nist7

This is the beginning of a thread/effort/discussion on a debate and possibility of building a better exhaust for the 3G TL platform after some interesting posts that challenged the commonly held/agreed-upon opinion that the OG RV6 True Dual exhaust is/was the best for this platform. I am all about challenging the status quo and building something that's better if it can be done. And it looks like the RV6 true duals are not likely to be remade anyway....(https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g...16707830).even with what appears to be a quite a bit stronger demand than expected with almost 60 people signing up with interest but seems like manufacturing is going to be an issue given even 60 is probably very low demand to make a batch again....so here's another solution that was discussed in that thread:

Here's a custom exhaust for reference that was posted in the other thread:


The owner/creator of this is one of our very own fellow AZine memeber: @Euro-R_Spec_TSX

Referencing his post: https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-p.../#post16707158
Could we crowd-fund a small batch run of that? I am 100% in depending on price of course.

I am now going to spam tag a bunch of some of the more regular posters in the two exhaust threads to get some more attention to this: @Dr. Honda @sockr1 @Yvuru @thoiboi @rockstar143 @wusty23jd @truonghthe @jeffstlnote @Slpr04UA6 @Acura TL Builder @justnspace @losiglow @EvilVirus @Scottwax @DMZ @1black_seven

All opinions, comments, debates, welcome. I myself was fortunate enough to buy a TL last year with the RV6 true dual already on there and thought it was the king of the exhausts for the 3G TL (still some drone of course....) but it looks like you can have a great sounding exhaust without the drone and makes good power.

Thoughts? When do we start the group buy?

Acura TL Builder

I am very for this sound. But the material and build quality must be great.

What are the details for the amount of flow and dimensions it will have? Will it be a single/dual? Resonated option? Which resonator?

Thank you

Yvuru

i am down for a type s style quad tip setup, and reasonably priced (not 2k). i've hit add to cart on the atlp exhaust a few times :wink:

edit: i love the xlr8 sound and think its the best, but the dang muffler keeps giving me problems. had to replace it a few times

the sound in this video says it all

awoc

The xlr8 is raspy up top and sounds like a 5 cylinder in the mid range. Not as smooth and rich sounding as the TSX above. There is no engineering behind that product. Just big pipes and mufflers. There's more to am exhaust than that. Tuning the exhaust pressure waves and pulses takes time and knowledge. When I see exhausts thrown together like the xlr8 it makes me pucker, but hey to each their own.

I have an 08 TL-S. If euro_spec_TSX decides to build a small batch, sign me up right away! Did anyone reach out to him for a group buy?

Slpr04UA6

Depending on price and base option as well, I could be interested. I do like the sound of that TSX a lot, and from what I’ve read on drone with some of the only options we have now, I’m not spending that much when my car is not worth what I think it’s worth. Lol!

It would be nice if euro could show us some of the exhaust, and pointers on what makes it sound soo good. I’m not asking him to divulge everything, as I’m sure he spent some time and money developing what he has.


Thnks Nist7 for thinking of me!

awoc

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nist7

I made this thread as a very public notice/inquiry to @Euro-R_Spec_TSX on the possibility/feasibility of running a batch of them if we get enough real interest here. The RV6 revival seems to be fairly dead in the water and if there's a possibility of a custom run of these ones.....certainly this thread can be turned into a group buy/interest thread.

Dr. Honda

For those asking about price...this will most likely be a very high end system for the few who have very discerning taste. I would not be surprised if this is more expensive than the RV6 TD. It won't be for everyone, unfortunately.

If you want the best exhaust setup, bar none, this would be for you.

I don't want to promise anything but it will probably be something similar to his TSX except tweaked for the TL. So 3'' at the collector, 304 SS, all quality connections/flanges, resonated, dual exhaust. Most likely quad tip as that's where the most demand is. An appropriate J-pipe will also most likely be needed. People who want a base setup will probably have to accommodate.

I would be interested in one as well.

nist7

My wallet is ready.

wusty23jd

Well, this thread is definitely encouraging, but we have to remember to respectful and patient of Euro-R_Spec_TSX. His TSX J-pipe and cat-back exhaust were both developed organically over the span of 4+ YEARS with continual changes and improvements. It didn't happen over night and he may even be tweaking them further. Discussing deposits for a production run might seem a little premature at this stage.

We tend to live in a culture of instant gratification, where we want answers and products within the week. Let's give him some time to absorb all of this and ultimately make the decision for himself on if he wants to pursue an exhaust offering for the 3g TLs. If so, I'd obviously be interested and would definitely be willing to make the purchase In fact, this small glimmer of hope is enough to keep me from buying ANY aftermarket exhaust right now.

And if he doesn't want to pursue this, then we need to respect that and simply enjoy those videos for the new perspectives that they're creating. Who knows what will come of this? Regardless, it's still exciting!

In the meantime...

Acura TL Builder

Well in the RV6 exhaust thread @Euro-R_Spec_TSX already mentioned hes considering it.

jeffstlnote

This is getting comical..

Acura TL Builder

Two men with extensive exhaust engineering knowledge either dont like money or are scared of work.

Is this the future? A massive list of many serious buyers with their wallets out and the people with the ability to earn their money(and hearts) turn away from thier computers after reading this and continue watching television.

nist7

Almost 60 people expressed interest in putting down basically $2k for a good sounding exhaust.....unless this custom one is significantly more expensive....there should be lot of interest I hope...and maybe that will generate serious thought on the production/seller side

Acura TL Builder

We haven’t heard confirmation from either RV6 or EuroR. We could have 100 people saying “Take my money!”, though unless someone wants to be the TL exhaust savior, it wouldn’t matter.

wusty23jd

I don’t think it’s fair to oversimplify the process. It’s not always about the desire for money or lack of ambition. I’m a CPA and know how to prepare complicated tax returns for taxpayers that work overseas. Just because I know how and can do it myself, doesn’t mean I have the means to instantly start providing tax services for 100+ clients.

Maybe before he commits to anything, he has to see what reputable shops are available to assist with such an undertaking? Lol, let’s give this some time.

Dr. Honda

wut?

Rich confirmed it isn't happening in the near future.

EuroR - THE LEGENDARY FORUM USER, probably needs a bit of time to come up with a plan on how he wants to approach this (if he even wants to). I would give him time to think it over, he's not going to ghost everyone.

Euro-R_Spec_TSX

What is drone and what causes it? Drone is the natural resonance of the exhaust tube.

The resonant frequency of a tube of air is related to the length of the tube, its shape, the air temperature, and whether it has closed or open ends. See “Acoustic Resonance” on Wikipedia for additional detail.

Most exhaust systems of front engine vehicles exhibit drone around 100Hz. The exact frequency is primarily dependent on the length. Rear/mid-engine vehicles will exhibit a higher frequency of system resonance due to the shorter overall exhaust tube length.

System resonance is the primary focus of engineering design efforts at vehicle OEMs. It is the most objectionable sound characteristic of the exhaust. Reducing the system resonance is also a challenging design problem due to the magnitude and frequency.

Typical aftermarket mufflers and resonators are constructed of an outer tube, an inner tube that is perforated and some type of fiberglass based packing material. In audio terms, this type of muffler/resonator acts like a low-pass filter. It is less effective at attenuating low frequencies and more effective at attenuating high frequencies. If the muffler volume is large enough, then a sufficient amount of low frequency attenuation may be able to be attained, but it then becomes a packaging and cost problem. It also substantially attenuates high frequencies. For an enthusiast, this is not preferred because it won’t be lively or racy sounding.

Vehicle OEMs typically use muffler designs that lack fiberglass packing material. Instead, they use techniques that result in phase-cancelation of low frequencies and other problematic frequencies of the application. There are a number of different acoustical methods that can (and are) applied to muffler design. For the sake of brevity, I’ll only discuss the Helmholtz resonator as it’s becoming more popular among aftermarket exhaust system manufacturers. Check out some Dinan exhaust systems for European vehicles and, more recently EVS Tuning.

A Helmholtz resonator will resonate at a specific frequency based on the design parameters. In other words, it’s tuned for the application. When used within an exhaust system, it will phase-cancel at the tuned frequency. If designed properly, a Helmholtz resonator is very effective at reducing exhaust system resonance. In audio terms, this is like a notch filter.

So, why don’t more aftermarket manufacturers use Helmholtz resonators? They are challenging to implement. Simple extrapolation of textbook theories doesn’t transfer over to exhaust system application. Quite a bit of experimentation and testing is involved. And someone knowledgeable about acoustics needs to do the work.

So, what did we learn so far? Typical fiberglass packed mufflers/resonators act like low-pass filters and Helmholtz resonators act like notch filters. As enthusiasts, we want a lively sounding exhaust system with zero drone. That means we want minimal low-pass filters, so as to maintain the liveliness of the exhaust, and a big-ass notch filter to completely wipe out the system resonance.

Euro-R_Spec_TSX

Here is the basic design/layout of my TSX exhaust system. The resonator is a typical design with packing material and the mufflers
are a proprietary design employing a Helmholtz resonator. There is a bit more to the design which I won't divulge, but it results in
substantial attenuation of system resonance (and most the low frequency content) and also a small bump in higher frequencies
that gives it a noticeable exotic sports car like howl. At idle and light throttle, it's very mild, but when you open it up, it's ferocious.
The videos don't capture the slightly out-of-phase characteristic of each exhaust outlet, which from inside the car, makes it seem
like it has more cylinders.

Acura TL Builder

Hook us up Brother!

wusty23jd

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

and after all that explanation...the biggest mind blow is that after spending all that R&D and time on getting the design right you're not even guaranteed for it to sound GOOD at all ranges of the powerband and make power.

So it's not shocking that after all that hard work and research a person might not be super inclined to put something together for a handful of enthusiasts, most of which won't put their money where their mouth is...(of the 60 on the list, I predict 25 actually having the means and desire to actually buy).

I'm not even talking about a person hand jigging and welding themselves...that's got to be a labor of love...so then the next thing would be outsource somewhere cheap enough to make a profit...aka China...then have to deal with all the complaints, fitment issues, failures etc...for a nominal profit. Hard pass.

Hats off to those that do or even try to keep the small enthusiast driven businesses afloat and the enthusiasts satiated.
You guys are the salt of the earth.

Locustjones

Is there a place for funding the RD to produce a working and thought out prototype and then selling the spec/shop drawings out? From there we're on our own, each with a local custom shop. Everyone would be a test run. It would become open source effectively in some ways, so the cost would have to be diluted by enough 'patrons' chipping in early - I'd pay $100 to get a set of specs that at least get me on paper before going to a custom shop about a custom exhaust and starting from scratch. Maybe proof of contributing to the effort is reacquired to be allowed to buy a proprietary piece (the hasenpfeffer muffler).

I don't know how tight the tolerances of exhaust systems are and if there can be much variation in a local shop following a set of shop drawings would allow so my idea for spec's may be bunk from the start.

Dr. Honda

Everyone waiting on exhaust system design 103...

Acura TL Builder

^ Gotta be Uncle 'Jofo reincarnate. Welcome back buddy, ive missed you

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Maj wouldn't spend his time outside of ramblings.

Acura TL Builder

I figured he was using his other accounts to make timely posts about “Seattle area” car sales outside of Marketplace at opportune moments. :P

Maybe if you get more posts than him, he’ll be back

FancyHonda

phyyr

whatever happened to erpm exhausts? i've been wanting their v3-r jpipe and catback since i got my 3g.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Acura TL Builder

Was that around July 2020?

o4Komodo

iTrader: (2)

I have an exhaust design in mind (inspired by some found on from the Volvo community)... might build it and see how it does compared to my ATLP v1 once I install my CT S/C.

Finding nice exhaust tips is the tough part. might just reuse the ATLPs tip/mufflers.

Acura TL Builder

Hook me up with a set of this rear brake Komodo!

Dr. Honda

Dr. Honda

***UPDATE***

I traveled all the way out to Michigan and visited THE LEGENDARY FORUM USER - EUROR. I got to cruise around in the TSX and hear the exhaust in its current configuration.

I have some absolutely terrible news....

The exhaust sounds SO much better than everything else (that's me being conservative) that you'll probably end up selling a few vital organs or something to get this thing when it's available.

Prepare yourselves - THE HYPE IS REAL

And for all the people rolling their eyes (I know you're doing it right now), make a trip out to Michigan. If you're really nice, maybe...just maybe...you can hear it first hand too.

Acura TL Builder

Organs, so you saying it the price will be inflated?

Marsalis Simms

This does sound very good. Question is how many people would be required to actually get this going; after the RV6 thread I've lost a bit of faith lol I've yet to hear ANY aftermarket 3G exhaust in person, as I know no one that has a TL-S with exhaust work done lol

Euro-R_Spec_TSX

No pricing has been discussed, so I don't think that's what the Dr meant. He was quite ecstatic, so I'm guessing he would be willing to give up an organ to get an exhaust system.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

^

Seriously?
The Dr. is willing to give up a left orchi?

Acura TL Builder

Orchidectomy coming up. Zeta let’s scrub in!

Dont worry Dr.Honda, We’ll make a small incision at the back of your scrotum. You won’t even know it was done.