00 S2000 vs 03 TL-S?
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00 S2000 vs 03 TL-S?
what do you guys think. I'm sure most of you know my car by now, the S2K has intake and headers. I raced him from a slow roll off of a light and i was dead even with him until he missed 3rd. He swears up and down that he could pull on me in 3rd. what do u guys think? i dont have too much expirience with S2Ks
#2
I'm Down Right Fierce!
Against the 2000 S2k you stand a good chance. He only has intake and headers, which gives moderate boosts to the F20c engine.
His real advantage lies in the tranny; the timing on those 6 speeds are very quick. But in my experience, the pre 03's aren't "that" fast.
Now an 03+ S2K with those mods are much faster. The 03+ boast the F22C1 engine and an even quicker 6 speed (especially in the first 3-4 gears).
His real advantage lies in the tranny; the timing on those 6 speeds are very quick. But in my experience, the pre 03's aren't "that" fast.
Now an 03+ S2K with those mods are much faster. The 03+ boast the F22C1 engine and an even quicker 6 speed (especially in the first 3-4 gears).
#7
'10 Hyundai Genesis Coupe
They really should make gears for the TL, that would be the best mod ever. I ran a S2K once it seemed like my 3rd gear was letting me catch up to him, but he had pulled me by a car in 2nd, he probably let off.
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Originally Posted by BraveDemon
Against the 2000 S2k you stand a good chance. He only has intake and headers, which gives moderate boosts to the F20c engine.
His real advantage lies in the tranny; the timing on those 6 speeds are very quick. But in my experience, the pre 03's aren't "that" fast.
Now an 03+ S2K with those mods are much faster. The 03+ boast the F22C1 engine and an even quicker 6 speed (especially in the first 3-4 gears).
His real advantage lies in the tranny; the timing on those 6 speeds are very quick. But in my experience, the pre 03's aren't "that" fast.
Now an 03+ S2K with those mods are much faster. The 03+ boast the F22C1 engine and an even quicker 6 speed (especially in the first 3-4 gears).
I had an 02 S2 with intake, exhaust and I could pull on a type-s pretty good, both roll and from a stop. It is a drivers race, but with that auto in the type-s, you are at a disadvantage. Depending on what intake and header he has, chances are he has the same power output as you, and he weighs about 4-500 lbs less than you.
If it is from a stop, depending on how well he can launch, most likely he will have you beat. I was able to pull off a 2.0 60' at the track with a 30MPH headwind to slow me down, so he could get a big jump on you right there.
3rd gear does pull extremely hard in the S2's and if he does not out launch you, he will be passing you by the time you reach about 40-50 MPH. 0-60 on the S2 is in the 5 second range to give you an idea, with a 1/4 of high 13's with a good driver.
Good luck with the race though!
#15
i put my money on the S2k thats if he knows how to drive. But if he's a sorry driver all my money goes to the TL. I raced my brother s2k b4 three time.. He's not a bad driver either. when i was on my stock wheels i can always jump then second gear he'll get even and third gear.. ME KISSING HIS ASS. im not gonna lie S2k ARe fast.. BUT WHEN I SPRAY THEY HAVE NO CHANCE..
#16
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Originally Posted by DIRTYJOHN
i put my money on the S2k thats if he knows how to drive. But if he's a sorry driver all my money goes to the TL. I raced my brother s2k b4 three time.. He's not a bad driver either. when i was on my stock wheels i can always jump then second gear he'll get even and third gear.. ME KISSING HIS ASS. im not gonna lie S2k ARe fast.. BUT WHEN I SPRAY THEY HAVE NO CHANCE..
#17
I'm Down Right Fierce!
Originally Posted by johnny--2k
This is wrong. The 04+ have the F22C1. No more horsepower, a bit more torque at peak, about 15 ft-lbs at some points in the RPM band, but 1000 less RPM. Redline at 8 instead of 9K. Gears are still the same 4.11 gear ratio.
I had an 02 S2 with intake, exhaust and I could pull on a type-s pretty good, both roll and from a stop. It is a drivers race, but with that auto in the type-s, you are at a disadvantage. Depending on what intake and header he has, chances are he has the same power output as you, and he weighs about 4-500 lbs less than you.
If it is from a stop, depending on how well he can launch, most likely he will have you beat. I was able to pull off a 2.0 60' at the track with a 30MPH headwind to slow me down, so he could get a big jump on you right there.
3rd gear does pull extremely hard in the S2's and if he does not out launch you, he will be passing you by the time you reach about 40-50 MPH. 0-60 on the S2 is in the 5 second range to give you an idea, with a 1/4 of high 13's with a good driver.
Good luck with the race though!
I had an 02 S2 with intake, exhaust and I could pull on a type-s pretty good, both roll and from a stop. It is a drivers race, but with that auto in the type-s, you are at a disadvantage. Depending on what intake and header he has, chances are he has the same power output as you, and he weighs about 4-500 lbs less than you.
If it is from a stop, depending on how well he can launch, most likely he will have you beat. I was able to pull off a 2.0 60' at the track with a 30MPH headwind to slow me down, so he could get a big jump on you right there.
3rd gear does pull extremely hard in the S2's and if he does not out launch you, he will be passing you by the time you reach about 40-50 MPH. 0-60 on the S2 is in the 5 second range to give you an idea, with a 1/4 of high 13's with a good driver.
Good luck with the race though!
Did you ever race an 02-03 Type S with I/H/E/P/S? Cause I've beaten several pre 04 S2k's on the highway. Of course, they were moderately modded, but I still think SicktypeS has a decent chance from a roll. Launching is a different story... I hear launching the S2K is extremely difficult, thus I'm not certain who'd win.
Anyway, here's something I just happened to find from a simple search in google.. I originally heard this information from a friend who had an 02 S2k, but then traded it in for the larger displacement 05 S2k. And it seems like other people (via the internet) are speaking the same truth. The following was found at:
http://www.s2000.com/2004.php
Improved Acceleration
To improve acceleration, the old adage "there's no replacement for displacement" was applied. Through the use of a longer stroke (increased to 90.7mm from 84mm), the motor's displacement was increased from 1997cc (2.0L) to 2157 cc (2.2L), resulting in basically a 500rpm shift of the horsepower curve (to the left, on the rpm scale), meaning the new motor basically makes the the same power as the older F20C, simply 500rpms sooner at basically every point on the curve. Compression has been bumped up a tenth of a point to 11.1 (from 11.0:1) and the valve timing has been altered to further enhance mid-range performance. On paper, the numbers translate to 240hp at 7800 rpm (vs 240hp@8300 rpm) and 162 lb-ft @ 6500 rpm (vs 153 lb-ft @ 7500 rpm).
It might seem trivial to simply lengthen the stroke of a given motor, but there are several major design details to consider. Foremost in this case are the increased loads acting on the piston sides. In the 8000+ rpm neighborhood where the S2000 takes residence, these become quite significant, resulting in unstable piston movement. To mitigate this phenomenon, Honda has improved the accuracy of the cylinder machining process to an extremly high level. Borrowing a technique from race engine building programs, Honda used a dummy head honing technique to simulate the cylinder bore deformation that occurs when the cylinder head is bolted to the block (imagine the bore diameter enlarging slightly and with irregularity as the cylinder bore is compressed). In other words, the bores are honed while a dummy head is bolted to the block. This technique results in bore deformation that's reportedly less than 25% of the deformation on a block which has been bored using normal methods.
The enlarged displacement results in a 6-10% improvement in horsepower and torque from 1000 to 8000 rpms. For Honda this improvement alone wasn't enough. A tighter secondary gear reduction ratio (1.206 vs 1.16) is specified to provide a bit more snap off the line and to better match the characteristics of the new motor. This results in effectively 4% shorter ratios for 1st through 4th gears while the 5th ratio is effectively 1% shorter. 6th is effectively 2% longer, for a slightly more relaxed cruise speed. Due to the additional torque of the new 2.2L motor (and possibly due to real-world issues with the 2.0L drivetrain), the S2000's transmission features a redesigned clutch, clutch case, and differential.
To reduce the "impact torque" of a high rpm clutch dump, the new clutch has an additional orifice at the sleeve cylinder, which reduces the torque reaction acting on the drivetrain. The clutch case has incorporated additional rib reinforcements to reduce vibrations and noises generated by the drivetrain. The additional ribs have improved clutch case rigidity by approximately 10%. The differential has been beefed up considerably as well. By moving to an FCD material (from FC), the case rigidity was improved by 40% while the overall case strength was increased 20%. Gear fatigue resistance was also improved by 5% through a change in the shot peening method for the drive pinion gear.
To improve acceleration, the old adage "there's no replacement for displacement" was applied. Through the use of a longer stroke (increased to 90.7mm from 84mm), the motor's displacement was increased from 1997cc (2.0L) to 2157 cc (2.2L), resulting in basically a 500rpm shift of the horsepower curve (to the left, on the rpm scale), meaning the new motor basically makes the the same power as the older F20C, simply 500rpms sooner at basically every point on the curve. Compression has been bumped up a tenth of a point to 11.1 (from 11.0:1) and the valve timing has been altered to further enhance mid-range performance. On paper, the numbers translate to 240hp at 7800 rpm (vs 240hp@8300 rpm) and 162 lb-ft @ 6500 rpm (vs 153 lb-ft @ 7500 rpm).
It might seem trivial to simply lengthen the stroke of a given motor, but there are several major design details to consider. Foremost in this case are the increased loads acting on the piston sides. In the 8000+ rpm neighborhood where the S2000 takes residence, these become quite significant, resulting in unstable piston movement. To mitigate this phenomenon, Honda has improved the accuracy of the cylinder machining process to an extremly high level. Borrowing a technique from race engine building programs, Honda used a dummy head honing technique to simulate the cylinder bore deformation that occurs when the cylinder head is bolted to the block (imagine the bore diameter enlarging slightly and with irregularity as the cylinder bore is compressed). In other words, the bores are honed while a dummy head is bolted to the block. This technique results in bore deformation that's reportedly less than 25% of the deformation on a block which has been bored using normal methods.
The enlarged displacement results in a 6-10% improvement in horsepower and torque from 1000 to 8000 rpms. For Honda this improvement alone wasn't enough. A tighter secondary gear reduction ratio (1.206 vs 1.16) is specified to provide a bit more snap off the line and to better match the characteristics of the new motor. This results in effectively 4% shorter ratios for 1st through 4th gears while the 5th ratio is effectively 1% shorter. 6th is effectively 2% longer, for a slightly more relaxed cruise speed. Due to the additional torque of the new 2.2L motor (and possibly due to real-world issues with the 2.0L drivetrain), the S2000's transmission features a redesigned clutch, clutch case, and differential.
To reduce the "impact torque" of a high rpm clutch dump, the new clutch has an additional orifice at the sleeve cylinder, which reduces the torque reaction acting on the drivetrain. The clutch case has incorporated additional rib reinforcements to reduce vibrations and noises generated by the drivetrain. The additional ribs have improved clutch case rigidity by approximately 10%. The differential has been beefed up considerably as well. By moving to an FCD material (from FC), the case rigidity was improved by 40% while the overall case strength was increased 20%. Gear fatigue resistance was also improved by 5% through a change in the shot peening method for the drive pinion gear.
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ok now this kid wants to put money on it. what are my chances of pullin on him in 3rd. he wants to do a 20 roll and shut it off at 110. what are my options for more hp if i can get a few more horsies i think ill be better off.
#19
~~~~~~~~~~~
Depends on how much money and whether or not you can afford to lose. If you were going to do it, only gate shift so you don't get the 2nd to 1st gear hesitation when you hit it at 20mph and run 3rd all the way to 110, don't go in to 4th.
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Originally Posted by BraveDemon
Nice to know you have an 04 S2k, its a sweet car! But they did revise the length of the gears and more displacement will vastly improve speed for various reasons. I never owned an S2k (a former STI owner here) but I would imagine more displacement would have immense benefits, especially when modding.
Did you ever race an 02-03 Type S with I/H/E/P/S? Cause I've beaten several pre 04 S2k's on the highway. Of course, they were moderately modded, but I still think SicktypeS has a decent chance from a roll. Launching is a different story... I hear launching the S2K is extremely difficult, thus I'm not certain who'd win.
Anyway, here's something I just happened to find from a simple search in google.. I originally heard this information from a friend who had an 02 S2k, but then traded it in for the larger displacement 05 S2k. And it seems like other people (via the internet) are speaking the same truth. The following was found at:
http://www.s2000.com/2004.php
Did you ever race an 02-03 Type S with I/H/E/P/S? Cause I've beaten several pre 04 S2k's on the highway. Of course, they were moderately modded, but I still think SicktypeS has a decent chance from a roll. Launching is a different story... I hear launching the S2K is extremely difficult, thus I'm not certain who'd win.
Anyway, here's something I just happened to find from a simple search in google.. I originally heard this information from a friend who had an 02 S2k, but then traded it in for the larger displacement 05 S2k. And it seems like other people (via the internet) are speaking the same truth. The following was found at:
http://www.s2000.com/2004.php
I dont have an 04, I had an 02, sold it along with my 03 TL for my 05 TL. I didn't think, they changed the gearing, but I may be mistaken there. As for the type-s, I raced a few different ones, some stock some not. The not stock ones would keep up for a bit, but once into third gear and higher, it was no longer a "close race" but not a complete demolition either.
Launching the S2 is very hard. To get those numbers at the track I was side-stepping the clutch at about 7K RPM.
#21
i am so smart S M R T
Originally Posted by S1CK TypeS
ok now this kid wants to put money on it. what are my chances of pullin on him in 3rd. he wants to do a 20 roll and shut it off at 110. what are my options for more hp if i can get a few more horsies i think ill be better off.
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ok so i finally raced the S2K heres how it went....
we started from a 25mph roll, i honked 3 times and he instantly jumped ahead by half a car. as soon as i shifted into 2nd i started to catch up, once he took his foot off the gas to switch gears i was neck and neck with him. I shifted into 3rd and he took his foot off the gas to shift into 3rd and i pulled a lil bit. he caught right back up once he shifted. aas soon i was around 5500rpm i started to pull on him by half a car and then we stopped at around 110mph.
S2K has CAI and headers
we started from a 25mph roll, i honked 3 times and he instantly jumped ahead by half a car. as soon as i shifted into 2nd i started to catch up, once he took his foot off the gas to switch gears i was neck and neck with him. I shifted into 3rd and he took his foot off the gas to shift into 3rd and i pulled a lil bit. he caught right back up once he shifted. aas soon i was around 5500rpm i started to pull on him by half a car and then we stopped at around 110mph.
S2K has CAI and headers
#25
That S2000 driver sucked period. You shouldn't have been able to keep up with that car as well as you are describing from your brief description. If your thinking I don't know what I'm talking about, your talking to a guy that use to own a 350z and has racing videos and pics to back it up. But, anyways good Kill if that's what you want to call it.
#26
Originally Posted by southern_info
That S2000 driver sucked period. You shouldn't have been able to keep up with that car as well as you are describing from your brief description. If your thinking I don't know what I'm talking about, your talking to a guy that use to own a 350z and has racing videos and pics to back it up. But, anyways good Kill if that's what you want to call it.
cliff notes :
1. Hater
2. USE to own a 350z
3. knows everything about racing cause he USE to own a 350z
4. again HATER!
LOL sorry dont mean to bash on anyone but i just couldnt help it so if i get a warning or something sorry?
#27
Originally Posted by Sprtan-117
I Smell a HATER! oh and sorry i forgot that just because u USE <----key word USE to own a 350z u knew everything there is to know about racing. LOL!!!!
cliff notes :
1. Hater
2. USE to own a 350z
3. knows everything about racing cause he USE to own a 350z
4. again HATER!
LOL sorry dont mean to bash on anyone but i just couldnt help it so if i get a warning or something sorry?
cliff notes :
1. Hater
2. USE to own a 350z
3. knows everything about racing cause he USE to own a 350z
4. again HATER!
LOL sorry dont mean to bash on anyone but i just couldnt help it so if i get a warning or something sorry?
I went from 03 SS 350Z to a 2004 Acura TL. I can tell you from all my experiences of racing for a very long time track and street racing. #1 An S2000 can keep up with a 350z down low until speeds of 110+. #2 Acura TL can not keep up with a 350Z period unless the Acura TL happens to be F/I. #3 Acura TL vs 350z Been there done that from a roll, which would at a better advantage for the Acura TL not having to go from a dig. #4 I never hated so get that out of your thick skull! I don't want peoples in here that own a Acura TL to think they can go out and race a S2000 into think they really have a chance. Don't get me wrong, the dude that post his kill in here...good kill goes out to him. But what it really boils down to is he beat the driver and not the car. Hope that wasn't to much for you to digest and hope you understand where I'm coming from.
#28
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listen man my boy has a 06 350z and the 06 has 306hp am i correct? well from a 20 roll im dead even with him all the way till i hit 4th gear. after that he blows by me, since u used to own a 350z u already know that those things have retarded top end. we have raced over and over and over again and its the same result. I have also raced the 05 altima SER 6MT(video is on the racing forum) and i was able to pull between a 3/4 to 1 car on him.
I'm not the only one on this forum who been able to hang with a S2K. I'm also not stock nor am i FI. off the line its a whole different story the TL is horrible off the line and the S2K would beat me by 3 cars minimum. on a roll its a whole different story. keep in mind that i only raced from 25-110. im sure we kept goin he would eventually pass me cause 4th gear in the 2nd gen sucks balls.
my buddy with the 350z also ran him after i did and it was the same result, they were even for a lil but then the Z started pulling.
I'm not the only one on this forum who been able to hang with a S2K. I'm also not stock nor am i FI. off the line its a whole different story the TL is horrible off the line and the S2K would beat me by 3 cars minimum. on a roll its a whole different story. keep in mind that i only raced from 25-110. im sure we kept goin he would eventually pass me cause 4th gear in the 2nd gen sucks balls.
my buddy with the 350z also ran him after i did and it was the same result, they were even for a lil but then the Z started pulling.
#29
I've read your mod list and if I remember correctly you have Intake, UR pulleys, headers and no exhaust. 06 Z has 300hp, the 07 has 306hp and that is all to the flywheel. To the wheels the 07 Z is putting down 260-265. I'm not to sure about 06 models but I think in the ball park of about 240-250 to the wheels. I've race Altima SE-R myself and destroyed them off the line and as soon as second gear hit I'm taking off. Even from a roll as soon as I hit 3rd gear and killing them. I'm not doubt your races man! All I'm just saying to you is you beat the driver and not the car. I've race Acura TL 04 and up in my Z, I'm talking about I've murder them. Here's a vid of a 03' Z vs S2k both with bolt-on's and they both share the camera man. Maybe your buddy is an average driver and not so good, but whatever the case or the circumstances might be. Z>S2K>TL period and all I'm saying.
VID~~>>http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...62905d7450.htm
Here's my vid's and pics of my car to show you that I know what I'm talking about!
Here's me in my old Z racing a pontiac formula, mod's in vid included.
Vid>http://videos.streetfire.net/video/d...df3773a3d7.htm
Here's vid's of me when I was basically stock at drag strip.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/1...1f0025204f.htm
Here's a couple of 0-120+ runs mod.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/9...1f0026d313.htm
Here's pics off my350z.com of my old car!
Link..http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthre...=126475&page=2
VID~~>>http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...62905d7450.htm
Here's my vid's and pics of my car to show you that I know what I'm talking about!
Here's me in my old Z racing a pontiac formula, mod's in vid included.
Vid>http://videos.streetfire.net/video/d...df3773a3d7.htm
Here's vid's of me when I was basically stock at drag strip.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/1...1f0025204f.htm
Here's a couple of 0-120+ runs mod.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/9...1f0026d313.htm
Here's pics off my350z.com of my old car!
Link..http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthre...=126475&page=2
#30
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driver blows...im drivin tht s2k and ill have my buddy with the 350z take my car and we'll see. and then have him take the s2k and ill get back in my car. you are right i beat the driver not the car cause that kid sucks at shifting into 3rd for some odd reason. i wanna take a shot at the car not the driver.
#31
Originally Posted by S1CK TypeS
driver blows...im drivin tht s2k and ill have my buddy with the 350z take my car and we'll see. and then have him take the s2k and ill get back in my car. you are right i beat the driver not the car cause that kid sucks at shifting into 3rd for some odd reason. i wanna take a shot at the car not the driver.
If you can get it on camera that would be awesome and I know the members on this forum would enjoy it. Good Luck!
#32
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i usually do but this time the kid tht video tape was drivin his own car (350z)
if u wanna see some of my videos (not good quality) just do a search for my name theres a bunch floatin around
if u wanna see some of my videos (not good quality) just do a search for my name theres a bunch floatin around
#33
For some reason I can't send you a PM. I see your a real racer in the Acura of yours...lol I didn't know your car was auto tell I read your post against an 04 TL. Your right about the vid quality and why does it suck so bad? What did you think about my vids in my old Z?
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