jgalvan

I'm and owner of a '04 TL Anthracite 5AT waiting for my meeting in two weeks w/ Acura's rep, as I've file for relief under Florida's lemon law. Brief short history is the car has been in the shop for repairs for over thirty five days. This was due to dirt in the paint on both front fenders (repainted hood and both front fenders- so so job, wasn't stripped. but painted over), paint peeling from front bumper cover (was told is would be stripped; overspray on headlights and paint drip run around tow hook hole). tire vibration at 55 and 75 (includes road force balance and new brigdestones), still flatspotting (travel a bit and embarrassed to be driving away from airport with co-workers and explaining that no, the car is not coming apart), vibration in the drivers door (five attempts to fix), and now the headliner falling down (common), and notice about being included in the trans recall.

I hate that it has come to this as I've owned a previous Acura (2003 TL-S; Paid to get out of lease year and a half early because '04 was that much better) and Honda (90 Accord coupe, 50th built; ran over 300k until ran over by Expedition in snowy parking lot) vehicles and they have been nothing but bullet proof. I've even sold 12 of them (7 first time honda owners) to family members while working for a buddy and no a problem with a one.

So why's it come to this?
I don't believe that a car w/ an MSRP of 35k plus, especially a honda product, should come from the factory with these issues. Seems like the majority of issues are things that should of been discovered during vehicle shakedown (headliner, tires, rattels, tires, trans), or caught from being shipped from the factory (paint) I know that most people are not having any or no problems at all. (Buddy has 6MT Anthracite and zero problems) I could live the problems if the were related to new features or major design changes (bluetooth, DVD-A, etc.), but majority of these problems are just poor execution

In a perfect world they'll take my '04 and replace it with another '04 that doesn't have any issues, or better yet give me an '05.

I've spoke w/ the Acura rep and they would like one more attempt to resolve the issue. He said that if they're unable to fix, I have the choice of a replacement vehicle, or a refund, but didn't go into detail of what that meant.


Anyone else have any lemon law experience w/ Acura in Florida? How did it go? What did you want to resolve the issue? Anyone else got suggesitons from other states? Anyone else filing on an '04?

Thanks

Tread

You should turn on your PM, you may get more bites that way.

Pot80h

We went through a buy-back situation in 99 with GM on a 3/4 ton Suburban. It was in NV, so there may be differences in the legal requirements. We used the BBB as arbitration, but they ruled against us (the arbitrator was an ass), so my husband started a website out of frustration. A week after we posted it, he sent some pages to GM - 3 days later they bought it back!

At least Acura seem to be interested/capable of working with you - GM didn't care. MY favorite quote from the West Coast rep: "Your brakes haven't failed yet; your steering hasn't failed yet - what's the problem?"

If you want, you can check out the website at www.gmclemon.com. We keep it running as an example of what can happen during lemon legislation. We had to learn everything the hard way. There were NO lemon attorneys in Nevada; and there may not be to this day. Oh, and we have all the papers to back up the site in case GM tries to make us take it down- they haven't yet!!

Good luck!

Lore

Pot80h:

Pretty nice site you have set-up... I did that back in 1995 for a defective US Robotics Sportster modem back when the Internet as we know it today was in its infancy and Geocities was the only thing I could afford (free)... and it worked wonders as a consumer alert, like your site obviously did.

Good work... I've been to the dealer a million times for the rattles that never get fixed (steering column rattle has come back 4 times, door rattles going on after 5 repair attempts now,) and drooping headliner problems and might be considering a lemon law claim as well. We'll see.

Pot80h

Hehe thanks, Lore. The only thing I can take credit for is suggesting the music (not sure if that still works). The website was an act of pure irritation and frustration on my husband's behalf. He had been dealing with all that crap on top of an insane work schedule. He's a programmer, so it was relatively easy for him to put it together in what little spare time he had. To me, it's worth the $30 a year it costs to keep it up there. We still get mail once in a while, too.

On the headliner, did you know that Infiniti has a TSB for the headliner on the G35?

I bet if I dug around the darker recesses of this house I could find a Sportster We NEVER throw ANY technology away - or at least it feels that way sometimes...

Best of luck with your car, too, btw.

dtpjigzer

i just got my 03 tl-s bought back! and im now im getting a 04 tl. don't know which 04 yet, but im going to have to pick soon!

Lore

Yeah, I still have my two Sportsters somewhere. They ended up swapping mine out for the older and better, non-buggy version. I remember getting published in PC World too. Those were the days where companies were JUST starting to find out about the Internet's power.

I did not know that Inifiniti has a TSB out on the headliner - my friend's G35 doesn't seem like it'll be susceptible to the same droopiness as mine. Do you know what the purported fix is?

Pot80h

No, but if you go to alldata.com and look under the model year, make etc, it should bring it up. Your friend's car might not have the problem.

I had a fight with my local Infiniti dealer about the lousy brakes on my QX4. I produced a TSB from June 2003 which they claimed had been done already when I dropped it off. They 'fessed up later that it hadn't. This was 11 months later and I'd complained about the rotors every time it had been in for the past 2 years! Dozy beggers! They thought they could try that crap on because I'm a girl! I can't wait to get the TL - the Acura guys treated me much better!!!

campIIIMAF

talk about nit-piken!

Sherlock

I think if Acura doesn't come up with a solution to my crap@$$ 04TL soon I might have to go the route of a web site. I can host it on my free ISP pages, or I can host it on my server at home all the same.

They said they are "working on it" and that it takes about 2 weeks, but it has been 3 weeks now. They have not faxed me copies of my last 2 service visits like they said they would. The shop has not mailed me a copy of my last service visit like they said they would. The guy SCOTT HAMBY at Acura has copped a SERIOUS attitude when he talks to me now. "I thought I told you that this is a lengthy process the LAST time we spoke". I reminded him that he also said it takes about 2 weeks to do the paperwork and I thought I was being nice with 3 weeks leniency.

I've been trying to let them swap this car out under the honor of the Lemon Law so that I don't have to file it formally and put it on their record, but my patience is running thin. This car vibrates like a MoFo due to their inability to balance the tires. And I'm sure we're all aware of all the probs I've had with mine, a lot of them the same as many.

I am wearing thin on my being nice and am getting very close to submitting the form on georgia's Lemon Law site.

TBone2004

When people say "been in the shop 30 days, 35 days - now going for Lemon Law" do they mean consecutive days - or is it cummulative? Always wondered this - thanks.

Sherlock

here's the link to the Georgia Lemon Law. Lots of jargon but I think it equates to 30 total days in the shop for one fix, which is your "out of service" days.

http://www2.state.ga.us/GaOCA/lemonlaw.htm

boltjames

I've sort of got a related issue that I could use help with. I'm so happy with my TL that I'm looking for a Strawberry Law that legally forces me to pay more to Acura for delivering such a perfect car to the people of the United States.

Anyone have suggestions from other states? Anyone else filing on an '04?

BJ

GaleForce

Wow that joke was just really not funny at all.

NightRider

BJ's warped sense of humor is almost as bad as my warped brake rotors before they resurfaced them...

DopeTL04

lindros2

"Strawberry Law" ? Clearly not funny in this context, especially with all the issues we've [cumulatively] had.

DopeTL04

Yea at least keep it in the family and call it the "orange law"!

BarryH

He's also the one who said the reason the cars are having problems is that they are being driven by a demographic that's pushing them harder than Honda/Acura intended. In other words - the car's fine, it's the users fault.

Lore

Yeah, I remember that.. heh. I think it's fine that some people don't have problems, but you shouldn't discount those that do. We (the ones with problematic TLs) don't question the claims of your perfect TL, so why question our claims?

Sure, it's possible that some people spend an ample amount of time fabricating complex stories about their transmissions falling out but I definitely do not have that much time to throw away posting fake non-issues. (That was just an example, I am not doubting that some of you do have legitimate transmission concerns).

In any case, once you file your lemon law case in FL, let us know how it goes.

Sherlock

I don't think Honda/Hacura could ever say that the car was being driven by a demographic outside of the performance specs of the car. They really don't make any cars where the engine technology would be less than they always have of F1 technology, high revving, generous horsepower in most cases, 4 wheel independent multi-link wishbone setups, vtec for more power. And then come back and say that the car isn't meant to be driven like we all associate with "typical Honda" ?? which is hard and fun. That's their HERITAGE. That you can take any of their cars and run the fun hell out of it and it begs for more.

And it's just STUPID to say that about this TL, tight suspension, 270hp, 235/45's.. and then say we're driving it hard.. it's like saying the M5 is for grannies.

boltjames

Define 'driving it hard'.

It's one thing to hit an occassional twisty at 50 mph and screetch the tires a wee bit. Its another thing entirely to lower the car, add intakes, change the wheels, change the tires, and then drive like a mini-Andretti in a car made for a mini-Trump.

It's a luxury car with a sporty suspension and a beefy engine. It's not a sports car with luxury amenitites. If you wanted that, you should have purchased a Porsche.

The TL wasn't designed to be customized and pushed any harder than it already is. How many reviewers have to point out the "too much power to the front wheels" and "Acura may have reached the limit of what a FWD car can do" and "the torque steer is terrible" for you to get the fact that in stock condition the car is already at (or beyond) the limits of what you want it to do? Add all these mods and what do you think is going to happen?

This isn't some 4 cylinder Civic that could use a little muscle and stickum. It comes pre-modded from the factory. I get the feeling that some of you have owned cheap Civics and Accords for the last 5 years, modded them, grew up, graduated college, got real jobs, decided to get the best new Honda you could afford, bought the TL.....but no one gave you the message that you can't mod a car that's already at its horsepower/handling limit. High school's over; you buy the car you want from the git-go once you cross the $30k plateau folks.

Those with falling headliners and bad paint, well that's what you get for buying a car in its first year. Sucks and you have a right to gripe. But the other stuff? Seems to me that most of the 40 year old soccer dads in here are pleased as can be. Maybe its because we don't turn our TL's into a weekend hobby. We took auto shop in high school.....no need to experiment on a $35,000 luxury car. If the TL wasn't what we wanted when we bought it we simply would have bought a different car.

BJ

GaleForce

BJ theres nothing wrong with buying the car you like most and then making it better.

NightRider

It also all depends on the money you have. If I had the money I would have bought the 2004 MB S600 (look and be amazed) --->

http://www.mbusa.com/brand/container...ubNav=overview

Unfortunately, being only 19, I don't have $2,000 or so a month to spend on a car! Also being this is my only car, I still needed something reliable and wanted something nice, so I went with the TL. I am young but am still looking for more from the TL. This is the same theory that entices people with Vipers, Corvettes and the like to get $20,000-$40,000 supercharger upgrades. Everyone always wants more...

boltjames

I agree completely! It's great! But you just can't complain if you mess with it too much, take it's performance characteristics out of spec, and wind up with a few rattles and some strange handling.

As much as I respect the dudes in here who are mod afficianado's, I have to respect 20 years of Acura engineering more. Acura gets the benefit of the doubt, not the modders who are deliberately changing the delicate balance of power/handling/performance/luxury that the TL is. A car like a 4-cylinder Civic may be under-powered for the handling the car is capable of. Slap some bigger wheels, plunk some stickier tires, lower an inch, supercharge it.....it makes the car better. The TL is already at the limit of its handling capabilities, so all these mods may be making things worse, not better. I'm no engineer, but I just have a hunch that Acura made this car mod-resistant because of how hard they're pushing the boundries of FWD technology and powerful 6-cylinder engines. Looking at the radical measures Acura went to with its new SH-AWD system coming on the new RL, I'd say that the TL is as far as a dedicated FWD vehicle can go...

BJ

GaleForce

You can't complain if you cause the problem. But if you put CAI in your car and your headliner starts to droop and your start getting rattles in the door panel it would have happened with or without the CAI. Just an example, but you get my point.

Aegir

There is a point at which I would agree with you, where modifications begin to detrimentally affect OEM characteristics and owners lose the ground to complain about the side-effects of their work. However, I have seen few TL's modified to this extent. I've seen pics of a couple on 20's and one that was dropped very low that would fall into this category.

Keep in mind that many second gen 'mods' are third gen features - CAI, sway bar sizes, low profile tires, exhaust, A-Spec accessories, etc. There's a lot of crap out there, but a lot of well engineered parts and accessories as well. Acuras are well built enthusiast cars and are meant to be driven with enthusiasm. They won't fall apart from it, but any car can get a squeak or a rattle. Sometimes its a reflection of how the car has been treated, sometimes its bad engineering, sometimes bad assembly, and sometimes its its just bad luck.

Some quotes from Jon Ikeda, chief designer for the TL: "Performance is what Acura's all about." "Enthusiasts are what the TL is all about. It was designed for the enthusiast." "You guys [enthusiasts] are about creating things, and we're really excited about that at Acura...Please, add bigger wheels, lower the car, beef up the suspension." Clearly, the mods we're seeing for TL's were on the designer's radar screen. Hell, Acura incorporates them into their concepts and lumped a nice package of mods together and called it A-Spec. This isn't unexpected ground being treaded on.

Lore

How about those of us who did not mod the car (except for body side moldings) and experience rattles and drooping headliners? That's the group I speak for. I don't know about the rest of the folks who add CAIs, sway bars, change their suspension, etc..

Speaking of which, I saw an A-Spec Anthracite/Ebony TL today WITHOUT a spoiler! What's up with that? It had the emblem and everything!

Aegir

Not true. You've upgraded your wheels and added high performance tires. You've violated the sanctity of the stock TL. Everything that goes wrong with your TL is now your fault. :P

boltjames

Finally someone gets it. Good job.

BJ

Lore

But just to play along, what if I told you that more than half of my repair orders for rattles and creaks were PRIOR to the car receiving the 18" OEM wheels? I haven't gotten the wheels for that long.

Pot80h

To be brief, I feel that this whole situation is aggravated by the dealers. I've dealt with a number of different marques and dealers since coming to Vegas from the UK, and have noticed the following trends...

1. Some service managers don't listen to their customers when they come in with a problem. It's probably unconscious, but they hear "wha wha wha wha". And they're often too quick to dismiss the problem as being either caused by the driver or a figment of the imagination. In the space of 2 minutes, I was told that my warped rotors were caused by "braking too hard" and "braking too gently"!

2. The information that is put into the computer is sometimes badly worded or just plain incorrect. Again, this is probably accidental, but sometimes it can be deliberate to avoid lemon litigation. This gives later employees or service technicians bad information, and the manufacturer has no way of spotting true issues. We have learned to read the service order before we leave the dealer and to correct anything that is wrong.

3. The information about the problem is not always relayed to the technicians correctly. We had problems with a transmission on a Ram truck that was finally fixed AFTER we got to talk to the dealer's transmission guy.

Having a problem with a car is bad enough, but being treated like you're imagining it, or being told "It's supposed to do that" just rubs salt into the wounds. The inability of the dealer to fix things can be VERY frustrating. I am on my 3rd CD player on my Infiniti, and this one is now stopping and skipping. The service rep now refuses to replace it, and wrote on the service note that the unit must be cleaned after every 10 hours of play. And I have to buy the special CD player cleaner thingy!!

Aegir

Yeah, but you were thinking about it and the car knew it!

frainc

My son got a 2004 TL with the 6-speed this past Wed. I have a 2003 TL-S and my wife has a 94 Ledgend with 172,000 miles. My son said what could go wrong with a Acura since we never had any problems with ours.

Well, after 50 miles and less than 24 hours he had to bring it back to the dealer because oil was leaking on the driveway. They ordered 2 new head gaskets, but it still leaked and don't know where its coming from. My salesman called today and told him that he will have another new TL, same everything, Monday :P . They are going to let Acura take the car and try to find out what's wrong.

He is happy that only 2 days passed and instead of trying to fix it and you going back again and again that he will have another new car in a couple of days.

We get all our cars from Hillside Acura in Bay Shore, Long Island. If looking to buy on then see Mr. Johnson, Sales Manager, and tell him that I send you their.

Novice

Amazing!

need4spd

Let us know when you really get a new car, until then I am skeptical

Lore

The car's a sneaky one, ain't it?

frainc

We got the new VIN number already so that he could call his insurance company to change it for the other new TL.

This is why I got five cars from this person, because if something is really wrong he will work with you untill its fixed or in my son's case, just get you a new one.

need4spd

Congrats!

NEWKID2004

u guys just like to sue people. i hope u guys go to hell. damnnnn