This is kind of hard to explain so bear with me

Sometimes when engaging into 1st from a stop, and I kinda dont take my foot all the way off the clutch before I start accelerating my car starts to do this stop and go effect, and if I push the gas more it goes faster but still it has that stop and go thing. Its not literally stopping but its like if Im hittin the gas then the brake over and over. The only way to stop it is to shift, I tried pushing the clutch in and releasing it again without pushing the gas, like if I was downshifting and it kept doing it

Does/Has This happened to any of you? If so what the hell is it and why does it happen?

I thought it was my driving at first but I let my cousin and my brother drive my car and it happened to them once also.

hopefully Im not the only one who has experienced this

 

I can tell you're a new MT driver, or at least a new TL 6MT driver. It is your driving. The 6-speed tranny on the TL is known for being difficult to drive. When I was learning how to drive stick I experienced this a couple times. Stepping on the gas will only make it worse. I'm not exactly sure what I did to fix it, but I think what I did was release the gas fully, then clutch in, and then gas again. See if it works for you, otherwise shift to a higher gear.

 

your clutch might be slipping... and what you're doing is called "riding the clutch"

try not to ride the clutch... either fully engage it (all the way down) or don't and minimize your time in between.

 

It's hard to make an evaluation from your description, so I will ask you a few questions to maybe help clear it up a bit.

"Sometimes when engaging into 1st from a stop". I assume you mean shifting into first gear before leaving a stopped position.

"I kinda dont take my foot all the way off the clutch before I start accelerating". This one has me. From this description, unless you were really easing and slipping the clutch, your engine would stall. Can you be more specific and precise here?

Now I will take a few assumptions.

You are starting off from a stop at a very low engine speed and the car starts jerking or bucking. So you shift into second gear in an attempt to end this annoyance. If this is what is happening to you, here is why.

The engine in our TL is rather small (196 cubic inches) and does not produce a lot of torque.. especially at low engine speeds. Now with your manual transmission in first gear, the effective gear ratio reaching the drive wheels is 12.92:1 while in second gear, it's 8.14:1. That is quite a bit of difference and what this means is that minor throttle inputs and such will be felt MUCH more in first gear than in second. When you start off at a very low engine speed, the engine will not operate as smoothly and with a 12.92:1 gear ratio, any variations will be magnified. And once the jerking (bucking) starts, your control over your throttle foot is somwhat overtaken by the jerking which causes slight "bumps" by your foot on the throttle.. again made worse by the wide ratio.

Hope this helps.

 

I am new to the hydraulic clutch

I had a 6-speed 95 Trans Am before this with a clutch stiffer than death and I would rape that clutch, I guess I got too used to driving that type

When I test drove the TL at the dealer I stalled out the first try! I was like WTF I havent stalled out in like 2 years

 

You were right on this first assumption

I always rev it up to 1500-2000RPM when shifting into first

Its so hard to explain, its like if I rev it up- engage the clutch, get the car moving but leave my foot on the clutch for just a split second too long so the car doesnt know whether to be in neutral or in 1st gear. Then it does the gas brake effect, Im still in 1st I give it gas to see if it will stop and it just makes it worse so Im at like 3000RPM and shift to 2nd and it shifts normal and Im on my way. It doest happen THAT often maybe once or twice a week

I know even this description is horrible but I dont really know how else to explain it

 

The TL Clutch is very weird, coupled with the fact that it is an Electronic Throttle, it makes it a very hard car do drive smoothly from first gear and shifting into second. Once in second, it can be driven smooth as butter!


You will get used to it over time. I came from an S2000, so the transition was a bit interesting, but I got used to it after a few weeks.....

 

I suspect that what you mean by "I always rev it up to 1500-2000RPM when shifting into first" is really you rev it up after you are in first gear in preparation for moving out from a dead stop. 1500 to 2000 RPM is generally to high (I would suggest not using more than 1500 RPM unless conditions exist where you must - not too many of those).

What your describing by your statement, "get the car moving but leave my foot on the clutch for just a split second too long so the car doesnt know whether to be in neutral or in 1st gear. Then it does the gas brake effect, Im still in 1st I give it gas to see if it will stop and it just makes it worse " indicates to me that you are having to ride the clutch a little longer than you should (2000 RPM launches), and then you let up on throttle a little while engaging a little more clutch. This will cause the car to buck and begin the sequence of events I wrote about.

You also mentioned this was your first hydraulically operated clutch. With these types of mechanisms, there is a distinct lack of "feel" through the clutch pedal. Couple this with the lighter clutch effort and then add in the short travel and even shorter takeup and you have a touchy clutching action. And finally there is the fact that our clutches have very little takeup travel from the moment of initial engagement to that of enough pressure plate action to start moving the car and you really have a situation different from that which you are accustomed.

I have a 2001 Ranger Pickup and its clutch is cable operated. The pedal has a fairly long travel and engagement starts kinda high in the travel. When I have driven that for a few days then get in my '04 TL, I have to pay attention to what I'm doing because these two vehicles have quite a different clutching personality.

 

Oh, and BTW gentlemen. We do NOT have close ratio 6-speed transmissions in our TLs.. contrary to Acura's ads. Take a look at first gear's ratio relative to that of second gear and you'll quickly see this.

 

I think his problem is caused by the slop in the drive line. The initial clutch ingage is to quick causing a lurch then the additional throttle and slop cause the rest. From the time your clutch starts to engage let it complete its travel up in a smooth motion consistant with the initial travel. Don't ride it.

 

1500-2000 going INTO first is way too high. Really, you shouldn't need more than 1000rpms in first. You need to work on evenly matching the clutch to the gas to keep a steady constant flow until you're completely off the clutch and can mash the gas.

 

I'm pretty sure he means starting off in first at 1500-2000 RPM. I agree that under most all conditions, this is on the high side. Like you, I tend to stay in the vacinity of 1000-1200 RPM for most applications. Those which are the exception are where I need the torque multiplication available from high engine speeds.

The real danger here is that this could become a comfortable "norm" and therefore a habit which can shorten clutch life.

 

Wow, alot of info didnt read the whole thread. Here is my experience in my 1996 Prelude. I got this bucking or the "gas, brake effect" once in a blue moon. It just means that I shifted wrong or cluch didnt engage correctly. Once I thought I could ride it out so I gave it more gas but it bucked faster and more crazy. So when this happanes just press in your cluch and reengage your gears with a smoother gas/cluch ratio. After a while I never had this bucking problem because I got better driving my car. Hope this helps.

 

I've gotten the bucking every once in a blue moon. After waiting for a stop light, I start out in first going down a fairly steep grade where I need to make a tight radius right turn at the bottom normally I'm in second by the time I get there and there's no problems, but ass clowns in Atlanta can not drive, so on occasion I need to leave it in first due do slow people in front of me. After going around the turn, I've put the hammer down on occasion (who doesn't like the sound of VTEC in the morning?) and experienced the bucking between about 3,000 and 5,000 rpm. The clutch is fully engaged when the bucking takes place - my foot is completely off the pedal (and had been since about 1,500 rpm). I've tried to duplicate the bucking after other stops on my commute, by running all the way up into VTEC before shifting into second, but it only seems to happen every once in a while at that location. I just figure it's the drive by wire throttle causing it and don't worry about it. If I could duplicate it, I'd pay a visit to Acura.

 

I get sometimes it too. Almost feels like the car is "coughing," if you know what I mean.

 

i didn't read the whole thread but i have a question for southernboy (sorry for thread hijacking).

i have had tighten the fuel cap light come on which was followed by check engine and after taking it to the dealership they said it was EVAP leak code and after they ran tests they found out there was no leaks and they cleared the code.

the car in the first gear before and after clearing the code does the "bucking" thing in the first gear when i get around 3k rpm and if i take it up to 3k rpm and let my foot off the gas pedal the car slows down really rapidly and it does not just "cruise". is this normal or could it be something related to the problem i had earlier?

 

In first gear, your transmission/transaxle gear ratio is at its lowest.. 12.92:1. This means that even the slightest throttle inputs are going to result in sudden and pronounced power delivery from the engine because the engine's torque is being mutliplied by 12.92 (minus the approximate 12% drive train loss). Now at 3000 RPM, your engine is making quite a bit more torque than it is at 1000 to 1200 RPM so that makes the throttle even more sensitive.

When you suddenly remove your foot from the throttle in first gear at 3000 RPM, your car is most definitely going to slow down rather quickly. Try the same thing in second and third gear.. taking it up to 3000 RPM then getting off the throttle suddenly. You should very definitely notice quite a difference. Once again, this is due to gear ratios and their multiplicative affect on engine torque, only this time, it's engine drag. When you close the throttle on an engine, manifold vacuum rises. Remember, a reciprocating piston engine is a pump. Just because the throttle is closed doesn't mean the valves are closed. The pistons continue to attempt to draw an air/fuel mix into the cylinders. As RPMs raise an the throttle remains closed, vacauum goes up pretty high. This is the "engine drag" effect I spoke about. In the lower gears, it is just a lot more pronounced.

Anyway, most people do not cruise at 3000 RPM in first gear since first is only used to launch from a stop and at very slow speeds. Our ECUs have software which reduces throttle response at low speeds so we don't jerk the car or worse.

 

While I might initially suggest this is due to fuel puddling in the intake manifold being burned off, I have never had this happen in my '04 manual TL. I have had it happen in my 2000 SVT Contour to the point of throttle hang between shifts and even RPM increasing by as much as 1000 between shifts for this burnoff. But I've never had one iota of such a situation with my TL.

One other possibility is this. Perhaps your throttle body needs to be cleaned. What happens is this. Throttle bodies contain, of course, a throttle plate, sometimes called a butterfly valve, that regulates the amount of air entering the intake manifold. Over a period of time and miles, there will be a buildup of crap (like soot or slightly oily dirt) on the edges of the throttle plate and the throttle plate stops in the throttle body orifice. This is commonly caused by the EGR valve along with just an accumulation of stuff in the intake stream. To clean this (I should to mine come to think of it), get a quality commercial throttle body cleaner. Remove the ribbed coupling which connects the air cleaner box to the throttle body. Spray some cleaner on a clean shop rag then prop the throttle plate open. Clean around the edges of the throttle plate and the points on the throttle body opening where the throttle plate rests when it's closed (the throttle stops). A good cleaning should only take a few minutes and should be done once a year or when needed.

 

Oh I forgot to mention why a dirty throttle body can cause surging or bucking. It lets in small amounts of air when closed and can sometimes cause this problem.

 

try driving a 10 speed Semi-Truck , like I do all day long!! ......I float'em in all 10 gears! ...sound's like your just feathering the throttle at slow speed and jerking the engine!.....which is normal at throttle sensitivity......doe's the tranny smell after awhile ?