Actuary

Gas price is really high in Canada and I'm putting 87 regular these days.
Has anyone had problem using 87? In Canada, it is also easiar to start car in cold days.

Here are informations from Acura
- 2005 Canadian Brochure says 87 octane maybe used with reduced performance
- Gas cap says "Premium unleaded only" = 91
- Owner's manual says 87 can be used in emergency only

caball88

this has been discussed before but no one has documented any problems arising from using the 87 octane. performance will be hindered somewhat as the engine timing will have to the lower octane fuel. i know gas prices are high now but how much are you really saving? there is about a 20 cent difference between 87 and 91. if you fill up 17 gallons(which is almost impossible as that is the max capacity of the tank) that amounts to $3.40 per fillup. you are most likely putting in about 13 gallons like me when the light comes on. that is only $2.60 per fillup. if you fill up once a week that is $124.80 savings for the year. if you fill up twice a week that is still less than $250 for the year. is it really worth it? you spent good money on the TL and want to skimp out on less than 3 bucks every fillup?

Ron A

When you use 87 octane, the knock sensor will limit your rpm's to about 4,000. Sometimes you might need to go over 4,000 to get out of a hazardous situation, and you won't be able to do it.

Try it for yourself. Run it up in the gears and see how far you can get on the tachometer with 87 octane.

Also, the knock sensor only retards the ignition after it detects a knock, which means you are experiencing some kind of predetonation, even if you can't always hear it.

ludachrisvt

iTrader: (2)

nice ... not flaming you but dont be a cheap jackass. cball is right. why make a 500+ dollar payment a month and "save" like 10 bucks a month on gas? If you want to use 87 drive a civic

tdawgy808

Have to agree with everyone else...IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO MAINTAIN THE CAR...DON'T GET THE CAR!

Wish I could have afforded this car when I was 20

Actuary

So is there any real life experience other than opinions?

Gas in Canada costs 20-30% more than in States. Premium is 10cents+ per litre = means it could be about 40 cents more per gallon compared to regular.

ou sig

I can only say from experence with my mom's '02 Avalon. She put in 87 for a while then started to experience bad engine noise (knocking) when she acclerated. I told her to put in premium, and the noise quit and she noticed better performance. Also, after using the regular for so long one of her O2 sensors went out - I really think it had to do with using regular vs. premium like the manual states.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Some opinions = based on real life experience.

What, you want a link to some data that I collected from my knock sensor? (Here we go again... remember kaih, anyone?)

I only put in 93, because Michigan only has 87, 89 and 93.

When I went to Iowa/Nebraska a few weeks ago with my friends to an HPDE, we realized they only had 91 octane. My gas mileage went down immediately (my car has NEVER gotten anything below 93 octane before), and the Power FC Commander in my friends' cars started showing knocking right away on real-time data display. They had to readjust/retune the car on the spot (ahh, gotta love engine management ).

You KNEW the car required premium when you got it. I just don't understand the mentality of people who buy a car that requires premium, then try to find a way to run it on cheaper gas.

w1n78

i've used 87 octane with a TL. but it wasn't mine, it was a loaner.

i just don't have the heart to do it to my car

SodaLuvr

I suggest using Fuel Power by Lube Control at the 1 ounce to 5 gallon dosage and that will often yield you the same performance as a 91 octane at only 5-6 cents more per 3.785 L.

www.lubecontrol.com

Michael

Actuary

Today, I got 89(plus) after running 87 for last two tanks.

I find engine sounds better with overall more power even with heavy load.

I will fill up 91 next time and see if 89 to 91 makes difference.

caball88

that's still 5 dollars more per fillup. If that extra 5 bucks is gonna kill you then you probably cannot afford the TL and probably something like a civic or accord is better for you since you can get more mpg and use 87 octane in it.

ayethetiense

you will not be saving money. i have friends who have tried this out on their cars.... i just cant do it to mine... no way buddy!

you get less mpg and performance is noticeably worse.... in the long run, you actually have to fill up more. even if you were driving it normally... you would get worse performance anway and you would be burning more fuel.

bluenoise

I did the math on this with my car. When I used 87 for a few tanks, my AVG MPG dropped by 2-3 MPG. Here's what I found:

87 octane:
Average MPG: 22 MPG
Cost per gallon: $2.39
Cost per mile: $0.1086

89 octane:
Average MPG: 23 MPG
Cost per gallon: $2.49
Cost per mile: $0.1083

91 octane:
Average MPG: 25 MPG
Cost per gallon: $2.59
Cost per mile: $0.1036

So, it's actually cheaper to run the 91 on a per-mile basis if the engine wants it. If an engine is happy running 87, there is probably no improvement in performance going with the higher octane. The TL's engine is not such an engine with its 11:1 compression ratio.

Actuary

Those numbers doesn't work in Canada. Premium is 37.85c more, not 20cents more like in States. Which means regular might be cheaper than plus but premium is cheaper than both. I am sticking to plus (89) right now.

I can't seem to calculate reliable MPG figure with different gas yet. It will take me a while to find out if I get lower mileage with lower grade.

cM3go

savings now can result in a huge bill later in maintanence

bluenoise

I used three tankfuls of each grade to do my test. I started with 91 for three tanks, then 89, followed by 87. Since I fill up every four days or so, it wasn't much of a long-term test and it allowed most of the conditions, such as climate, to stay pretty constant. I also filled from the same pump each time in the hope that the auto-shutoff always clicked at the same "fullness" of the tank. I used my trip odometer/gallons pumped to calculate the mileage, but the MID was pretty close to the same numbers.

Now I only run 91.

If you want to do your own tests, just divide the price per gallon by the MPG you get with that grade. If your 91 is $0.3785 more per gallon and you get the same MPG numbers as me, then 91 is more expensive. I don't know, though, how much engine damage, if any, it would cause to run lower octanes, so I can't factor in those costs.

Actuary

I am agreeing on that I get lower MPG with regular(87). Last time I filled up with regular(87), I got about 400km=250mi to empty on MID.

Since then I haven't topped up tank(to save some gas for not carrying weight of full tank). However with 3/4 full with plus(89), I remember getting close to 400km=250mi reading on MID. I would assume with full tank of plus(89) or premium(91), I can get 500km.

By the way, what kind of numbers on MID do you people get when you fill up? Am I getting really bad gas mileage?

berzerker

WTF!?! LOL, you seriously don't fill the tank completely full because you're concerned with saving weight from fuel?? Holy hell, that is insane. Do you drive with your windows up at all times and the A/C off as well???


some of you guys kill me. you bought a 30k car and are worrying about a couple hundred dollars worth of fuel PER YEAR. good gravy, that's insane. I mean, I'm not made of money, but surely you can find other areas of your life to obsess over with regards to dollar savings. wow.

Actuary

Yup, no joke. being 20 and in school. I can't spend money like people in their 30s. I went to gas station twice this week, I'm going tomororw to fill half talk.

bluenoise

So a half tank of gas, which I figure is about eight gallons, weighs about 50 pounds. I've heard that most cars lose about 1 MPG for every 100 pounds of extra weight, so that half-tank is saving you about .5 MPG in consumption. Hardly seems worth the extra trips to the gas station to me. You'd save much more than that just by minimizing A/C use and keeping a light foot.

ramzfan

I think a gallon weighs 8 lbs. Still a bit extreme if you aks me. I guess the next step is to only date girls with anorexia to keep the passenger weight down as well.

berzerker

LMMFAO!!!! that's pure genius!!!

berzerker

It's not about being rich when you're 30 and poor when you're 20, nothing to do with that. Hell we're STILL paying for my wife's Masters Degree from Emory University 6 years later. Perhaps being in school you should have been a bit more frugal with your purchase choice, and then bought a TL in a couple years when you can afford to really enjoy it. Not trying to be your Dad, just saying. I applaud you for affording a TL in college, I know I could not have. But to do something as drastic as this to ''save'' money, is beyond ridiculous IMO.

I also thought I read somewhere that not filliing your tank up on a regular basis caused moisture to build up in there somehow and cause water in the line type problems after a prolonged period. Not sure, coulda been hallucinating that night.

Anyway, enjoy your TL, that's what it's all about.

bluenoise

I've heard of the condensation build-up, too, but I'm not sure how much water would end up in the tank.

Also, one gallon of gasoline weighs 6.25 pounds at 72 degrees F, at least according to Google.

massr1

i understand your price pains bud, living in toronto premium can cost almost a buck a litre. but i never even attempt to put regular in cause i never want to take that kind of risk on such a beautiful car. an engine that doesn't fire on time can cause some consequneces in the long run. if it makes u feel better, higher octane burns more efficiently which means its better for the environment and better mpg for u. if was up to me, id pump in some 112 octance occasionally and have some flames shooting out of my exhaust

Actuary

lol yeah. today's gas price is 90.9/L for regular. Premium is 100.9/L.
I've been putting 95.9/L plus(89) for couple weeks now. So far I'm suffering some mileage loss (not entirely sure if it's due to gas). No knocking problem so far.

subinf

how did you afford your car?
did you make a budget?

hopsterguy

Holy cow... better not get in an accident with that TL... that will really set you back if you are worried about gas choice.


Damn... save money, get a college beater and live well after you college bills are paid off.


-S

cliff

i recently filled up, but he attendent filled up 87 by accident. i noticed a little in performance, but the car still revs over 4k. it was very close to redline when i floored it.

im not trying to prove you wrong, but it was strange because i have heard that it did limit the revs but it didnt happen to mine.

Actuary

It does not limit rev like that. I can go 6000 with 87. It retards engine timing so I dont feel same power at 6000 as if i were to use 91

caball88

seriously if you cannot afford to buy gas for this car i really think you should be driving something else. i know you are young and probably still in school so the money for gas on this car is harder to come up with. the TL is rated at 20/30 but more realistically you get low 20's mixed driving. that is pretty good for a 3.2liter high horsepower engine. maybe a civic or something might make more sense for you since you will get higher gas mileage even on 87 gas. think about it if you use 87 and you are losing mpg then it means you have to fillup more and hence you did not save any money on gas.

Actuary

I asked if there is any "Real LIFE" problems. I didn't start this thread to hear that over and over again. Anyone with real life experiences? It would be just interesting to know what effect lower octane has on our TL.

Oil could be doubling the price in who knows when.

empathy

low octane + high compression=detonation. would u like to see the chips in my forged pistons for my prelude that i turboed? the compression on my prelude engine was 9:1 and the TL's is 11:1 and i ran only 91 octane because that's all i can find in california. the TL dosent have forged pistons, so it will be easier to break those pistons than forged pistons. stop being cheap and start using 91 octane in your car.

you wanted real life problems? you should be seeing them for your self pretty soon. keep driving like that and put some more miles on your car and do a compression check 91 and 87 octane burn differently. 91 octane burns cooler and longer. do a compression test now and then do it in 10,000 miles.

if you can not afford 91 octane, sell the car and find something that has 10:1 or less compression.

empathy

im 19 and i run that the service manual tells me to. 91 octane for my old car..and 91 octane in these next few days when i pick up my TL. im 19 and i go to school full time and i will be paying for the car in full, which i earned myself and i also work 30 hours a week.

dont give this bs about how ur poor and ur in school. if u were poor, you would of had realized you shouldnt of had boughten the TL, but a civic instead.

once again, do you want to see what detonation can do to forged pistons that were produced by JE? the valves never hit the pistons because if they did, i would have bent valves, which i did not have.

lflorack

I agree with you completely. What kind of sense does it make to buy a car for $31K - $35K, knowing it requires premium and then try to save a few dollars per tankful -- even if there's even just the possibility that it will affect performance or reliability?

deandorsey

ive used 87 in the 00TL, S2K, RSX-S, and 04TL i have now. ive never once had a problem. there is a slight decreased performance.

Actuary

Thanks for the info

empathy

holy crap...the s2k=11:1 compression..the TL=11:1 compression..the rsx-s=11:1 compression..they all require 91 octane.

87 octane?

there is a reason why they recommend 91 octane. take ur head off and inspect ur pistons and compare those to pistons that have been running 91 octane their whole loves.

i dont understand why some people would pay soo much for cars and cheap out on gas. 91 octane does NOT burn the same as 87 octane. 91 octane burns cooler and longer.

there is a reason why all motor builders that run 13.5+ compression decide to use LEADED gas. c16 and stuff like that. if not, they would detonate all day long and kill their engines.

why get a 30-35k car and become a penny pincher when it comes to gas? oh wells, keep driving like that. wait till u fry ur piston rings and u come back wondering why u burn 2 quarts of oil every 1000 miles.

caball88

well alot of times daddy paid for the car...