ky5totan

Guys, I just got my 07 WDP TL few months ago, I like the car very much. But I have a question you guys might help me w/ that. Basically as we all know 07 TL horse power being cut to 258 from yr04/05 270 since its not that big difference. Today I test drove my friend's 08 BMW 3 series 328I w/ 230 horse power on it, then I felt like a huge difference I mainly talking about the horse power when I felt that I step hard on its gas comparing to my car. Any one could kindly explain to me why was that since TL gets more horse power than bmw but feels like BMW 3 series has much much more power then TL even the sporty shift? I am thinking stupid that would be any problem of my used car or its normal if comparing to bmw? I am appreciated for any of your guys help with that problem.

SpiderX1016

Yeah, we know about the 270hp to 258hp but that was because of how they rated it. They never changed the engine.

What your feeling is probably torque (that throw you back to the seat feeling) not hp but the TL has more torque so I don't know. They should be about the same performance wise.

gotkilled

iTrader: (1)

hrm...i thought the TL lacks torque in the lower rpm band range but im not too sure...

Bayam0n

maybe there something wrong with your TL?? I have raced a couple of soem 3 series, and performance wise (base against base) my TL out performed them, and when facing a 5 series, it's quick at the start, but my TL was able to pass withen seconds. maybe being in a different car after being in a TL would give the illusion that its faster.

LostSol

the 3 series is RWD! thats why it feels 'faster' from a dig with less horse power, because it probably is! the TL is a FANTASTIC car, dont get me wrong, but it will always be handicapped against cars in its class by the fact that its FWD.

Bayam0n

I would like to see how those cars hold up in the snow

but the man gots a very valid point, its RWD.

TeknoKing

BMW/Benz/Audi have excellent lower gear torque..e x c e l l e n t.... TLs do not..FWD.

But once 3rd gear hits in a TL - BMW begins to die a little.. so above 40mph... bmw 328i really has no chance to keep up. (I owned one before, so I know)

Ramrodthrusterpuppy

RWD does fine in the snow....it's all about the tires.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

I'm thinking that the 3er is lighter, RWD (less hp lost at the wheels), BMW understates their HP & lack of low end torque on the TL may explain your feelings.

AMUA6

iTrader: (7)

<Waits for IHC to chime in....>

ky5totan

But shouldn't be a big difference of feeling it b/w TL and 3-series? wouldn't be any specific problem of my TL casue it feel less power?

LostSol

the difference youre feeling comes from the different powertrain layout. RWD cars launch better so will give you a better feeling of acceleration. FWD cars tend not to bite as well off the line and are usually more sluggish until higher speed.

Also remember, that BMW has a 6 speed transmission, so a higher gear ratio in first helps with that extra oomph as well.

Finally the torque curve on the BMW straight sixes is very fat, ive driven a 09 328i and it made my car feel slow as hell off the line.

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

BMW: Low end torque, RWD, and N**(N54 I think?) engine

At the end of the day, the TL would win, but not by long.

Just add the RV6 J-pipe too your TL and you would feel a comfortable increase in Low End Torque.

ky5totan

appreciated with your explaination. I drove my friend 328i yesterday accelerated to 4th gear it was mad fast and felt like very powerful. no offense that I feel my TL was real slow as hell like 4 cyl car. so my TL is normal rite?

TeknoKing

if your TL-S feels really slow, you are doing it wrong.

a) honda engines respond to weather conditions - hot weather it will adjust to compensate for air density, bmw does not, thus their engines do not last as long.

b) tires? spin? planting more hp on the ground will result in excellent acceleration for a FWD

c) 328i may feel faster as it is a smaller & lighter car, and let's not forget, it's like sitting on the bench with a steering wheel...you do feel the sensation of speed.

I will murder a 328i...

Bayam0n

+1... also wait another month and you'll see Richie unviel a new exhaust system for the TL base and type-s, I've heard that it's gonna be badazzz and totally outperform other exhaust systems for the TL...

newfrito11

Bayam0n: any info on this?

Bayam0n

Rich even told me himself, that he is working on a exhaust design, and that was a month ago, then today someone told me his car was actually on the dyno for this exhaust, and it was kicking ASS... the other exhausts dont have a chance

Clean>Rice

Um....I smoke 328i's all the time. It might seem like its fast cuz of the sound (TL's arent very loud...) or something. I guarantee you, your TL is faster 0-60, 1/4 mile, etc. But if you are driving AT, just dont floor it RIGHT OFF THE LINE. you dont want that wheel spin. but once you are moving, pedal to the metal.

"real slow as hell like 4 cyl car" idk about that. TSX is a BIG 4 cylinder car (free breather), and it takes more than 7 sec to get to 60. your TL can do it under 6.

P1zzaman

iTrader: (1)

I beat a current gen BMW 328i with my 07 5AT. Not by much, but not too bad either.

csmeance

The 328i has a few differences vs the TL that make it seem faster. The first of these is the way BMW makes it's transmissions. First gear is VERY short in the 6sp transmissions so the motor can get into the powerband a lot faster. This gives you that feeling of instant torque and power versus the TL which needs a little longer to spin up. The second advantage of the BMW is it's size and weight, it's a lot lighter and smaller than the TL and will require less torque to get it moving.

LostSol

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...

SmileyOr

The 3 series BMW is between 200 and 300 pounds lighter than the TL. As others have stated the BMW's have a higher low end torque that helps to give that quickness off the line.

I had an older 528i that only had 170 hp and 169 fptq. It felt very strong low end, but still took 8 seconds+ to get to 60 mph. It was only 3,300 pounds in 1980

MrX123

Really? Can you elaborate on this?

ky5totan

Thanks for your info. really helpful a lot!

TeknoKing

Ever noticed in hot weather, you press on the gas, and the TL feels like is a v4...the air is full of humidity, so the combustion aren't as good, ECU compensates it for it by regulating the air/fuel mixture = combustion. It is all about air density... You can take yourself as an example, do you breathe easier during hot or cold days? During hot days how do you compensate? by slowing down, adjusting to the temp... hondas have some brilliant engineers, their cars truly are built to drive to 200K without a hitch.

In a bmw, no matter when you press the gas, it will always drives the same..which is a fun thing, I must admit. There is a slow down for them too, but not as great, they seem to be built better to fight heat soaking, they are more performances geared and not really for longevity. After all, it is a bmw, "a driving machine", not a honda.

I honestly dont have the technical info, but I heard this before from people that built engines. Sorry for my vagueness.

MrX123

No it's cool man. I know exactly what you mean about the power sap, but on my car specifically it's no worse than on any other cars I've experienced. I wouldn't be a happy camper if it totally bogged it down, however.

SpiderX1016

Cars have IATs for temperature and V4?
The PCM will always keep changing the AF mixture. MAP or MAF, doesn't matter.

TeknoKing

Of course, but on German cars, the throttle response is not as dumbified as on hondas. I punched my 328, regardless of the weather, normal driving would always feel fine except with a/c on, lol, it felt like i had a parachute deployed in back holding me down...

myron

iTrader: (4)

last night a 4 door 328 with exhaust (sounded different than a normal 328) wanted to race me. there was no traffic on the road but I still didn't wanna do it. He kept pulling up to me, reving his engine, having small pulls then backing off, being a douche bag.

he followed me to the empty road leading out of the city (that's the way I go to my house anyways) and we did 2 pulls, from a complete stop and from a roll. From the stop I couldn't get traction but I caught up in 3rd gear. And from a roll we went from about 50km/h, in the 2nd gear (2500-3000rpm) and I pulled on him in every gear. I shut it down at about 140-150km/h and he just flew past me.
I have no performance mods on my car what so ever.

I hate cars

Well, the goal is to keep the AF the same regardless of conditions.

MAP vs MAF does matter somewhat and especially when the mods start but that's not the topic. Speed Density (MAP) calculates the amount of air entering the engine via rpm, temperature, throttle position, manifold vacuum and several other parameters. MAF actually measures air entering the engine. I prefer the system that measures air rather than calculates it. Both check the end result via 02 sensors. MAP is fine for a stock car but it's always possible for weather extremes to slightly "confuse" it.