6m vs Manual.....
#1
Team Nighthawk Mambo King
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6m vs Manual.....
Not a comparison but a friend of mine is looking into buying a TL, I know him and I know he "mods" his cars so I think he would do good with a 6M, but he is looking into an automatic because he says that the 6M are harder to sell, being most people beat on them vs the autos....
Personally I baby my TL and I think that having a manual vs an auto is a matter of taste, and if you're going to beat car no matter what tranny it has you will beat it...am I "RONG" in thinking that way??...
Personally I baby my TL and I think that having a manual vs an auto is a matter of taste, and if you're going to beat car no matter what tranny it has you will beat it...am I "RONG" in thinking that way??...
#2
Senior Moderator
6MT not 6M, wrong not rong.
Now that we have that settled
I don't think 6MTs are harder to sell, there are plenty of people that want manual cars over automatics
Now that we have that settled
I don't think 6MTs are harder to sell, there are plenty of people that want manual cars over automatics
#3
Dr. Feelgood
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Yo Hek, what's up?
I would agree with you regarding the beating on the car part, no matter the tranny. I have a 5AT and I sorta beat on it. I guess everyone has the urge sometimes.
I would agree with you regarding the beating on the car part, no matter the tranny. I have a 5AT and I sorta beat on it. I guess everyone has the urge sometimes.
#5
never stops!
Right now Acura makes 6MT TL 15% of total production and are hard to find. For resale I think it would be the same for resale. People who love 6MT will always buy them. You can tell from the condition of the clutch if it's used the unhealthy way. When it comes to beating, both cars can be beaten.
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Team Nighthawk Mambo King
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Originally Posted by 05TLTony
Yo Hek, what's up?
I would agree with you regarding the beating on the car part, no matter the tranny. I have a 5AT and I sorta beat on it. I guess everyone has the urge sometimes.
I would agree with you regarding the beating on the car part, no matter the tranny. I have a 5AT and I sorta beat on it. I guess everyone has the urge sometimes.
Yo Yo YO......been there done that so no excuses for those of us who just like to play with our toys.....
QUOTE=cTLgo]6MT not 6M, wrong not rong.
Now that we have that settled
I don't think 6MTs are harder to sell, there are plenty of people that want manual cars over automatics[/QUOTE]
damn 6M...wow and Rong....lol...anyways mr Mod..earatrrr...I think the same ...but I hope he makes the right decision...
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#8
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Granted, the 6MT is more fun to drive, but uses more gas than the 5AT, especially on the highway. Prior to our TL's, I've never heard of a car where the automatic uses less gas than the manual.
#9
they are not harder to sell , but they are harder to find..I know personally it took me about a month to find a 6spd with navi with grey interior and i had to drive 140 miles to go pick it up..But it was worth it...
#10
DMZ- Yea the short gears in the car make the gas mileage suck..But i think once you start modding it , you should be able to increase the gas mileage to something decent..I know in my 02 TypeS when i first got it the gas sucked in that thing too , but after i started to mod it , i quickly got better and better gas mileage..
#11
One on the right for me
Originally Posted by DMZ
Granted, the 6MT is more fun to drive, but uses more gas than the 5AT, especially on the highway. Prior to our TL's, I've never heard of a car where the automatic uses less gas than the manual.
are the 6spds getting worse highway mileage?
#12
Registered Member
Originally Posted by DMZ
Granted, the 6MT is more fun to drive, but uses more gas than the 5AT, especially on the highway. Prior to our TL's, I've never heard of a car where the automatic uses less gas than the manual.
The manual TL has a higher final drive gear, but when combined with 6th gear, the end result is as if it were a lower gear than the automatic. However, the manual does not suffer from nearly as much parasitic loss in the transmission, and does not "hunt" for a lower setting when negotiating slight hills.
#13
Registered Member
Originally Posted by subinf
are the 6spds getting worse highway mileage?
The best in-town, back-and-forth-to-work mileage I have managed with my '04 manual is 27.98 MPG.. in the summer months.
#14
Originally Posted by DMZ
Granted, the 6MT is more fun to drive, but uses more gas than the 5AT, especially on the highway. Prior to our TL's, I've never heard of a car where the automatic uses less gas than the manual.
#15
Ryan Christopher
Originally Posted by DMZ
Granted, the 6MT is more fun to drive, but uses more gas than the 5AT, especially on the highway. Prior to our TL's, I've never heard of a car where the automatic uses less gas than the manual.
Jason
#17
One on the right for me
Originally Posted by Black_05_TL_6SP
I have to disagree, if the 6MT is driven correctly, it will well out perform the 6AT in MPG. It is all about driving habit. In the 6MT you can choose your shift points, this allows you to shift earlier and not rev as high, conserving gas. I have a 6MT and I am currently getting 29 mpg city! I have been driving very conservatively, its boring, but with gas at $3 a gallon, I want to get the most out of my gas. I am currently at 415 miles on the tank and still have 75 miles left on the range.
Jason
Jason
#18
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by JoganJani
Right now Acura makes 6MT TL 15% of total production and are hard to find. For resale I think it would be the same for resale. People who love 6MT will always buy them. You can tell from the condition of the clutch if it's used the unhealthy way. When it comes to beating, both cars can be beaten.
Just checking IL state, I do not even think there are 5-8 total 6MT available across all the dealers - at this point it is a rare car I think.
#22
Registered Member
Originally Posted by Ka0tik
my parents wouldnt let me get a manual (even though i had the hook up for a new 05 for 28,000ish otd) because they said that resale would be bad
btw i paid 29,700 for an 05 tl 5at
btw i paid 29,700 for an 05 tl 5at
Trade in: Manual - $25,425
Automatic - $25,425
Private Sale: Manual - $28,360
Automatic - $28,360
Kinda puts a damper on those who say that automatics will return a higher resale/trade for the TL. First, consider the area in which you live. Second, consider the demand-vs-supply of the product. While it's certainly true that there can and will be differences depending upon where you live and the demographics, in my area, performance sedans with manual transmissions are prized.
#23
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The percentage of 6MTs that I heard is about 6%. I have no idea how accurate that is since I got that from a dealer.
Anyway, I think the whole supply and demand thing cancels things out. Sure, there are more people looking for and willing to buy an AT. So, if you're looking for a quick sell, you'll get more $$ with an AT. However, an "enthusiast" would be willing to spend a bit more $ and time finding an MT, so an MT owner may get more $ if they're not necessarily looking for a quick sell.
And as far as gas mileage, I was getting 28MPG in my 6MT on my typical route. When I had a 5AT loaner, I managed to get about 25 MPG along the same route.
Anyway, I think the whole supply and demand thing cancels things out. Sure, there are more people looking for and willing to buy an AT. So, if you're looking for a quick sell, you'll get more $$ with an AT. However, an "enthusiast" would be willing to spend a bit more $ and time finding an MT, so an MT owner may get more $ if they're not necessarily looking for a quick sell.
And as far as gas mileage, I was getting 28MPG in my 6MT on my typical route. When I had a 5AT loaner, I managed to get about 25 MPG along the same route.
#24
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Originally Posted by SouthernBoy
According to Kelley Blue Book, here are the values for a 2004 TL with 25,000 miles and Nav (both transmissions) being sold in my area;
Trade in: Manual - $25,425
Automatic - $25,425
Private Sale: Manual - $28,360
Automatic - $28,360
Kinda puts a damper on those who say that automatics will return a higher resale/trade for the TL. First, consider the area in which you live. Second, consider the demand-vs-supply of the product. While it's certainly true that there can and will be differences depending upon where you live and the demographics, in my area, performance sedans with manual transmissions are prized.
Trade in: Manual - $25,425
Automatic - $25,425
Private Sale: Manual - $28,360
Automatic - $28,360
Kinda puts a damper on those who say that automatics will return a higher resale/trade for the TL. First, consider the area in which you live. Second, consider the demand-vs-supply of the product. While it's certainly true that there can and will be differences depending upon where you live and the demographics, in my area, performance sedans with manual transmissions are prized.
#25
Originally Posted by SouthernBoy
According to Kelley Blue Book, here are the values for a 2004 TL with 25,000 miles and Nav (both transmissions) being sold in my area;
Trade in: Manual - $25,425
Automatic - $25,425
Private Sale: Manual - $28,360
Automatic - $28,360
Kinda puts a damper on those who say that automatics will return a higher resale/trade for the TL. First, consider the area in which you live. Second, consider the demand-vs-supply of the product. While it's certainly true that there can and will be differences depending upon where you live and the demographics, in my area, performance sedans with manual transmissions are prized.
Trade in: Manual - $25,425
Automatic - $25,425
Private Sale: Manual - $28,360
Automatic - $28,360
Kinda puts a damper on those who say that automatics will return a higher resale/trade for the TL. First, consider the area in which you live. Second, consider the demand-vs-supply of the product. While it's certainly true that there can and will be differences depending upon where you live and the demographics, in my area, performance sedans with manual transmissions are prized.
and it doesnt matter what a book says (even though it is a very useful and reputable source of information), all that matters is what a buyer will pay for it
#26
One on the right for me
Originally Posted by Ka0tik
When i went to the dealer, all of the dealers for that matter, manuals were consistently lower in price.
#27
K-Fed's Stunt Double
6mt is faster. 30 hp is lost to the wheels due to the automatics torque convertor (the jolts and smooth shifts)
so if you have a 6mt you're technically putting 230hp to the wheels (30 lost to friction) opposed to 200 in a regular 5at TL, justsome thought.
so if you have a 6mt you're technically putting 230hp to the wheels (30 lost to friction) opposed to 200 in a regular 5at TL, justsome thought.
#29
K-Fed's Stunt Double
Common knowledge.
*Bump*
You didn't know this man? Automatic shifts are NOT smooth by nature. If you want an automatic without the loss of power check out hte M3's SMG, ti's revolutionary, it's a manual without torque conversion and it costs 5000 more.
It jolts even in it's auto mode, you cannot avoid this. This is why a gear is lost in 5AT compared to a 6mt. The ratios are split among the 5 gears since there is a torque and HP decrease due to the torque convertor (in essence 1 gear) whereas it is not lost in a manual
*Bump*
You didn't know this man? Automatic shifts are NOT smooth by nature. If you want an automatic without the loss of power check out hte M3's SMG, ti's revolutionary, it's a manual without torque conversion and it costs 5000 more.
It jolts even in it's auto mode, you cannot avoid this. This is why a gear is lost in 5AT compared to a 6mt. The ratios are split among the 5 gears since there is a torque and HP decrease due to the torque convertor (in essence 1 gear) whereas it is not lost in a manual
#31
K-Fed's Stunt Double
dynos do not prove for anything champ bailey.
If you knew that they avoid the friction part of the test you'd know that horsepower differential is much different on road tests
TL 5AT 0-60 IN 6.4
6mt in 5.8
Check the supercharger ratings too, it puts a lil more to the wheels due to the lack of a torque converter.
Dont' run your mouth to make yourself feel better
If you knew that they avoid the friction part of the test you'd know that horsepower differential is much different on road tests
TL 5AT 0-60 IN 6.4
6mt in 5.8
Check the supercharger ratings too, it puts a lil more to the wheels due to the lack of a torque converter.
Dont' run your mouth to make yourself feel better
#32
Instructor
I don't know how measuring drive wheel horsepower via a dyno means nothing but we're obviously in the presence of someone with vast knowledge and experience so we'd better accept the word of the expert!
#33
Ryan Christopher
Originally Posted by SouthernBoy
As I write this, Pohanka Acura in Chantilly has 11 6MT's out of 107 TLs in their inventory.
Jason
#34
CLS 6MT Navi
As far as MT vs AT ...
The 2G Legends (sedans and esp 94-95 coupes) in the MT mode were very sought after. I could never find a low mileage 95 coupe so I settled for an automatic.
Got bored with that and went for a CLS when the 03 6MT came out. 6 speed CLS's are very sought after as they only made about 2500 and only in 03.
You TL 6MT drivers are lucky, us coupe drivers had to wait 8 years, from the 95 Legend to the 03 CLS for a 6speed/6cylinder combo! (ok, not counting the NSX).
Selling and buying an MT is trickier but can pay off well, there is a niche for them and since (on the LEgend and CLS) they were rare you can get good money for them, but it may take a little longer than an auto. I had to get my current CLS in another state and drove it home.
The 2G Legends (sedans and esp 94-95 coupes) in the MT mode were very sought after. I could never find a low mileage 95 coupe so I settled for an automatic.
Got bored with that and went for a CLS when the 03 6MT came out. 6 speed CLS's are very sought after as they only made about 2500 and only in 03.
You TL 6MT drivers are lucky, us coupe drivers had to wait 8 years, from the 95 Legend to the 03 CLS for a 6speed/6cylinder combo! (ok, not counting the NSX).
Selling and buying an MT is trickier but can pay off well, there is a niche for them and since (on the LEgend and CLS) they were rare you can get good money for them, but it may take a little longer than an auto. I had to get my current CLS in another state and drove it home.
#35
K-Fed's Stunt Double
WHat do you know man,
a 6th gear plus higher torque due to no loss from a torque converter equals about .5 a second faster which is what reviews are saying
To make matters worse, .5 second on such a big car is more than 12hp I hope you know this and do your research before you snap your mouth off bout a dyno.
a 6th gear plus higher torque due to no loss from a torque converter equals about .5 a second faster which is what reviews are saying
To make matters worse, .5 second on such a big car is more than 12hp I hope you know this and do your research before you snap your mouth off bout a dyno.
#37
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Originally Posted by leeo
they are not harder to sell , but they are harder to find..I know personally it took me about a month to find a 6spd with navi with grey interior and i had to drive 140 miles to go pick it up..But it was worth it...
#38
Instructor
Originally Posted by drtoth
WHat do you know man,
a 6th gear plus higher torque due to no loss from a torque converter equals about .5 a second faster which is what reviews are saying
To make matters worse, .5 second on such a big car is more than 12hp I hope you know this and do your research before you snap your mouth off bout a dyno.
a 6th gear plus higher torque due to no loss from a torque converter equals about .5 a second faster which is what reviews are saying
To make matters worse, .5 second on such a big car is more than 12hp I hope you know this and do your research before you snap your mouth off bout a dyno.
You're right , I made a mistake there isn't a 12hp difference its actually 10hp. Go to the 'Temple of VTEC' and read the results of the two TL's they took to Dyno Labs to test wheel horsepower not crankshaft horsepower. 5AT - 212, 6MT - 222 Any loss due to torque convert inefficiency is revealed in the test results.
Anyway, you obviously know much more that the rest of us so we'll end this discussion and admit that you are right and we are wrong.
#40
K-Fed's Stunt Double
Vtec forums? Dude are you cracked?
One site says 12 hp the rest give us a .5 second faster and you can justify good old Vtec forums? How about you just amdit you're sad you didn't get a 6MT And now you learned your lesson.
You have no idea what you're talking about I'l lsay it again and again, too bad you can't get anything going for you other tha nVTEC Forums. ROAD TESTS PROVE .5 Seconds difference which is > 12 hp..
Thanks bye.
One site says 12 hp the rest give us a .5 second faster and you can justify good old Vtec forums? How about you just amdit you're sad you didn't get a 6MT And now you learned your lesson.
You have no idea what you're talking about I'l lsay it again and again, too bad you can't get anything going for you other tha nVTEC Forums. ROAD TESTS PROVE .5 Seconds difference which is > 12 hp..
Thanks bye.