krava

NOw you lost me George. Don't tell me the RLX has the same problem as the lexus and there will be carbon buildup? I am trying to get a car to get 300K miles before I retire it.

pgeorg

Actually i believe George is saying exactly the opposite. Honda waited so long to bring the Direct Injection engine into production (RLX,MDX TLX), so they can solve the problem with carbon buildup.

holografique

We are talking about Acura - historically know for nothing BUT top notch quality. This isn't the 90's American based car manf. we are talking about. And I was comparing against the same model, over 3 years. I think it's safe to assume the 2015/2016 models have gotten BETTER.


Don't worry R. White, apparently it's just all in our heads. Put your sunglasses back on. Everything is just fine. Nothing to report here.

fsmith

Fair point; I would agree.

MNH

I, for one, can certainly confirm that Acura has a leg up with me as a prospective RLX SH customer in large because of its history for quality (and responsibility). I'd just as soon go back to a Lexus, too, but they don't offer a sedan that fits the bill.

If I had as much faith in Audi's ability to design, manufacture, and stand behind the A6 then I would likely be driving a 2016 Prestige at this moment. Instead, I am waiting to at least drive the RLX SH before taking the plunge either way.

krava

Why doesn't lexus have a sedan that fits the bill? They have the GS and the LS class. One of those has to work. If you lived here they wouldn't let you test drive the Hybrid. A lot of places I don't see how they let people test drive a car where there is only 1 of but I guess they do. I am so used to being told No. Like with the Corvette back in 2000. They said NO one test drives them. That was from the dealership in Marshall Texas. It was Nehls or whatever Chevrolet. They had 2 cars. Both the same color. One was Automatic the other was stick shift. This is when I got my first taste of adding money for a color. The color on it was a $500 option upgrade. It was a burgundy color metallic. I really like the audi, especially the a7 but I don't trust the reliability of it at all.

George Knighton

Right.

Honda bought into the theoretical advantages of direct injection at an early stage; however, they did not see how it would provide any but a particular marketing advantage adding direct injection to the J Motor heads.

They kept developing their direct injection fuel system, and when it was logical to roll out the slightly redesigned J Motors, they did it.

J Motor Direct Injection, 3.5 = 310 HP
J Motor MPF, 3.7 = 305 HP

If you cruise around various media venue, you will find anecdotal evidence from owners of J Motors with direct injection that they are getting fuel mileage well above what they'd have expected.

As far as putting money to the bottom line quickly, I think that Honda are missing out a little bit.

They continue to build cars for the long haul, and I am not convinced that those customers are out there.

More and more people seem to lease cars instead of buying them, and that includes cars down around the 30-35 K$ range, which wouldn't have been considered a logical thing just a couple of years ago.

I drive about 25,000/year so leasing is not logical.

They continue to have me as a customer, but I am not sure there are enough of me out there to keep the company comp'ing sales and com'ing #'s of units.

George Knighton

Honda attracts people at the low end who are interested in fuel economy.

At the high end, they've broken into the market with a weird car that gets 30 mpg, is big and heavy, and with definite sporting pretensions. This car also appears to be a startlingly good buy when compared to Mercedes, Cadillac, BMW and Audi of similar specifications.

There isn't a Lexus hybrid that does the same thing.

In their line of sedans, Lexus don't torque vector even with the conventional gasoline powered cars.

sooththetruth

I am surprised that a BASELINE Subaru now has torque vectoring and, for $800, adaptive cruise control that I now consider an indispensable option (with apologies to RLX-Hybrid). I just think that most people will not pay attention every moment they drive, and it be just those milliseconds that would save you from an accident.

The Subaru Legacy is now larger, and the value immense. They cannot keep them in stock. They have a CVT and have NO PANACHE whatsoever except to the crowd that values all-wheel drive in winter, and the value aspect. The trunk is large, it's quiet now, and the interior is COMPLETELY PEDESTRIAN TO THE POINT OF ANNOYANCE. (I am more of a snob than I had thought). Oh, it has fake wood panels, by the way. The 576 Watt Harmon Kardon stereo is powerful, but lacks the sophistication of the ELS or Krell that give a joyous clarity that rules out the Subaru for me, despite my pretentions of being unpretentious. Sigh.

Forgive this little tangent, but the torque vectoring when I test drove the Subaru with the 2.5L engine worked so well, it blew my mind. The ride is not sporty, rather as comfortable as in any car I have ever ridden, while the RLX's ride is intentionally sporty (read "firm"). The TLX has a more comfortable every day ride, in my opinion.

As for a car that will last, there are many people still buying Accords and Camry's, but there has been a shift; there used to be a Panache element to owning an old Mercedes for 20 years, even amongst the wealthy. It conveyed a bit of "smart" wealth image. But anymore it seems the wealthy are back into conspicuous consumption. And the new tech really outdates a car rather quickly, by the way. So the RLX target is sort of the Mercedes/BMW owner that has enough Subaru owner in them that they will buy the smart luxury, and we have always been a minority.

Most people don't think for themselves, they buy what their "crowd" approves. This RLX Hybrid is eclectic, and that draws me to it. Still working on getting one because, in the end, it just fit ME better than the very excellent Audi A6 I drove. But it's my nature to wait for a certified used one that fits my needs. Found a couple, and not one in the color I want, and I am patient to wait for exactly what I want.

JM2010 SH-AWD

^^ Good observations. I also think higher end Acura (and Lexus and Infiniti) models are logical buys for people who have made the mistake of trying to own a German car for any period of time - especially out of warrant - and can no longer justify that financial onslaught.

MNH

The GS is underpowered IMO, the AWD system is inferior to the RLX SH AWD, and fuel economy is weak. If the mileage was better or the power to weight ratio improved then I might feel differently. The LS is a marvelous vehicle, but it ends up being too expensive in AWD trim and still suffers from lousy fuel economy.

For me, I suspect I will be in either an RLX SH Advance or A6 Prestige by the fall at the latest.

krava

not sure how gs is underpowered? GS has 306 HP? and lighter then the RLX it should be faster too. Now the RLX SH is in a different league. Really can't compare anything but maybe a BMW 550 or E550 or S550 against it.

R. White

Regarding the DI engine, I have read that on average they suffer serious carbon buildup on the intake valves at about 100,000 miles which may require a tear down to clean.

This raises the question in my mind of the value of branded detergent fuel in these DI engines since the fuel is not passing the intake valves. Any engine experts out there who can clarify this point ?

George Knighton

I'm pretty sure a friend told me that the cheap Nissan Juke also vectors its torque when the pedal's down.

Seems to me it's an idea whose time came a couple of years ago, and I'm surprised more cars don't do it.

George Knighton

You mean the Toyota motors, or others?

MNH

Everything I write about the RLX SH relates to that vehicle and not the FWD RLX. As I've mentioned before, I have no interest in a FWD (or RWD) car. If the power can't be put to the ground at both axles then its not on my shopping list.

R. White

There are a number of articles about the DI problems. Here is one on Consumer Reports Pros and Cons of Direct Injection Engines - Consumer Reports

This article seems to imply that detergent gasoline does have benefits so this answers my question about that. Finding ethanol free fuel is impossible here.

Maybe Honda has found a fix for this carbon build up problem.

krava

I didn't pay too much attention, but I heard someone say something about carbon build up problem and Honda??? These things have it also? I bought 10 bottles of this STP gas treatment for ethonal gas things. I need to use one soon. I hope I didn't buy another car I can only drive 140K miles before the engine starts going nuts like on my GS. Is the 2013 lexus gS350 Direct injection also??

krava

The price for the carbon buildup in the GS is $6000 to fix on average. Look on clublexus.com and go to the 3gs portion you will see tons of pissed people. This was the #1 reason I shopped for a car when I did, didn't see too much life left in the GS because of the carbon build up thing. It was going to happen but no idea when for the 2nd time.

jpadilla

dont bother ... there are already too many RLX's out there ... I hear the TLX's are really nice ... check them out .

krava

TLX will give you a ride like the GS. A lot and I mean A LOT more sportier then the RLX. The pissed off acura salesguy drove the hell out of the TLX. He drifted the thing skidded the wheels everything. (he was mad because he knew I wasn't going to buy a car from him and I wanted to test drive that TLX even though I was looking for the RLX).

RLX-Sport Hybrid

That is odd behavior for an Acura sales rep to treat a new car on a test drive with a customer like that. I hope that does not happen very often.