Notices

new sub speaker options and general back end disassembly

 
Old 05-18-2019, 12:58 PM
  #1  
Registered Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Age: 42
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes on 5 Posts
new sub speaker options and general back end disassembly

I did some tooling around and couldn't find much information about the 2019 subwoofer and or how to get to it so I figured I'd save future me's the trouble. Initially I'll just dive straight in to how to get to the sub and then at the end I'll discuss the direction I will be going. Just a warning, this post will be image intensive for those on their phones.

First of all, stop tugging on the subwoofer cover cause that shit ain't gonna pop off. This is what the back side of the cover looks like.







1. Remove all the junk from your trunk




2. Remove all four of your tie downs. Pry up the center cover which will expose a phillips head screw. Use a good size phillips head or you'll probably strip it. I used an impact drill because lazy.




3. With the tie downs removed you can remove the entire rail simply by pulling straight up.




4. With the rails removed the entire tub and tub cover can be pulled straight up all together. Pull it up by prying slowly on each corner. There are clips here and there that you will feel release. They aren't holding it very tightly.




5. Feel accomplishment




6. Pull straight up on the entryway sill to disconnect it from its clips.




7. Remove the cover behind the rear right seat release handle by pushing that little nub down and pulling it straight out. I leave OEM plastic covers on things cause it triggers people. I hope I had an impact here.




8. Remove the two phillips screws behind the cover.




9. Remove this plastic bolt by hand before you go tugging on shit. It's at the base of the fiber board just below the handle you were just working on.




10. I found it easiest to start tugging on the top right and working inward toward the rear seats.




11. Keep tuggin





12. Now walk up front to the passenger side rear seat and remove this tiny cover. Its at the base of the seat belt. Its not really held in by much as long as you pull it straight up.




13. I didn't find it necessary to remove the cover much more than what you see here. You can push the entire thing out of your way and if you go beyond this point you'll need to disconnect the seat release cable which really isn't necessary.




15. The amp cover has 5x 10mm bolts. You'll need to remove this before you can get the sub out. But you're super smart like me and will try anyways. So skip this step and go straight to step 14 then come back to this step when you're ready.




14. Disconnect the sub cable there in white and remove its 2x 10mm nuts and 1x 10mm bolt. Wrestle with the box for 15 minutes then finally remove the amp cover already discussed.



And you're done. When you are ready to reassemble you can use this guide by scrolling back up slowly and turning bolts right rather than left.


Below are a bunch of images I figured I'd want if I were me. The sub box depth is not even on the back side so the sub dept probably cant be much more that what it is.




Label on the sub explains why I want more bass




Amp shot




Where I have decided to place a new sub, The space is about 10x13x9"



The cover has a small channel from the front bucket to back bucket just begging to have a speaker cable running through it




From the backseat facing straight back you'll see there are several grommets that would be perfect for power to be ran.



And that's it for now. I'll post when I finish the install. I figured i'd get a conversation going to see if someone had better ideas.
likerage is offline  
The following 8 users liked this post by likerage:
Alias1431 (05-27-2019), alpine909 (05-19-2019), AZ4035 (05-19-2019), bluntman72 (05-18-2019), Duna (05-24-2019), GW208 (05-18-2019), knakane (05-23-2019), subin (05-19-2019)
Old 05-18-2019, 10:54 PM
  #2  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Age: 42
Posts: 471
Received 92 Likes on 61 Posts
While youíre in there - take out the sub box and let me know if thatís open to the inside of the rear quarter panel. I have a dent thatís in the body line like almost where the sun sits. Iím trying to get fixed via PDR. Was curious if I could access it from behind the sub box.

As as far as your mods - it all sounds good so far! That tub is screaming for a sub box!
Dizzyg12 is offline  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:17 AM
  #3  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,081
Received 274 Likes on 194 Posts
Those plastic trays can cause annoying thumps and rattles just from road vibration. You might have to do some work to keep your bass tight if you stuff an enclosed sub in there.

Are you planning to cut an opening in the hinged cargo area floor or have the sub sealed up underneath it?

For any other intrepid explorers, use a #3 Phillips bit ( squared off tip ) on those tie-down bolts, not the more common #2 Phillips, or you will probably strip the bolt head and then you'll be messing around with drills and bolt extractors.
Wander is offline  
Old 05-20-2019, 04:19 PM
  #4  
Registered Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Age: 42
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Wander View Post
Those plastic trays can cause annoying thumps and rattles just from road vibration. You might have to do some work to keep your bass tight if you stuff an enclosed sub in there.

Are you planning to cut an opening in the hinged cargo area floor or have the sub sealed up underneath.
For all the complications you listed above and the fact that the most I could get out of that space is a sealed box with about .4 cubic feet I decided against it.
I have gone from a custom box to just deciding to throw a regular old box behind the seat. Now I need to determine which wires I'm going to tap to feed the new amp. I am worried that the wires feeding the OEM sub will be too heavily restricted in frequency and do bad things to the sound. So I may do a combo of a door speaker and the amp into a hi-low converter.
likerage is offline  
Old 05-21-2019, 04:56 PM
  #5  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,081
Received 274 Likes on 194 Posts
There are some epic threads on this over at Piloteers. Posing as Wanderer, I am responsible for some of the noise, but I traded my Pilot Touring for my RDX Advance ( which has massively better audio bone stock, BTW ).

Basically, every audio channel of the system is digitally processed at a DSP/digital amp, and there is no such thing as a "flat" unaltered speaker output, even within the typical frequency range for a given driver. Every channel is tuned in some way to compensate for response anomalies of the associated drivers and their acoustic environment. It's not just a matter of analog crossovers dividing up the frequency band. So simply recombining the sub and door channels won't restore a flat full-spectrum audio signal. To do it right, you would have to go all-in with a multi-channel digital recombiner/flattener or whatever they call such things. And depending on what trim level of RDX you're working with, that's a whole lot of channels.

Personally, I would just take the sub signal and run with it. You already went to the work of exposing the speaker leads. But you might want to unplug the ANC controller to avoid feedback effects.
Wander is offline  
Old 05-21-2019, 05:08 PM
  #6  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,081
Received 274 Likes on 194 Posts
BTW, if you find that you end up with too much low bass and not enough mid-bass, you could run the powered enclosed sub along with the stock sub. But usually the problem is too much mid-bass, which makes the bass sound muddy and indistinct.
Wander is offline  
Old 05-21-2019, 08:05 PM
  #7  
Registered Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Age: 42
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Wander View Post
BTW, if you find that you end up with too much low bass and not enough mid-bass, you could run the powered enclosed sub along with the stock sub. But usually the problem is too much mid-bass, which makes the bass sound muddy and indistinct.
I own the advanced so yeah there will be quite a few channels to pick from. Looking at the amp it appears that the left most connections are the preamp inputs but they are not normal rca connections. I looked around hoping that it was a normal Honda connection that has already been exploited in the community but I found nothing.

I plan to install an LC2i and I'll take in both a rear channel and the sub input and hope the converter can correct or fix any odd bass. Initially I'll keep the OEM sub connected and see how it sounds.

I'll get it all installed this weekend when I'm back in town and post the results.
likerage is offline  
Old 05-21-2019, 09:04 PM
  #8  
New Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 34
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Wander View Post
There are some epic threads on this over at Piloteers. Posing as Wanderer, I am responsible for some of the noise, but I traded my Pilot Touring for my RDX Advance ( which has massively better audio bone stock, BTW ).
.
Are you saying the lowest trim RDX has the better sounding system? Iíve only tested the Advance model and wasnt too impressed but I didnt have a good audio source. I just used XM because i thought it was supposed to be CD quality but i read that Iím wrong.

If i were to get the A spec or Advance with the 3D speakers, Iíd never utilize the 5.1 anyway. All my music is stereo.

Thanks OP for spending the time taking and posting pics.
dragonballzz is offline  
Old 05-21-2019, 11:18 PM
  #9  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,081
Received 274 Likes on 194 Posts
XM is nowhere near CD quality. It's heavily compressed and limited in frequency response. Feed the system something decent via USB.

I didn't compare base 2019 RDX to my old 2016 Pilot Touring in terms of audio, but having speakers mounted higher in the front door panels helps with clarity.

Having speakers mounted in the ceiling is pure genius, especially for my tired old ears. Amazing improvement in clarity, irrespective of ambiance or "3D" effects.

The problem with "traditional" door speaker placement is your knees and ankles get front row seats for the concert. Your ears are up in the nose-bleeds with the echoes off the roof and balconies. Having time-aligned speakers mounted near your ears solves this problem.

Also, although the higher-end Honda audio systems are very similar in architecture to the "Acura ELS" systems, allegedly the Acura systems get more fine-tuning.

To OP, I've resisted digging into this because I'm satisfied with the system as-is, but I'm curious about what amp you're looking at. Is there a dedicated sub amp, or are you looking at the multichannel DSP/amp?

If it's the latter, my understanding is that there's really nothing you could tap into between the head-unit and the DSP/amp because a whole bunch of complex processing happens at the "amp". Even overall volume control is done at the DSP under control of a discrete volume control line from the head-unit. So for any aftermarket equipment you have to work with the speaker-level analog outputs from the DSP/amp. There are no suitable "pre-amp" level analog signals.

I think there are threads in the TL forums on this. Search for Acura ELS.

Last edited by Wander; 05-21-2019 at 11:20 PM.
Wander is offline  
Old 05-21-2019, 11:34 PM
  #10  
New Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 34
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Wander View Post
XM is nowhere near CD quality. It's heavily compressed and limited in frequency response. Feed the system something decent via USB.

I didn't compare base 2019 RDX to my old 2016 Pilot Touring in terms of audio, but having speakers mounted higher in the front door panels helps with clarity.

Having speakers mounted in the ceiling is pure genius, especially for my tired old ears. Amazing improvement in clarity, irrespective of ambiance or "3D" effects.

The problem with "traditional" door speaker placement is your knees and ankles get front row seats for the concert. Your ears are up in the nose-bleeds with the echoes off the roof and balconies. Having time-aligned speakers mounted near your ears solves this problem.

Also, although the higher-end Honda audio systems are very similar in architecture to the "Acura ELS" systems, allegedly the Acura systems get more fine-tuning.

To OP, I've resisted digging into this because I'm satisfied with the system as-is, but I'm curious about what amp you're looking at. Is there a dedicated sub amp, or are you looking at the multichannel DSP/amp?

If it's the latter, my understanding is that there's really nothing you could tap into between the head-unit and the DSP/amp because a whole bunch of complex processing happens at the "amp". Even overall volume control is done at the DSP under control of a discrete volume control line from the head-unit. So for any aftermarket equipment you have to work with the speaker-level analog outputs from the DSP/amp. There are no suitable "pre-amp" level analog signals.

I think there are threads in the TL forums on this. Search for Acura ELS.
Can you clarify what you mean when you said the bone stock (base level) RDX has better audio? Are you comparing it with the higher trim levels of the RDX or to your old Pilot?

XM was advertised as having excellent quality back when they first started. Apparently quality has gone down.
dragonballzz is offline  
Old 05-22-2019, 06:36 AM
  #11  
Registered Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Age: 42
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Wander View Post
If it's the latter, my understanding is that there's really nothing you could tap into between the head-unit and the DSP/amp because a whole bunch of complex processing happens at the "amp". Even overall volume control is done at the DSP under control of a discrete volume control line from the head-unit. So for any aftermarket equipment you have to work with the speaker-level analog outputs from the DSP/amp. There are no suitable "pre-amp" level analog signals.
That is why I'm going to use the LC2i converter. I'll convert the digital output of the factory amp back to analog. It is supposed to do some clever work to back off some of the things that the factory amp is doing that I specifically dont want like rolling off the amp power at high volumes or filtering out some frequencies that the factory 8" cant handle. I'll report back its efficacy.
likerage is offline  
Old 05-22-2019, 12:09 PM
  #12  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,081
Received 274 Likes on 194 Posts
Originally Posted by dragonballzz View Post
Can you clarify what you mean when you said the bone stock (base level) RDX has better audio? Are you comparing it with the higher trim levels of the RDX or to your old Pilot?

XM was advertised as having excellent quality back when they first started. Apparently quality has gone down.
I was comparing my old 2016 Pilot Touring to my new 2019 RDX Advance. I haven't listened to RDX base level. I meant "bone stock" as my vehicle ( Advance ) with unmodified audio. Kinda wish I'd never said it. I'm not saying 2019 RDX Advance is going to win any auto audio competitions, that's a different ballgame, but it's the best factory system I have owned.

"XM was advertised". Uh, whatever. Maybe it's because they are dividing their available bandwidth into hundreds of channels of junk, but I've never been impressed. The digital signal is heavily compressed, and it shows. It may be free of static, but it's lifeless and muddy. But if you're comparing to elevator muzak, it's probably fine.

Last edited by Wander; 05-22-2019 at 12:16 PM.
Wander is offline  
Old 05-22-2019, 12:43 PM
  #13  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,081
Received 274 Likes on 194 Posts
I finally got curious enough to look up the AudioControl L2Ci. It takes 2 channels of analog speaker-level signals and reduces them to pre-amp level analog outputs, with some processing along the way, including some kind of crossover to generate an analog pre-amp level bass signal. So it needs to be connected to factory speaker wires. The pre-amp level analog output from L2Ci can go to an aftermarket amp.

And from another thread, it sounds like there is a dedicated factory sub amp mounted below the subwoofer. I guess I'm less confused now. But I still need coffee.

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-rdx-...nstall-975342/


Last edited by Wander; 05-22-2019 at 12:46 PM.
Wander is offline  
Old 05-23-2019, 01:52 AM
  #14  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,081
Received 274 Likes on 194 Posts
Originally Posted by Wander View Post
And from another thread, it sounds like there is a dedicated factory sub amp mounted below the subwoofer.
I take it back. That's the multi-channel ELS DSP/amp that's lurking beneath the subwoofer, which explains all the connections. Beats me why they stuck it way back there.
Wander is offline  
Old 05-25-2019, 06:17 PM
  #15  
Registered Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Age: 42
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes on 5 Posts
First I'll show images of the install then talk about how I feel with the components and sound.


Ok, so this is what I ended up with. I tapped both the sub channel and another channel. I'm not sure where it goes but it is certainly one of the main door speakers. I still have the 8" stock sub running and I used the amp's lowpass filter to tune out much of the mid range so the 10" sub can focus on only the low end.




Soldered, heat shrinked, electrical taped, and finish taped everything so nothing will be coming loose any time soon




This was the initial install and I cleaned up the cables a bit before I closed her up. But i wont be looking at it much anyway. Everything was 3M double side taped down so it shouldn't be moving much but I'll check it again in a few weeks.





Ok, so the products. I used a Focal Solid 1 amp (600 watt RMS), DC level 1 dual voice coil 10" sub (300 watt RMS) wired and tested at 8 ohms , and LC2i hi-low converter.

First impressions from an objective standpoint - I am so happy to finally hear the bass tones that I knew I wasn't hearing in the stock setup. It's amazing just how much of my music was missing and you wouldn't know unless you improved the OEM speakers.

Final impressions - This was entirely too much system. I love bass, I love feeling my music, but holy crap. Its not only an issue of overdoing the equipment. On paper this setup shouldn't be overboard. The issues is the acoustics of the car and a backward facing sub. With the amp pushing about 300 watts and the head unit at about 60%; my wife's voice was shaking as she was trying to scream at me. So I adjusted the amp volume to about 25% and it is absolutely perfect. I could have gone smaller on just about everything - 100 to 150 watts RMS would have been more than enough.

Last thought, I will be replacing that box. I needed something quick and it was entirely too big. The sub I got was tuned for .5 ft3 and the box I got has to be like 50 ft3 /s - it is entirely too big.

So that's it. The entire install took about 3-4 hours and the majority of that was trying to run the power to the back.
likerage is offline  
Old 05-25-2019, 10:56 PM
  #16  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Age: 42
Posts: 471
Received 92 Likes on 61 Posts
Your kid is gonna have one hell of a headache too
Dizzyg12 is offline  
The following users liked this post:
ToniRDX19 (07-20-2019)
Old 05-26-2019, 12:19 AM
  #17  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,081
Received 274 Likes on 194 Posts
Originally Posted by Dizzyg12 View Post
Your kid is gonna have one hell of a headache too
Yep. That kid's gonna be a rocker.
Wander is offline  
Old 05-26-2019, 05:11 PM
  #18  
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,081
Received 274 Likes on 194 Posts
BTW, for future reference, the pin-outs for the audio connectors are available in the on-line service manual, Honda/Acura Service Express. A one day subscription costs $10. In case you want to know what wires go to what.
Wander is offline  
Old 07-11-2019, 08:54 PM
  #19  
Registered Member
 
Funz51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Age: 55
Posts: 34
Received 10 Likes on 8 Posts
The sub, being 2ohms at 50 watts, is as efficient as a 200 watt at 8 ohms. So it it not as underpowered as you inferred. The amp has got to be somewhat beefy to handle that 2 ohm load also.
I have found that the deep bass is really dependent on the source material. The RDX has so much mid bass near the driver, which I appreciate, that sometimes it is hard to discern the blend of front and back....exactly what one wants.
of course, if you want to shake the car, replace it.
i also wish we had more specific control of the sub... and a easier way to replace it. You did a lot of work to get into it. Thanks for sharing.
Funz51 is offline  
Old 07-11-2019, 09:53 PM
  #20  
EFR
Registered Member
 
EFR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Age: 62
Posts: 136
Received 24 Likes on 17 Posts
Agree. My 2006 Land Rover has Bass, Treble, and Sub control, and I wish this had the 'sub' also.
EFR is offline  
Old 07-12-2019, 09:06 AM
  #21  
Registered Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Age: 42
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Funz51 View Post
The sub, being 2ohms at 50 watts, is as efficient as a 200 watt at 8 ohms. So it it not as underpowered as you inferred.
That is a silly comment. The difference in equipment is night and day. We're are not discussing the math of the resistance vs power. We're discussing the equipment behind it. The stated 50 watts @2ohms doesn't mean much if you don't know how the equalizer behind it is utilizing it. For instance, if I placed a similar placard on my equipment it would say 600watts @ 8ohms but clearly i'm not utilizing all of it.
likerage is offline  
 
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
tekopp
5G TLX Problems & Fixes
15
06-28-2015 06:24 PM
prosun
Second Generation RL (2005-2012)
2
10-08-2014 03:54 PM
phishfood
2G RL Tires, Wheels & Suspension
5
05-15-2011 11:26 AM
JTS97Z28
Third Generation TL (2004-2008)
1
05-07-2009 11:03 AM
myron
3G TL Tires, Wheels & Suspension
38
01-31-2009 04:57 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: new sub speaker options and general back end disassembly


Contact Us - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.