Ferman

Ok guys,

Is the manual a lot faster than the auto? I mean, to 60 mph we're probably talking about .4 seconds faster for the 6 spd? What about to 100 mph? How much distance would manual put on the auto?

FH

direk_04TL

given that theyre the same engines but different gear ratios and an extra cog on the 6MT, the 6 would probably come out in front but would probably be a close one ... IMHO.

deandorsey

i dont think it would be that close

fureym

All these guys with the 6 speed think their so much faster. I have a auto with a CAI and 1" drop and my friend has a stock 6 speed and I beat him from a 0-100. now for your rebutals. it not the driver because he has been racing semi pro for 10 years so he has the driving ability. and if a CAI and 1"drop make that much of a difference than good for them, all im saying is dont beleave all the numbers that are out their. race an auto vs stick yourself and see how close they realy are.

te3point5

When you talk about manual versus auto, you have to take into account the driver. Unless you are really good at shifting, then I'd say its anyones race. Yeah, the 6 gears give a better gear ration, and the auto chooses its own shift points, But unless you can really shift and control the revs, I'd say it's be close.

flnsx

Well,

If anyone in South Florida wants to get together we can pin my Auto against your 6 speed. Lets find out....

E!ntertainment

where do you live?

Id have to take off the 19's and put the stock potenzas back on if we really want a true comparison.

J RIDE 81

I've heard rumors the auto will beat the manual. Wasn't there a thread a little while back?

EZZ

Driver's race. Its the 6mt's to win or lose. If the 6mt driver is really good, the 5at will not win.

E!ntertainment

I've heard rumores to that my cheap contour svt can beat my 6spd tl to. hmmm. NOT.

J RIDE 81

^--- Lol

donkeykang

How about people who know how to properly utilize sports shifter? I don't know how but I'm just wondering if it really helps or not...I mean of course going L to SS will give a much better start but I'm just wondering...

If there is one of you out there...TEACH ME PLEASE!!!

Thanks

ColStripe

I think the MT is highly overrated imo. Yes it's faster, but it's not a drastic difference. If it makes you feel better, go for it.

Aquineas

I have a hard time believing that my 5spd Auto is anywhere close to the 6spd manual... I live in Austin, Texas if anyone wants to find out, though. I'm pretty sure I know the conclusion already. I have a suspicion that Acura is holding back on the autos in order to preserve the transmissions, as evidenced by the fact that a couple people who've had the transmission recall (with the associated ECU reflash) done have remarked that their cars feel faster afterwards.

te3point5

the thing you need to realize is that other than the transmission, they are still the same engine, same displacement, same intake manifold, exhaust manifold, both dual cams. And true, the gear ratios are better in the manual, and the auto tranny adds a bit of weight, at the core, they are still the same engine. In a quarter mile, with good shifts and a good start, I'd guess the manual would take the auto by no more than a car length.

THe thing that most people are saying (as well as myself) are that the driver come into large part when racing (especially amateurs). Although you can't control the shifting points as well with an auto, the tranny will always shift smothly. Its not always the case with a manual, you could pop the cluth at the wrong time at the start, and not be able to catch up. you could miss one shift, and the auto could pull away.

THe point of my post is, being that they are the same engine, I find it hard to believe that a race could yield such different results. Given professional drivers, I would say the manual would easily take the auto, but again not by much.

ZQQM

I've driven a co-workers auto TL and he's driven my 6 speed and his comments were no way could he beat my TL. While his auto felt very quick and very smooth under full acceleration ( I totally launched it up to about 80 ) I don't think it was anywhere near my 6 speed.

I know that my TL is one of the strongest cars I've had in a while...... but you have to get to vtec land to fully enjoy. This car will light'em 1/2 way through 1st, bark into second, and chirp into third ( VSA off ). This car could use a shift light, it rev's very smoothly and is super quick to redline.

And I think the Brembo's are excellent. My last 2 Acuras were way "underbraked" from the factory. Both had added horsepower and the stock brakes sucked. These Brembos are pretty normal in everyday braking, but if you ever need the brakes in a real hard stop, you 'll appreciate the 4 piston calipers clamping force and ability to modulate. It easier to keep this car from its abs threshold than any car I ever owned.

6mtV6

I had a 5at 04 TL for a little over 4months before I traded it for a 6mt. The first thing I noticed about the 6mt is that it's faster. I'm still not finished with break-in. When I'm finished with break-in i'll write a more thorough report.

E!ntertainment

auto TL weights more the 6spd, check acura site. Also auto TL puts down something like 20-30 fwhp LESS than 6. Um no the 6spd TL driver would have to be a fool driving.

But for the auto drivers who just cant stand it, here ya go I'll throw you a bone.

Auto is faster.

caball88

even its the same engine the transmission is what puts the power to the ground. autos also have torque converters that have to translate the output from the engine first which robs the car of performance. so when you dyno a 5AT and a 6MT both in stock form the 6MT will put out more power to the ground then the auto. so given that and the manual being a lighter car with better gear ratios it is the faster car. it would be foolish for acura to make a 6MT and have it slower than its auto counter part. but like others have said it would be up to the manual driver, he has to be an amateur in order to lose. i'm not saying the 5AT is alot slower its certainly not faster than the manual.

PS the J32 engine in our cars are not dual cams its SOHC.

Curvebal33

How 'bout this, which driver is HAPPIER after sitting in bumper to bumper traffic for 2 hours? That's why I purchased my first AT car!

svtmike

As others have noted, the 6MT is lighter and has a less lossy drivetrain. That should make it faster since almost all else is effectively equal. This should surprise no one; it is very rare for the AT variant of a car offered with both to be faster than the MT variant.

6MT, 5AT, as long as you bought the transmission that's right for you, that's what really matters. In either form the TL is a good powerful gadget-lovers mid-size sport sedan at a great price.

Mike

JoeKr

Caball88,
Thank you for finally posting the best response based on factual (engineering) factors of the drivetrain differences.

BTW, I was at the Honda Technical Center in Marysville and was impressed with the interior of the Acura TL.

Regards,
JoeKr

cpurick

It's close, but I agree it's up to the 6MT driver.

6MT's lighter, it loses fewer ponies to the tranny and torque converter, it spends more time in the sweet spot of the power band, and a driver can usually hold gears closer to redline without hitting the rev limiter. On the downside, the manual driver has to time his own shifts, and he has to take his foot off the gas to shift, while the 5AT never stops accelerating.

The 6MT's first and second gears are lower, so it feels more responsive in these gears than an automatic at any speed in the same gear. As a result there are also a couple of speeds at which the 6MT driver has to shift while the 5AT is still pretty close to the sweet spot.

If you could see both cars race from above you'd see the gaps between the two cars constantly opening and closing. But the 6MT would be pulling ahead over time. Even if it's only a few tenths over say, a quarter mile, being a few tenths behind someone at those speeds can look like a lot more distance than it equates to in terms of time.

(Technically, I realize that most of the 6MT's gears are lower, but it's 1st and 2nd that really give the seat-of-the-pants illusion that the 6MT is much faster than the 5AT. The problem is that there are also speeds at which the 5AT is benefitting from being on the sweet spot in its second gear while the 6MT is pretty low in 3rd. In the end though, the 5AT spends less total time, in a race, with this advantage than the 6MT.)

te3point5

Oh, I agree with you, the manual can beat an auto, but if you have an ass crappy driver in the manual, I'd say the auto would win, 6 speed or not.


ANd really? Its a single cam??? I don't have TL, so I just assumed. Wow, so that VTEC mush come in handy...

2K2SilverTL-S

The auto transmissions in the 04 TL seem really protective as someone said before. My 02 TL-S has a much more aggressive auto that loves to go to the redline and shift with authority. The 04 seems to refuse to go to the red on the 1-2 shift (although it can be done using the L) and the shifts arent as quick as the TL-S. I guess its to avoid the embarassing auto tranny scandel with the 04s.

svtmike

4 valves per cylinder does not require DOHC. We have a SOHC implementation of 4 valves per cylinder.

Mike

Monte TLS,MAX

Just look at the trap speeds in the 1/4 mile that will tell you whats faster. the auto traps from 92-95 manuals trap from 96-99 from what I have seen. The manual not only get there faster its traveling a few mph faster when it gets there, this is from seeing them at the track experience and what you can easily read in M/T,C/D. Also look at the 0-100 there is couple sec. diff between the auto and manual.

caball88

woo couple of secs difference from 0-100?? that is alot.

Monte TLS,MAX

A couple of seconds is many car lengths or bus lengths at speed.

chkelly

next time i go 100 and cars are passing me im going to think about that manual...

cpurick

Yes, but we have a V6. So, is there one camshaft over each cylinder head, or is there one camshaft in the middle?

Xpditor

How do you come up with those numbers?

Xpditor

There are two overhead cams (SOHC). One over each head. One for each bank of 3 cylinders.

One cam in the middle, in the block, is the old Detroit (or new Corvette) way with pushrods from the cam lobes to the rocker arms to the valve stems.

E!ntertainment

no Im just not lazy.

E!ntertainment

temple of vtec dyno

caball88

i had a AT car before this one and when i was in 2 hours of traffic i still regretted getting the automatic. its just no fun for me, i guess when i get older i might consider it but it takes all the fun out of driving for me.

Donte99TL

Temple of vtec dyno said there was a only 10 hourse power diffrence at the rear wheel between the two. What areticle did you read over there that it stated 20-30?

E!ntertainment

I stand corrected. Also it is front wheel not rear.

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...icle_id=198757

I would still say more than 10 as the auto had more miles on it while the MT had significantly less as noted bt TOV.

caball88

they also said that the 6MT TL was still very new and that when it was broken in more it might be a bigger difference. certainly not 30hp difference but rather somewhere around 15-20.

icex731