Acura Petition
#41
Senior Moderator
It could have been a Rolls-Royce
Originally Posted by boltjames
If you folks go through with your plan to petition Acura on fixing so-called "issues", I'm going to create a petition to Acura to leave the car alone as it's perfect as it is.
I am truly sorry that a fraction of the 40,000+ TL owners tend to visit here and whine about the unacceptable characteristics of the car, but truth be told the picture that you're painting of the TL being some "buggy" vehicle is unfair, untrue, and is misleading to those who aren't getting 6+ month old TL's like you've got.
The car is perfect. You bought very early in the process and knew that you'd have some tweaks you'd have to live through. Deal with it. Or better, take it back to the dealer as it's their responsibility to make you happy. They're Acura. They'll do the right thing.
I am truly sorry that a fraction of the 40,000+ TL owners tend to visit here and whine about the unacceptable characteristics of the car, but truth be told the picture that you're painting of the TL being some "buggy" vehicle is unfair, untrue, and is misleading to those who aren't getting 6+ month old TL's like you've got.
The car is perfect. You bought very early in the process and knew that you'd have some tweaks you'd have to live through. Deal with it. Or better, take it back to the dealer as it's their responsibility to make you happy. They're Acura. They'll do the right thing.
I am one of the most obssesive, nit-picky perfectionists around. I sound off when I am not pleased. With my previous, older car- I have been known to run it through the car wash six (6) times because the wheels weren't clean to my liking and I paid extra for wheel cleaning. But, I must report the following:
I took delivery of my TL one week ago. I told the dealer not to touch it but to call me when it came in. I responded to the dealer and got my car with the plastic still on it. I took a lamb's wool mit with me and gave it to the detail man telling him: "hand wash only with this and NO polish". I took the car home and put it in the garage and began to detail it. 9 and 1/2 hours later, I had been all over, under, and through the TL with this result.
It has ZERO defects. It doesn't vibrate or rattle. Everything works. When I thought it didn't, it was because I was doing something wrong or had not read the manual. I have yet to find a blemish, a ding, a paint run, a grease dollup, a nick, a scratch.... NADDA! I couldn't have expected more of a $350,000 Rolls-Royce. It drives like a dream. It is dead silent. It is quick. It smells like a tack shop (leather), and is intuitive and operator friendly. On top of all that, it is a work of art sitting still just to look at it. I say this after polishing the underside of the TL and the inside of the wheels that no one ever sees. It has excellent insurance ratings and gets good gas mileage. It's 0-60 and quarter mile times are a bit better than a 1969 Hemi Road Runner or 440 Magnum. It has six (6) audio sources including one that can't be had on any other automobile including a Rolls-Royce M-B Maybach: DVD-Audio.
Like anything else, when you produce 45,000 of these, they can't all be 100% perfect. But mine is and I needed to tell you all that.
XP
#42
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Originally Posted by xpditor42
James:
I am one of the most obssesive, nit-picky perfectionists around. I sound off when I am not pleased. With my previous, older car- I have been known to run it through the car wash six (6) times because the wheels weren't clean to my liking and I paid extra for wheel cleaning. But, I must report the following:
I took delivery of my TL one week ago. I told the dealer not to touch it but to call me when it came in. I responded to the dealer and got my car with the plastic still on it. I took a lamb's wool mit with me and gave it to the detail man telling him: "hand wash only with this and NO polish". I took the car home and put it in the garage and began to detail it. 9 and 1/2 hours later, I had been all over, under, and through the TL with this result.
It has ZERO defects. It doesn't vibrate or rattle. Everything works. When I thought it didn't, it was because I was doing something wrong or had not read the manual. I have yet to find a blemish, a ding, a paint run, a grease dollup, a nick, a scratch.... NADDA! I couldn't have expected more of a $350,000 Rolls-Royce. It drives like a dream. It is dead silent. It is quick. It smells like a tack shop (leather), and is intuitive and operator friendly. On top of all that, it is a work of art sitting still just to look at it. I say this after polishing the underside of the TL and the inside of the wheels that no one ever sees. It has excellent insurance ratings and gets good gas mileage. It's 0-60 and quarter mile times are a bit better than a 1969 Hemi Road Runner or 440 Magnum. It has six (6) audio sources including one that can't be had on any other automobile including a Rolls-Royce M-B Maybach: DVD-Audio.
Like anything else, when you produce 45,000 of these, they can't all be 100% perfect. But mine is and I needed to tell you all that.
XP
I am one of the most obssesive, nit-picky perfectionists around. I sound off when I am not pleased. With my previous, older car- I have been known to run it through the car wash six (6) times because the wheels weren't clean to my liking and I paid extra for wheel cleaning. But, I must report the following:
I took delivery of my TL one week ago. I told the dealer not to touch it but to call me when it came in. I responded to the dealer and got my car with the plastic still on it. I took a lamb's wool mit with me and gave it to the detail man telling him: "hand wash only with this and NO polish". I took the car home and put it in the garage and began to detail it. 9 and 1/2 hours later, I had been all over, under, and through the TL with this result.
It has ZERO defects. It doesn't vibrate or rattle. Everything works. When I thought it didn't, it was because I was doing something wrong or had not read the manual. I have yet to find a blemish, a ding, a paint run, a grease dollup, a nick, a scratch.... NADDA! I couldn't have expected more of a $350,000 Rolls-Royce. It drives like a dream. It is dead silent. It is quick. It smells like a tack shop (leather), and is intuitive and operator friendly. On top of all that, it is a work of art sitting still just to look at it. I say this after polishing the underside of the TL and the inside of the wheels that no one ever sees. It has excellent insurance ratings and gets good gas mileage. It's 0-60 and quarter mile times are a bit better than a 1969 Hemi Road Runner or 440 Magnum. It has six (6) audio sources including one that can't be had on any other automobile including a Rolls-Royce M-B Maybach: DVD-Audio.
Like anything else, when you produce 45,000 of these, they can't all be 100% perfect. But mine is and I needed to tell you all that.
XP
It's a fantastic car. I've owned so many others.....this one is just special. I take her out every night at about 11:30 to go get a large decaf iced with creme and two Splenda's at the not-so-local Dunkin' Donuts. I park right under my office just so I can stare at her under the window. She handles like a dream, the navi is a life saver, and the XM radio / CD sounds so good I've completely stopped listening to AM/FM.
All in all, it's a phenomenal car. My first lease and it figures that I'll want to keep it, balloon and all
BJ
#43
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Originally Posted by dq1522
Just a quick note. I actually work on the assembly line at Honda of America where we build the 2 and 4 door accords and the acura tl. The Acura TL is only built in this plant it is not built anywhere else. Having worked on the line and also buying an Acura I can assure you that Honda builds one on the highest quality cars. Sure things happen all the time like a screw dropped under the carpet causing a rattle or vibration I know we all want our car to be perfect but the reality is things happen when you are doing a process every 57 seconds and a car is completely assembled in 2 hours. But overall Honda has strick policy on the quality and they can not watch the workers all the time. On the line things are checked and rechecked to assure quality and I am happy that I own an Acura
#44
Senior Moderator
It's getting warm in here
Originally Posted by Acurich
From what I've experienced or read, the problems folks are complaining most about (we'll leave aside scratched rims from hitting the curb) are not failings of assembly, but rather design, materials, or insufficient development testing before Job 1, e.g. airbag retainer clips hitting metal, inadequate adhesive on the headliner retainers, noise from headliner clips, peeling paint, flatspotting tires.
I'm trying to find a reason that my TL doesn't have these noises that others have been plagued with. In order to fully explore this possibility, we should have everyone drive their new TL's to my place in Ft. Lauderdale so that we can test and compare. I'll throw some shrimps on the barbie. You bring the beer.
XP
#45
Suzuka Master
Originally Posted by boltjames
Actually, that's what I'm trying to do.
We need to put an end to the constant bitching about these insignificant details....it's like a race for someone to decry "whoo hooo I found the next big problem look at me look at me!".
The TL is a perfect car. Period.
We need to put an end to the constant bitching about these insignificant details....it's like a race for someone to decry "whoo hooo I found the next big problem look at me look at me!".
The TL is a perfect car. Period.
#46
Senior Moderator
I am of the belief that there are few generalized problems on the TL, and I believe I represent the silent (OK, I am not silent, but anyway...) majority who have minor or no issues with their TL. This is not to minimize anyone who's got an issue--If I had issues, especially like need4spd's and others, I'd want to vent or at least compare. That's one reason the site is interesting and enjoyable--it alerts me as to what to look for on my car.
With that said, I don't believe that a petition is the way to go here. The participation would likely be spotty and Acura is selling so many of these that they frankly don't give a shit what we think anyway. The best approach is to keep calling ACS because that is apparently how Acura judges whether there is a generalized problem with TLs
Oh yeah, to the guy who dissed Ohio.... :thefinger You must be from West Virginia.
With that said, I don't believe that a petition is the way to go here. The participation would likely be spotty and Acura is selling so many of these that they frankly don't give a shit what we think anyway. The best approach is to keep calling ACS because that is apparently how Acura judges whether there is a generalized problem with TLs
Oh yeah, to the guy who dissed Ohio.... :thefinger You must be from West Virginia.
#47
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Originally Posted by xpditor42
Since there is so much man-made material (read: plastic) in all new cars, I am wondering if many of the rattles or squeak problems might not be attributable to the cold weather in the northern areas. Do two pieces of cold plastic make more noise than warm ones? I suspect that is true. As plastic cools, it becomes less flexible and also shrinks thus changing gaps between parts.
I'm trying to find a reason that my TL doesn't have these noises that others have been plagued with. In order to fully explore this possibility, we should have everyone drive their new TL's to my place in Ft. Lauderdale so that we can test and compare. I'll throw some shrimps on the barbie. You bring the beer.
XP
I'm trying to find a reason that my TL doesn't have these noises that others have been plagued with. In order to fully explore this possibility, we should have everyone drive their new TL's to my place in Ft. Lauderdale so that we can test and compare. I'll throw some shrimps on the barbie. You bring the beer.
XP
Talk to you soon and enjoy your new toy.
Cypwood,
Don
(AKA: Juan Coffee )
#48
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by boltjames
All in all, it's a phenomenal car. My first lease and it figures that I'll want to keep it, balloon and all
But in the end I was lured to another new car, and afterwards I was glad. My attitude is, you only live once and there are lots of cars I want to drive. Truthfully, if I were rich I'd probably lease cars for one year (yes, they have one year leases, and yes, they are outrageously expensive).
So although you feel this way now, bolt, and may even still feel this way towards the end of the lease, when all is said and done and you're driving another (hopefully excellent) new car, if you're like me you'll enjoy the experience of moving on as much as you enjoyed the TL while you had it.
Then again, leasing is financially stupid and you've got kids.
#49
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by KeithL
...the interior quality sucks...
#50
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Originally Posted by dq1522
Just a quick note. I actually work on the assembly line at Honda of America where we build the 2 and 4 door accords and the acura tl. The Acura TL is only built in this plant it is not built anywhere else. Having worked on the line and also buying an Acura I can assure you that Honda builds one on the highest quality cars. Sure things happen all the time like a screw dropped under the carpet causing a rattle or vibration I know we all want our car to be perfect but the reality is things happen when you are doing a process every 57 seconds and a car is completely assembled in 2 hours. But overall Honda has strick policy on the quality and they can not watch the workers all the time. On the line things are checked and rechecked to assure quality and I am happy that I own an Acura
Second, I for one have a zero defect vehicle to date, if you'll excuse the EL-42's flatspotting when cold. No, I'm not excusing Acura on the EL-42 issue and I'll be shocked if this car is sold with EL-42's in the 2005 model year.
Lastly, if you don't think that American Honda engineers and quality control employees aren't lurking on this website, wake up and smell the coffee!
I've been in Hondas for 20 years, and this car is on par with other Hondas that I've owned. FWIW, the best I've ever owned was a Japanese-made 1994 Accord EX-L. That car never had warranty service.
#51
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Originally Posted by TLGator
Then again, leasing is financially stupid and you've got kids.
So to me, as long as I'm within milage and service limits (as with this TL) I'm paying the same thing to drive a brand new car for the same monthly payment. I wasn't seeing any 'residual value income' as I'd never make it to the end of Year 5 anyway.
You are correct.....after having fun with the TL I am most likely going to move to a 5-Series BMW or E Benz unless the new RL is universally acclaimed, in which case, I'll keep the 15+ year Honda/Acura streak alive.
I am dying to try a Euro car, though.
BJ
#52
Three Wheelin'
bolt - No question leasing is not quite as stupid as buying and then selling while you're still upside down. What I meant was that leasing is financially "stupid" in general - it's a luxury way of owning a car, which is fine for those of us (including you, evidently) who are willing to pay to be in a new car every 3 years or so. But most of my friends with kids just don't have that kind of dough - they're saving for college, etc. - so they are driving their cars 8-10 years. Keeping them well-maintained, of course. And living their car fantasies vicariously through me.
#53
After reading all the posts here, I came up with one thought (hear me out). Most of the TL buyers are people that are probably in mid to upper income range (guess from car price). And, generally speaking, most of are probably overly anal about details. For example, someone buying a hyundai isn't going to bitch about the quality of the interior because 1) they expect the car to be cheap and 2) they don't really care and 3) they probably aren't overly critical about their cars.
So, back on this thought, could some of us be overly critical about the car and that is feeding our emotions towards finding (or searching) every nit picking flaws? For example, the vibration thing for most probably isn't real, but if you hold the steering wheel hard and long enough and you have absolute silence, you'll feel (or imagine to feel) the vibration and therefore the forum was right all along. Therefore, you then become one of the vibration guys and bitch about what poor quality Acura slapped together. This is same as some people making them selves ill by thinking they are ill.
And then there are those others that bitch about the small things (don't like the blue light, the gap in dash is too wide, the rims scratch easily, the tires spin too easily, etc...). These folks could easily be ignored, but just get tired of hearing them.
Finally, I do belive that there are some cars with real problems. This fits in statistical average (I get a good car, some one else must have a bad car), but the percent of those are probably still very small if Acura quality is still in check.
My thought is still the same. The negative reviews of the car, although small in population, is louder in this forum than the positives. This bias unfairly directs the new and potential TL owners into the above categories ("someone mentioned the shake so therefore my car must shake also"). Although humanly impossible, we all need to just have our own unbiased opinions about the car and use this forum to net work the solutions and not turn this into a bitch and moan session. Sorry for the long post and hope there is a point in there somewhere for the readers.
So, back on this thought, could some of us be overly critical about the car and that is feeding our emotions towards finding (or searching) every nit picking flaws? For example, the vibration thing for most probably isn't real, but if you hold the steering wheel hard and long enough and you have absolute silence, you'll feel (or imagine to feel) the vibration and therefore the forum was right all along. Therefore, you then become one of the vibration guys and bitch about what poor quality Acura slapped together. This is same as some people making them selves ill by thinking they are ill.
And then there are those others that bitch about the small things (don't like the blue light, the gap in dash is too wide, the rims scratch easily, the tires spin too easily, etc...). These folks could easily be ignored, but just get tired of hearing them.
Finally, I do belive that there are some cars with real problems. This fits in statistical average (I get a good car, some one else must have a bad car), but the percent of those are probably still very small if Acura quality is still in check.
My thought is still the same. The negative reviews of the car, although small in population, is louder in this forum than the positives. This bias unfairly directs the new and potential TL owners into the above categories ("someone mentioned the shake so therefore my car must shake also"). Although humanly impossible, we all need to just have our own unbiased opinions about the car and use this forum to net work the solutions and not turn this into a bitch and moan session. Sorry for the long post and hope there is a point in there somewhere for the readers.
#54
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Thanks for the vote of confidence for the American assembly line worker. I realize that the problems are design problems too but everyone has to know the first year of a new model change is difficult for every car manufacuturer and it takes a while to get the bugs out. And just a note I am a female.
#55
Senior Moderator
Are you one?
Originally Posted by dq1522
Thanks for the vote of confidence for the American assembly line worker. I realize that the problems are design problems too but everyone has to know the first year of a new model change is difficult for every car manufacuturer and it takes a while to get the bugs out. And just a note I am a female.
Are Hondas and Acuras made in the same factory? The same lines? Is there a difference in the quality of assembly between the two? The speed of production?
Are running changes made either to the assembly process or to the "just in time" componant parts and sub-assemblies made by others? IOW, are there mid-year adjustments based on feedback from the field? Changes, say, in an adhesive to anchor the headliner for example? Do the workers sometimes make suggestions which are then implimented to enhance build quality?
Lastly, as to the American assembly line worker: Americans vote with their pocket books and wallets. For some15-20 years, that vote has largely gone to Asia and Europe because of QUALITY issues. I don't think this is reflective of the worker so much as it is the policies of the manufacturer. It took Detroit a long time to understand this and I think they're just starting to get it.
I must admit that if the TL had been made in Japan, I would have been more confident in buying it and probably would have done so 4 months earlier. That attitude is based on my personal experience with Japanese cars vs. American built cars. I consider the TL to be an American car. So I worry about it. To me, it was a big factor and one I had to overcome to make my purchase decision.
XP
#56
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Originally Posted by Aegir
I'd sign that petition. I love my TL. It's awesome! If I had to buy another car today, it would be another TL.
On my last (and I mean last!) Ford car, I averaged about one recall every six months. These weren't for squeaks and rattles. They were for scary things like seatbelts failing, airbag sensors failing, and throttle cables sticking. That car lost 90% of its value in six years. Maybe that helps put things into perspective.
On my last (and I mean last!) Ford car, I averaged about one recall every six months. These weren't for squeaks and rattles. They were for scary things like seatbelts failing, airbag sensors failing, and throttle cables sticking. That car lost 90% of its value in six years. Maybe that helps put things into perspective.
#57
Senior Moderator
Oops! Sorry....
Originally Posted by dq1522
Thanks for the vote of confidence for the American assembly line worker. I realize that the problems are design problems too but everyone has to know the first year of a new model change is difficult for every car manufacuturer and it takes a while to get the bugs out. And just a note I am a female.
My TL is the first car made in any country that I have purchased or othewise acquired new, to be delivered to me without flaw. Nadda. No runs; no hits; no errors.
I find that amazing for a mass produced car with so many components and so many people working on it. I think Acura is nailing Quality Control. I'm sorry for the few people here who are having problems with their TLs.
"I, myself, cannot." -Hannibal Lector
#58
an Acura has-been
xpditor42 , see her first post in this thread for some answers:
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=12
dq1522 - I wish I had as good an experiance as xpditor42 did, however, most of mine were design flaws, but some were assembly and paint.
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=12
dq1522 - I wish I had as good an experiance as xpditor42 did, however, most of mine were design flaws, but some were assembly and paint.
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