John5000

Well here is another case of a very disappointed customer. I have finally got to a point in my life and career where I could afford a car in this price range. I would expect a car that cost in the mid $30s to ride semi decently on the highway without my freakin hand about ready to shake off the steering wheel. After 3 attempts to get the vibration fixed at different Acura dealers and supposedly road forced I give up. I am about ready to drive this POS off a cliff and yes I have Michelin tires. I called Acura customer service and they said this is a normal characteristic of the car and they are investigating the problem. Well I guess I will be investigating my state's lemon law and will probably never buy another Acura or Honda product for that matter. Since I am in a job in which I travel a lot and have the privilege of associating with many other people, I will ensure I spread the word about Acura's great $35K normal characteristic vibrating POS.


05 TL/NAVI/6 spd

vp911

Welcome to the forums. Sorry to hear about your problems. I am having somewhat similar problems, but not that bad - yet. :-\

rets

Sorry to heat that you have such serious and unacceptable vibration on your TL.


Do you have vibration in high speed driving? Or at 1500 RPM/5th gear?

ASPEC05

i have a similar problem but my vibration comes from the think summer a-spec tires

thesaint7

Just curious here. I've read about this and it concerns me, becuse? I just pickup up my 05! Anyway I was talking to my dad who happens to be a SAAB Tech and told him about some people complaining about vibration. I'm wondering if its the front end that vibrates or something else? If its the front end it could be the wheels, try and rotate them and see if you still have the problem.

John5000

I get the vibration at speeds of 65 and greater. I do have the summer spec tires and was open to the idea of going to the all season Michelins to see if they would help, but the Acura Customer Care service didn't seem very open to the idea of changing out the tires. They were almost certain it was the "characteristic" of this car which is pretty disappointing. The thing that really makes me mad is that everything else about this car is so great, the motor, the nav, the look. Everything else is so perfect, I dont understand how the engineers could have overlooked the drivability issue. I think they forgot about the V in reducing NVH. The tires have been rotated twice, with no resolve and when they did the road force the dealer said none of the tires were out of round. I have the 6-speed, so this is not the 1500 rpm auto vibration issue. It almost feels like a bad cowl shake, like the car needs a strut tower brace.

rets

This vibration would not be the typical "characteristic" vibration we used to talk about. IMO, your vibration seems to have higher possibility to get fixed. Tyres, alignment, strut, etc, could be the factors.

downtown

Could this be a fwd problem related to the high HP/torque at the front wheels.

RWD cars are more stable.

John5000

The alignment has been checked and the tires rotated which gives me doubt that it will be an easy fix. I do hope they can fix it, but my hopes are not high. Reading the horror stories of others going with the BBB, I will give them two more tries and if there is no fix I will go straight with the lemon law. I might be slightly more forgiving if this were a 25kor less car, but I paid 35K for this thing and I should not have to be dealing with this. My '99 Trans am had a better ride on the highway than this thing does.

fsttyms1

that would have nothing to do with it. there is somethig wrong.
have teh dealer swap out a different set of rims/tires off a different Tl and see if it still happens. then you could eliminate or narrow down what is the cause.

tlshopper

Just curious as I am looking at buying an 05 TL. How many miles/months before you start to notice this? I assume there were no issues on the test drive.

Thanks

TerminaderTL

.... but it cetainly is NOT characteristic of the TL.

My 2005 is two months old with 1500 miles. It is smooth from idle through warm-up through 90 MPh, highway or street.

It's so quiet, I sometime forget to upshift my SS and redline the engine.

It's so quiet, people talking to me through my Bluetooth connection think I am at home on a landline.

It's so quiet, I whisper voice commands.

SnappyPappy

You my friend - are hard of hearing. . . The road noise in this car is higher than I expected. . . My BMW and Toyota are much quieter. However, I have not experienced the dreaded vibration problem spoken of in this tread. I have 12,000+ miles and drive agressively. The car is smooth at all speeds. (whew)

John5000

I have about 2000 miles on the car now. I am going to push the dealer to see if they can at least try to swap tires on the car. I just could not believe that Acura took the stance that it is a normal condition and that I would have to live with it until they could come up with a fix. Too bad for me and how silly for me to think I was buying a quality product with the Acura name. I wont hesitate to write all the car rags and let them know how great this vibrating POS is.

fsttyms1

i would have them try to sawp out rims and tires just to check and help eliminate thats its not the rims also

thesaint7

I would try the tire/rim swap. Also, try checking the rim and see if there's anything wrong. I had a highspeed vibration on my last car due to a rim that was bent (hardly noticable unless rubbed your hand over it)

I hope it gets resolved, this car is fun and I have to say extreamly quite

I'll do some research to see if we can help you out here

John5000

Thanks for your help. I do also hope they actually try to swap rims and tires, although I don't know how many teeth will be required to be pulled to make them do that. Hopefully it will be resolved, I'd rather not go through the headache of a lemon law process. Although I will if this does not get fixed, I am not going to live with this "characteristic" for the rest of the time I own the car or eat the cost of depreciation for trading it in right away.

tlshopper

John,
How many miles do you have on the car? Was there nothing odd you felt when you took delivery of the car?

Thanks
Mike

John5000

I've got about 2000 on it now. When I first test drove it I didn't really notice it, but it may have been there. I might have been caught up in the euphoria of all the gizmos in the car. I pretty much started noticing it the next week after ownership. My wife tried to get the balance fixed since I had to go off on a business trip. They gave her the ring a mo role and told her it was because of the high performance tires and normal for this car. Well now that I am back in town I am now starting to kick some a$$ and am not putting up with the excuse that it is normal.

tlshopper

Thanks John. I am going to test drive again this week and make sure I focus on nothing but vibration.

gt1

TL cruisnig at 70MPH will generate about as many HO as Camry or any other car of similar shape and dimention. Those extra horses are getting use only during accelerations.

What can a custmore do, when dealer claims a normal behavior? Vibration is not a parameter written in specs. It probably can be measured with accelerometers, but what is acceptabel and what is not? I am afraid this is a grey area, where we are at the mercy of dealers. And the have none.

Prolanman

The problem sounds like a tire/wheel issue. When you get vibration at higher speeds like that, it is typically a balance issue. I have an 05 with the AS Michelins on it and don't get any vibration like you speak of at higher speeds. It is definately NOT a charateristic of the car.

Rsvl05TL

Just my .02 here as well

I would go back to the dealer where you bought the car and demand to take another 05 TL/6MT with the exact same tire and rim set up as that on your car for a test drive......if the same type of vibration is experienced under the same conditions then it can be said to be a "known characteristic" of that car. If no similar vibration is felt or noticed then it is specific to your car and the dealership/Acura should repair the problem or replace the car

You might have already done this, but if not it may help prove your point that it is your vs. a "known and acceptable characteristic" of the TL

Rsvl05TL

Just my .02 here as well

I would go back to the dealer where you bought the car and demand to take another 05 TL/6MT with the exact same tire and rim set up as that on your car for a test drive......if the same type of vibration is experienced under the same conditions then it can be said to be a "known characteristic" of that car. If no similar vibration is felt or noticed then it is specific to your car and the dealership/Acura should repair the problem or replace the car

You might have already done this, but if not it may help prove your point that it is your car vs. a "known and acceptable characteristic" of the TL

tfe691

It's the rims. They are cool looking but suck. My tsx did it now my tl. And i agree i love the car but for $35k vibration. On my tsx I swapped wheels with moda r6 and vibration was still there and they were 6 pounds heavier then stock. I went through 2 sets of tires thinking it was the tires. I eventually got SSR GT2 that weighed 16.8 pounds a piece where as stock was 22-24 pounds stock i don't recall. And i could now go 65-100mph no vibration what so ever. Also you can tell on my tl that they had a balancing issue there is 6ounces of weight on the drivers side wheel.

mickey3c

It is rare that you swap out rims and tires that were balanced and the issue is resolved. I mean come on people. Yea I have felt wheel vibration before but not on a new car with cherry rims and new tires that were balanced. It is a troubleshooting method called shot gunning in this case. Having two cars, it steered me away from acura for my second purchase. They do not know what is causing the problem but like in the butt print problem, it is very annoying and now is a feature of the car. They need to put the entire package to gether to get business and now they are relying on looks, price, and 0-60 times.

TLs are the cash cow car for acura and they cannot get it right after two tries... 2G and now 3G. No, not all cars are perfect, but issues like this stick with you. And if you were one person who finally was able to afford a near luxury car, then you might expect to have to keep it for a while as well. So you have to take a loss on a car or battle acura using the lemon laws. And I am sure that these problems will be well known, so if you baby it and keep it for 3 years and decide to trade it in, be prepared to hear that the model year you have was well known for driveline vibrations. Sure if you are trading it in on another TL they will have to stand by the product.. But hell would you want to spend 37,000 3 years from now to see if your luck and acura's luck has changed...

Prolanman

John,
Have you tried having the tires road forced balanced outside of the dealership? Have you tried going to another dealership and asking them to look at the car?Not all dealerships have the proper equipment to road force balance the tires. Low profile tires can be a little more difficult to balance. Also with these rims hitting a pothole can cause the rim to bend slightly which can also be giving you the vibration at higher speeds.

I drive at 75 -80 MPH on a regular basis and do not have these issues (AS Michelins). There is a chance that the HP Tires can be causing the problem. If this is the case you will need to deal with the tire manufacturer, not the Acura dealer to get the problem resolved.

mickey3c

I do have to agree that if you guys have never had low profile tires, then you are in for a surprise if you drive in the northeast where potholes are common. The lower the profile the easier it is to damage the tire/wheel. Balancing can be thrown off and on my second gen, a pothole hit with the 50 series tires trashed the tire but the rim was ok. The tech said that there was a slight balance problem at lower speeds which cleared up at a higher speed and that I would not notice it on the higway at all and I did not.

tlshopper

If I may jump back in again, is this more common with the HP tires? Do the "stock" (whatever that means) have less issues? I think this has been asked but I continue to confuse myself. John, what tires do you have?

Thanks

John5000

I live in the South East and do not have any pot hole issues in this area. Also, I know what low profile tires and big rims are supposed to feel like. Traded a 02 3.5 SE Altima w/18" rims for this car. I also used to own a '99 T/A with 18" rims and low profile tires. Also have tried two different dealers and paid $30 out of pocket with another tire joint to see if the problem could be fixed with no luck. As far as the perception of vibration goes, I think if my hand is moving left and right about a 1/2" each way each second, then that is pretty easy to quantify and accelerometers will not be required.

SnappyPappy

<scratching head> wanna run all that by me again?? PS what is an HO? In New York I know what a HO is - but . . .well???

SnappyPappy

If yer hands are vibrating 1/2 inch each way and Acura sez this is "normal", we got us a whole new difinition of what 'normal' is!!! Drop off the car (service) and let THEM troubleshoot the problem. What you describe is not NORMAL on this vehicle. Yes, some very slight vib may be normal as this car is big on road feel but the wheel should NOT move at speed in your hands. I have a slight and varying vib in my BMW depending on road condition charateristic of tight steering feedback. Drive a Lexus LS430 and you'll get NO vib or much road feel. But that is a whole different automobile.

mickey3c

I have to agree here about the 1/2 vibration.... That is not normal. And as far as a slight vibration goes. You should not feel anything on a new car that has brand new tires and rims that are balanced properly. A road feel is one thing a vibration is another. If you had gone through several seasons of NE weather and there was a very slight vibration at crusing speeds I would say well maybe it is time for some new rims or a balance job. But this is not normal.

If you have a mechanic that you know (I have a former HS classmate) and you take it to them and have them test drive it, it would be interesting to see what they have to say. Normal to some people is what they are used to seeing/feeling. So it could be a normal problem with the car.


Has anyone tried to put taller profile tires on the car to see what happens? like 50s or 55s if they fit?

rexracer

I'm pretty much in the same boat. Bring the car to the dealer a second time to fix. They couldn't find anything wrong with the balancing. Dealer is going to take to a sister dealership to have the tires and rims balanced with a Hunter machine. Quick question. Can a balance machine determine of the rims are slightly bent? Do they have to remove the tires from the rim to do this?

KJSmitty

The Hunter machine will check for out of round/bent rims. It's part of the process the tech should perform as he is balancing. This s done with the tire on the rim.

Now, after saying that,,, The only true way to check for a rim issue is to remove the tire and check for "run-out" error at the inner rim area were the tire mounts etc. - at the inner rim bead, with the use of a micrometer.

John5000

Just picked the car up after dealer said they actually had to rotate some tires on the rim for the road force balance this time. It is better but the vibration is still there. It is now reduced to a weird type of harmonic shimmy in the steering wheel at speeds around 70 mph. I think my hand was numb after driving for around 20 minutes on the highway with the way it is now. Oh by the way, the dealer managed to put a couple decent sized nicks in one of my rims. If the vibration had disappeared, then I think I would have forgave this, but it is still there. Looks like I will have to fight with Acura to see if there is any way they would be willing to try to put the other Michelins on the car, since I have the Hi-Perf summer tires. Also, the loaner they gave me, a lowly POS RSX had no vibrations what so ever and I'm sure has been ragged on by every one and their brother. The one thing I did notice was that it was assembled in Japan. Its sad to say, but it appears that things assembled in Japan are screwed together a little better. Almost like how the Nissan Maxima had great reliability, until they moved production to here in the US and now it's a QA nightmare. Apparently they are having issues with this model in the Ohio plant. Lets see, so far I have had to travel over 300 miles total and waisted around 4 days of my time trying to get this POS fixed correctly, and it still is not right. So much for my theory of not having mechanical issues by buying a quality Acura product. :angryfire

HiG4s

I drove three different TLs before I bought,, which tires you get can make a lot of difference in the road noise.. I don't have any vibration problems except in the morning on cold tires, they seem to hold their flat spot after sitting all night.. I have the Bridgestone Potenza summer high performance tires and get more road noise than I am happy with and it rides harsher than with the all seasons, but still not really that bad. I will probably change the Pireilli P-zero Nero all seasons when these tire wear out.


It sounds like one of the rims is just bad and they probably moved it to the back thinking you wouldn't be able to notice it..

I have had several Hondas (86 Accord, 98 Civic, 03 Element and my 04 TL) built in Marysville and so far only two issues were both with the Civic. A chip went bad and the wipers wouldn't shut off, it was covered.
And the exhaust manifold cracked at 98K well after the warranty was up but Honda fixed it for free anyway. Also had a 98 Integra built in Japan,, it had no issues.

260 HP

iTrader: (3)

As far as made in Japan vs America goes, I have a 95 Accord, built in OH, has 217k miles and no problem so far. I've replaced the fuel sending unit, brake master cylinder, and that's it, besides normal maintenance stuff.

Back to your problem: I think it's balancing problem. It's proven by them rotating/swapping the tires and wheels. 6MT doesn't have the inherent harmonic vibration problem.

If you can meet another member who'd be willing to swap his/her wheels/tires with you for a day or two, you can totally proof if the problem is with the car or the wheels/tires.

mickey3c

1995 was a totally different car... The tl is made even cheaper than that was...

rexracer

I’m very disappointed in the quality of my TL. My car is at the dealer right now for the second time to correct the steering wheel vibration which I think is a balancing issue (steering wheel vibrates between 60-80 mph even with my foot off the gas pedal). The car has also developed an annoying rattle on passenger’s side (seems to be coming from the door or “A” pillar). My car’s steering wheel cover was not centered. Dealer fixed that last visit. Alignment was also off. Dealer fixed that last visit as well. Acura should hire me as their senior quality manager. I would do a better job. There is no excuse for these quality issues.