Manual Transmission

Lap time records in Australia.


Adelaide International Circuit
Adelaide, Australia
2.25 Miles


2007 Acura TL Type-S (6M) 2:14.4 2:09.7

2007 Infiniti G35 Sport Sedan (6M) 2:15.2 2:11.1

2003 Nissan 350Z Track (6M) 2:15.3 2:11.7

2004 Mazda RX-8 (6M) 2:16.8 2:12.3

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2003 Nissan Altima 3.5SE (5M) 2:21.3 2:16.8 (36th place)

2002 Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V (6M) 2:22.3 2:16.9 (41st place)

2003 Nissan Altima 3.5SE (4A) 2:24.3 2:19.4 (54th place)



Get PWNed....... PWNNNNNnnnn.....



http://www.car-videos.net/performance/track.asp?track=1


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iforyou

iTrader: (1)

wow, impressive, who's the driver, any idea??

Manual Transmission

Not sure who drove them, but will let you know if I find out.

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iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Thanks man. Nonetheless that's awesome. It would even be better if they have the time for IS350 and 335i.

juruki

iTrader: (2)

Wow same time as the Subaru STI, thats impressive.
There was another test and the TL owned a IS350 and the new G35 on a track by more than 2 seconds.

Manual Transmission

No problem. Yeah I've been feeling the same as you. I've been searching hard to see if I can find the laptimes for the 335i in the same track but not available so far. Based on the impressions I've been getting with the 335i and how closely it compares to the '07 G35 Sport I wouldn't be surprised if the 335i's get also pwned by TL Type-S 6MT in this track. We know already that the Type-S 6MT PWNs the '07 G35 by 2 full seconds in Willow Springs International Circuit (has less turns) too. I wouldn't be surprised if the TL Type-S beats the G35 by good fat 3+ seconds in Street of Willow Springs (more curves).

The IS350 would also be the easy target. This car as we know suffers in the hard corners and just can't keep up with the Type-S. Plus having only Auto tranny on the IS350 holds back in performance as well.

Manual Transmission

Yes, impressive indeed, both having virtually identical lap times. A while back I came across some Honda racing thread and some folks were speaking highly of the TL Type-S. It was tested by one of the race tracks and had very comparable lap times as the Honda S2000.

Yea the 2 second lead on the Type-S you're referring to is the Willow Springs International Raceway. That was a nice one too. That was an attention getter for a lot of people.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

In Best Motoring, they had a race of 335i vs Legacy B4 vs G35 6MT. It was in wet condition though, and the 335i got pwned. But I'm sure someone will say Best Motoring is biased or something similar to that.

I saw a white TL-S the other day, man, it looks so much better in person.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I just watched the Best Motoring again, all of the cars were AT, except for the Legacy.

G35: 1:15.10
335i: 1:14.95
IS350: 1:15.407
Legacy: 1:15.00

Give it one more lap and the 335i would have won.

FiveLiterCheater

Just wait till DaveB sees this! Nothing can be better than the G!!!

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol, no man, he prefers the "driving dynamics" of RWD, he doesn't care about lap times.

Costco

FWD ftw!

F23A4

Maybe the S2000 would have performed better with a FWD layout.

That said, I would need more test info before asserting the TL-S' dominance over the E90, G35 or any of the other vehicles in this segment. Sidenote: the notion that the TL-S will beat the 335i is a pipedream...keyword: pipe (as in 'on the').

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Still, just the fact that the TL-S, which is down some hp and torque on the G35, is only FWD, and has a far from ideal weight distribution, is able to keep up with the G35 is a testament to the fact that the TL-S is very well tuned.

Even you can't deny the fact that the TL-S surpassing the G35 on a track is surprising.

F23A4

You still need to gather all the facts surrounding those track runs.

As for the TL-S, it is clearly the best overall performing FWD sports sedan for the money, besting the likes of the Altima 3.5SE, Maxima 3.5SE (pre-09 for now), ES350, Toyota Camry V6 and Honda Accord V6.

That said, for every test where the TL-S edges the [insert IS350, G35, 335, RS4, M5 counterpart here], there are at least two or more similar comparos where it is bested by its counterparts as well. This is one of the reasons why I like comparos such as Road and Track's which tests cars head to head under the same conditions.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

While I agree, it is still surprising to see how competitive the TL-S remains despite being down on power and only being FWD. And even when the RWD competition edges out the TL-S, it is seldom by much.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Well I'm sure the S2000 is more fun to drive Driven one, and it was a joy!

The bottom line is, you simply can't judge a car's actual performance based on drivetrain layout and engine output.

The problem with the Road and Track's comparison is that, who's the driver, or driverS? Are they professional drivers? Drivers that have years of racing experience with race cars?

The test where the TL-S pwned the others are done by Tsuchiya. I don't think we need to discuss how good a driver he is right? We should have heard all about him, especially if you are into Japanese import cars and/or drifting. May be it takes a professional driver to bring out the best of these sports cars, but I think that's the only fair way to compare performance of cars.

FiveLiterCheater

I'd actually think Tsuchiya would suck at driving TL-S since he would be more biased, and even more skilled with RWD. Still managed to beat out the competition.

I had a chance to drive my friends IS250 (RWD) yesterday and even though its not the 350, that thing FELT like a boat and handled like one as well. I also drove the C32 AMG at carmax and wow, I felt like I should navigating a tank instead of driving a car. You can FEEL the weight of that car once you put it in "D" and start rolling off the lot.

Thats what I like about the TL, it doesn't feel anywhere close to 3,500lbs when you're driving it.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I was just playing GT5 Prologue and was driving the SL55 AMG, man does that thing fly on the straight..but when it comes to braking and turning....it's hopeless.....

Costco

The point is, look at what Honda has done when they go the RWD route - they create the NSX and the S2000. Yes, they are niche cars essentially, the NSX at least.... but Honda creates some amazing RWD vehicles. The FWD is a compromise more than anything. Yeah it works in the TL-S and the CTR but when it comes down to it, it's about the packaging and the lower cost.

In one sentence - if Honda/Acura can engineer FWD cars that keep up with or even outperform and be just as fun or even more fun to drive as RWD competitors, imagine what they could do if they developed more RWD cars.

The point is, we imagine all day, make up rumors about the next TL or TSX or RL being RWD to give ourselves hope but we're left with blue balls in the end. So we move on.... myself included. Some of us realize that its physically and financially impossible for Honda to branch out and develop a bunch of RWD platforms alongside their FWD platforms so we simply give up hope.

One thing is for sure though. The 3G TL-S has impressed me beyond all expectations (the interior is VERY nice, love the seats) and has caught my attention as an option should I ever go back to entry-lux sport sedans. But I still can't help but wonder.....

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

And also the ITR, ATR

Yea, I agree, it's almost as if Honda isn't even trying at all to keep up with the others. If they try harder (as in going RWD), then other brands will be in deep trouble I'd imagine.

FiveLiterCheater

They're obviously trying if the TL-S is matching and beating the competition around the track....they're just not following the competition.

The next gen TL is pretty confirmed to have SH-AWD though.....

TLyoung'un

damn... tie with the Sti wow..

juruki

iTrader: (2)

LOL i was gonna say the same thing.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol I was just kidding man, and they did a very decent job!

Manual Transmission

Nevermind RS4, the TL Type-S 6MT has even better lateral G road holding than the 2008 Audi S5 Coupe.

Manual Transmission

Seldom, yes, that's a good word. Actually, very seldom. The only time when the 335i will have the advantage is in the tracks with less turns and high speed straightaways. Tracks with more complex turns, the 335i will fall back. Good post though. Your comments are well agreed.

Manual Transmission

Very well said.

Very well said. I don't really like Road and Track. Often time they don't really know how to test the car to its limit when actually on the road. Yes, Tsuchiya would be the better person to really put the cars into tests. The Willow Springs International Raceway was very, very good test. Same driver with obtaining best lap times for each car in the same track with same weather condition.





JJaber06, I am really impressed with your comments. Funny you should say that. I was going to bring that up but you just made my day. Yep, Tsuchiya certainly didn't get the best out of the TL. Tsuchiya wasn't told that the TL is a FWD. As you can see in the video he "drove like" RWD. He does drive really good with the RWD cars. If he spent more time and practicing the FWD TL Type-S he would've gotten even better lap times on the TL. Nice one, JJaber06.

Manual Transmission

Street of Willow Springs race track
Rosamond, CA USA
1.8 miles

This video, thanks to iforyou for finding it.

Acura TL Type-S 6MT - http://www.xanga.com/TL_Type_S Lap time: 1:32.88 :thumbup:


Lexus LS 460L (380HP 8 Speed AT RWD) - http://www.revver.com/video/355309/u...ls460l-2-of-4/ Lap time: 1:38.31


6 second pwnage in the 1.8 mile track.



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Manual Transmission

Even Road&Track stated the following about the Acura TL Type-S 6MT.

"Torque steer is present when mashing the throttle pedal coming out of turns, but it’s so slight, it’s hardly an issue. Turn-in response is crisp and body roll is minimal. Credit here goes to the Acura’s rigid body, quick steering response, tuned suspension system — upper and lower A-arms up front and a multilink setup at the rear — and a helical gear-type limited-slip diff that’s standard fare on 6-speed manual transmission models. Around the 200-ft. skidpad, the Type-S outperforms many rear-drive cars, including the two here (referring to the '07 G35 Sport 6MT & IS350)."


http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=4460


Even though I don't like Road&Track they still scored the Type-S 6MT higher than the G35. The G35 is the last of the 3.



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Manual Transmission

Are you guys ready for this?


Enjoy.



'08 Acura TL Type-S 6MT
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.93 g

'08 Dodge Charger SRT-8 (425 bhp @ 6200 rpm; Top speed: 173 mph)
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.90 g

'08 BMW 335i 6MT
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.89 g

'08 Infiniti G35 Sport 6MT
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.87 g

'08 Lexus IS350
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad*: 0.85 g
(*Stability-control-inhibited)


http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...type_s_feature



I told you so. This data further explains why the TL Type-S 6MT obtaining better lap times in the road course tracks. Yes, it rapes the Nissan 350Z as well, both the older and the new current gen. You need a *Nismo* super-tuned 350Z to barely beat the TL Type-S 6MT in the lateral G numbers. You might as well throw in an 2008 Audi S5 Coupe which puts out 0.91g.



End of story.


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Costco

^^^All of that says absolutely NOTHING about the fun to drive factor. Never drove a 3G TL-S so I'm not saying anything about its fun to drive factor, but in the end people care a lot more about how a car drives than what it puts down in numbers.

Manual Transmission

^^ Yes it DOES have something to do with the handling. The Road Holding lateral performance indicate how well the car can handle in cornering. Fun driving factor comes into play here. We also know how firm and responsive the Type-S 6MT rides. It's has some good way of getting an idea how the car performs in handling application.

Dave_B

Different drivers and different days. Yeah, that sounds like a good comparison test to prove which cars are better

Costco

WRONG. The road holding is literally that.... the road holding capability of the vehicle. How well the car maintains a steady foothold so to speak with the road before wheel spin/loss of grip. Absolutely NOTHING to do with the fun to drive factor. I didn't mention handling AT ALL in my post, although road holding is a small indicator of how well a car handles, but not exactly the most reliable.

And as for the test for how well a car handles in cornering, thats called the slalom.

We've all seen the GT-R's lateral G and slalom numbers... but not many people think it'll be fun to drive, and for a good reason.

Dave_B

Again, different days, different drivers. Here's a legit test done on the same day between the TLS and G35. http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/d...d/02073car.pdf

TLS
0-60 5.7
1/4 mile 14.3@100
0-120mph 20.6 seconds
60-0 117'
80-0 214'
Lateral Gs 0.91
Slalom 66.0mph

G35
0-60 5.4
1/4 mile 13.8@102
0-120mph 19.5 seconds
60-0 120'
80-0 208'
Lateral Gs 0.88
Slalom 65.5mph

In terms of handling, that's about as even as it gets. In terms on acceleration, the TLS and getting smoked, especially above 80mph. Additionally, the FWD car's tend to post better lateral Gs.

Costco

Oh and fun to drive factor is sort of relative.... I love driving a car that handles like its on rails, regardless of drivetrain layout. But I've always felt that FWD is best applied in a small hatchback rather than a large, powerful sedan. I've driven and ridden in a JCW Mini Cooper S, heavily modded EG/EK hatchbacks with swapped engines of all sorts, (irresponsibly) on the road and on the track, and in general they handle VERY well. Its also really fun to just mash the throttle and turn the wheel into opposite lock....

nova_G

Very impressive for the TL-S. I was undecided at one point between the G35 and the TL-S but ended up going with the G35. Two very comparable cars and each has its own characteristics.

F23A4

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

That's why they posted the comparison test with the 3 cars at Willow Springs in which they were tested by the same well known, skilled professional driver, same weather condition, same day, same track. And I don't know what can make it more fair.