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Are you in a cold climate ?
Did the engine run poorly ?
Did this oil level rise suddenly ?
At the very height of the 1.5T oil dilution problem the vast majority:
were in cold weather only (21 states)
owners saw no obvious problem other than the oil level rise and fuel smell on the dip stick, a few noticed a smell.
the level rise took months to rise. 1/4-1/2 qt rise was very common.
In extreme cases a few owners experienced codes and Check engine light.......most never saw a MIL
Yes, it's in the Northeast. I didn't have an issue last winter after checking multiple times at random intervals to see if I was getting oil dilution. Since the last change @ 10k miles, I never checked the oil because I figured "hey, it seems like it doesn't have the issue." The burning oil smell is what prompted me to check.
And no other problems other than raised oil level and fuel smell? That is the problem. Gasoline, or anything in the oil, is going to break down lubricity properties of the oil. The issues may not arise immediately, but long term is what I would be concerned with, especially if you're doing extended drain intervals.
I'll be checking the oil every 1k miles from now on to see if I continue getting noticeably dilution and modify my OCIs accordingly.
Originally Posted by russianDude
0w-30 might be more appropriate for this engine.
It's possible. I'm not sure it would do anything to help with oil dilution, outside of keeping the oil from becoming too thin upon dilution. Careful though, suggesting viscosity outside of manufacturer recommendation will have people coming out of the woodworks shouting that you'll automatically ruin your engine.
Agree, 0w-30 wont help with dilution but if it does happen will help a bit with viscosity not becoming 0w-10 or something.
yeah, people think owner manual is a bible. U might need it for warranty reasons, but after warranty no issues with 0w-30.
And yet, IF one does have severe oil dilution, to the point that it caused engine issues...that is a bigger warranty issue then one having used a different viscosity (than recommended) oil...AND how would Acura know what viscosity oil was in there??? Can they, or will they test it to see what was used? Especially if it was diluted.
I'm not sure what happened this time, (possibly something else going on?) but I have been regularly on the CR-V forum since owners of the 1.5T starting talking about the OD "isssue" and there have been virtually no reported bad effects from it. And there have been likely millions of the 1.5Ts in CR-Vs, Civics etc.
And yet, IF one does have severe oil dilution, to the point that it caused engine issues...that is a bigger warranty issue then one having used a different viscosity (than recommended) oil...AND how would Acura know what viscosity oil was in there??? Can they, or will they test it to see what was used? Especially if it was diluted.
I'm not sure what happened this time, (possibly something else going on?) but I have been regularly on the CR-V forum since owners of the 1.5T starting talking about the OD "isssue" and there have been virtually no reported bad effects from it. And there have been likely millions of the 1.5Ts in CR-Vs, Civics etc.
Doubt they will test oil, but they can ask for oil change receipts, and if receipt says 0w30 they might find an excuse of why they do not want to pay for engine damage.
Doubt they will test oil, but they can ask for oil change receipts, and if receipt says 0w30 they might find an excuse of why they do not want to pay for engine damage.
Possible, but unlikely... if the engine has sever dilution.. that would seem to be the bigger issue. (as they say, "just sayin!")
True it's not causing widespread engine failure, but the 1.5T only came out in 2016 and it was severe enough for them to issue a TSB and an update to their engine design for 19 MYs. Time will tell how these engines fare in the long run.
Also, the engine isn't the only issue, what about emissions control devices that will be effected? A big one being the catalytic converter. Also, smelling burning oil while WOT without any sign of oil leakage is alarming ... its possible that I'm getting substantial blowby causing a host of issues, including carbon build up on the valves. I'm going to be much more vigilant between this next OCI to see what's what. Hopefully the slightly thicker oil viscosity helps. This really is disappointing, as I was hoping at the very least, Honda had their act together when it came to their engines.
True it's not causing widespread engine failure, but the 1.5T only came out in 2016 and it was severe enough for them to issue a TSB and an update to their engine design for 19 MYs. Time will tell how these engines fare in the long run.
Also, the engine isn't the only issue, what about emissions control devices that will be effected? A big one being the catalytic converter. Also, smelling burning oil while WOT without any sign of oil leakage is alarming ... its possible that I'm getting substantial blowby causing a host of issues, including carbon build up on the valves. I'm going to be much more vigilant between this next OCI to see what's what. Hopefully the slightly thicker oil viscosity helps. This really is disappointing, as I was hoping at the very least, Honda had their act together when it came to their engines.
I Understand the concern.........on the up side CRV sales from ‘17-21 are at 1.3 million units. Honda extended the engine warranty but........there’s not been a huge issues with engine dropping rods, seizure, excessive oil consumption or emissions failures.
Other manufacturers with DI turbo engine like Subaru and Ford Eco boost are seeing dilution issues.
True it's not causing widespread engine failure, but the 1.5T only came out in 2016 and it was severe enough for them to issue a TSB and an update to their engine design for 19 MYs. Time will tell how these engines fare in the long run.
Also, the engine isn't the only issue, what about emissions control devices that will be effected? A big one being the catalytic converter. Also, smelling burning oil while WOT without any sign of oil leakage is alarming ... its possible that I'm getting substantial blowby causing a host of issues, including carbon build up on the valves. I'm going to be much more vigilant between this next OCI to see what's what. Hopefully the slightly thicker oil viscosity helps. This really is disappointing, as I was hoping at the very least, Honda had their act together when it came to their engines.
I was not aware of any engine changes for the 1.5T in 2019... Doesn't mean it didn't happen...I have heard that they may have had a change to the fuel injectors. But they are apparently the same part number...some sources claim they have a new supplier, or some changed/improved tolerances... Can't prove it by me.
I certainly hope that your experience was a one time thing, and all is good now. I didn't read where you had it the dealer for, at least documentation?
Mentioned earlier but I owned ‘17 CRV 1.5t experience oil dilution in the winter. 1 qt high every 2000 miles, while I waited for the they change the oil early for free. Had the fix done it improved but not completely eliminated. The changes mentioned in ‘19 was likely the software, fan and HVAC changes made during the TSB fix. I don’t remember the exact date my ‘17 was “fixed” but the TSB date is 12/2018 and 01/2019. Think mine was done 02/2019.......part of the fix was get the engine up to operating temperature quicker.
I Understand the concern.........on the up side CRV sales from ‘17-21 are at 1.3 million units. Honda extended the engine warranty but........there’s not been a huge issues with engine dropping rods, seizure, excessive oil consumption or emissions failures.
Lets wait and see when these oil diluting CRVs get into 200K+ mile club. I have pessimistic look that they no longer build things to last. They rather sell you a new car and forget about old one.
One other note on the recent post .........about the smell.......suggested Cause oil dilution.
If the fuel mixture is over rich for any reason including oil dilution the check engine light will lite and code will appear as fuel trim error.
Once it passes a set parameter, yes, it will trigger the MIL/CEL, but engines run rich at start-up. The colder it is, the richer it runs. Perhaps the commanded AFR is too rich (if it's set that way, it won't trigger the CEL), or as others suggested, this is just one of those inherent drawbacks of DI.
Yeah, DI actually has a very poor spray pattern. It’s worse in a cold engine. When the engine is cold, DI must grossly over inject fuel just for the engine to run. A lot of that fuel does not burn, most of which passes past the rings and into the oil. That’s how the oil get diluted with gas. If you step on the gas while the engine is still very cold, you only exacerbate this problem. Once the engine is warm, the ECU stops over injecting fuel.
Some cars use a combination of DI and port fuel injection. I think the Lexus 3.5 V6 is one of them. I know the Subaru BRZ/Toyota 86 2.0 is one. When the engine is ice cold, the DI injectors are “turned off” and the engine only uses the port injectors. The port injectors provide a better spray pattern and create no oil dilution problems. Under normal load (99% of the time), both DI and port injectors are used. The engine gets improved efficiency from DI and also allows the port injectors to keep the upside of the intake valves bathed with fuel and clean. Under heavy load, the port injectors turn off and only the DI system provides fuel to maximize power when needed.
I think I am avoiding the oil dilution for a couple of reasons. First, my commute to work is 42 miles each way and mostly highway. I get to operating temp in the first 10-15min and it gets held there for at least 30min. Second, and probably minor, my RDX is garaged.
I knew about the issue with the Civic so I used to check it really frequently but I stopped after about 5k milles.
I think I am avoiding the oil dilution for a couple of reasons. First, my commute to work is 42 miles each way and mostly highway. I get to operating temp in the first 10-15min and it gets held there for at least 30min. Second, and probably minor, my RDX is garaged.
I knew about the issue with the Civic so I used to check it really frequently but I stopped after about 5k milles.
My oil level seems stable, I it went up when car was driven less frequent for shorter trips. Now with 30 miles commutes, the level stays the same
May be a tiny bit of oil dilution. I don't detect a strong smell of gasoline but I did a bunch of short trips (about 10) this weekend and I think the level may be a little higher. Regardless, my oil life just hit 50% at 6000 miles so I can continue my stupidly long oil change intervals.
Is there a difference between different vendors for oil analysis? I thought someone in another thread perhaps suggested additional vendors outside of Blackstone if specifically looking for oil dilution? Not sure what the different oil analysis vendors are as well as pros/cons of each....
Yes, BlackStone will underestimate fuel dilution. But they do measure viscosity correct, so if viscosity is down, its most likely due to fuel dilution. More precise measurement from Oil Analyzers lab for fuel dilution.
How do you explain having more fuel dilution this time compared to
last time, with half of the miles driven ?
Interesting that Oil Analyzers says "GC" on the report's fuel dilution, but they now
say on their web site that they test fuel dilution with FTIR, not GC.
Yes, BlackStone will underestimate fuel dilution. But they do measure viscosity correct, so if viscosity is down, its most likely due to fuel dilution. More precise measurement from Oil Analyzers lab for fuel dilution.
Agreed. According to Mobil1, their 0W-20 ESP has a kinematic viscosity of 7.9 cSt at 100°C (212°F).
Given that your 0W-20 oil fell from 7.9 cSt to 6.6 cSt after only 3,300 miles seems concerning and is most likely due to oil dilution. It is now thinner than 0W-16 oil. If I recall, as long as oil is thicker than 6.0 cSt, it can still support an oil wedge between moving parts and therefore protect the engine. But that is at 100°C (212°F). If it were summer and the oil temp increased to 220°F-230°F, it’s viscosity could fall below that 6.0 cSt threshold. I have no doubt we can use thicker oil, especially if we use longer OCIs. Thanks for this data.
Given that your 0W-20 oil fell from 7.9 cSt to 6.6 cSt after only 3,300 miles seems concerning and is most likely due to oil dilution. It is now thinner than 0W-16 oil. If I recall, as long as oil is thicker than 6.0 cSt, it can still support an oil wedge between moving parts and therefore protect the engine. But that is at 100°C (212°F). If it were summer and the oil temp increased to 220°F-230°F, it’s viscosity could fall below that 6.0 cSt threshold. I have no doubt we can use thicker oil, especially if we use longer OCIs. Thanks for this data.
its a mistake in the report, I used Mobil1 EP 0w-20, so viscosity drop is from 8.8 to 6.6. I think its still acceptable for 0w-20, but big drop only after 3.4k miles. MID was showing 60% life
left…. I will use 5w-30, I dont need 0w as temperatures are not crazzy cold
"You'll ruin your engine! The engineers are smarter than you, why would you use a different oil than suggested? It's not only about fuel economy, tighter tolerances in today's engines require thinner oil or your engine will disassemble!!" [/s]
"You'll ruin your engine! The engineers are smarter than you, why would you use a different oil than suggested? It's not only about fuel economy, tighter tolerances in today's engines require thinner oil or your engine will disassemble!!"
🤣🤣
yep, these people seem to stay silent when hard facts are presented
its a mistake in the report, I used Mobil1 EP 0w-20, so viscosity drop is from 8.8 to 6.6. I think its still acceptable for 0w-20, but big drop only after 3.4k miles. MID was showing 60% life
left…. I will use 5w-30, I dont need 0w as temperatures are not crazzy cold
On the bright side, with that much gas in your oil, you'll never have to worry about sludge build up.
Run 0W-20, that's what Honda/Acura recommends for the engine's operating environment. If there's a strong gasoline smell in the oil, contact Acura for a ECM firmware update so the rich mixture startup is lightened per the FLASH update.
Run 0W-20, that's what Honda/Acura recommends for the engine's operating environment. If there's a strong gasoline smell in the oil, contact Acura for a ECM firmware’s update so the rich mixture startup is lightened per the FLASH update.
oh yea, just like that, call Acura for new firmware? Good luck.
I just got oil analysis from Oil Analyzers Inc. With 6028 miles on the oil, they say that I have 8.7% fuel in the oil. Since the viscosity only dropped from 8.8 (virgin oil specification) to 7.8, it seems a bit unlikely to be diluted by quite that much. The level on the dipstick hasn't much changed -- difficult to say, since it varies more with how long after shutdown it is checked, than it has varied over time/miles.
Pennzoil Ultra Platinum, 0W20, 2022 RDX. Mostly intermediate length trips (~half an hour), with a 200 mile drive (one 10 minute stop midway) 3x per month, and a few shorter trips of 15 minutes. Very little idling in traffic or otherwise. San Jose, CA, so never gets below freezing. Car garaged, maybe 50F on the coldest morning.
Gasoline in the oil will never be totally eliminated by driving long trips, once it is in there (at least, if my thinking is correct)
Gasoline isn't like water -- it doesn't all boil/evaporate at the same temperature. Some fractions vaporize starting at ~35C / 95F, but about one third will not vaporize at 104C/ 219F, which is in the range of normal operating temperature.
Gasoline in the oil will never be totally eliminated by driving long trips, once it is in there (at least, if my thinking is correct)
.
Yes, some amount of gasoline is normal in oil, and in most other cars that number is 0.5-1%. Are you suggesting that 5% is a normal level ? Have you seen what happened to viscosity due to gasoline, also normal?
Previous to today, I didn't notice a high oil level in my 2020 RDX, but seeing this thread reminded me I hadn't checked the oil in many months. I have done most of the oil changes myself.
Sure enough the level is way high. Probably an extra 0.5 to 1.0L higher than the full mark.
This RDX continues to be a major disaster. Rear window shattered in Dec 2022. Brakes still make noise. Clunky front suspension and only 34k kilometers on the clock.
I just got oil analysis from Oil Analyzers Inc. With 6028 miles on the oil, they say that I have 8.7% fuel in the oil. Since the viscosity only dropped from 8.8 (virgin oil specification) to 7.8, it seems a bit unlikely to be diluted by quite that much. The level on the dipstick hasn't much changed -- difficult to say, since it varies more with how long after shutdown it is checked, than it has varied over time/miles.
Pennzoil Ultra Platinum, 0W20, 2022 RDX. Mostly intermediate length trips (~half an hour), with a 200 mile drive (one 10 minute stop midway) 3x per month, and a few shorter trips of 15 minutes. Very little idling in traffic or otherwise. San Jose, CA, so never gets below freezing. Car garaged, maybe 50F on the coldest morning.
We're in the same area with a somewhat similar drive pattern. I've done a couple samples with Blackstone but I'm going to get the Oil Analyzers's kit at the next oil change. I've been changing the oil at 4500-5000 mile intervals and it will be interesting to see what they come up with. The Blackstone reports have always indicated only a slight amount of fuel in the oil.
We're in the same area with a somewhat similar drive pattern. I've done a couple samples with Blackstone but I'm going to get the Oil Analyzers's kit at the next oil change. I've been changing the oil at 4500-5000 mile intervals and it will be interesting to see what they come up with. The Blackstone reports have always indicated only a slight amount of fuel in the oil.
Blackstone lab does not accurately measure fuel. They underestimate it. But even with blackstone, you can see that viscosity at 100C drops a lot, this is all due to fuel. In my next run I will put 5w-30, considering viscosity drop, it will end up like 0w-20 in just few thousand miles. Will send for analysis as well.
Took my 2020 to the dealer for several problems today including the high oil level. Dealer said "normal" for turbo engine, lol. Yes 10% of oil volume being fuel is totally normal.
Meanwhile my turbo 5 cylinder Audi RS3 driven in identical conditions had a stable oil level all winter despite short trips in cold weather.
Will be selling or trading this car by end of 2023. Just need to find the right replacement.
Blackstone lab does not accurately measure fuel. They underestimate it. But even with blackstone, you can see that viscosity at 100C drops a lot, this is all due to fuel. In my next run I will put 5w-30, considering viscosity drop, it will end up like 0w-20 in just few thousand miles. Will send for analysis as well.
I've read that also, I have an extra Blackstone kit and will send a sample to both labs so we can see just how much different the results might be. It will be another couple of months though before an oil change is needed.
I've been using Valvoline 5-30 from the first oil change.
05-24-2021, 12:17 PM
