sharp218

Weird race today, I was kinda suprised at the outcome.
This guy at work just bought a 2004 red 9-3 Linear 5 speed. He kept telling me how the car was fast, but I dismissed it as a slow euro 4cyl. Just to shut him up, we met up on a back road. Having a 50 hp advantage, I knew that I SHOULD win. We both punch it.
And...the Saab pulls! Hard! By about 60 my front bumper is even with his rear bumper. What!?
Let's try that from a roll, the road was a bit sandy.
30 mph, both in second gear. Floor it. He walks away again. We shut down just before 80, with about a half-CL gap between us (and he was still slowly walking).
I ask him about any mods, he says the car is completely stock (About 60k miles).
My car is stock too (about 110k miles)

Now, I know his car is a 5 speed, but a 50 hp advantage is pretty big. Curb weight isn't an issue either, I think my car weighs only about 50 lb more (according to one website).
The Saab totally surprised me, I can only imagine what the Aero is capable of.
Anyone else have experience racing Saabs with their TLs?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Hmm..according to Car and Driver the curb weight is about 3200lb for the base model (Linear). However, they also tested a Vector model and it took 7.3s to 60mph, and 15.4s@93mph for the 1/4mile. These numbers are about the same as the TL-P. Also as you already know it has 210hp and 6-spd manual. Since this is a higher trim model than the Linear model, its weight is heavier at 3361lb, which is still less than the TL-P.

So, it's really a mystery as to why you lost to him....may be it had a reflash that your co-worker didn't know?

sharp218

I really have no idea, I was surprised how quick the car was. Was the C&D Vector stick or auto? I thought the Vector/Arc/Aero with the 210 hp motor would be quicker to 60 than that.
I got a ride in his car and it sounded stock. From what I've seen on YouTube, at full boost, the 'Turbo' gague on ECU modded Saabs (like BSR, for example) usually dips into the 'redline' a bit (as the boost is bumped). However, his car seemed completely stock and the turbo gague never exceeded stock levels.
Maybe 9-3s get alot faster with age?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

The C&D Vector had a 6spd manual. Yea, the testers were surprised that the Saab wasn't as fast as expected too. May be the conditions weren't that great for the turbo engine that day?

It's possible that they get faster once they age, some cars like our TL and Infiniti's do that. May be there's something wrong with your car? Afterall, you have 110k miles and perhaps the engine is getting dirty?

Also, I just noticed you said you were in 2nd gear at 30mph when you started the race. At that speed, 1st gear would be a better choice as you'd be at around 5000rpm instead of 3000rpm at 2nd gear. The Saab has a lot of torque from low rpm and thus starting in 2nd gear at that speed wouldn't hurt its performance by too much.

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

Where you start in your powerband plays a huge part. Don't forget those saabs have gobbs of torque with that turbo. It performs much better in the mid-range so if you both started at 30mph in 2nd gear then he will have a huge advantage on you. He puts out more torque at that speed and RPM and he has the manual tranny advantage with shorter gearing. Now if you start at a 45-50MPH roll you should have a nice advantage on him. 80+MPH and up is also a good advantage for you. Did you race from a slow roll to begin with or from a dead stop? Those saabs tend to bog off the line from a dead stop if they are not launched properly. So it seems more likely that from a slow 10MPH roll he would take you since his turbo wouldn't bog so much at that point. Your top end is much stronger than the saabs though.

erick3

from what i've HEARD, those things have the sti engines in them? except vertical??????!!!

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

They did it twice, once from 30mph, and the other time from a deadstop, and he lost both times. I guess his friend launched his car has a higher rpm than usual, so bogging down wasn't a problem either. Our cars would bog down too as we don't have a lot of low end torque.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I don't think so. For one, STi engines are boxer engines, while Saab engines are inline-4 design.

sharp218

I guess first gear may have been a better choice from the roll, but I thought second would do fine. Mind you, the races weren't complete blowouts, he never won by more than a CL.
Still, the result was unexpected. My car is in good shape, despite the miles and age.
I guess at 30 mph in second he was making more power than I expected.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea, those turbocharged engines are tuned for low-end and midrange torque. Next time try using 1st gear, I'm sure you will have a much better chance.

lifetimeofwar

I know for a fact that if you were in second gear in SS mode, your car would have automatically shifted from 2end gear to 1st gear at 30mph. The result is a bit surprising to say the least... try again from a roll and make sure your under 30mph. Good luck.

Huge Edit:
sorry about that^ I just read it was a SECOND GEN, not a Third Generation like the avatar..

sharp218

Actually brownie, youre right, the car at 30 mph forces you to use second, it won't downshift even when you punch it.
But you can still force it to first if you want using the 1<>2 on the bottom of the shiftgate (on 2G cars).
My mother and father both own 3Gs (yes, my family owns 3 Acura TLs), even the auto '05 would shit all over the Saab for sure.

paul_huryk

Saab turbos have not been known to have very high HP, but have very good torque curves. More "area under the curve" equals better acceleration. The new ones are up to 250hp as no one would buy a $35K sport sedan with 200hp when everything else has 240hp+ these days. Saab is made by GM if you weren't aware....

sharp218

I'm aware theyre made by GM.
I just didn't think a 175 hp car with almost the same weight would walk away from me.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

also try sea foaming your car, that stuff can do wonders to how your car performs

sharp218

Car is in great shape, my dealership replaced the transmission about 6k miles ago and checked over the engine. They said it was in excellent mechanical condition (for an 8 year old car).

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

icic. I just seafoamed by car today (has 90000miles on it), and there's a noticeable gain in power, especially at the top end. Before, I could barely feel the "VTEC kick" at 5000rpm, the kick is much more apparent now. But if your car is in great shape, then I guess it's not necessary?

sharp218

Its never been seafoamed, I've heard it does wonders though. I guess it couldn't hurt.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

yeaa, that's what I thought too, and I got some spare time, so I did it, and it turned out to be great, and it wasn't too $$ too!