Airdog

I am about to place an order for a 6MT Navi but have serious concerns about this "torque steer" issue. I understand what "torque steer" is, however after reading the Car&Drivers review I want to know from you owners is it really that bad on the 04 TL. My 02-TL S does not seem to have it and i have driven an 03 CL-S w/6MT and it did not seem too bad (which has the same tranny & limited slip diff.), so is C&D accurate? Typically I respect C&D's opinion.

coop1018

I noticed it when I took a corner pretty fast from a stop when I was first getting use to the start up from first gear. It is a weird feeling but I am getting use to it. I thought I screwed up something, there is this little triangle symbol that flashes when it comes on. However, you have the option of turning off the system everytime you get in your car.

lakeman

Airdog, check out the threads here on C&D review. Most of us gave our comments about torque steer there. All in all, some of us (me included) believe that it is mild and if you don't drive 8/10s and over, is not an issue. Others think it is an issue. Also tires are appearing to be a major factor. Several owners are stating that the handling is MUCH improved with better tires, especially summer rubber.

Airdog

Coop - you are referring to the traction control not the torque steer correct?

Airdog

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lakeman
[B]Airdog, check out the threads here on C&D review. Most of us gave our comments about torque steer there.


lakeman
Got it. thanks for pointing me in that direction.

coop1018

Airdog, yes sorry, I misuderstood the question, what exactly is the torque steer. I am getting them confused.

zexi

Torque steer is mild , it's a front wheel drive car ! with 270 hp!
What would you think would happen if you stompted on the pedal
making a turn. This is a great car , you just have to know how to dive it ! Car and Driver editors are all wet in there review.
I will say this, I would LOVE this car in a MT with all wheel drive.
But it would propably cost 3k more and maybe outprice itself in the near luxury segment. However I would pay the extra $$

vtechbrain

Torque steer is the tendency, in a front wheel drive car, for the front wheels to resist directional change when accelerating. Now in english, if your at a standsill with your wheels turned and you floor the accelerator, the steeirng wheel will resist changing direction from the position it's at, aka torque steer. In FWD cars with a ton of power and torque this tendency can be masked but not completely eliminated, for years, honda has been the only manufacturer to deal with this tendency well, that's why most honda owner dont even know what it is. On the six speed if driven only moderately aggresive you will never know what it is either. The way to elicit it in the car is to drive it as if it were an NHRA dragster (which its is not) When you elicit tons of wheel spin that will lock the front tires in unison (LSD) thus compoundig this trait. The LSD on the other hand will enable you to punch out of curves at speeds that will wet your pants since the natural tendency of spinning the inner wheel in a curve is eliminated.
In summary, unless you are constantly racing by pulling out of the hole, you probably will not ever expirience understeer. If you do you will quickly learn how to work around it. Anyway the best 0-60 times in this car are with as little wheel spin as possible since the car is so powerful you can overwhelm the tire with very little effort. Rev to 2500 drop the clutch and GO, GO. If you're wondering, people are always refering to driving at 8/10 around here. At that level this car will smoke essentially all the competition. At 10/10's its more difficult to drive but god knows there is not going to be anybody close to compete with anyway!!!

Airdog

VTECH - Great F#cking explaination!

jyg tl 3

I have test driven 6mt several times, and did not drive like dragster,. Torque steer is easily invoked by moderate driving in 1st & 2nd gear, . wheel moves in your hands, not predictable as to which direction . possibly lsd is adding to problem, I now drive bmw 528, but have had for 12 years
legend 5sp mt coupes. no torque steer with them, only 160 hp. I think in the tl it can be dangerous, especially when you are really on the car, and shifting through gears,You can't have both hands on wheel and shift at same time.

sparky57

That is not a good description of the phenomena. It is caused by differential forces (usually due to the unequal length half drive shafts) on the drive chain causing the steering to pull to one side or the other under hard acceleration. It effectly CREATES directional change, not resist it.

rw

SergeyM

VTEC confused TS with US. TS - car turns when you want it to go straight. US (under-steer) - car goes straight when you want it to turn. Both problems tipical for FWD. From my experience with 2002 TL-S honda cars have very little of TS (and torque itself) and a lot of US.

rapera

I am experiencing very little torque steer, except under extreme acceleration in 1st gear.

You want to experience torque steer, push the button to defeat the VSC, put it in 1st gear, wind it up to high rpms and drop the hammer.

Best place for that would be an empty parking lot, as it will be a wild ride.

In daily driving, it is fine.

UA5-TL

I was test driving the 04-TL 6MT and as i was pulling onto the major street from the dealership i had torque steer...which i thot wa smy driving lol and i scared the shiet out of the salesman and i just kept on booting it..but he didn car...first gear felt so great....but at first it thot it was my driving thats why i had sudden jerk..but all i heard was the salesperson go "POK KAI" in chinese which mean HOLY ****

vtechbrain

Sorry sparky but your just plain wrong. If your wheel is pointing staight ahead they will not be turning anywhere but straight ahead especially in a car equiped with an LSD. I didn't want to get in to the physics but the reason for torque steer is gyroscopic force. Due to inertia, an object moving in a circular motion will resist deflections of their angle of motion, that is why a spinning gyroscope will balance itself on a string. Therefore, if you limit wheel spin the torque steer problem will be largely eliminated. That is the reason there is less of it with the potenzas, stickier tires=less wheel spin. The length of the shafts is inmaterial as long as the tires are pulling the same, thats the point of and LSD. If you leave the traction control on the issue is a non starter since it mostly eliminates spin. Magazines and other car know it alls are used to turning the thing off to attain the best 0-60 times. In this car that is not the best method nor is it in essentially any super powered RWD. Try to do a turning burn out in and M5, you will quickly learn what power over steer is all about when you suddenly end up with your butt where your face should be!

sparky57

No debate there as torque steers pulls the wheel so that they are no longer pointing straight ahead.



LSD? My TL has VSA and TCA, but not LSD !!

My experience with twenty years of Hondas differs from yours (evidently as well as others on this same thread).

rw

daveinmass

Folks - some of you are sorta right, some are sorta wrong. I suggest you search Google for "torque steer" +definition.

There are several.

jyg tl 3

tl does torque steer, and the real problem is it does it when you least want it to.Give it gas in 1st on a slightly faster than normal take off and it will pull the wheel and not always to the same side. especially tough when you power shift .

carnal

Great posts on torque steer. i have a '04Tl with auto trans. i've put about 2k miles on it so far, and i don't believe that i have yet felt "torque steer". i'm having trouble inducing it, and i've tried!

i've read that it is not as evident in AT, but i'd like to feel torque steer for two reasons:
1. i am curious
2. i want to know what it feels like, so that i can deal with it when it happens unexpectedly.

So, two questions--- is torque steer not a problem with AT TLs and how can i induce it?

BolderKeith

My own experience with torque steer came from a 1190 cc Fiat that I had worked over; 100 thou milled head, 3/4 cam and bored carburetors. Accelerating in a straight line and whacking a second gear shift at red line ++++ caused the front end to jump violently sideways. HP I have no idea, but it was a fun little car though a piece of junk. I read that the cause of this torque steer was the unequal length half shafts. It will be interesting to see how much torque steer there will be with the rumored 04 TL S (190 HP), but maybe it will be available only with the AT.

VQ35DE

Rent a 3.5L Maxima from Hertz and you'll experience the joy of torque steer!!

jmichaelp

I had an '88 Accord 5MT Coupe - only about 2400 lbs & 120 hp, but with no fancy equipment to prevent it there was plenty of TS in 1st gear Sure, I couldn't floor it from stop on a turn w/o losing some control but it was mostly an annoyance because I understood it & compensated for it. In comparison, I'll bet I never notice the small degree of TS in the TL... We'll see after my break-in period

lakeman

jmichaelp, You nailed it - you learn to compensate for the torque steer. It is not a really big issue.

I'll look for you on I85 as I pass through Charlotte. (I go to Durham from SC frequently.) I, too, will be in a Anthracite/Quartz 6MT VERY VERY SOON!!!

Can't wait

Bitium

I don't know about you guys but this car has little torque steer....

I finally test drove it the other day and I pushed it to over 6k rpms during a turn on second gear....the car behaved very well, I felt the LSD shifting power, but that was all. The grip with all season tires was good....at not point I felt the car was loosing grip nor understeering. It was awesome for a heavy front wheel drive. I guess you need to know what to expect. I'm a 4 year TL driver and my 225hp 99 TL with high performance tires has a lot more torque steer than the 04 6 speed . BTW the steering is not overboost either, it was very firm, the only complaint is the road feel (performance minded person). The brakes were awesome. I compare them in hand with a 350z 14" front and back crossdrilled/slotted with 6 pistons in the front and 4 in the back. The TL was no way near the 350, but it was a good comparison. This car is so much improved over the previous TL.

brahtw8

You just need to stomp on the gas hard from a stop or slow speed, preferably after or during a turn, and stay on the accelerator. The wheel will move in your hand as the power overcomes the car's desire to go where it is pointed.

You don't want to give it so much gas that the car starts to understeer during the turn from wheel slippage. You want the car to be at the edge of its traction, not beyond it.

samkws

b4 ui did the test drive on my own i read the test drive from vtec.net said there are NO MORE torque steer...

however it still has a little bit when i tried to coming out from a corner...just a little bit but not as crazy as the 3.5 Altima...

it's mild and predictable, very much in control still, it won't be crazy and lose control~

partagas

If you are really an "enthusiast" driver, you will learn to play the torque steer. I had a Taurus SHO and an '86 T5 Volvo, both of which torque steered but went like hell. You brake early and start to accelerate early so that the front end lifts and reduces understeer. As pull out of the turn harder than in RWD you anticipate the pull on the wheel and plan it in your steering out.

samkws

86 volvo T5??

i wonder if they had such thing at that time....

didn't they had the mighty tank back then? the 244DL...HUGE black plastic bumper...lol

partagas

Oops, '96, 850.

samkws

lol
my mom did drive the volvo 244DL 20 yrs ago...when i was a little kid...

that car was the most underpowered car we had...with 100hp only!!! hahahaha

since then my dad never bought the volvo again...with little hp and a lot to repair, and he's never a fan of turbo...

partagas

Kid, in 1966, while a junior at UCLA, I had an original Mini Cooper S.

samkws

1966...wow...

u r about the same age as my dad~!!! haha

partagas

Yes, and I regularly flunk people our age who make so many grammatical errors.