Auto-trans fluid change method?
01-26-2010, 09:27 AM
#1
Auto-trans fluid change method?
Is the preferred way to change out the fluid in an automatic transmission (2006 TL) the "triple drain" method? I see shops (including some Acura dealers) offering a flush which, to my knowledge, is contrary to the Acura service bulletins. Has there been a change in Acura's policy? Thanks. Steve
01-26-2010, 10:55 AM
#3
acura calls drain and refill a `flush`-
the 3x3 is if you added dextron3 fluid to the trans- it must be ~flushed~ clean from the system with manual drain and refill with 5 minute drive between because it eats the trans! total capacity is 7.3~ only half can be drained at a time while the rest in in the hidden parts
do a normal 3 qt- its a bit over 3 actually, drain and refill every year for good maitenance
the 3x3 is if you added dextron3 fluid to the trans- it must be ~flushed~ clean from the system with manual drain and refill with 5 minute drive between because it eats the trans! total capacity is 7.3~ only half can be drained at a time while the rest in in the hidden parts
do a normal 3 qt- its a bit over 3 actually, drain and refill every year for good maitenance
01-26-2010, 10:56 AM
#4
there is a bulletin for the newer model cars and different trans type than ours,
they can use an engine running method on the lift to let all the fluid get exchanged
they can use an engine running method on the lift to let all the fluid get exchanged
01-26-2010, 11:45 AM
#6
Is this the bulletin ?
Some A/T repair procedures call for flushing the trans using Acura Precision Crafted ATF-Z1 (and no substitutes). Problem is, where do you find the info to do that? It’s
Some A/T repair procedures call for flushing the trans using Acura Precision Crafted ATF-Z1 (and no substitutes). Problem is, where do you find the info to do that? It’s
not listed in the S/Ms and if you do an ISIS search, you’ll find a few ServiceNews articles on this subject, but they’re rather dated, and none of them say the same thing.
NOTE:
The term “flushing” refers to repeatedly draining and refilling the trans with Acura Precision Crafted ATF-Z1. Don’t confuse it with aftermarket flush systems. American Honda still strongly recommends that you avoid using them on any Acura vehicle. The original procedure was written for simpler A/Ts that readily upshifted when you ran the vehicle on a lift. But A/Ts have come a long way since then, and most of the newer ones balk at shifting past 2nd gear when on a lift, unless you work the shift lever a certain way. In light of all this, we thought it was high time that the A/T flushing procedure got a facelift. So here’s the latest word on flushing that works for all A/Ts:
1. Set the parking brake, and raise the vehicle on a lift.
2. Drain the trans, and refill it with Acura Precision Crafted ATF-Z1. Refer to the applicable S/M or to ISIS
for details.
3. Start the engine, shift into Drive, and release the parking brake.
4. Push down on the accelerator pedal to raise the vehicle speed to 2,500 rpm.
• If the trans shifts past 2nd gear, go to step 5.
• If the trans won’t shift past 2nd gear, keep the engine speed at 2,500 rpm and shift from Drive to
Neutral and back to Drive. Then go to step 5.
5. Make sure that the trans shifts through all the forward gears and goes into torque converter lockup.
6. Let off the accelerator pedal, and press the brake pedal to drop the vehicle speed to zero. Shift into
Reverse and then into Neutral.
7. Shift into Drive, and repeat steps 4 thru 6 four more times.
8. Set the parking brake, and repeat steps 2 thru 6 two more times.
9. Drain the trans, and reinstall the drain plug with a new sealing washer.
10. Refill the A/T with ATF-Z1.
1. Set the parking brake, and raise the vehicle on a lift.
2. Drain the trans, and refill it with Acura Precision Crafted ATF-Z1. Refer to the applicable S/M or to ISIS
for details.
3. Start the engine, shift into Drive, and release the parking brake.
4. Push down on the accelerator pedal to raise the vehicle speed to 2,500 rpm.
• If the trans shifts past 2nd gear, go to step 5.
• If the trans won’t shift past 2nd gear, keep the engine speed at 2,500 rpm and shift from Drive to
Neutral and back to Drive. Then go to step 5.
5. Make sure that the trans shifts through all the forward gears and goes into torque converter lockup.
6. Let off the accelerator pedal, and press the brake pedal to drop the vehicle speed to zero. Shift into
Reverse and then into Neutral.
7. Shift into Drive, and repeat steps 4 thru 6 four more times.
8. Set the parking brake, and repeat steps 2 thru 6 two more times.
9. Drain the trans, and reinstall the drain plug with a new sealing washer.
10. Refill the A/T with ATF-Z1.
Jan 2008
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01-26-2010, 12:48 PM
#8
thats the bulletin I was thinking of- written for newer cars, not the gen2-3 trans which does well on a feeding of 3 new qts once a year
note that acura newer car method only calls for 6 qts total, still leaving 1.2 old stuff in the system and its main desire is to maximize the techs time, less raising and lowering of the car, no 5 minute drives etc
the only time you NEED to do a full 12 qt 3x3 is if you added Dextron 3 to the acura fluid to top it off...low fluid level is reason to stop and look for a leak, not just add whatever fluid is at hand
note that acura newer car method only calls for 6 qts total, still leaving 1.2 old stuff in the system and its main desire is to maximize the techs time, less raising and lowering of the car, no 5 minute drives etc
the only time you NEED to do a full 12 qt 3x3 is if you added Dextron 3 to the acura fluid to top it off...low fluid level is reason to stop and look for a leak, not just add whatever fluid is at hand
01-26-2010, 06:44 PM
#10
flushing as used by the industry means a machine is hooked up and fluid is forced thru- thats a death warrant on a TL trans
Why acura insist on calling it a flush when they do simple drain and refill- its crazy! regardless of how you got the trans to shift thru the gears, on the road or on the rack, you were moving fluid from the TQ and selenoids to the drain outlet
Why acura insist on calling it a flush when they do simple drain and refill- its crazy! regardless of how you got the trans to shift thru the gears, on the road or on the rack, you were moving fluid from the TQ and selenoids to the drain outlet
01-26-2010, 11:52 PM
#11
Drifting
1. you always have relatively fresh fluid in your system.
2. allows you to monitor the metallic wear found on the magnetic drain plug on an annual basis. You also are more likely to catch any issues like tranny leaks quicker. The plastic cover under the tranny can mask leaks for some time before drips begin.
3. doesn't waste ATF as much- I have issues throwing out 5 minute old ATF
01-27-2010, 12:31 PM
#12
the stuff you drain at 5 minutes is the OLD fluid thats forced forward in the system by shifting thru each gear-
over 4 qts are hidden every time you drain 3, so push old fluid out with new fluid in--simple
over 4 qts are hidden every time you drain 3, so push old fluid out with new fluid in--simple
01-27-2010, 08:23 PM
#13
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Well Im not sure of this post, but in my understanding the thoughts on this is the fluid doesn't mix. This is very untrue the trans in general uses about 7.2 quarts of fluid give or take, when you drain and refill the new fluid will mix the second the trans pump goes to work. Its a closed system so the fluids will mix, now the continued draining will eventually get out all the fluid but you would probably have to do this at least four times to have 100% new fluid. I could be wrong but the theory that one liquid will push out another is very wrong any two liquids of the same chemistry will mix, just the nature of the fluids in general.
01-27-2010, 11:48 PM
#14
Drifting
^Back to the original question. I still think changing some of the fluid every 20K is better than changing ALL the fluid at 60k for the reasons stated. I realize that the fluid changed every iteration of a 3x3 will get progressively cleaner because it will mix while running through the gears. Even after the 3x3, it won't be 100% clean any way- I think it's something like 98%.
Here's a table to see the differences (assumes ATF has a 60K life):
Every 20K change .vs. Every 60K using 3x3
0-20K Miles (at end of period):
66% life on entire fill .vs. same
20K - 40K :
66% on 1/3 & 33% life on 2/3 .vs. 33% on entire fill
40K - 60K:
66% on 1/3 33% on 1/3 0% on 1/3 .vs. 0% on entire fill
60K - 80K:
same as above .vs. 65% on entire fill (residual is 0% and nasty)
80K -100K:
same as above vs. 32% on entire fill
and so on ...
I think another benefit of the every 20K is in the 50-60K interval where the ATF is nearing the end of its life on the every 60K interval but you have about 35% or higher at all times using the every 20K change interval.
Here's a table to see the differences (assumes ATF has a 60K life):
Every 20K change .vs. Every 60K using 3x3
0-20K Miles (at end of period):
66% life on entire fill .vs. same
20K - 40K :
66% on 1/3 & 33% life on 2/3 .vs. 33% on entire fill
40K - 60K:
66% on 1/3 33% on 1/3 0% on 1/3 .vs. 0% on entire fill
60K - 80K:
same as above .vs. 65% on entire fill (residual is 0% and nasty)
80K -100K:
same as above vs. 32% on entire fill
and so on ...
I think another benefit of the every 20K is in the 50-60K interval where the ATF is nearing the end of its life on the every 60K interval but you have about 35% or higher at all times using the every 20K change interval.
01-28-2010, 09:40 AM
#16
Safety Car
Originally Posted by chet03tl-s
10-19-2004, 10:01 pm
chet03tl-s
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post #13
join date: Jun 2003
location: Castro valley, ca
age: 25
posts: 594
doing the math. I assume 3qts are drained and the tranny holds 7.6qts. Each time you run the car a short distance through all the gear to mix the new fluid with the old and that you get a perfect dilution of the old and new fluid. If you keep doing this you should eventually get all the fluid out. Here are the number of fills and their related % of new fluid now in the tranny at each stage of the flush.
Drain/fill
1=39.5%
2=63.4%
3=77.8%
4=86.6%
5=91.9%
6=95.1%
7=97.0%
8=98.2%
9=98.9%
so using just 4 fills will only get 86.6% of the old fluid out.
chet03tl-s
registered user
post #13
join date: Jun 2003
location: Castro valley, ca
age: 25
posts: 594
doing the math. I assume 3qts are drained and the tranny holds 7.6qts. Each time you run the car a short distance through all the gear to mix the new fluid with the old and that you get a perfect dilution of the old and new fluid. If you keep doing this you should eventually get all the fluid out. Here are the number of fills and their related % of new fluid now in the tranny at each stage of the flush.
Drain/fill
1=39.5%
2=63.4%
3=77.8%
4=86.6%
5=91.9%
6=95.1%
7=97.0%
8=98.2%
9=98.9%
so using just 4 fills will only get 86.6% of the old fluid out.
01-28-2010, 02:58 PM
#17
Drifting
^based on these numbers, the change every 20K method is a vastly superior solution. Since the automatic is a closed system (unlike an Engine with combustion related contaniments), I'm not clear on the every year interval and would lean towards miles instead.
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