Formula 350

I bought a 2004 6 speed because they did not have one on the Accord sedan...

Now that they do, I do not know if the price difference is worth the extra stuff on the car.. a lot of people here seem to have badge envy with the Accord, but then will say they did not buy a BMW or Mercedes because of badge envy...

If you are going for auto... the Accord wins the value game hands down... you can get more of a discount and it is a great car...

Now I want to look at the Civic SI to replace my daily beater... but might go with a 'regular' civic... I do not need much room as it is only to get me to the park and ride and back...

spool32

I was in the market for a WRX STi since they came out. The EVO is a little better car, but after owning a Mitsu and my GF having one as well, i'm convinced they are disposable cars and fall to pieces starting at 70k miles. My eclipse has so many squeaks and rattles its like riding with a paper bag full of crickets as a passenger. The A/C sucks so bad i've considered installing a misting system plus I live in Phoenix.

I saw an article when they came out with the Accord Hybrid. Since I drive 2 billion miles a day I figured that would do well for me on gas and even though its not that pretty, its the best looking hybrid that I've seen out. I dont know why they have to put those ugly straight rear tire covers on hybrids. After seeing the price with Navi coming out to just 3k under an Acura TL and comparing the appeal of the two cars I was definately sold on the TL. Plus the A/C on hybrids turns f@#king off when you're at a stop! How fun is that when its 115º out??

TL gets maybe 6mpg worse than the Accord Hybrid, costs 3k more and a better looking car than anything that I've looked at. After comparing the TL to IS250/300/350, G35, though its slightly lesser than the G35 and IS350, its a way better value. Most everything comes standard and the only things you can really add on are eye candy.

TL is my choice

Gadgets

Since my my local Honda dealer has a fleet of loaner Civics, free car washes with ANY service regardless of price, and of course the friendly atmosphere, those few thousand dollars are only buying you snacks, canned drinks, and coffee.

DLOMAC

Not exactly. The loaner cars are comparable models (RL for me), the free car washes are not associated with service (encouraged to just drop in for that---saving many $$$ for sure), and the friendly atmosphere is unfortunately not a given nowadays...of course. Honda is high sales volume (= pro quota) and, like many similar high volume brands, that means the special treatment will more than likely come to a dead stop once the sale is complete. I'm not seeing that with Acura. For example, the salesperson that sold me the Acura demanded that I call him whenever I am in for service so that he can follow the car through its paces and went so far as reminding ME about a follow-up admin favor that he offered to do months ago and stopped by shake my hand when I arrived. Sure, I agree this type of sales is not universal but rarely would this be found at a Honda dealership. In fact, my Acura experience so far is in line with my past Lexus and Cadillac experiences...normally the 1 and 2's with JD Powers. Not to drag this thing on...in essence, I am saying that you have a better chance of this type of pre and post sales treatment at Acura and it does make a difference when talking and feeling good about the car.

mn2trance

LMAO . . . so true in a sense.

I chose the TL over the Accord because it was more bang for the buck. Besides, I think they did the 7th gen Accord a huge injustice with that ugly exterior design.

2005Aspec

And I care what Walton drove? He obviously wasnt a car enthusiast, you are. (Assuming such since you waste time like us posting on car forums bickering about cars.)

My point is that a person that goes and test drives a mercedes benz is not going to test drive a kia and decide on one.

You're either full of shit or trying to argue.

MR1

I understand where you are coming from but still disagree. Sometimes we try to be totally practical (Kia) and sometimes we are fighting not to and say 'just screw it?(Mercedes)' It depends on the level of reason one might be trying to achieve.

There are lots of options to choose from before deciding which is the one. I looked at and thought about Kia SUV, BMW 325-330, X3 & X5, New Mustang GT, VW Passat, Honda Civic and Accord, Inifiniti G35C and a few others. All would get me where I need to go. The TL won as best combo feature/drive for me at this time.

ttliang

i own both right now 04 & 04. i'd go with TL even with the price difference. all my friends' accords 03+ have rattles so does mine. nuisance only no big D. I've been accord owner almost all my driving life. quality has been going down hill non-stop. I've also heard TL rattle snakes before. thank god mine is not (all 3 acura i owned were good boys). all in all they are both good cars for their price. nothing major for years that's the key (barring bad apples once every blue moon but no manufacturers can escape that). new accord is even uglier (tail light change) but that's in your eye...
performance wise 6sp coupe i drove was way to soft handling wise. let's all admit both cars are not ideal candidates for racing so please can the HP and 0-60 talk. they are fast enough that's all i cared. ride is important. TL with Aspec is much much more "planted" no matter where you are.

SebringSilver

The threadstarter could actually get the best of both worlds by just buying the TSX, the "Acura Accord".

Gadgets

I couldn't care less as long as it's new and not a Geo Metro size car.
Who the hell takes their car to the dealer for a wash?? I'd rather do it myself all the while knowing nothing is going to get dinged, dented, or scratched at the hand of another person.

At least someone is willing to pay thousands for this. As long as I get a good deal at purchase and treated fairly when it comes to service, that's all that matters. I guess I am lucky to have a couple local Honda dealers that fit this image. "IF" my wife decides she wants the TL, I will be curious to see if there's really any noticeable difference.

Legend2TL

Haven't had time to read all the responses in this thread but the only vehicles I considered for my new car were a Accord 4cyl 5MT leather, Acura TSX 6MT, and Acura TL 6MT.

In the end I bought the TL.

The Accord was essentially a practical choice, I've driven the 7gen Accord in V6 and 4 cylinder. I felt the V6 handling suffered slightly due to the more front weight of the V6. Also the V6 was not then available in a manual and it's cost was not much less than a TL.

The 4 cyl Accord's were being heavily discounted early this year, but I felt it lacked soul and having had a 89 Legend which although was extremely reliable was also somewhat boring to drive. If I wanted to go from point A to B with little drama and easy ownership then I would gotten the Accord. Maintenance was also easier since it had a timing chain (on the 4 cylinder), and everything under the hood was simple to get to.

After ~8K miles and 7+ months, I'm still glad I choose the TL. Alot of fun to drive, great to look at, a little more ownership cost over the Accord but I feel it's worth it.

Drive both, think about all the factors (cost, type of driving, fun factor,....), then decide for yourself. Either way both the TL and Accord are nice cars.

1sweetTL

Yes, for sure.

I am new to this forum as well, but your username tells me you enjoy driving.

N2siast think about what your doing.
Your 39 yrs. old..... as am I.
Do you want to settle for a run of the mill Accord (although it is a great car, my mom owns one.)

Or do you want to feel some electricity everytime you walk up to get into your car to drive it.

The TL is a hot looking car.

(Hell if I had a dollar for everytime I got stares in my TL...... I'd have Sam Walton's money)

Bottomline is you can't go wrong with either, but treat yourself bettter, splurge a little. you will not regret it.

Let's face it, unless Price is your main concern, the TL wins hands down.
Forget about the KIA...that is a hundai in disguise.

Good Luck.

Luke7

I just gave up my 91 Accord Ex with 302,000 for a 99 TL Navi with 38,000 on it. My old Accord at 35 MPH was more noisy than my TL at 75. More looks, power, creature comforts and just plain nicer/fun to drive. No one ever told me what a great riding, quiet car my Accord was but now I hear it from everyone about the TL. The last great comment from a backseat rider was, "Is this thing running" when we were sitting at a gas station. It was! The TL (new ones) are better handling cars that you would really enjoy driving more. Do the test on both the Accord and TL and you'll see what I mean!

n2siast

You're absolutely right. I test drove the Kia and I left uninspired. I have an appointment to drive the TL tomorrow and I'm looking forward to it. I really like the styling of the new generation TL. My only concern is this torque steer I keep reading about. How bad is it really?

6MTPlease

Having had both an 03 Accord and a TL, I'd have to say no way! The Accord was the biggest lemon I've ever owned, plagued with several nagging quality problems from day one. My TL, like my previous TL, has so far been trouble free.

6MTPlease

Aside from problems I associate with the Accord based on my experience with my 03 Accord, I'd have to say there are more reasons to choose the TL instead.

You could argue that the equipment list of the Accord EX V6 appears to be catching up to the TL, but I would argue that there's much more to a car than it's list of equipment. The interior of the Accord is its strong suit, with quality materials (though less-than-stellar assembly). However, spend some time in both cars and you'll begin to see where the extra $ goes in the TL. Better materials and better attention to detail add up to a luxurious experience that the Accord just doesn't have. And I'm not talking about simple brand consciousness; I mean the feeling the car actually gives the driver.

I had an Accord Cpe V6 6MT--just like the 06 Accord Sedan. But it is NOT the 6MT of the TL! Not even close. Grinding gears and synchros in the Accord is its "normal" condition--the worst Honda shifter I've ever had. The TL's, while not perfect, is much slicker and a pleasure to drive. My wife hated the Accord's 6-spd; she loves the TL's.

Another big difference: the LSD. The accord was impossible to launch turning right without churping the inside front. The TL has obvious torque steer, but the LSD and VSA mitigate it very well in normal driving.

I'd say that if you want to feel like you got more than you paid for, get a TL. If you think a spec sheet adequately describes a car, you may as well buy a Kia--or a Pontiac for that matter.

03CoupeV6

I had some quirks in my 03 because it was an early production first-year model. But my 93, 95, 97, 99, 01, and now 05 ones were perfect.

My TL, on the other hand, despite being a late-build 2002 model (43XXX) is the biggest POS I've ever owned. $5000 in warranty work from 33k miles to 47k miles and that is not including a transmission replacement that is now needed? My Accords have been far, far, far superior cars.

But before you say it, you're right, I'm comparing a second gen TL and this thread is about the new ones. It still doesn't take away the fact that I do have a TL that is, in and of itself, 3500lbs of worthless shit.

teranfon

Interesting thread. I can understand your concern with trying to choose the "right" car for your needs. I myself was asking the same questions close to nine months ago. The two cars I was considering for myself was either the TSX or Accord coupe 6MT. Both were nearly identical in price. I was also comparing a TL automatic and an Accord hybrid for my mother. It sounds like you, much as myself, was not too fimiliar with Honda products. For my own car I drove both the TSX and Accord several times. After three months I settled on the Accord. Why? I found the performance, with the six speed, a very entertaining car. Handling wise, the TSX was slightly superior, but certainly not enough to detract from spirited driving with the Accord. The six speed Accord comes with the 17's, strut bar, larger front brakes, and tweaked suspension.

I also wanted to purchase a car for my mother. She loved both the TL and Accord hybrid. Again I drove each cars several times. Both were tremendous cars to drive. The TL had a slightly more luxurious feel, but overall felt to be similiar to the Accord. The TL was also superior in handling, but suprisingly no better than the Accord six speed. The hybrid felt better constructed than the TL, most likely due to being built in Japan. The hybrid also felt more torquey than the TL. I realize that these two observations are exclusive to the hybrid, and that "regular" Accords are Ohio built and obviously have a different powertrain. The TL was about $1200 more than the hybrid. In the end I purchased the hybrid. Not to say that the TL is the inferior car. It is very much a desirable car, with impressive handling and comfort qualities. If I had to choose between a TL and a non-hybrid Accord EX V6 I would probably purchase the Accord. I would not be able to justify the $5000 difference. Again, this is only my personal preference.

In regards to servicing I have found my Honda dealership to be excellent. Loaners, coffee, washes, and attention to detail seems to be the norm. In the end I don't think you can go wrong with either Honda or Acura.

Terry

spool32

I've tested a couple so far. Maybe i'm not as tuned in to catching it or i was afraid to terrify the sales person that rode with me expecting me to behave like an insurance agent. But the worst torque steer I've ever experience was my 97 wrangler when I blew up the rear end and had to drive two weeks in 4wd and no rear driveshaft

If its fast and I can keep it out of curbs and sidewalks then its no foul for me.

Luke7

A few comments on service, since this has been discussed here.
Honda vs. Acura Dealerships
Several days after purchasing my used 99 TL I visited the Acura garage to purchase some touch up paint. I decided to talk to the service manager about service for my Acura. He said he could only look up the records if I gave him the VIN #. I went out to the parking lot, (he didn't offer to go with me or be of any assistance) got the vin # and all he said was do you plan on having it serviced here? GEE wez! I'm standing in the service dept. asking about the records for the car and he had the guts to ask me that? He offered no info. on when the next scheduled maintanence would be, never asked me any questions and was down right unfriendly. I'm a professional, in professional dress clothes and was treated like #@$%$#. Seems the Acura dealer isn't interested in my business. A little friendly information about the next service for the car would have been helpful. It was lunch time and I guess I was infringing on his time. I won't ever go back there again!!!! Customer service is everything, appearantly he was never taught this.

Brettg

Dont be so sure about that!
While the Passat is a nice car, dont count on it getting you where you want to go!
I traded one in on the TL, becuase it was always broke, and serious problems
like fuel pumps wearing out, not minor problems.

And if you REALLY like abuse, the VW dealers will give you a good dose of that,
along with stupidity.

Brett

mickey3c

Regardless of how you dress I do not believe that service at acura dealers is what it used to be. Being in your 40s you can probably recall the days where you had a mechanic that you sent holiday cards to... lol One time I took my car to a mechanic (long time ago) I was told that while he would look at my car he would have to service his regular customers first! I was a bit put off since my money is as good as anyone who comes in after me with a problem. Should I be put off because I have not been there as often. I said to the mechanic... that I would not keep a car that required me to have a regular visits.

Acura makes it money on that MID and the regular interval maintenance. They seem to like the people that do everything that they suggest. So in a way the dealership is like going to a strip club. The more you pay the more attention you get and they better your experience is. Think about that for a moment.. I have seen it before... if they know you and you go there often and spend good money with them they bend over backwards for you...

Scribesoft

Hi n2siast - I have an '05 6MT TL.. I do not seem to have a tough time with tourque steer 95% of the time.. The other 5% is when I'm being an idiot. It's not too bad with a full pedal mash going straight...

We have a hairpin curve in the road about 1.5 miles from my house.. If I take that corner as fast as the car will let me WITH VSA ON, it's an absolute dream (keeps herself planted and lets me crank around the corner with confidence).. Everytime I do that, I laugh my balls off in the car and am reminded that I made a good purchase. I have tried that without the VSA on and I almost crapped my pants.. the car tried to pull me right into the bushes..

Here's my take on the TL (handling vs. TQ Steer)

When taking off WOT from a light - Make sure VSA is off,.. yes, you will have some initial TS.. and the wheel will also pull slightly when you slam it into 2nd..

When doing some "spirited" driving on back roads with lots of corners, I would personally recommend leaving the VSA ON... I have experienced no degredation in drivability/handling with VSA on in these circumstances. With VSA OFF at high speed in corners, it gets a little scary... but that's just me

If VSA is ON when trying to race from a light, you will notice a huge lack of power (although the TS will be reduced)

Basically = straight line - VSA off......... Tons of corners - VSA on. That combination gives me the most stability and control.... Others may do it differently... just my

mickey3c

Regardless of VSA your tires can lose grip and VSA cannot always to be able to make adjustments for you. This is especially going around turns etc. I'd be careful...

need4spd

You know what, I am changing my tune with the 06 Accord, it is now the ugly sister that is going through puberty

See new images below (new rear treatment and lower front facia):





Link -2006 Honda Accord Gallery

Kinda of looks like a big 2006 Civic at first glance

1sweetTL

Not that bad. Unless your gonna go "Ricky Racer" on everybody you see, I don't think it is that big of a deal.
If you were considering the KIA, I am to assume you weren't planning to go driving around town racing everybody you pull up to.

The TL has fantastic handling and if you a great driver, your driving skills should offset any minor imperfections (like torque steer issues)

Think this out carefully, it is a big purchase.
Drive the TL and while doing so, pay attention to details.
Then go drive the accord again, if style doesn't matter and the drive feels the same to you save yourself the $.

Like I said b-4 your user name : N2siast tells me you will end up in a TL.
Good luck.

1sweetTL

Yea.... it's not bad looking.
But IMO its not as hot as the TL.
If I couldn't afford the difference I'd by the Accord.

need4spd

I agree, the TL is the better looker, but the Accord got that much closer.

I would still take the TL over the accord, but they upped the accord, cant' wait to see the TL refresh next year if this is what they did to the ugly accord.

Scribesoft

I agree with you. That why I said "as fast as the car will let me" (meaning - as fast as I feel fully planted on dry pavement in my TL on that specific corner - not as fast as the car will go in general)... I could push it further, but then we'd both end up on the bushes. I've slowly worked my way up on that corner over the pat 4 months.... and generally go around is very slowly, but on nice dry, sunny days, I have incrementally brought it up to speed in a way that I feel comfortable. I have a good fast, but not too fast speed I use around it about 10% of the time (the other 90% I just take it slow) with which I feel comfortable and which allows me to put the suspension through it's paces.

VSA is not the full answer to safety, but I feel it definately helps with curvy roads.

EZZ

Safety systems intrude way earlier than the limit of the car...at least that is my experience. That is why the Lexus VDIM is being hammered by critics. Its probably one of the better safety systems out there and lets you even drift a little but take a look at its handling capabilities on paper and its a little disappointing...especially compared to the class leaders such as BMW.

Scribesoft

That's probably true and I wouldn't dispute it as I don't know enough about other manuf's stability/traction control systems.

I'm just saying that when I take that specific corner in my powerful FWD TL with the VSA OFF, it gets a little squirrly (sp?) and wants to go in a straight line right above a certain speed. When I take it with VSA ON, I feel much more confident (it doesn't try and go straight, it allows me to follow my line around the corner). I know there may be some performance degredation (I don't feel it on that corner - in my experience, it's seamless), but I'd rather have that and take the corner w/ more confidence.

I take this corner every day and have tried varying speeds, VSA ON, VSA OFF and have become quite intimate with how the TL attacks that corner. I'm not a race car driver and do not go into the corner at race car speeds (that's why I said "spirited", not "crazy speeds") - but sometimes I go in a little faster, and in my personal experience, I can take it at a higher speed with more confidence with the VSA ON...

It could also be in my head..

Scribesoft

I just realized that I've gone off on a tangent with VSA - this thread is about Accord vs. TL.. Sorry about that.. I'll put it to rest. Me =

I actually think Honda did a great job with the redesign of the accord. I hated the back-end of the last model. In fact we chose a Camry SE rather than an Accord based partly on aesthetics when we bought my wife's car.

The new taillights look terrific, the new front bumper looks better. I still prefer the look of the TL over it. The ass end of the TL, IMO, is the most beautiful part of the car.

TonyCD

Nobody seems to have directly addressed this question, so...

I have no personal experience whatsoever, so I'll merely summarize what everybody else reports. The automatic TL has very little torque steer at all. The 6-speed has some, though less than a Maxima or Altima, when accelerating in corners. Critics have dinged it for this, so Acura has responded for '06 with an electronic system for 6-speed versions, which basically reduces the power if it senses torque steer occurring in corners.

SlayerGTR

the accord is a step down from the TL. Reason why the TL costs 5-10k more OTD.

jcondon

Today I came out of the store and saw a new Black 2006 Accord coupe next to my 04 Black TL.

I didn't think it was ugly at all. I like the style of the TL better but, its far from ugly. I like the newer Accord styling better then the last model.

Didn't care for the wheels / covers. I think it was the base model (no letters on the back at all and didn't have time to check it out).

I have the AUTO and my 2000 Accord had more torque steer then this car. Obviously if you turn off the VSA......

First time I did that at a light on the parkway and gunned it I had to let off a bit or I would have hit the guard rail.

But, with it on and decent tires (Nero Zero) even in the rain if you aren't stupid it handles more then fine.

My 2000 Accord LX-V6 (4 door) had less squeeks but, I like the interior even with the few squeaks I haven't fixed yet a TON better.

Heated leather seats. Enough said.

For 3 or 4K I thought the TL was worth it vs a loaded Accord v6.

But, if you like the way the new Accord looks and drives I don't think you can go wrong with it.

DLOMAC

You say that now. The key is not having to hope that is not an old car or beat-up. I've had a Honda loaner for warranty service and it was no special feeling.

C'mon man. Not everyone has the time. I, for one, have twins and while every now and then it is fun to bask in glow of a nice car and wet up the 5 years olds, it is unfortuately far from the norm. Not to mention, try washing in an NE Ohio winter. Unlimited free car washes are very low risk and great. Actually equates to $40 - $60 a month in my pocket.

For $27K or $30K, that is being too gentle. The dealer to do a bit more. I'm sure that some dealers solely specialize in a good deal knowing that you could take your car elswhere for service. But, you are paying good money and appreciation should be shown when you walk in the door as well as down the road. While my wifes car was being serviced, the Lexus dealership gave us (4) movie passes and dropped us off at the movies only to go in and buy the refreshments. Another time, my wife elected to drive off with their big SUV (which, by the way, did not lead to a fun discussion that evening I might add--17 mpg, ha). This is far and away tops but ask about the post close perks before even talking car price. While Acura has not approached that level of pampering, it can still be very satisfying and well worth the added $.

mark 3M bra man

Sorry, but the Accord is still the uglier sister. I love the styling of the TL. Afterall, that is one of the reasons why I bought it over the Accord.

6MTPlease

03CoupeV6,

Our posts suggest a problem with the anecdotal stories that pass for evidence in forums like this. We both have experience with both the Honda and the Acura brands, but our experiences have been opposite.

I've owned 5 Hondas since '86 (86 CRX, 87 Civic, 93 del Sol, 96 Accord, 03 Accord). The quality of these cars has progressively deteriorated. The CRX had no problems--zero--after 7 years and 100,000 miles. The 96 Accord needed ps pumps and front rotors every year for six years and had to be repainted due to a primer checking. The 03 Accord was a mess, and I dumped it in trade just to get rid of it. These experiences have led me to swear off Honda-badged cars.

I've owned 3 Acuras so far (00 TL, 04 MDX, 05 TL). I know they're still Hondas, but the 00 TL was nearly perfect--original tranny even. The MDX has been great, but it's too soon to tell about the 05 TL. I nearly didn't get the TL simply because of my recent experience with Hondas, but my other Acuras drew me back. However, if I have problems with this TL, that will be it for me. Time to try something else. Regardless, I won't be in a Honda showroom anytime soon.

But all this means nothing. It's just my experience. You have to look up the data, and in it, yes, Honda AND Acura are slipping. There's no doubt about it.

6MTPlease

But I must also admit that if I could lose the backseat, I'd be in an S2000 in a second. Desire always trumps common sense.

MR1

And this is the whole point in a nutshell!

We have to somewhat balance the emotion with a little common sense.