morninglight

So i think i have it narrowed down to the 05' TL, non navi... (i live in houston, and i think i have a handle on things is my reasoning)

Question: Im having the "gitters" about negotiating a price.... so far the straight offers are about 31,700. I havent counter-offered.

Colors im looking at : Satin Silver, or Anthrocite..... Quartz interior is a must.
Satin Silver is great..... but Anthrocite looks greater to me. My current car is "graphite" which to me is almost the same color..... i dont like washing it once a week based on that..... so im slightly leaning towards silver..... your thoughts?

Im most likely going to purchase from John Eagle Acura..... there close to home is my reasoning.


I currently have a 2004, EX V6 Accord Coupe w/ spolier and 24k on the car.
Sadly to say i owe 22k on it..... so i know im going to have to "eat" some rollover.

I plan to use 7k cash......


Think i will have much luck? Any advice (besides trying to sell my accord privately.... i think it will be easier mentally for me to trade it in)


Thanks guys so much in advance for your comments.....

tzakiel

As long as you are under or between the edmunds and kelly blue book "true" prices (between msrp and invoice) you should be okay. When it came time for me to make a counter offer I asked for more on my trade in based on stuff I looked up online (dealer verified that on his computer) and got a price close to what I had researched... so I was happy to be in the range of what was fair, and that's all anyone can really ask for. Some guys like to go all the way down close to invoice but that can be a little mentally tiring.

EDIT: oh, also, if you want to drive that price down you will have to appear unhappy with the price and say you are going to leave and talk to another dealer... they will probably not let you walk out like that without changing tune but if they do you may find they call you with a better price. Doing this with a few dealers is the way to get prices down but it is obviously a lot more time consuming and you dont get that feeling of driving home in a new car right away.

crazymjb

That seems high, we got ours with nav for 32,500. I would say get the nav, even if it requires waiting another month(to save up), even if you know your area by heart. You have to leave sometimes, right?

Shark

I just purchased mine a few days ago. Quartz interior was a must for me too and will be discontinued in 06 models. I went with the Silver Satin. Had a dark gray Maxima and have found silver sooooooo much easier to keep clean and it looks great

Hope you get the deal and car you want. I sold cars in college and have always gone by the motto that its a good deal if you think its a good deal.

morninglight

thanks you guys for your replies..... they do help!

Mike_TX

Get the invoice price for the TL from kbb or edmunds and print it out. Ditto for your trade, except print out only the HIGHEST trade-in value you can find for your car. Take these printouts with you to the dealer and refer to them right there on his desk ... that way, he knows you have done your homework and know the prices.

He'll tell you the trade-in value for your car is crap, but just be stubborn and try to stick as close as possible to the printout price ... hey, it's just as reasonable as a number he pulls out of his a$$! Dealers have a good bit of latitude on your trade-in value, and if they want your business they'll negotiate.

If you don't get what you want, go to another dealer.

I've always had good luck just calling dealers. I ask for the fleet mgr. or the new car sales mgr. (since neither of them is generally on commission), and just ask them for their best price for a no-sweat sale. Just let them know you're calling other dealers, too, but that you'd really rather deal with them. Yeah, it's a little hokey, but they want to believe it. LOL!

DWDYEM2001

I got mine with navi for $34,000 after Tax, Tag, and Title....

morninglight

im pretty excited about getting one.... im scared ill get raped on the trade and have to bring more dinero to the table.

tzakiel

You can't get "raped" because you have a tool the dealer doesn't - your feet. I think it was either here or edmunds I read that "dealers have thier tricks, you have your feet"

No dealer wants you to walk out, and if they do let you walk out, you tell that to the next dealer and they will know you mean business. If you aren't happy with the trade in value tell them. In my case they wanted to give me about $1000 below kelly blue book/edmunds. I told them that I wanted the price I found online, and they brought thier offer up by $600 on the next offer... not bad for me just saying "make it higher please" So just be confident and you will get the prices you want if they are fair and a little researched!

vupac1

let me tell ya...i opted to pass on the navi and to tell you the truth i kinda regret it...even tho i dont think i'd use it all that much, its just much cooler to have it, but thats just me...also i heard theres a hack out where you can use it as a screen for dvds and whatnot

btw im from houston too

glennjr15

GET THE NAVI!! I guarantee that you won't regret it. Please, Please, Please get the Navi. Even the dealer from where I got my TL, regrets not getting Navi.

Take my word for it, it's one of the greatest innovations of our time. It's like having Mapquest, the phone book, and a limited internet all in one.

Maybe we should start a collection for you, so that you'll get the navi.

Hybrid

There's a lot to be said for that approach. Nada and Edmunds seem to have unrealistically high trade-in values on the web. KBB values seem to be more in line with what people really can get (and generally you have to use the "good" condition values, not the "excellent" even if the car is truly perfect). So print out the Edmunds and NADA, if that works for your Accord. The dealer may then counter offer by showing you Kelley value or another source, but at least you'll see what they are using, and you'll have the Kelley value in mind as generally "fair" anyway. (You can ask to be shown, if they don't offer). At least you are less likely to have to negotiate UP to KBB value, and instead you can start there.

Actually, a lot of dealers call around to other dealers to get quick bids on your trade. For example, if you are trading a Nissan, an Acura dealer would call a Nissan dealer for a "bid." This approach doesn't use book values at all, and is purely driven by the local market.

morninglight

What makes me nervous about kelly blue book - is they say my accord is worth 16k ..... yeah right! All the dealers are selling them used for 24k!!!!!!!!!!

morninglight

i will have to remember to be brave strong and willing to walk out! Who knows i may have to end up driving 500 miles to purchase a TL in the end (not happy about that idea though!)

mn2trance

Hell, I flew to get mine and don't regret it at all.

morninglight

wow!


Well today i wrote some cheesey internet sales guy down off i-45 somewhere? and told him what i want, and what i want to pay...

te3point5

Just remember that everything is negotiable, not just the price of the car.

Just because they tell you a trade in value, doesn't mean thats ALL they'll give you. Even finance rates are negotiable (to a point).So if you think you've gotten all you can from the price of the TL, start working with the trade in value, if they can't do it, then say thanks, and tell them you're going to try another dealer.

morninglight

thanks! Believe it or not.... i think i might get a subtancial offer from some "internet sales guy" from the location off 45 in the boonies........ well i would hope so at least since i was flat out honest with him since somehow he had my name already! so i figured i could use him as my guinea pig if nothing else.....

i told him ive done my homework on my trade.

DWDYEM2001

Everyone here is right. You CAN negotiate. Don't let a sales guy push you around. Try to talk to the Sales Manager. You usually will get a level headed guy. Be willing to walk out. Sales guys thrive on people thinking that they have to have the car right away and seem impatient. I drove 250 miles to get mine. It was well worth it. I priced out 3 different dealers and negotiated. Be patient. It will pay off. If you can, sell your old car first and don't trade it in.

Good luck to you. What color do you like?

OH and get the navi for sure.

morninglight

I truely love the anthrocite, but my accord is Graphite (really pretty much the same thing) and its a bitch to keep clean.... water spots, dust, and all the road construction..... it never looks pretty for more than a day...

Im really leaning on Satin Silver..... I notice everyone on here is pro-navi..... i just really see my friends just playing with it, placing there fingerprints all over it.... and ... i dont know..... i just have a gut feeling it isnt for me. I see it being a great item, but i also see it adding miles to my car from people saying "lets take your car so we wont get lost" ....... i think i actually like getting lost..... its part of the journey to me!

I really really like the quartz interior.

My newest question is ..... will 35% window tint on silver look "thuggish" .... i know on anthrocite it looks sweet. I will have to keep my eyes peeled on the road to spot that one!


The past few days i have been keeping my accord spotless, and extra clean....... in case it is "the day" some punk appraises it..... i figure a clean car gets you a few more dollars........ at least id rate one higher if it was clean

TampaMike

Keep in mind that 'best price' is market driven. Market conditions vary by state, city, region etc. So comparing deals from someone in the Northeast is not an apples to apples compare to a dealer in your area. You are better to shop the price in your own area between dealers you are willing to travel to. And they will confuse you by throwing in locking lugs and mudflaps where another dealer will toss in some complimentary service. Keep your focus, keep track of details.

Bottom line, use some objective online tools for fair market pricings (ex, Edmunds determines best prices based on your zip...observing your market). Decide on a min & max that YOU are comfortable paying and stick to it. We NEVER really know if the dealer is at his rock bottom, and that gets more difficult to determine when you add a trade into the mix. So best that you decide what numbers work for you. If the dealer is in your range, go for it and don't double guess yourself. You will only drive yourself crazy.

I cannot imagine a dealer ever offering to LOWER the deal if he has met your range, even if not at the bottom. So be prepared to to settle somewhere in your target range with or without haggling. I personally, never negotiate more than twice, it works for me. Some people like haggling...I don't. To me it cheapens the experience. Could I have saved another $500 when I purchased? Maybe, but I was quoted in my range, I said yes and had a 45 minute painess experience getting into my TL.

Good Luck!

hudsonvalley

I am in the same boat looking for TL 2005 with Nav. I like silver ebony. Last quote price with negotiation (one round) is 32300. I would give the dealer the kelly blue book price for your car after he or she has offered a ridiculous low price and then ask them why it is so much lower. They will usually raise their offer (they did on my 1999 altima)

Good Luck..

DWDYEM2001

With Navi? Good Price. Go with it!

morninglight

Nada says my car is worth 21,450 for trade retail 24,450
Edmunds says 19,800 for trade retail 24,326
KBB says 16,900 for trade retail 23,375

What has me annoyed is KBB being so much lower on the trade.....

I think i would only be able to possibly consider 18,700 on trade as the low end of it.

I figured for trading in the car since i owe 22 (ouch i know right?) i will be getting a 1,200 dollar tax savings on the new car. So if i add that to the 18,700 the trade is now truely worth 19,900....... Then if the car is about 30k..... I wouldnt mind walking out the door for 32k total.

Is that even reasonable?

Also plan on plunking down 7k cash.

So all in all i would be financing 25k and change?

What do you guys think? Sound somewhat okay?

WdnUlik2no

I suggest you try to sell the Accord yourself before getting the TL. The dealer is going to screw you on the trade in. period. A good rule of thumb I have noticed is that the dealer who buys your trade will turn around and sell it for $4000 - $5000 MORE than they gave you for it. So look around at retail prices of cars like your own and subtract $5000 to get your approximate trade in value. Or take it is CarMax, they can appraise it for you without pressuring you to get a car. The value they offer is pretty comensurate with what other dealers will give you.

WdnUlik2no

If you owe 22 on it and you get 19000 for it you are already in the hole $3000. So your walk out the door price is actually $35,000, and putting $7000 down would mean you are financing 28k.

BTW Kbb is more realistic than edmunds, what scares me though is that I have NEVER seen a dealer offer blue book for any trade.

morninglight

Well what about the tax break i would be getting?

isnt it 1500?

fast-tl

don't forget navi. as others said, it makes the tl a whole different car, plus navi is becooming available on more and more cars. maybe you don't want it NOW, but down the road when many more cars have it, it'll be missed. plus, do yo uREALLY have a city the size of Houston MEMORIZED, as well as alternate routes? have you ever been to Home Depot and they don't have the part but two other locations do? Nothing like jumping into the car and having IT tell you just where the other locations, nearest ATM, etc are, all with the sound of your voice.

morninglight

i 100% agree with your points.... i just really am certain i dont want navi as the friends playing with it/ more likely hood to increase miles is big......


Im just truely hoping the trade goes well.... if they offer me crap... i wont do it.

jdb8805

Is it Jeremy Pratt?

At Champion Acura?

I bought my TL from him and he's a decent guy.

morninglight

i have some cheesey internet sales guy named "David Le" ........ the f*cker (pardon my french) never called me back today!

And he promised he would!

swtato

Here are your numbers assuming TL selling price is $31700, Trade is $18,700, you owe $22000. Tax rate in Houston is 6.25%.

31700-18700 leaves a difference of 13000. 13000 is your taxable trade difference @ 6.25 % = $812.5 ( You were talking about a tax savings of $1200, that assumes you were not trading you vehicle in, you do not ad it to the price it just makes you feel better by thinking you are getting more $$$).


You owe 22000 on your car minus 18700. Leaves you upside down $3300

So back to our #'s

$31700 Sell price
+ 812.5 Taxes
+ 3300 Negative trade equity (Pay off loan)
+ 350 Estimated Title and Lic. fees
= $36162.5 Drive out
- 7000 Cash
= $29162.5 Amount left to be financed

That amount @ 5.5% intrest for 60mo. comes to around $557/mo.

I used to sell cars for a living (I just loved cars and enjoyed the game, now I am a Financial Advisor, scary huh?)so if you have any questions let me know how to get ahold of you and I will be happy to help you out or explain some things to you.

swtato

Hey that is not out in the Boonies! John Eagle is out in the Boonies!

morninglight

thank you for throwing some math on the table!

morninglight

So now here is what i think i have negotiated.

BTW - i loved leaving a dealership after 2 minutes today!!! hahahahaha
I took my car to have it appraised at CarMax today....... they offered 18,000 even.

In past times i have used them to quote, the dealer ends up giving me 1k more on the trade....... so im pretty hopeful.

So here are the latest numbers.

31,700 although Tim said "i might be able to get it a few hundred lower"
My car appraised at 18,000 with CarMax - I told Tim - i will NOT take less on the trade...... i told him that... and he said "deal" - but doesnt know how much my trade was quoted.... im going to ask him to appraise it first...... i know i might have hurt myself a little here..... but continuing on.

Tim explained the tax credit is only for what my car is "worth"..... My newest question is if they offer me "18k" can they tax it for higher to help me?

so this leaves 4500 in negative equity...... but im really pleased that the what my car "IS" worth saves me taxes..... Our tax rate is 7.25 .. so thats $1350

4500-1350 = 3150 of "upside downess"

31750 - 18000 = 13,700 of true taxablness . im not sure the upsidedowness is taxed? but if so.... 16850..... the tax on that would be 1,263 - ouch.

so total price of the car is 36,663 OUCH lol.... including tax title, license

So ive upped my downpayment to 8,000...... brings the car down to 28,663 to be financed at 6% bringing the car payment to aprox 544ish? for 60 months..... or 475 for 72 months.....

i sound pretty screwed huh? Im thinking of rethinking getting a TL.
I will still think about it.... would anyone mind checking my math?

fast-tl

What's your happiness worth? Get the car, dude! As for being upside doesn; anything you cna do to avoid it in the future?

swtato

Answer is no you can work the deal one of two ways. Retail to retail or wholesale to wholesale.

in retail to retail they sell you the car at sticker and give you the difference between sticker and the sale price of the TL to apply to your trade in this case it would be approx. $1400, so that could make you r trade $19400 (assuming you get $18000).

in wholesale to wholesale you get the sale price against your actual quote for your trade. The taxes will work out to be the same regardless of which way you go. and they cannot screw with the taxes unless they want to get in alot of trouble with the state.

The tax rate should be 6.25% on vehicles not 7.25%. Call around and verify this if thaey are telling you differently. I just bought a new 05 Expedition Limited and 6.25 was the tax rate.


Your #'s are wrong here !3750 x 6.25% = 839.37


I will be happy to give you #'s to expect, but give me some info.

1. What do you owe on your trade.
2. What do you think the selling price of the TL will be.
3. How much cash will you put down.

Answer these 3 questions and I will get you very close to what you can expect to pay drive out!

From the way you explained what you think you have and how you perceive it you could get taken to the cleaners by a dealer. Answer my qeustions and I can give you the ammo you need to go buy the car or walk away.

morninglight

First off - i appriciate your help allot.

I didnt know cars was 6.25........ thats nice

1) 22500
2) I was originally quoted "31700" but he said he could see baout knocking off a few hundred....... whatever that means...
3) planned on 7.......... but may go for 8?

Again.......... thanks

swtato

Here's waht we will use.

TL = 31500
Honda = 18000 (owe 22500) = 4500 negative equity (upsidedown
cash = 7500

to figure tax yo subtract the trade from the new car and that is the taxable amount (you already paid tax on the trade.

31500-18000= 13500 x 6.25% = taxes of 843.75

31500
+ 843.75 taxes
+ 300 est. title, lic. and fees
+4500 negative trade equity

=37143.75 drive out
-7500 cash
= 29643.75 amount to be financed


Don't try to make it confusing with your trade just keep the #'s simple and by all means what ever the quote they give you on the trade they will not let you walk over $500, so you know they can always bump the trade. Do not let them know what you can get at carmax. stand firm to your numbers and let them know you have the cash to make up the trade difference that way they know you are willing to work with them.

morninglight

I e-mailed Tim this offer this morning

Silver Satin Metallic w/ Quartz Non Navi
Anthrocite w/ Quartz Non Navi

31,500 for the car.
I understand "documentation fees" are about 300... I agree to 150.

John Eagle to take My accord for 19,500.

31500 - 19500 leaves 12,000 for tax on the new vehicle - 750$

I will place 7,500 down on the TL and have my own finacing.

If we cant do this, then I really cant afford to do this deal. Looking at the finances last night, I am already tapped out on the deal.