pickler

i'm pretty impressed for a torquey engine. Just wondering why it doesn't feel all that powerful when mated to the RLX? maybe the car is way too heavy.

05TLdcc

The new RLX only has 260hp?


Is Acura on crack? That's what you think of your "flagship"?

KieranM37

To answer your question in a picture:



(Yes, they are on crack. They have been for some time now.)

Costco

That's 260 wheel horsepower.

:derp:

Still not awfully impressive, but not quite laughable.

HBaJ

Don't see the issue. Spot on for the 310 claimed at the crank.

hadokenuh

Try sport mode! I did that during my test drive and found the engine very responsive.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Hmm, the performance numbers are about right for a FWD car with 310hp at 3933lb. 0-60mph in the mid to high 5's and 1/4 mile in the low to mid 14's trapping close to 100mph. These are comparable to the likes of 535i, GS350, M37, E350, etc.

miner

I'm not disappointed. I knew what to expect prior to the purchase. My '14 PAWS seems/feels more responsive than my '10 SHAWD; and that is not even in Sport Mode.

pickler

I think I was misunderstood? 258whp at 6000rpm is great for an auto v6 car. I have seen v8 manual cars put down less. still the tsx v6 put down 232whp at 6200rpm on same dyno. so about 20whp difference between the direct injected and MPFI engines. the question was why doesnt the car 'feel' strong.

according to edmunds:

acura rlx
0-60: 6.5s
1/4 mi: 14.6s

acura tsx v6:
0-60: 6.4s
1/4mi: 14.6s

for comparison acura rdx weighs more and has 70 less horses yet it achieves same 0-60 times as above cars and nearly same 1/4 mile.

wstr75

Try this wheel to crank horsepower converter:
http://www.mk5cortinaestate.co.uk/calculator4.php

homer626

Still preforms pretty well against others cars like people have said the E350, or m37

AZuser

It is laughable when a 2013 V6 Accord produces 258.06 hp to the wheels. RLX a flagship?


http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...&page_number=2

Costco

We're Acura. We don't need no stinkin' V8s. Power is so passe.

seanlin

+1

I drove BMW 545i before RLX. I don't need 0-60 in 5 seconds everyday. RLX has just good enough power and with many nice high tech stuffs.
I am very happy with RLX so far.

Edward'TLS

Having no V8, Acura has no other choice but to resort to use hybrid technology in order to generate V8-like output horsepower, so as to try to play catchup to other V8 competitors from Audi, BMW, Lexus, and MB.

HBaJ

Seems like they're ahead of the curve with everybody else dropping their V8 options and opting for boosted V6's, no? Although this did happen by virtue of them being so behind that they're back in the game, 370 hp in upcoming SH-AWD will be more then "adequate".

db22

I think that you are correct but that is not what you said: it is more now than the completion but then it may soon become adequate?

Yumcha

Hoo boy.

Edward'TLS

I guess Honda loves challenges, going the "Advance" or complicated way of using batteries/multiple-motors/AWD in order to obtain 370hp for an AWD-only sedan; when other luxury auto makers can readily achieve it with blown-V6's and also SIMPLE high-power V8's on their RWD (optional AWD) sedans.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

6MT vs 6AT............

hondamore

How many of those blown V6's can get 30mpg in the city?? The fact is that new government regulations are changing all manufacturers approaches to design and engine options.

I lived through this type of change in the 70's and fortunately technology is making this time around less painful. In the 70's we went from 300 hp muscle cars to 4 cylinder 80 hp econoboxes in a matter of a few years in order to meet government requirements on fuel economy. I believe Honda/Acura are on the right track with this "performance hybrid" plan and if it SH-SHAWD shows up in the MDX someday, they'll sell them by the boatload.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

The government CAFE regulation is not a valid excuse in this case.

A "performance hybrid" is called a performance hybrid simply because the electric motor assist is NOT used to extend fuel economy, but used only to add fuel-economy-robbing horsepower to the low-output gasoline engine.

If Acura is really into lowering the fleet CAFE number, it would have used the hybrid-I4 setup (Honda Accord Hybrid with not just 30mpg, but 50mpg in the city) for the entire Acura product lineup.

Given that the RLX is only selling in a couple hundreds of units a month, just a handful of Hybrid RLX's are not gonna put even a tiny dent in the overall fleet CAFE number for Acura.

Even worse if Acura decides to put this Performance-Hybrid powertrain setup in the upcoming TLX, which will then "fucked up" even more the already slow sales of the RLX sedan; just as the same way the 4G AWD TL put the final nails in the 2G RL's coffin, with both sedans sharing the same 3.7L-V6 SH-AWD hardware.

Who is gonna buy the Hybrid RLX (2G RL) when the Hybrid TLX (4G AWD TL) has the same hybrid propulsion hardware (but less gadgets that most buyers don't even need) for thousands and thousands $ less ?

hondamore

As I mentioned in my earlier post, if the Hybrid system from the RLX "testbed" later filters down to the MDX then later to the TLX and RDX, all of enhanced fuel economy numbers of all those sales will definitely help out the Acura CAFE number in the future. Then, many years in the future, when the hybrid SHAWD has filtered down to "lesser" models in the Acura lineup, Acura will be busy working on the next "big thing" technology to feature in the RLX first.

Ken1997TL

The reason it doesn't "feel" fast is because it is a smooth engine with a broad torque curve.

Whereas a Honda S2000 will feel fast because the torque increases suddenly with a 'strong' VTEC changeover.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea.....the whole idea behind eSH-AWD is to have V8 level performance with I4 fuel efficiency. 370+hp along with instant torque should guarantee the former claim while the EPA combined rating of 30mpg is as good as a Accord I4 CVT.

The other benefits would be enhanced handling, stability, and traction.

The RLX continues to be a technology "test bed" for Acura. It would be foolish for Honda to develop all these technologies (jewel eye LED, P-AWS, eSH-AWD, etc) and only put them in the low volume RLX. Most of these technologies would eventually trickle down to the other Acura vehicles.

The 2G RL failed because of several reasons. It was not the design that American Honda wanted. Honda Japan forced American Honda to use it. As such, its size is too small and is on par with the TL. The RLX should not have this problem since its size, at least interior wise, is significantly bigger than the TL. Its interior materials and quality are also miles above the 4G TL.

The upcoming TLX is supposed to be smaller than the current 4G TL. With the RLX being bigger than the 2G RL, and the TLX being smaller than the 4G TL, there should not be any more overlap. The TLX will be positioned to compete with the 3 series. That means there should be more emphasize on sportiness and agility. Its interior quality and feature content will be not be on par with the RLX in order to reduce cost.

Being the bread and butter Acura sedan, the TLX should offer several powertrain choices. Its price range should be from low $30k to low $50k.

Edward'TLS

Thanks for all the sweet talk on the RLX, with it being this much and that much better than the failed 2G RL.

Let's get back to reality and look at some real hard numbers for both the 2G RL and the RLX in terms of the 1st year monthly sales.

Being successful or not, the sales numbers reveal all.

2G RL
------
Ranging from 1,300 to 1,941 units per month during the 1st production year.

RLX
----
Feb '13 = 60
Mar = 336
Apr = 400
May = 273
Jun = 499
Jul = 617
Aug = 459
Sept = 311

Note that even with the RLX's peak sales of 617 units, the 2G RL still outsold the RLX by at least 2x as much during each month of the 1st year in production.

So you said the 2G RL had failed. Is the RLX any successful, when it can only achieve 1/2 the monthly sales of the failed 2G RL, especially that it is a so much better sedan than the failed 2G RL ?

The AWD RLX may add more sales to the overall RLX figure. But it is highly unlikely that the even higher-priced AWD RLX can help doubling the sales figure for the overall RLX.

At this moment, the 4G TL is not much of a threat to the RLX, with it being one model generation behind. But remember that the TL/TLX is the bread-&-butter Acura sedan, so Acura will outfit the TLX using the RLX as the reference model, and thus the TLX will rapidly close up the current technology gap that exists between the 4G TL and the RLX.

With some (obviously not all) design features and gadgets from the RLX being trickled down to the TLX, the much cheaper TLX will definitely threaten the RLX sales (especially FWD version of the RLX) even more.

Don't get me wrong. The 2G RL was a very nicely designed sedan during that era, except that it was tagged with too expensive a price.

The RLX is an even better designed sedan than the 2G RL. However, competition in that vehicle segment is fierce. The RLX has improved, but even more so with it's competitors. Also, the too-expensive price tags are once again hampering the success for the RLX.

There is one simple solution. Drop $10-15K across the entire line for the RLX, and, without a doubt, the RLX sales will then take off like a rocket.

jshaw

I'd rather Acura make the TLX well, even if it 86s the RLX/Legend family permanently.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Huh? What sweet talk?

If you have noticed my posts when the RLX first came out, you'd notice that I predicted the RLX will fail as well in terms of sales? I predicted that the base price of $50k will scare people away from even LOOKING at the RLX at all. I also thought the styling was too bland to generate interest. I said that there's room to slot in a true base RLX at the $40k mark that does not have LED lights ($2k), moonroof ($1k), forward collision warning ($500), lane departure warning ($500), P-AWS ($2k), rear cameras ($1k), heated seats ($500), ELS system ($1.5k), auto-dimming mirror, heated mirrors, etc. As shown, above, you have $9k of features that can be easily deleted from the existing base RLX, and the car is still fairly well equipped.

I, too, think the 2G RL when it first came out was a decent car. That's why it won the Japanese Car of the Year in 2005, and was consistently ranked very high in comparison tests.

If you read my previous post, I'm assuming that the TLX will be downsized significantly compared to the 4G TL. The difference is like a Civic vs Accord. Will the TLX steal sales from the RLX? Perhaps. But how much more sales can the RLX lose really? At the rate its selling right now, at most you will lose 300-400 cars a month. If they make the a good TLX, then Acura can easily sell way more TLX's.

Edward'TLS

Let me try to understand your logic.

In your 1st paragraph. You said that the 2G RL failed because of "this and that", and that the RLX should NOT have these problems due to the RLX's bigger size and better interior.

In here, you seemed to be saying that the RLX should not have those problems that caused the 2G RL to fail, due to Acura's remedy fixes of giving the RLX a bigger vehicle size, a better interior, and a sedan that North Americans really wanted.

But in your 2nd paragraph, you said you had predicted that the RLX would also failed as well.

In here, you seemed to be saying that even with all the shortcomings fixed (such as vehicle size, better interior, and NA taste), you predicted that the RLX would still fail.

Do you mean that even after Acura had addressed all the 2G RL's shortcomings, the the RLX is still destined to be doomed, with or without doing the size, interior, and taste upgrade ?

George Knighton

From past experience with dyno testing everything from an ITR to my TL 6-6, I'd say that based on their rated HP I'd have expected four more HP on the dyno.

:-)

If they'd rated that 3.5 motor as low as 300 HP, or 305 HP, I would not have been surprised. 310 HP rating seems ambitious considering that my J37 dyno is at 295.

George Knighton

Personally, I think the RLX SH-AWD will be a car designed for people who already "get it" when it comes to Acura designs. I think that *we* will love it, just like we love the 4G TL SH-AWD despite its unpopularity.

The 4G 2009 TL was ahead of the styling curve and people didn't like it.

But now they have done the same thing with the 3G 2014 RLX.

In other words in 2009 they went bold before people were ready for it.

And in 2014 they've gone conservative at a time that the general public, the average middle class worker, is still feeling the pinch and would tend to buy a bolder design to lighten the mood.

That's just the way people buy things. When they're not doing as well they tend to buy brighter colors and bolder designs.

So.... Unless the motoring press gives Acura its due kudos for designing such an excellent technologically advanced vehicle, the RLX might be doomed for low sales. Again.

But what the hell do we care, eh?

Those of us who enjoy the hell out of the 4G TL very clearly do not care what the car looks like on the outside while we're sitting on the inside.

:-)

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Hmm...more or less yes.

Acura fixed some of the issues with the new RLX (i.e. size, interior, efficiency mainly), didn't fix something else (i.e. brand prestige), and created some other issues (i.e. pricing structure). They just can't seem to get EVERYTHING right at the SAME time....lol.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

Brand prestige is one big obstacle that is hard to overcome.

If Acura can't attract premium sedan buyers to purchase it's flagship sedan, it has no means to build up the brand prestige.

But the pricing fix can be easily done. Just drop $10-15K for all trim levels from the RLX's price tags.

Likewise, even with the 2G RL's uncompetitiveness, if Acura were willing to drop $10K from the 2G RL's price tags back then, it would have no problem selling the 2G RL in satisfactory volume.

037

dropping $10k is like gifting all the R&D away...they paid for the technology, they need to make some money back. I'm sure they did the math and decided selling couple hundred every month would cover the bills.

They aren't stupid, and this is business. It's all part of the master plan.

Plus, if they drop too much in price they'd be competing against Hyundai directly and we can't have that now can we.

I'm sure e-sh-awd will debut, hopefully with summer tires on it, and beat the crap out of the Germans.

I mean, 0.85G for the MDX on all season tires is nothing to sneeze at using the old SH-AWD!!!

Edward'TLS

Man, you must be out of this world.

Would you quote the source where you read that selling a few hundred units of RLX a month was sufficient to cover the bills ?

We are trying to see how Acura can rescue the poor sales of the RLX.

With the projected price tag of $60K for the Hybrid AWD RLX, even when equipped OEM with Formula 1 race tires and beat the Germans by a mile, the AWD RLX is still highly unlikely to add significant numbers to the total monthly sales tally.

You know what the major problem Acura is facing right now, which makes it unable to move $50+K premium sedans. Acura is seriously lacking the brand image as a luxury auto brand.

The Lexus brand is a good example to follow.

24 years ago, the brand new Lexus auto brand started off by selling the V8 RWD flagship sedan LS400 at a bargain price of $40K, which heavily undercut the well-established offerings from BMW and MB.

The bargain price tag was the only way to attract lots of buyers to buy and get familiar with this excellently-built sedan. The LS400 was then well received, highly praised, and slowly gained fame. Over the years, the Lexus brand and the LS400 slowly built up it's premium brand and vehicle images, and also slowly raised up the sedan's price tag.

Now 24 years later, the Lexus brand has developed into a recognized luxury auto brand with a well-established premium brand image, and the LS sedan is now priced from $72K all the way to $120K.

So, even if it means losing some R&D investment, cutting the price tag is the only sure way to boost sales of the Acura flagship RLX sedan. First make the RLX popular in order to build up the premium brand image. Once the RLX is well received, then slowly raise the price tag.

Giving a flagship sedan a premium price tag doesn't automatically transform an auto brand to become a luxury brand. All it will do is only to discourage potential buyers from buying the "overpriced" flagship sedan, and only results in hurting overall sales.

cyph

In comparing 0-60 you have to check if it's at sea level or 1 mile above. I've seen 0-60 of the RLX at 5.8 sec.
http://www.zeroto60times.com/Acura-0-60-mph-Times.html

I tested the highway MPG from NAPA to San Jose recently and I achieved 33.1 MPG! Yes, that's correct. Although I was talking and driving at the same time so I wasn't zooming in and out of lanes. The beauty of front wheel versus rear or AWD is the better gas mileage. The gas savings from front wheel is active 100% of the time. The "better" turning for RWD is maybe what 5% of the time and the lower MPG for RWD is 100% of the time. Plus, the PAWS mitigates most of the benefits of RWD steering.

For those who thirst for speed and the zoom that German cars offer, then that's the one to go for. However, the base 5 series won't be any faster. They'd have to pay for the more expensive high end models as well as the "base" 528i four cylinder won't do it for them. Furthermore, the flagships BMW, Lexus, etc. are powerful, but they're not meant to be faster than the smaller 3, and 5, GS and IS. I'm not sure why some are expecting a super fast RLX. It will move a family of four up a hill effortlessly.

Maybe I'm dense and unsophisticated but I love the Acura "shield." BMW has not changed its styling for ten years; they modify a curve here and there, but compare their 2001 models with the 2013 models, it's almost the same!

I think the people who dismiss Acura styling already has the notion that German styling is the best. Additionally, they believe that luxury sedans need to go 0-60 at 5.5 with RWD which is useful all of 5%. The first month, they will drive around like maniacs then gradually settle down just so they can save gas.

Obviously, Acuras are not going for the German audience. The RLX is meant to be a smooth, powerful, fast, spacious car that can carry a family of four with plenty of leg room and cargo. It also boast over 300HP and can do 30+ MPG on the freeway. That's an impressive combo. It also has a naturally aspirated engine which will be trouble free unlike the issues that most turbo engines will exhibit after five years or so.

I'm pretty happy with the car. It's the anti-German car and that's what I like about it.

cyph

The NSX will be the flagship with the flagship price. North of 100k. The RLX is not going to be the flagship. Hopefully, the NSX "halo" car will help the Acura luxury brand.

hondamore

I agree with cyph.

In my opinion, the RLX is exactly what it is supposed to be - the low-volume, top of the line Acura sedan that is used to test the newest and latest technology. While Acura is working through the nuances and possible glitches of the new eSHAWD system, isn't it perfect to do so in a low-volume car sold primarily to loyal Honda/Acura buyers?? Then when perfected, they engineer the technology into the massively popular MDX and they have 50000 or 60000 per year happy customers of their top selling vehicle. Sounds logical to me and it worked beautifully with the original SHAWD technology.

At the same time, you have the hard core Acura lovers who "get" the RLX and you give them, their PERFECT driving experience. Those people shy away from the "snob appeal" brands and don't want their vehicle to scream, "look at me" but instead want a well-built, reliable car to get them and their friends and family where they are going in luxury and comfort and safety.

Dollars and cents wise, if the RLX sells a mere 25000 units in its 7 year cycle, it will still generate $1.25 billion in sales and the new technology will filter down to other Acura models that will help in many, many billions of dollars in sales. Acura knows what they are doing (for the most part), let's give them the benefit of the doubt. You can't please everyone, but they've carved out a nice, profitable niche for themselves without taking undue financial risks.

As George Knighton would say...I "get it".

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I'm not sure if Acura intended to have the RLX as merely a technology test bed. I'd imagine Acura has higher ambitions than that! But then again, Honda, unlike European brands, are not 100% focused on making luxury cars. Also compared to Toyota and Nissan, Honda is a much smaller company and does not have the resources to match those Japanese giants. While Toyota and Nissan were able to pull a LS and Q respectively, Honda simply didn't have the power to do something like that. Remember, they spent a lot on the NSX already.

If we want to see the best from Acura, the brand must go global. Selling 150,000 vehicles in North America plus some more in China is simply not enough. For comparison, Mercedes Benz's FWD platform is being used for several models: CLA, A, B, and GLA. Mercedes is building about 500,000 of these vehicles worldwide. This is the kind of volume Acura has to achieve if they want to get the brand power that they want. When the volume is large enough, then the development budget and R&D budget can increase significantly. With a larger budget, the company can spend more on technologies that can elevate the brand.

Until then, then yes, the RLX will most likely remain a test bed for future Acura products. I'm sure Honda is aware of this.

Edward'TLS

Then let's keep our fingers crossed, and hope that the new NSX CAN really make it to production this time, sans any global meltdown, natural weather disaster, and president/CEO change.

Till then, the RLX is still the flagship sedan, and the MDX the flagship SUV.


If the $$$$$ flagship RLX is used to try out and debug the glitches and imperfections residing in the newest and latest technology which will later be used in all future Acura vehicles, then the RLX is "fucked" from day one.

Who is stupid enough to spend $50+K on a beta-test premium flagship sedan from Acura, and has to help troubleshooting it's new technology on a daily basis ?

Will you ? I definitely won't.

Buyers can tolerate issues on $50+K German sedans because they all know about and get used to the sub-par German reliability.

But Acura is well known for top notch reliability, and a huge percentage of buyers choose Acura over BMW/MB just because of this reliability advantage.

For those who has spent $50+K on a flagship Acura sedan, they expect that this sedan has to be perfect with minimal glitches and minimal reliability issues with the car, the new gadgets and the new technology.

It is plain WRONG for Acura to penalize the RLX buyers, who has spent $$$$$ and has trusted Acura's top notch reliability, to be Acura's beta-testers for new technology. If this is truly Acura's ill intention, then the RLX sedan deserves nothing but to fail.