massive hesitation on acceleration after braking is driving me NUTS !!
10-30-2019, 07:47 PM
#201
Gearhead
Did you try brake torquing it ever? I have tested about 50 runs now. Tuned and untuned. In almost everyone it takes at least .5 seconds to go from 0-5 mph. I used Dragy which has proven to be very accurate when at the strip.
Have you read through the thread I started regarding actual times from my testing? The tune takes off quite a bit of time, about .5 seconds, on the 0-60 time but it has shown time and again it is actually reducing the 5-60 mph part of that run.
Go brake torque yours and see what happens when you launch. Also is your SHAWD or FWD?
Have you read through the thread I started regarding actual times from my testing? The tune takes off quite a bit of time, about .5 seconds, on the 0-60 time but it has shown time and again it is actually reducing the 5-60 mph part of that run.
Go brake torque yours and see what happens when you launch. Also is your SHAWD or FWD?
10-31-2019, 01:44 AM
#202
Did you try brake torquing it ever? I have tested about 50 runs now. Tuned and untuned. In almost everyone it takes at least .5 seconds to go from 0-5 mph. I used Dragy which has proven to be very accurate when at the strip.
Have you read through the thread I started regarding actual times from my testing? The tune takes off quite a bit of time, about .5 seconds, on the 0-60 time but it has shown time and again it is actually reducing the 5-60 mph part of that run.
Go brake torque yours and see what happens when you launch. Also is your SHAWD or FWD?
Have you read through the thread I started regarding actual times from my testing? The tune takes off quite a bit of time, about .5 seconds, on the 0-60 time but it has shown time and again it is actually reducing the 5-60 mph part of that run.
Go brake torque yours and see what happens when you launch. Also is your SHAWD or FWD?
Considering how compact the 10 AT is, I can see why Honda chose to prevent building boost at idle, and maybe intentionally slow down the ramp of boost in 1st gear. The torque mulitiplication in 1st gear is insane...
Like I have been saying lately, do yourself a favor and get your ECU updated to A88 or above. The new settings hide the delay pretty well in most cases, though not completely eliminated them. For lack of better description, the car basically drives more like a variable displacement NA than a turbo engine with the new settings.
10-31-2019, 06:00 AM
#203
10-31-2019, 07:50 AM
#204
Expanse me
I read this from gooberman link below. A4 owners have this same throttle issue. " Any way some reading can be done here. https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a4-...e-lag-2938803/ "
it appears to work for a while for one owner who posted it. (reading other forums can sometimes be enlightening..). He thinks it has something to do with resetting the TPS. I personally did not see a change. But it is easy so try!
it appears to work for a while for one owner who posted it. (reading other forums can sometimes be enlightening..). He thinks it has something to do with resetting the TPS. I personally did not see a change. But it is easy so try!
10-31-2019, 08:40 AM
#205
Expanse me
here is some interesting reading.
Quick Enables
it is a link to a ktuner help page describing what happens with the boost, and what they do to change it. If read carefully, one can see what kind of restrictions are made when mashing the throttle. There are boost targets, boost ramps, etc, that limits the way the car accelerates. The base tune creeps the boost up slowly, to a boost target, depending on the throttle position, time, load, etc.
Quick Enables
it is a link to a ktuner help page describing what happens with the boost, and what they do to change it. If read carefully, one can see what kind of restrictions are made when mashing the throttle. There are boost targets, boost ramps, etc, that limits the way the car accelerates. The base tune creeps the boost up slowly, to a boost target, depending on the throttle position, time, load, etc.
10-31-2019, 08:56 AM
#206
Intermediate
I read this from gooberman link below. A4 owners have this same throttle issue. " Any way some reading can be done here. https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a4-...e-lag-2938803/ "
it appears to work for a while for one owner who posted it. (reading other forums can sometimes be enlightening..). He thinks it has something to do with resetting the TPS. I personally did not see a change. But it is easy so try!
it appears to work for a while for one owner who posted it. (reading other forums can sometimes be enlightening..). He thinks it has something to do with resetting the TPS. I personally did not see a change. But it is easy so try!
With the A4 we bump the shifter back and it puts it into S mode and it's night and day difference. If I am in a situation like the thread started (having to get across traffic) I just go into S mode. I was expecting the RDX would have a similar mode. We haven't bought it yet and it'll be the wife's car so I'm hoping it won't bother me too much.
10-31-2019, 09:49 AM
#207
Expanse me
I did try this on my A4 and I didn't notice any difference.
With the A4 we bump the shifter back and it puts it into S mode and it's night and day difference. If I am in a situation like the thread started (having to get across traffic) I just go into S mode. I was expecting the RDX would have a similar mode. We haven't bought it yet and it'll be the wife's car so I'm hoping it won't bother me too much.
With the A4 we bump the shifter back and it puts it into S mode and it's night and day difference. If I am in a situation like the thread started (having to get across traffic) I just go into S mode. I was expecting the RDX would have a similar mode. We haven't bought it yet and it'll be the wife's car so I'm hoping it won't bother me too much.
10-31-2019, 11:52 AM
#208
Do you remember when the boost kicked in in 1st gear on your car? In YouTube clips I saw, the boost gauge turned red between 2-2.5k and became a fireball after 3k. Maybe the gauge has some lag, but the ramp is still slow to me.
Considering how compact the 10 AT is, I can see why Honda chose to prevent building boost at idle, and maybe intentionally slow down the ramp of boost in 1st gear. The torque mulitiplication in 1st gear is insane...
Like I have been saying lately, do yourself a favor and get your ECU updated to A88 or above. The new settings hide the delay pretty well in most cases, though not completely eliminated them. For lack of better description, the car basically drives more like a variable displacement NA than a turbo engine with the new settings.
Considering how compact the 10 AT is, I can see why Honda chose to prevent building boost at idle, and maybe intentionally slow down the ramp of boost in 1st gear. The torque mulitiplication in 1st gear is insane...
Like I have been saying lately, do yourself a favor and get your ECU updated to A88 or above. The new settings hide the delay pretty well in most cases, though not completely eliminated them. For lack of better description, the car basically drives more like a variable displacement NA than a turbo engine with the new settings.
10-31-2019, 12:38 PM
#210
Expanse me
I believe you need to 1) complain to the dealer and point to the Bulletin for the upgrade, or 2) tune with Hondata or Ktune.
and yes, it is A89 that you need. A88, from what I could see in the past, had the delay. You may also feel a tighter steering in sport, and harder braking, along with other attributes that others have mentioned the past few days.
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markm929 (10-31-2019)
10-31-2019, 02:02 PM
#211
It is the ECU burn. The original is placed on a sticker on your ECU.
I believe you need to 1) complain to the dealer and point to the Bulletin for the upgrade, or 2) tune with Hondata or Ktune.
and yes, it is A89 that you need. A88, from what I could see in the past, had the delay. You may also feel a tighter steering in sport, and harder braking, along with other attributes that others have mentioned the past few days.
I believe you need to 1) complain to the dealer and point to the Bulletin for the upgrade, or 2) tune with Hondata or Ktune.
and yes, it is A89 that you need. A88, from what I could see in the past, had the delay. You may also feel a tighter steering in sport, and harder braking, along with other attributes that others have mentioned the past few days.
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Funz51 (10-31-2019)
11-01-2019, 01:03 AM
#215
Drifting
Pretty sad you have nothing better to do with your life than troll a car forum.
But given the level of intellect and maturity you have demonstrated, I don't really expect that to change.
But given the level of intellect and maturity you have demonstrated, I don't really expect that to change.
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Funz51 (11-01-2019)
11-01-2019, 08:42 AM
#218
Expanse me
That's a good question Mike. If you look at the bulletins stated at the top of this forum, it lists them. I only see 'TSB 19-022 - Soft Brake Pedal or Excessive Brake Pedal Travel' as a possibility for them to plug in and burn..it may not be the whole package of A89.
Can someone else chime in on this question please?
Can someone else chime in on this question please?
11-01-2019, 12:01 PM
#219
I wanted to share my experiences with my 2013 RDX.
1) Since new I have had the issue of an annoying Pause when trying to accelerate after braking from slow speed. Could never replicate it when with the dealership. Complained so many times. They always told me nobody else has complained.
2) A couple of years ago I had to have the trans fluids changed out ( at Acura's expense) as the trans was groaning slightly under acceleration. The new fluid improves things, but the slight grumble never completely went away.
3) Recently I have been hearing a slight rattle, as if a metal heat shield needed tightening coming from under the car. I took the car to the dealership today for a regular oil change etc. and mentioned this noise. They have come back to me and told me the torque converter is shot and must be replaced.
I am thinking that this whole trans issue is completely linked. But as of now I am about to be given the bill for the replacement.
Anyone else had similar experiences?
1) Since new I have had the issue of an annoying Pause when trying to accelerate after braking from slow speed. Could never replicate it when with the dealership. Complained so many times. They always told me nobody else has complained.
2) A couple of years ago I had to have the trans fluids changed out ( at Acura's expense) as the trans was groaning slightly under acceleration. The new fluid improves things, but the slight grumble never completely went away.
3) Recently I have been hearing a slight rattle, as if a metal heat shield needed tightening coming from under the car. I took the car to the dealership today for a regular oil change etc. and mentioned this noise. They have come back to me and told me the torque converter is shot and must be replaced.
I am thinking that this whole trans issue is completely linked. But as of now I am about to be given the bill for the replacement.
Anyone else had similar experiences?
11-01-2019, 12:06 PM
#220
Expanse me
I wanted to share my experiences with my 2013 RDX.
1) Since new I have had the issue of an annoying Pause when trying to accelerate after braking from slow speed. Could never replicate it when with the dealership. Complained so many times. They always told me nobody else has complained.
2) A couple of years ago I had to have the trans fluids changed out ( at Acura's expense) as the trans was groaning slightly under acceleration. The new fluid improves things, but the slight grumble never completely went away.
3) Recently I have been hearing a slight rattle, as if a metal heat shield needed tightening coming from under the car. I took the car to the dealership today for a regular oil change etc. and mentioned this noise. They have come back to me and told me the torque converter is shot and must be replaced.
I am thinking that this whole trans issue is completely linked. But as of now I am about to be given the bill for the replacement.
Anyone else had similar experiences?
1) Since new I have had the issue of an annoying Pause when trying to accelerate after braking from slow speed. Could never replicate it when with the dealership. Complained so many times. They always told me nobody else has complained.
2) A couple of years ago I had to have the trans fluids changed out ( at Acura's expense) as the trans was groaning slightly under acceleration. The new fluid improves things, but the slight grumble never completely went away.
3) Recently I have been hearing a slight rattle, as if a metal heat shield needed tightening coming from under the car. I took the car to the dealership today for a regular oil change etc. and mentioned this noise. They have come back to me and told me the torque converter is shot and must be replaced.
I am thinking that this whole trans issue is completely linked. But as of now I am about to be given the bill for the replacement.
Anyone else had similar experiences?
11-01-2019, 06:52 PM
#223
Drifting
Torque converter problems aren't uncommon for the Honda/Acura 6-speed AT in 2nd-gen RDX ( 2013-2018), especially as the miles pile up, but there's no evidence that faulty torque converters have anything to do with the hesitation issues of the 10-speed AT in the 3rd-gen RDX powertrain. If anything, Acura may have been too aggressive with dialing back engine output to protect the torque converter or who-knows-what-else in the drivetrain.
It's too bad the TC in your beloved RDX gave up the ghost shortly after the powertrain warranty had expired. It wouldn't hurt to request goodwill cost-splitting, especially since there had been a documented prior complaint related to the transmission and servicing had been done at the dealer. AFAIK it's up to the regional Acura rep.
Good luck.
It's too bad the TC in your beloved RDX gave up the ghost shortly after the powertrain warranty had expired. It wouldn't hurt to request goodwill cost-splitting, especially since there had been a documented prior complaint related to the transmission and servicing had been done at the dealer. AFAIK it's up to the regional Acura rep.
Good luck.
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IRJ (11-03-2019)
11-02-2019, 12:47 AM
#224
That's a good question Mike. If you look at the bulletins stated at the top of this forum, it lists them. I only see 'TSB 19-022 - Soft Brake Pedal or Excessive Brake Pedal Travel' as a possibility for them to plug in and burn..it may not be the whole package of A89.
Can someone else chime in on this question please?
Can someone else chime in on this question please?
If your VIN is not covered by any of the TSBs, you can ask nicely your dealership to update for you. The quote should be no more than one hour labor. Some dealerships will do it, but some will not. Then you will need Hondata/KTuner, because even though a new ECU is less than Hondata/KTuner, you will need to reprogram the keys to the ECU, and might end up cost more.
11-02-2019, 01:42 AM
#225
Drifting
This is a little tricky, because all related TSBs are VIN specific. There are two TSBs directly related to ECU firmware updates, 19-062/063. But they apply to early 19 RDXs. TSB 19-022 is again VIN specific, but cover pretty much all RDXs built in 2018. However, it may or may not update the ECU firmware, because I am the only one who felt the other changes on the thread about soft brake pedal.
If your VIN is not covered by any of the TSBs, you can ask nicely your dealership to update for you. The quote should be no more than one hour labor. Some dealerships will do it, but some will not. Then you will need Hondata/KTuner, because even though a new ECU is less than Hondata/KTuner, you will need to reprogram the keys to the ECU, and might end up cost more.
If your VIN is not covered by any of the TSBs, you can ask nicely your dealership to update for you. The quote should be no more than one hour labor. Some dealerships will do it, but some will not. Then you will need Hondata/KTuner, because even though a new ECU is less than Hondata/KTuner, you will need to reprogram the keys to the ECU, and might end up cost more.
My ECU label reads -A66, and the build date is May 2018, but I don't know how to check the current firmware revision without pleading with dealer service. They know I'm a pest, but they also know I have a whole family fleet of Acuras I bought from them. Maybe I need to do a road trip so I can get to the next service interval. But then I'll have to deal with the infotainment system for hours and hours, and that might put me right over the edge!
11-02-2019, 01:59 PM
#226
Re (2) in my original post there are a number of seemingly related Acura TSBs
3/19/18 B17-017 NHTSA ID # 10133011
8/3/16 B16043 10085025
4/4/17 B17-017 10098870
4/4/17 B16-043 10098869
8/13/16 B16043 10085025
All of these name the Torque Converter. Acura took my car and assessed it was within one of these TSBs (not sure which) and the "fix" was to flush out the trans fluids and replace with new fluid.
I am now highly suspicious that the problem may well have been the first sign of a Torque Convert about to go wrong and the new fluids just were enough to allow me to put more mileage on my car before the final failure process began.
Anyone with a similar experience?
3/19/18 B17-017 NHTSA ID # 10133011
8/3/16 B16043 10085025
4/4/17 B17-017 10098870
4/4/17 B16-043 10098869
8/13/16 B16043 10085025
All of these name the Torque Converter. Acura took my car and assessed it was within one of these TSBs (not sure which) and the "fix" was to flush out the trans fluids and replace with new fluid.
I am now highly suspicious that the problem may well have been the first sign of a Torque Convert about to go wrong and the new fluids just were enough to allow me to put more mileage on my car before the final failure process began.
Anyone with a similar experience?
11-02-2019, 02:28 PM
#227
Expanse me
Re (2) in my original post there are a number of seemingly related Acura TSBs
3/19/18 B17-017 NHTSA ID # 10133011
8/3/16 B16043 10085025
4/4/17 B17-017 10098870
4/4/17 B16-043 10098869
8/13/16 B16043 10085025
All of these name the Torque Converter. Acura took my car and assessed it was within one of these TSBs (not sure which) and the "fix" was to flush out the trans fluids and replace with new fluid.
I am now highly suspicious that the problem may well have been the first sign of a Torque Convert about to go wrong and the new fluids just were enough to allow me to put more mileage on my car before the final failure process began.
Anyone with a similar experience?
3/19/18 B17-017 NHTSA ID # 10133011
8/3/16 B16043 10085025
4/4/17 B17-017 10098870
4/4/17 B16-043 10098869
8/13/16 B16043 10085025
All of these name the Torque Converter. Acura took my car and assessed it was within one of these TSBs (not sure which) and the "fix" was to flush out the trans fluids and replace with new fluid.
I am now highly suspicious that the problem may well have been the first sign of a Torque Convert about to go wrong and the new fluids just were enough to allow me to put more mileage on my car before the final failure process began.
Anyone with a similar experience?
11-02-2019, 11:05 PM
#229
This is a little tricky, because all related TSBs are VIN specific. There are two TSBs directly related to ECU firmware updates, 19-062/063. But they apply to early 19 RDXs. TSB 19-022 is again VIN specific, but cover pretty much all RDXs built in 2018. However, it may or may not update the ECU firmware, because I am the only one who felt the other changes on the thread about soft brake pedal.
If your VIN is not covered by any of the TSBs, you can ask nicely your dealership to update for you. The quote should be no more than one hour labor. Some dealerships will do it, but some will not. Then you will need Hondata/KTuner, because even though a new ECU is less than Hondata/KTuner, you will need to reprogram the keys to the ECU, and might end up cost more.
If your VIN is not covered by any of the TSBs, you can ask nicely your dealership to update for you. The quote should be no more than one hour labor. Some dealerships will do it, but some will not. Then you will need Hondata/KTuner, because even though a new ECU is less than Hondata/KTuner, you will need to reprogram the keys to the ECU, and might end up cost more.
I will complain and see what they say....
11-02-2019, 11:16 PM
#230
Drifting
Re (2) in my original post there are a number of seemingly related Acura TSBs
3/19/18 B17-017 NHTSA ID # 10133011
8/3/16 B16043 10085025
4/4/17 B17-017 10098870
4/4/17 B16-043 10098869
8/13/16 B16043 10085025
All of these name the Torque Converter. Acura took my car and assessed it was within one of these TSBs (not sure which) and the "fix" was to flush out the trans fluids and replace with new fluid.
I am now highly suspicious that the problem may well have been the first sign of a Torque Convert about to go wrong and the new fluids just were enough to allow me to put more mileage on my car before the final failure process began.
Anyone with a similar experience?
3/19/18 B17-017 NHTSA ID # 10133011
8/3/16 B16043 10085025
4/4/17 B17-017 10098870
4/4/17 B16-043 10098869
8/13/16 B16043 10085025
All of these name the Torque Converter. Acura took my car and assessed it was within one of these TSBs (not sure which) and the "fix" was to flush out the trans fluids and replace with new fluid.
I am now highly suspicious that the problem may well have been the first sign of a Torque Convert about to go wrong and the new fluids just were enough to allow me to put more mileage on my car before the final failure process began.
Anyone with a similar experience?
Having said that, if you go to forums for cars that have the same transmission as yours, you will find complaints about rumbling or vibration from the TC. I happen to have a 2014 MDX with that 6-speed AT ( in addition to a 2019 RDX ), and I have had vibration problems in that vehicle that turned out to be related to engine mounts and the cylinder shutdown system ( VCM ). I hope. But the TC was something I was concerned about, especially when I was deciding whether to keep the car after the powertrain warranty expired.
"Rattling like a tin can" suggests a more serious mechanical failure in the TC. AFAIK that kind of catastrophic failure is not common. But I'm just a DIY guy.
Try MDXers or the section of Acurazine for 2nd-gen RDX or 2nd and 3rd-gen MDX. This sub-forum is for the 2019+ RDX, which has a different transmission, a different torque converter, a different engine, and different computerized controls. Not the same.
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IRJ (11-03-2019)
11-02-2019, 11:30 PM
#231
Drifting
Apple vs orange. Accord is a FWD sedan with a lot less mass to accelerate than a 2-ton crossover.
I seem to recall a 5-speed manual Accord V6 in my stable years ago. Fun car, for a family mobile. Until it snowed.
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Midnight Mystery (11-03-2019)
11-03-2019, 07:26 AM
#234
Suzuka Master
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Midnight Mystery (11-03-2019)
11-03-2019, 10:56 AM
#235
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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My 2019, with or without Hondata tune, would hesitate after coming off the brake as I apply the had pedal, with a bit of rolling speed. I think this is most likely the drive by wire lag for fuel economy purpose as well as transmission lag.
From a dead stop, it hasn't been an issue for me.
I'm trading my 2019 for a 2020 this coming week. I will see if the new one is any better.
From a dead stop, it hasn't been an issue for me.
I'm trading my 2019 for a 2020 this coming week. I will see if the new one is any better.
11-03-2019, 11:10 AM
#236
Suzuka Master
My 2019, with or without Hondata tune, would hesitate after coming off the brake as I apply the had pedal, with a bit of rolling speed. I think this is most likely the drive by wire lag for fuel economy purpose as well as transmission lag.
From a dead stop, it hasn't been an issue for me.
I'm trading my 2019 for a 2020 this coming week. I will see if the new one is any better.
From a dead stop, it hasn't been an issue for me.
I'm trading my 2019 for a 2020 this coming week. I will see if the new one is any better.
11-03-2019, 11:14 AM
#237
You'll Never Walk Alone
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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Yes it's the same, down to the colors lol.
Dealer called me if I would like to return the 2019 for a 2020 with no down payment and same monthly payment. It's a lease.
I probably wouldn't have done it if my wife didn't get in an accident before in the 2019 model. For me ever since the accident, the car just doesn't quite feel the same as before. And if I were to keep it for long, I wouldn't want one with a an accident record.
Dealer called me if I would like to return the 2019 for a 2020 with no down payment and same monthly payment. It's a lease.
I probably wouldn't have done it if my wife didn't get in an accident before in the 2019 model. For me ever since the accident, the car just doesn't quite feel the same as before. And if I were to keep it for long, I wouldn't want one with a an accident record.
11-03-2019, 11:32 AM
#238
After the firmware update, the lag under re-acceleration scenario is greatly reduced and more importantly the lag is more predictable. I feel the transmission is more prepared to downshift either by giving more throttle, or by manually downshift. The worst case scenario rarely happens now, and when it does I feel the lag is closer to 1 second. I don't have datalog yet, so all of these are based on feel.
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Funz51 (11-03-2019)
11-03-2019, 11:45 AM
#239
You'll Never Walk Alone
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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Yea, I think the "feel" is actually the most important. If you feel the huge lag, you will much less confident in the car especially when you are merging onto the highway or trying to make a turn quickly from a slow roll. It's kinda important in daily driving.
11-03-2019, 09:15 PM
#240
yes it is apple to orange comparison, but there is 16 year production difference between 2003 Accord that shifts smoothly and it is 5 speed auto, and I am supposed to just live with 2 seconds lag now somehow because the car is heavier and has different engine/transmission? I thought technology and engineering should improve and not lag behind, your logic is flawed its like saying that windows 10 can be slower comparing to DOS because it is not the same thing, ridiculous. 2 second lag after gas pedal push is unacceptable period.