio, you can still get an Accord assembled in Japan. That's the hybrid model. People say it's not worth the ~$3K cost premium over the regular EXV6 Accord due to gas savings alone, but if you believe that assembly in Japan could mean better quality (maybe fewer left out fasteners, more careful assembly, attention to detail? Maybe even some paint job differences?), some of that premium may be worth it outside of gas savings reasons.
BTW, we just came back from lunch in the Hybrid and I couldn't help notice the window trim around the passenger door window was creaking.
I should just drink at lunch and be done with it!
11-18-2005, 11:52 AM
#26
05 C230K & 09 135i 6MT
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I've driven an 05 TL for 2 weeks and I have an 05 Accord EX-V6 coupe. To me, my Accord feels every bit as capable and well put together as the TL. The engine and transmission are just as smooth and don't tell anyone but the Accord is just as quick as the 5AT TL. The Accord feels lighter and more tossable than the TL.
I'd say the weakest link of my Accord is the Bridgestone EL41s - those bitches do everything BUT grip.
I'd say the weakest link of my Accord is the Bridgestone EL41s - those bitches do everything BUT grip.
11-18-2005, 12:51 PM
#27
Cruisin'
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I bought my 04 TL on 6/6/04....I have 8,000 miles on it and have had no problems with rattles etc. Sorry about your problems.....don't understand why a livid TL owner would get rid of his car and buy an Accord that is made on the same assembly line. This doesn't make any sense whatsoever!
Good luck with your new Honda product....which I am proud to say the quality of my car is excellent, best looking car in its class and not to mention the best value in its class!!!
Good luck with your new Honda product....which I am proud to say the quality of my car is excellent, best looking car in its class and not to mention the best value in its class!!!
11-18-2005, 01:27 PM
#28
Police
Originally Posted by KilroyR1
If your Acura was so bad, why did you stick with a Honda product? If I were pissed at my Acura, I would get another brand of car.
11-18-2005, 04:34 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by chill_dog
Scribesoft - he does get points for not having one gigantic paragraph with no punctuation in it.
Chill_dog....thats gotta be me your talking about there!(lol)
11-18-2005, 04:37 PM
#33
"Joe Cool"
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Originally Posted by TONYJO
I bought my 04 TL on 6/6/04....I have 8,000 miles on it and have had no problems with rattles etc. Good luck with your new Honda product....which I am proud to say the quality of my car is excellent, best looking car in its class and not to mention the best value in its class!!!
Sorry about your problems..... but I have friends that have the HONDA Accord and I myself had a EX.
To me the ACCORD is like the less Athelic, not quite as good looking cousin of the TL.
But to each's own...
I have an 04 with over 14K and I'd invite any of you to ride in it.
Not one rattle, squeek, or annoying sound.
Other than the crappy tires that I need to replace, this car is flawless.
I guess a certain % are bound to be bad, glad I didn't get one of them.
BTW...Scribe.. that Yoda one rocked...
11-18-2005, 05:37 PM
#34
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I guess I was not that much lucky with my TL. As much as I would love to keep this car (it was a keeper), annoyances were killing the pleasure of driving it.
I stayed with the Honda for one reasons – I love it, and I like the cars they make. The Accord is not any worse than TL in my book as far as quality (well it is dead quiet and nice inside) and I actually prefer Accord’s white gauges than blue in TL. I have not torn the cars apart as some did so my comparison is purely based on what I see and feel (99.9% people will make comparison on those two factors as well)
Perhaps on the outside the TL is more appealing (well it is even to me) but inside, the difference in negligible if any besides very few details that are not too apparent at the first glance!
I actually still drive MT car, this time it is only 5MT that is why I will miss a silky smooth 6MT (can’t stand automatics), so I you can tell I have i4 not v6 engine which is fine with me (never needed v6 power and will not miss it). With the crappy tires and torque steer, the car was not fun to drive with full throttle anyway (6MT guys know what I am talking about), unless a race track or a perfectly smooth road (have not seen these yet anywhere in Chicago)
I also agree that there are some nice touches on TL that do not exist on Accord, but come on – no real sun glass holder, doors (which are nice) when windows rolled down sound like they were to fall apart and the glass would shatter inside, useless back seat pockets beside some small magazines, glove box that looks like on a domestic car and can’t even hold an original manual leather binder because the binder is to big, key fob that if I am not wrong Civic has better (Accord for sure), useless Brembo disks (only front) that are not any better than regular – only cost 3x more and dust like crazy, rear trunk which is a joke when it comes to size (accord coupe has more trunk space plus folding back seats for even more room), automatic climate control that constantly needs adjustment and many more.
I am sorry for my rants, but this is a reality – just because something is more expensive does not automatically mean it is better. Perhaps one day I will get TL if AWD and 6MT will be the options, or RWD.
I stayed with the Honda for one reasons – I love it, and I like the cars they make. The Accord is not any worse than TL in my book as far as quality (well it is dead quiet and nice inside) and I actually prefer Accord’s white gauges than blue in TL. I have not torn the cars apart as some did so my comparison is purely based on what I see and feel (99.9% people will make comparison on those two factors as well)
Perhaps on the outside the TL is more appealing (well it is even to me) but inside, the difference in negligible if any besides very few details that are not too apparent at the first glance!
I actually still drive MT car, this time it is only 5MT that is why I will miss a silky smooth 6MT (can’t stand automatics), so I you can tell I have i4 not v6 engine which is fine with me (never needed v6 power and will not miss it). With the crappy tires and torque steer, the car was not fun to drive with full throttle anyway (6MT guys know what I am talking about), unless a race track or a perfectly smooth road (have not seen these yet anywhere in Chicago)
I also agree that there are some nice touches on TL that do not exist on Accord, but come on – no real sun glass holder, doors (which are nice) when windows rolled down sound like they were to fall apart and the glass would shatter inside, useless back seat pockets beside some small magazines, glove box that looks like on a domestic car and can’t even hold an original manual leather binder because the binder is to big, key fob that if I am not wrong Civic has better (Accord for sure), useless Brembo disks (only front) that are not any better than regular – only cost 3x more and dust like crazy, rear trunk which is a joke when it comes to size (accord coupe has more trunk space plus folding back seats for even more room), automatic climate control that constantly needs adjustment and many more.
I am sorry for my rants, but this is a reality – just because something is more expensive does not automatically mean it is better. Perhaps one day I will get TL if AWD and 6MT will be the options, or RWD.
11-18-2005, 06:05 PM
#35
WDP Director of R & D
Originally Posted by 03CoupeV6
I'd say the weakest link of my Accord is the Bridgestone EL41s - those bitches do everything BUT grip.
"EL-41's"??
Is that one step below the TL's "EL-42's"??
They must really stink.....
:-)
11-18-2005, 07:13 PM
#36
tTLiang
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Originally Posted by mlody
useless Brembo disks (only front) that are not any better than regular – .
11-18-2005, 07:17 PM
#37
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by KJSmitty
"EL-41's"??
Is that one step below the TL's "EL-42's"??
They must really stink.....
:-)
Is that one step below the TL's "EL-42's"??
They must really stink.....
:-)
Check this out
EL41 - Accord
EL42 - TL
11-18-2005, 07:32 PM
#38
WDP Director of R & D
Originally Posted by mlody
You might think, but it is the other way around. Accord gets better tires than TL. EL 41 are 1or 2 notches above EL42
Check this out
EL41 - Accord
EL42 - TL
Check this out
EL41 - Accord
EL42 - TL
The 41's are also labeled with the same speed rating but also a "T", identifying a "family sedan" category.
My gut tells me they are identical just badged as such for OEM application....
Interesting though.
Cheers
11-18-2005, 07:32 PM
#39
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by ttliang
disagree. huge difference. switched back and forth yesterday. almost rear-end another car cuz regular are so weak compare to brembo. u must not have been breaking hard and late. no disrespect. didn't sound like you drive hard at all. it's not a nok, buick with a big trunk i think is ur car. anyhoo, i think (again, i own one) the floaty accord will be perfect for u if it don't buzz. good luck and be happy.
I do not break hard and late - I do not consider this to be safe especially at high speed and with cars around me.
Everyone will tell you that Brembo are good if you do high performance racing and repeated breaking (maybe like you do) – for normal day to day driving they are actually not any better than regular breaks !!!
There is a C&D article that proofs this as well
6mt stops in ~ 140 feet
5at stops in ~ 128 feet
Like I said – I drove my friends TL 04 5AT and breaks difference is non existent. Probably by switching the tires, I would notice more difference in breaking than 5AT vs. 6MT breaks itself.
BTW do some search on this forums and you will find it out yourself.
Thanks for your input.
11-18-2005, 07:42 PM
#40
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by KJSmitty
Reading the description of the two tires leads me to believe the EL-41's are near identical to the 42's with a smidgen less in the performance catagory.... (Not that I am bragging about the 42's by any meens...)
The 41's are also labeled with the same speed rating but also a "T", identifying a "family sedan" category.
My gut tells me they are identical just badged as such for OEM application....
Interesting though.
Cheers
The 41's are also labeled with the same speed rating but also a "T", identifying a "family sedan" category.
My gut tells me they are identical just badged as such for OEM application....
Interesting though.
Cheers
survey
we all know that neither tires are good but EL41 are much better than EL42 at least based on the reviews and opinions