$4k Engine Repair Quoted By Dealer
11-02-2007, 06:19 PM
#41
Iro Ridg .308
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Kennedy
Ed...
Common sense applied here:
Lack of an oil change would not cause an 02 sensor to fail, and thus create a lean scenario to burn a hole in a piston.
What "maintenece" and requisite documentation is lacking that would have caused this failure? Nothing. Oil changes? Belts? "Inspection"? various Fluids? NOT doing any of those would NOT create this problem. This clearly a defect.
Lack of oil would cause a siezed engine... period. The failure you've expereinced is CLEARLY not due to lack of maintenence, so that shouldn't even be a consideration.
I am curious though, how a failed o2 sensor didn't signal a CEL. You haven't been driving around with a CEL have you?
Case closed. Pay up f$ckers.
Common sense applied here:
Lack of an oil change would not cause an 02 sensor to fail, and thus create a lean scenario to burn a hole in a piston.
What "maintenece" and requisite documentation is lacking that would have caused this failure? Nothing. Oil changes? Belts? "Inspection"? various Fluids? NOT doing any of those would NOT create this problem. This clearly a defect.
Lack of oil would cause a siezed engine... period. The failure you've expereinced is CLEARLY not due to lack of maintenence, so that shouldn't even be a consideration.
I am curious though, how a failed o2 sensor didn't signal a CEL. You haven't been driving around with a CEL have you?
Case closed. Pay up f$ckers.
However it did go full on and stayed on as I was heading to work then later started blinking at which time I immediately pulled over then checked both the oil and coolant levels which both were ok within their range. Not topped off, but not below the min lines either.
11-02-2007, 06:24 PM
#42
Iro Ridg .308
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by onsknth
Definitely a problem before and FWIW - I've never seen a hole in a piston due to being too rich, the extra fuel actually cools the piston.
So for general knowledge sake, what happens if the car runs too rich besides more gas going to waste?
11-02-2007, 06:27 PM
#44
Moderator
Few things:
1. This isn't an Acuracare extended warranty, but a 3rd party contract. Evidently, it is much more difficult to collect from such companies. Next time, go with a factory extended warranty agreement.
2. Extended warranties are not governed by the Magnuson-Moss Act. In other words, if they make you change your oil while wearing a pink dress under the moonlight, you better do it. Clearly the agreement requires you to provide proof of maintenance, regardless of whether or not it is applicable to the failure.
Anyway, I wish you the best of luck and hope that you are able to collect from them. In the event that this fails, contact Honda. With under 100k miles, there's a good chance that you'll be able to convince them to goodwill a portion of the repair.
1. This isn't an Acuracare extended warranty, but a 3rd party contract. Evidently, it is much more difficult to collect from such companies. Next time, go with a factory extended warranty agreement.
2. Extended warranties are not governed by the Magnuson-Moss Act. In other words, if they make you change your oil while wearing a pink dress under the moonlight, you better do it. Clearly the agreement requires you to provide proof of maintenance, regardless of whether or not it is applicable to the failure.
Anyway, I wish you the best of luck and hope that you are able to collect from them. In the event that this fails, contact Honda. With under 100k miles, there's a good chance that you'll be able to convince them to goodwill a portion of the repair.
11-03-2007, 03:24 AM
#45
wow. im sorry, first time im reading this. havent seen you around lately..
this is definitely one of the most f*ed up thing i've ever heard a dealership do. I've heard some wild stories on here, but this is just wrong. Because you cant pull up a receipt for some oil changes for a couple months ?? These honda engines will do fine even if you dont change your oil for 7,8k. especially synth. 10k.
honestly. i would fork up the $150 to have it towed somewhere else. Second opinion. If you get the same diagnostics, go back and fight the dealership. $4k is alot of money, might go higher then small claims ?? a litigation is the only answer if they dont work with you.
If you get somethign completely different from the other mechanic, now you've really got some ground on them. They dont fix your problem, demand back atleast the $2000 for the warranty, since the one time it breaks, they wont fix it.
Good luck with this man. i'll keep reading
this is definitely one of the most f*ed up thing i've ever heard a dealership do. I've heard some wild stories on here, but this is just wrong. Because you cant pull up a receipt for some oil changes for a couple months ?? These honda engines will do fine even if you dont change your oil for 7,8k. especially synth. 10k.
honestly. i would fork up the $150 to have it towed somewhere else. Second opinion. If you get the same diagnostics, go back and fight the dealership. $4k is alot of money, might go higher then small claims ?? a litigation is the only answer if they dont work with you.
If you get somethign completely different from the other mechanic, now you've really got some ground on them. They dont fix your problem, demand back atleast the $2000 for the warranty, since the one time it breaks, they wont fix it.
Good luck with this man. i'll keep reading
11-03-2007, 11:13 AM
#47
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Originally Posted by special-ed
But yeah, you guys that have extended warranties, make sure to keep all your damn receipts!
11-03-2007, 03:12 PM
#48
Iro Ridg .308
Thread Starter
Hey guys, quick update. Right now, no word yet. Also, since it's a 3rd party extended warranty, even though it was purchased from the dealership, still can't put all the blame on just the dealership since it's the x-tended warranty company that's giving the yes or no to the dealer's service department to open up the engine.
Yeah, these honda engine can definitely go longer between changes. Funny how I was looking through some of these mntc schedules and 1 dealer was recommending to have it changed every 3750 miles!! Geesh......it's obvious where these dealerships try and make residual income.
Regardless, NO MATTER HOW YOU DO IT, GET THOSE DAMN RECEIPTS IN ORDER!
Right now, luckily my friend's family is the one who owns the Acura dealership. He's the sales manager at one of their Honda dealerships and made a phone call to the Acura Service Manager where my car is at for me and is going to try and work something with that extended warranty company. He couldn't make any promises but he's definitely trying. With receipts in order and his backing, hopefully this gets done.
Yeah, these honda engine can definitely go longer between changes. Funny how I was looking through some of these mntc schedules and 1 dealer was recommending to have it changed every 3750 miles!! Geesh......it's obvious where these dealerships try and make residual income.
Regardless, NO MATTER HOW YOU DO IT, GET THOSE DAMN RECEIPTS IN ORDER!
Right now, luckily my friend's family is the one who owns the Acura dealership. He's the sales manager at one of their Honda dealerships and made a phone call to the Acura Service Manager where my car is at for me and is going to try and work something with that extended warranty company. He couldn't make any promises but he's definitely trying. With receipts in order and his backing, hopefully this gets done.
11-03-2007, 03:12 PM
#49
Iro Ridg .308
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by 06 Acura TL
i would have my local mechanic shop write reciept for the matenance, haha. they wana get wise, i can get wiser
11-03-2007, 03:19 PM
#50
hmm i think you should be alright as far as the warranty covering the repairs goes....but if you get stuck with having to pay for it, cant you just swap out the engine with another one for far less than the 4 G's its costing to repair the one you have now?? 
11-03-2007, 03:41 PM
#51
Iro Ridg .308
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by thevikas87
hmm i think you should be alright as far as the warranty covering the repairs goes....but if you get stuck with having to pay for it, cant you just swap out the engine with another one for far less than the 4 G's its costing to repair the one you have now??
1. Buy used engine hopefully for around 2g's.
2. Got quotes for about $600-$800 for engine swap
or
1. Get a new block like "lookinco" did
2. use 3.5 internals and just beef the engine up since after this whole fiasco, x-warranty company isn't going to cover anything anyway, plus car will only have like 10k left on the warranty.
11-03-2007, 04:22 PM
#52
WDP Director of R & D
I didn't see a post stating it but did they already determine whether it was actually a piston issue or the more likely bent/burnt valve??
If it's just a valve issue with no other short block problems, I wouldn't think they would go past a head swap - better yet it could only require valve / guide work etc...
Then again, if I were you, at your engines mileage, I would just want a completely new or rebuilt motor....
Like you said however, they won't know until they get into it... And if the warranty company is footing the bill, they will most likely only perform the "minimum but adequate..."
Best of luck!
If it's just a valve issue with no other short block problems, I wouldn't think they would go past a head swap - better yet it could only require valve / guide work etc...
Then again, if I were you, at your engines mileage, I would just want a completely new or rebuilt motor....
Like you said however, they won't know until they get into it... And if the warranty company is footing the bill, they will most likely only perform the "minimum but adequate..."
Best of luck!
11-05-2007, 12:04 AM
#53
tl newb
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Originally Posted by 06 Acura TL
over revving can also float the valves and bend them. my brother did that to his accord gong from 5th to 2nd by mistake on his v6 6mt
jsut happend to a buddys new rsx
not covered under warranty even though acura knows there is an issue with this
11-06-2007, 10:46 PM
#54
Iro Ridg .308
Thread Starter
Hey Smitty,
Thanks for chiming in.......I'll double check with the dealer. I'll be there tomorrow and will make sure to get their initial diagnosis. Yeah, I hear you on the rebuilt motor. Would love to upgrade to 3.5 internals.
Thanks for chiming in.......I'll double check with the dealer. I'll be there tomorrow and will make sure to get their initial diagnosis. Yeah, I hear you on the rebuilt motor. Would love to upgrade to 3.5 internals.
Originally Posted by KJSmitty
I didn't see a post stating it but did they already determine whether it was actually a piston issue or the more likely bent/burnt valve??
If it's just a valve issue with no other short block problems, I wouldn't think they would go past a head swap - better yet it could only require valve / guide work etc...
Then again, if I were you, at your engines mileage, I would just want a completely new or rebuilt motor....
Like you said however, they won't know until they get into it... And if the warranty company is footing the bill, they will most likely only perform the "minimum but adequate..."
Best of luck!
If it's just a valve issue with no other short block problems, I wouldn't think they would go past a head swap - better yet it could only require valve / guide work etc...
Then again, if I were you, at your engines mileage, I would just want a completely new or rebuilt motor....
Like you said however, they won't know until they get into it... And if the warranty company is footing the bill, they will most likely only perform the "minimum but adequate..."
Best of luck!
11-07-2007, 02:40 PM
#58
REDBULL///AMG
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Originally Posted by trueblue01gt
jsut happend to a buddys new rsx
not covered under warranty even though acura knows there is an issue with this
not covered under warranty even though acura knows there is an issue with this
11-07-2007, 04:56 PM
#59
WDP Director of R & D
I changed my oil last night...
Went ahead and did it while wearing a pink dress, under the moonlight no less... You know, just in case like Sodaluvr mentioned....
OK, I'm kidding. But I truly hope that a lack of receipts does not turn into the "sole reason" the warranty company references if not covering the repair.
Went ahead and did it while wearing a pink dress, under the moonlight no less... You know, just in case like Sodaluvr mentioned....
OK, I'm kidding. But I truly hope that a lack of receipts does not turn into the "sole reason" the warranty company references if not covering the repair.
11-07-2007, 05:59 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by special-ed
yeah, that's the consensus from everybody's input.
So for general knowledge sake, what happens if the car runs too rich besides more gas going to waste?
So for general knowledge sake, what happens if the car runs too rich besides more gas going to waste?
Something on that nature... Most engines I run rich or lean have no emission systems, per se... Things like airplanes and snowmobiles, I'm also into nitro radio control stuff a bit. I got a wicked running weed-whacker too.
Mostly unsued fuel is just lost... The car may however have systems that shut-off fuel upon sensing poor combustion/spark, I'm not up on all the inner workings of the CPU, yet.
11-15-2007, 12:33 AM
#65
04 TL 6MT NAVI ABP/Q
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Special-Ed - who did your latest Oil Change and how far before your engine crapped out was it done?
I had a Honda dealer do my oil change on an old Civic of mine and I am pretty sure they forgot to put Oil back in it. I didnt even think to check it after picking it up and 3 days later a piston seized and broke and I was in your exact same shoes.
So of course the first place I have it taken is the same Honda Dealer. Niot like they are going to admit to not filling it up and thus they tell me its not covered and its going to cost me $3400 to replace it.
I didnt know all this at the time, but I had my transmission rebuilt about a year later and the guy who did it ran his own performance shop. He told me he got fired from a dealership's service dept because his manager told him to cover up the exact same mistake on some poor lady's Accord. He couldnt bring himself to lie like that and went into the waiting room and told the lady what had really happened.
Bottom line, NEVER trust your dealer.
I had a Honda dealer do my oil change on an old Civic of mine and I am pretty sure they forgot to put Oil back in it. I didnt even think to check it after picking it up and 3 days later a piston seized and broke and I was in your exact same shoes.
So of course the first place I have it taken is the same Honda Dealer. Niot like they are going to admit to not filling it up and thus they tell me its not covered and its going to cost me $3400 to replace it.
I didnt know all this at the time, but I had my transmission rebuilt about a year later and the guy who did it ran his own performance shop. He told me he got fired from a dealership's service dept because his manager told him to cover up the exact same mistake on some poor lady's Accord. He couldnt bring himself to lie like that and went into the waiting room and told the lady what had really happened.
Bottom line, NEVER trust your dealer.
11-15-2007, 03:07 PM
#66
Iro Ridg .308
Thread Starter
UPDATE...well kinda
With regards to the last oil change, it was done outside of the dealership but car had oil. I always check.
Anyway, this is basically the scenario. 3rd party warranty company agreed to at least give the dealership the ok to open up the engine but only thing is I'm still at their mercy since I had an Injen Intake on there and according to their agreement, it's considered an engine modification. So after opening up the engine, they can either say no we won't cover anything or they said they would cover up to half of the damages.
Worst case, they open up engine and they don't cover squat. I'm out about $1400 for the dealer just to open up the rear and front heads to inspect the valves, pistons, and piston rings. On top of that, my engine is in shambles and have to either get a tow truck to tow it or pay the dealer labor time to put it pack together. So I'm like screw it, I'm taking it to a performance shop in the area who did work to a few of my buddy's M3, S2000, and S4.
It sucks that my dealer, who is actually a pretty good dealer to work with, can only go with stock parts since I had entertained to them the idea of going 3.5 internals.
So car is at the performance shop. Heads will be looked at on Monday. From there we'll see what's next......stay tuned!
Either way, glad that this is happening towards the end of the year. Car is used for business and I'll be able to claim an additional loss and write off 100% on my taxes for the engine rebuild except for the supercharger.
Anyway, this is basically the scenario. 3rd party warranty company agreed to at least give the dealership the ok to open up the engine but only thing is I'm still at their mercy since I had an Injen Intake on there and according to their agreement, it's considered an engine modification. So after opening up the engine, they can either say no we won't cover anything or they said they would cover up to half of the damages.
Worst case, they open up engine and they don't cover squat. I'm out about $1400 for the dealer just to open up the rear and front heads to inspect the valves, pistons, and piston rings. On top of that, my engine is in shambles and have to either get a tow truck to tow it or pay the dealer labor time to put it pack together. So I'm like screw it, I'm taking it to a performance shop in the area who did work to a few of my buddy's M3, S2000, and S4.
It sucks that my dealer, who is actually a pretty good dealer to work with, can only go with stock parts since I had entertained to them the idea of going 3.5 internals.
So car is at the performance shop. Heads will be looked at on Monday. From there we'll see what's next......stay tuned!
Either way, glad that this is happening towards the end of the year. Car is used for business and I'll be able to claim an additional loss and write off 100% on my taxes for the engine rebuild except for the supercharger.
11-16-2007, 08:42 AM
#68
WDP Director of R & D
Originally Posted by special-ed
broken rocker arm!!!!!!!
Next question: did all the "broken" pieces stay in the head etc.?
If all is well it could be a cheap fix...
11-16-2007, 05:37 PM
#69
The Darker the berry....
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I was just discussing this with a friend of mine who is in the legal field - according to him, a law was passed recently that says that a warranty company canNOT deny coverage on a repair just because a vehicle has been modded - they must PROVE that the mod caused the damage. I'm not sure if the law differs from state to state, but it's worth checking it out. I'm not auto-tech, but can an intake cause a broken rocker arm?
Also - word to the wise - ALWAYS remove removeable mods (intakes, rims, etc.) before you take your car to a dealership - don't give them an excuse to mess with you.
Also - word to the wise - ALWAYS remove removeable mods (intakes, rims, etc.) before you take your car to a dealership - don't give them an excuse to mess with you.
11-16-2007, 05:45 PM
#70
Iro Ridg .308
Thread Starter
Just got back from the shop.....
Smitty, it wasn't the rocker arm but actually the friggin' intake rocker arm ROD that snapped in 2!!
One of the heads on the bolts that help to hold the arm rod in place snapped off. BS defect man.
As a result, there was too much flex especially under acceleration so the rocker arm rod snapped. Everything else is fine but since the engine's open, I'm just gonna go ahead and get the tensioner, adjuster, and water pump replaced. Throw in some new spark plugs and timing belt also.
So yeah, it's gonna be a cheaper fix. I guess the 3.5 internals sadly are gonna have to wait for another day. Plus, I was just talking to my friend who owns the dealership. New TL will definitely have SH-AWD. There's also rumor of a V8 but he's not sure for which car - probably the new NSX....
One of the heads on the bolts that help to hold the arm rod in place snapped off. BS defect man.
As a result, there was too much flex especially under acceleration so the rocker arm rod snapped. Everything else is fine but since the engine's open, I'm just gonna go ahead and get the tensioner, adjuster, and water pump replaced. Throw in some new spark plugs and timing belt also.
So yeah, it's gonna be a cheaper fix. I guess the 3.5 internals sadly are gonna have to wait for another day. Plus, I was just talking to my friend who owns the dealership. New TL will definitely have SH-AWD. There's also rumor of a V8 but he's not sure for which car - probably the new NSX....
11-16-2007, 05:50 PM
#71
Iro Ridg .308
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by jetblakTL
I was just discussing this with a friend of mine who is in the legal field - according to him, a law was passed recently that says that a warranty company canNOT deny coverage on a repair just because a vehicle has been modded - they must PROVE that the mod caused the damage. I'm not sure if the law differs from state to state, but it's worth checking it out. I'm not auto-tech, but can an intake cause a broken rocker arm?
Also - word to the wise - ALWAYS remove removeable mods (intakes, rims, etc.) before you take your car to a dealership - don't give them an excuse to mess with you.
Also - word to the wise - ALWAYS remove removeable mods (intakes, rims, etc.) before you take your car to a dealership - don't give them an excuse to mess with you.
Yeah, I know better but unfortunately I threw the original in the can. I'm getting pictures taken of the broken bold and arm rod. I definitely don't think I should be frontin' all the costs.....
12-08-2007, 03:49 AM
#73
Team Owner
With the exhaust valve and injector still functioning you were sending unburned fuel into the exhaust tricking the O2 sensor into thinking it was running pig rich and causing the other 2 or 5 cylinders to run lean and throwing a rich code. Definately change your oil since you probably dumped a lot of fuel into the oil running it with a dead cylinder.
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