Manach

Dealer: Montgomeryville Acura

Car: Certified Pre-owed 2004 Acura TL 66,000 miles One previous owner.

Issue: Went for Inspection, Failed because front pads and rotors where totally worn. I knew the guy and he let me see from myself, so I know they are in-fact shot. This car was certified and the requirements state that wear greater that 50% on pads or rotors requires replacement.

Question: I have only driven about 10,000 miles so I am wondering how likely it is that I would wear that much of the pads and rotor in that time. Any advice on what to do or expect would be appreciated. Im not really expecting much (which is why I posted a question about new brakes I have been researching) but I still wanted to know what you guys think and if nothing else I can probably pressure them into some discounts or free service, we'll see...

What I have done so Far: I called the dealer asking for more information on there certified pre-owned cars (acting like I was shopping for a car) I ask the certification requirements for brakes he told me, I then asked how long could I expect that to last he states, around 30,000 miles if around minimum. He then asks what specific car I was interested in and I told him I was interested in the car I just brought from them and why I have 30,000 miles of wear in 10,000 miles of light driving. No answer just told me to call the person who worked on the deal with me, then transfered me, I couldn't get him so I left a message asking him to return my call.

Thanks for an comments guys, -Manach

1075

10,000 city or highway miles?

If they are highway miles, I would definitely insist on a brake job. If you do mostly city or stop & go driving, then I would be less confident with your position.

Manach

Its mostly city miles. How long did the last pair of rotors or pads you had last you?

1075

My TL is an '08, but my driving is mostly highway and I get at least 50-70,000 miles on a set of brakes on my other vehicles.

chairguru22

I would go in with the info you just got. Tell them you put 10,000 miles on it and they are expected to go for 30,000. I'm from the area and that dealer is actually closest to me although I haven't dealt with them. I hear they are good though. Update us on what happens and who you work with.

jeffkinetictypes

i work for an acura dealer near seattle, and have had 2 6sp manual TL with brembo brakes up front, and on both my 06 6sp, and my 07 type s 6sp, i ran through the brembos pretty quickly, about 18-20k, i bought both cars brand new, and had less than 50 miles when i bought them, it is entirely possible to put 50% of wear on pads, especially mostly city driving,(or with "spirited" driving) especially if your car is a 6sp with the brembos. as far as rotors ,that completely depends on the driver, rotors can be shot in a matter of months, or miles, depending on your driving habbits. and with 66k on it, rotors definitely could be time for a replacement, considering with that kinda miles the brakes have been changed at least once, and rotors were probably turned, which shortens the life every time you turn them, because it thins the rotor thickness a little each time, also making it easier for them to warp when hot, from hard driving.

01tl4tl

who says they should last 30k miles after you bought the car? Is this a state law?
I have never expected any used car to have good anything!

CPO requires a minimum amount of pad, lets say 50%, but if thats 50 percent of original depth, or 50 of lifespan, since you pads start at 8mm, with a 2mm min- if your state says 4mm is min...
A car with 66k miles, I would expect is wearing out its 1st set of pads if driven n long trips with little use of brakes, but more likely on its 2nd set of pads that went on at 30-40

You can try to get the sales manager to help you by getting the work done at internal labor rate, but the sale is done, its a month later---as far as they know you went to track day weekend and wore out the brakes
What does the contract say?
Ask to see the cars file and its CPO checklist from the mechanic
That should note the measured amount of brakes, or it may just have a check mark in the OK box

01tl4tl

Jeff- Can you give us the straight story on CPO inspections please!

Is it a visual check over of the basics, or really take the wheels off and measure the pad depth and condition-
check each tire condition/wear-or just measure its depth... or make up a depth....
(not that you would do that-just stories you may have heard about other shops)

thanks!!

Manach

jeffinetictypes - I dont have brembos, but I have heard they wear pretty quick compared to other brakes though. As far as rotors my mile doesn't matter because regardless of the amount their supposed to have 50 thickness left, they are allowed to just resurface them if there warped but once again only if 50 thickness is left after they cut them. Thats the point of this requirement cuz as you said, every time rotors are turned there life is shorted so this requirement ensures that the rotors weren't turned to the point that they will need replacement in a week of purchase.

01tl4tl - The 30K miles statement was made my the representative I spoke to on the phone at Montgomeryville. Its cop requirement not state law. The fact that they can say I went to the track everyday (which I never did) is why im not expecting much. I should have been given a cpo checklist copy per cpo requirements but I didn't. This is also why I wonder if they didn't inspect the brakes properly. Hopefully they have is on file but I really doubt that.

Here is what they are supposed to check...
http://www.acura.com/content/PreOwned/CPO_150pt.pdf
As far as what the dealer actually checks, that depends on how honest the dealer and mechanics are. Thats why I went with Montgomeryville because I trusted them. They have been rated as a precision dealer for I think the past 3 years by Acura and not many dealers get that rating. I will let everyone know what happens I'll be calling the dealer manager tomorrow.

jeffkinetictypes

as far as a check list, at the dealer i work for we have detail records of every inspection, and what was done to the car, ask them for the inspection sheet, or a copy of it, if they can not provide one, then you may have a case with them, chances are they do tho, because i believe honda finance requires a copy of it with the certification paperwork. they measure the rotors by millimeters, not by 50% of the life, so you could theoretically blow through BRAND NEW rotors with in a weekend, not likely, but you could. depending on hot spots, glazing, warping, etc...

My first TL i changed pads and rotors at 18k, mainly because i drive hard but i shot the rotors to the point they couldnt be turned. they tried turning them but they had to shave off so much that the rotors couldnt be used, because the THICKNESS was not enough left. there is no way to realistically estimate a rotor life span, or brake pads for that matter, because people driving habits are so much different. there are recommendations of when they should be changed but, that can come earlier or later...

best suggestion i would have is to first check see if they have the inspection list, it should tell you the measured amount of pad left when they did the inspection, chances are if there is any info on the rotors, it will just say "turned and measured @.... mm" if you can see that and it doesn't line up with what was supposed to be done then try to fight it, if they do have records,and they reflect the correct measurements and procedures, then your kinda SOL and fighting it is just going to cause quite a bit of head ache for you and the dealer, and a bad taste in your mouth about them, at that point i would just slap some new rotors and pads, if your budget can support it, and then feel good about having brand new brakes you can count on for 30-50k more :-). Maybe ask if they can fit the labor part of the bill, or the parts, or chip in a little to help, since you JUST bought the car.

biggest thing you can do to help yourself out is to go to the sales manager, or service manager, and express your concern, but with dealers, they dont like being called out on mistakes, so DONT go about it with a chip on your shoulder, or with an attitude like "you guys or gonna fix this or else", youll get alot further, and theyll treat you a lot nicer, so just be cool, and calm, and dont blow up, believe me it works alot better to get what you want, especially at a car dealership.

jeffkinetictypes

01tl4tl:

just so you know, im in sales, but have owned several acuras, and perform all maintenance myself, as well as tuning( been into workin on hondas well before i worked for them) there is a specific check list that is supposed to be completed. as the link above that manach provided, pads are supposed to be changed at 50% of the pad total thickness, which is i believe 10mm(could be wrong), so measured at 4.9mm or less they need to be changed (and that will be noted on the check list), rotors are a diff story, they do a drive test for warping, fading, and visual inspection for hot spots, glazing, etc... they will try to resurface if possible, at my dealer, if they are not able to be resurfaced they replace them, but thats us, and they dont have to do that

StonedCL

iTrader: (1)

Isnt the DLR suppose to garentee car passes inspection when sold from new car dlr.
I work at a dlr and we garentee all cars pass inspections if they fail for ANY reason we fix the problem till they pass!

Manach

Well heres the update...

Called Montgomeryville Acura's Service manager. I simply stated that I had a concerns I wanted to discuss. I told him I never got a copy of the 150-point inspection but I trusted them so I was'nt concerned until I had failed an inspection last week. He said driving habits vary ect. I said I understand that so I just wanted to get a copy of the inspection to put my mind at ease. He said that was fine he would mail it out. He also said the fronts were found to meet requirements but the rear brakes were replaced so they should be fine which was inline with what the inspection said so everything sounds strait to me.

Thanks for comments guys and jeffkinetictypes thanks for the inside info and advice. Ill be getting new front brakes soon.

jeffkinetictypes

no problem man, if i were you, i would still try and get him to discount the labor, or parts a little still, never hurts to try, worst they can say is no, i mean shoot, you did just spend a big chunk of money with them, just call and say "hey man thanks for the help, just wondering if there was anyway you could help out a little with the price, considering they did pass the inspection, but i still wasn't expecting to have to drop more money so quick, anything would help",they want to keep you happy, dealers cant afford to loose people now-a-days.

Manach

Im going to mention it, I will be getting aftermarket parts though so they wont help with that. They might help with the labor cost but only if I go there but I might not as they are a ways away from me. I have had it a year and 3 months they'll say you didn't just buy it though it seems soon for brakes idk they are looking to keep people happy these days though so as you said it wont hurt to ask.