JD power Survey and Acura response
 

Oh, good, so now we get some insight to this chart that everyone loves to post. The actual article is here: https://www.autonews.com/sales/genes...lity-scorecard

It explains that "the survey, conducted from February through May, asks 233 questions across eight vehicle categories. While infotainment and connectivity continue to dog automakers, J.D. Power said longtime problems — notably paint imperfections, brake and suspension noise, engines that won't start and check-engine light glitches — were noteworthy in the latest survey." I took this survey. How many people here did? I'm going to say that not a large percentage did because it is so lengthy. By the end of it, you don't actually care what you're answering. But it's interesting that "paint imperfections" and "brake noise" were on here. My car had paint imperfections. On the driver side mirror, there are a cluster of white dots. I don't know what they are, but I'm just guessing they're defects in the clear coat. I don't know. Also, as I mentioned in another thread, the barrels of my tires are all scratched up. I could have dinged Acura for this, but it never passed my mind to. I presume some people might. Also, I get the typical initial brake squealing in the morning. I say "typical" because it actually is typical and known to occur normally due to the composition of new brake materials. But my old car didn't have this problem because it was old. I actually got concerned about this and looked it up online. But again, if I hadn't, I probably would have considered it a defect.

Then, the article quotes Dave Sargent from JD Power as saying "the Korean brands have become very adept at understanding exactly what consumers want in their vehicles and delivering just that, and nothing else in terms of extras that distract from those things." In other words, their cars are more basic. That makes a lot more sense because, as I said, it's funny how all of the higher-end manufacturers are at the bottom of the list. So, yeah, I bet if you buy lower-end cars that are stripped down, you probably will have fewer problems. Or you may not have things that you even interpret to be problems, like if someone was old and couldn't figure out how to use the infotainment unit, not just in the Acura but any car. There are some elderly people who struggle with technology and I can see them being overwhelmed by some modern cars. I mean, I don't even use a lot of the features of the Acura myself.

Look at the results. People here were proclaiming Kia a very solid manufacturer, and it might be. But the best Kias were what? The Kia Rio in "best small car." The Kia Forte in "best compact car." The Kia Sedona in "best minivan." The Kia Sportage in "best small SUV." Anyone here want to claim they would buy those? I haven't even heard of some of those. And those are the best cars in America? LMAO. This is why people need to actually read the details before they start posting garbage "facts." The best compact SUV in America? The Chevrolet Equinox. If you want to say that Acura is a premium compact SUV, then the best there is the BMW X4. The only others ranked in that category? The Lincoln MKC and the Mercedes-Benz GLC. Right, those are the three best premium compact SUVs in America.

I'm going to relink back to this post every time someone slaps this chart down from now on.

I find Acura’s response problematic. The issues we are reporting on this site about the telematics are not about us not understanding how to use the touchpad; virtually all of us are technically proficient. The telematics system is buggy. It freezes, it beeps, it points one way on the HUD and another way on the screen.

These problems have nothing to do with user inexperience.


I would rather have seen them admit to technical glitches, and roll out fixes. Blaming users is low rent.

You don't know what the complaints were about Acura or anyone else. You're assuming that they're infotainment related and they might well be. But that's simply an assumption. As the article points out, while infortainment issues were a problem across all manufacturers, the standouts were things like paint imperfections. This survey is worthless without details and probably still worthless even with details.

BTW, let me put it this way to you, if what I'm saying bothers you: people are all screeching about a survey that a few thousand people took over the period of one month. And those few thousand people didn't all buy every car to answer the survey. So, probably, every class is based on the responses of maybe a few hundred people. So a few hundred people in America in February decided "the best cars in America." And we don't even know the breakdown of their responses to comment. And they came up with some of the least known and liked cars. Like, if I had money, I would have bought the Volvo X60, fully loaded. Guess what? That's not on this list. Guess why? I bet 2 people who answered the survey had one. Nobody who buys an X60 sits around answering 200 questions about it. They're off driving it.

Right between Chrysler and Mini....that is what every car manufacturer wants to be. Acura knows that the infotainment system is full of problems that are hardware and software related....just fix it.

OK, I'm now at the point where I'm glad nobody read or thought about the survey or article because now all of you guys will buy Kia Rios and I can laugh at you from my RDX.

I agree with a lot of what you say. The base RDX does have a lot of features that other base models don’t have, so there is more to “ break”. Also, my daughter has a 2018 Equinox. She had had zero issues, granted, but I’ve driven it on several occasions. It’s noisy, and not at all fun to drive. I know I’ve experienced a few of the RDX glitches others have reported, but I’d still take my RDX Advance any day over an Equinox. Although she does get remote start for free, both on fob and app.

That's exactly what I mean, thanks. It's a question of what does this survey mean? It doesn't mean anything at all to me, personally, because if I had you test drive the "class leading, JD Power award winning" car and then put it up against the actual best car in the class, it would be a joke.

I'm not saying people are "wrong" when they complain on this forum. If I said that someone experiencing "limp mode" was whining or being silly, I would be stupid. I got it. But for the rest of everyone, it just seems like there's a very unreasonable expectation of Acura. This is an around-$50,000 car. It gives you a very stylish exterior, it gives you comfortable leather seats, it gives you freaking thigh bolsters, it gives you one of the best sound systems, it gives you multiple drive modes, it gives you a HUD, it gives you decent cargo space, it's fun to drive, it handles excellently. And then then people get it and are trying to compare it to a $70,000 car. Maybe that's Acura's fault for making this car that good. Every time I get into this car, I'm amazed at what I get. I have a full 360 camera, parking sensors, ACC, a panoramic sun roof? For what I paid for this? Are you kidding? And people are like "but where's Android Auto??" Where's Android Auto? Who cares? I mean, if you're angry at Acura for not giving you Android Auto, I don't know what to say. Then get a different car is all I can respond. It's unbelievable.

People keep acting like the RDX is a pile of garbage like "I can't wait to get rid of this thing." I see that when people buy houses, too. It's like they buy a fantastic house in a nice neighborhood and got the price down to where it was a steal and then they're angry that the walls have to be repainted. I'm like "you actually don't deserve this house. I'm actually mad that you got this house. If I had the power to remove this house from you, I would. I would give it to someone who had a little more appreciation for what they had. But I can't do that, so continue to hate your house and I will at least take some small satisfaction that you hate your awesome house." That's where I am right now with most Acura complaints.

For whatever reason I have never received any survey from JD Power....ever. I own the bottom rated brand, Land Rover, and it is been one of the most reliable cars I have ever had. The biggest piece of junk I have owned...a Dodge Intrepid. I consider anything from Dodge/Jeep/Chrysler/Fiat to be the low bar of auto manufacturing. And my RDX? At 9 months and 2 days, it has been back to the dealer exactly zero times except for accessory installs.The only 'issue' I have seen is the infotainment screen went wack on day, but that's it. Time will tell, but...my paint appears perfect, the brakes have never squealed, nothing is breaking, falling off, misaligned...nothing. We completely enjoy it. Perfect in design...no. None are and certainly would change some things. It's sometimes hard to understand how the same car can deliver such a different experience to people.

I think, barring something like limp mode, the majority of the problem lies with the user. Some of that is human nature. For example, if you bought a car and all you heard were people raving about it, you would feel very good about it. But if you heard people and all they did was b***h and whine about how bad it was, you would probably start finding minor faults also. I had already owned my RDX for months before I came here, so my opinion was already independently formed. I also find it fascinating when people don't own an RDX and yet they very passionately have opinions about how bad it is. And then they're like "...that's why I don't have an RDX!" Oh, OK, so ...then you just hang around an RDX forum to be a jack hole and try to ruin other peoples' experiences with it? Pretty much.

Blaming the user is exactly why the issues haven't been properly addressed yet. If one believes that everything is just ducky then there is no reason to fix anything.

I'm sad to say that my TSX wagon may well be my last Acura.

From the link: The problems we have encountered with the system are not due to a “learning curve”. That is the response from Acura, and that is what I have stated my problem is. We here all know the glitches and failures we have encountered, and it is not because we failed to learn how to prevent the USB music from screeching at us mid song, or failed to learn which directions, left on the HUD or right on the main screen are the correct directions.

The first step to fixing a problem is to recognize that you have one, and what it is. Blaming us is not the answer.

Countless videos of the infotainment system glitching or not turning off and they call it a new user experience with a learning curve lol. I guess that's one way to put it haha

I have no problem with you disagreeing with the Acura response statement. Although, btw, their statement is what you would and should expect because the JD Power survey is so irrelevant and useless. Then someone asked them to explain the irrelevant and useless survey for a recorded statement. The wrong way to handle it would be to take the survey seriously and then commit brand suicide by saying "OMG, I can't believe we make such sh*tty cars!! Is Kia hiring??"

Seems like Honda has already accepted they are having quality issues a few years ago.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20.../#.XQ_xGpNKjow
Honda CEO out: Why the automaker shook up its leadership | Fortune

That's weird, the Fortune article says that the firing occurred because Honda "has become known for reliable, unexciting models that lack distinctiveness." Sounds like a Kia.

This article points out the Civic was blatantly cheapened by management...sounds like airing out dirty laundry.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...-a7934531.html

Actually, that article cites the airbag issue, which wasn't due to Honda. You're basically blatantly lying in order to try to make a false point.

Scroll down...they discuss the design of the older civic being rejected by management and being told to shrink the car due to increased costs.

Scroll down more ...they also note that the Civic was named the 2016 North American Car of the Year by car journalists.

In case you have trouble reading and say I'm lying lolll
Civic engineer Horikoshi had finished a first design setting down the basic engineering points by February 2008 and a more detailed design by April. When rising gasoline, steel and other prices pushed up manufacturing costs by between $1,200 and $1,400 per vehicle, Horikoshi’s team refined their design to improve the car’s fuel economy. In early July 2008 they sought management approval for their plan at a meeting in Torrance, California, Honda’s US sales headquarters.

Global car head Ito said he would review the design overnight, Horikoshi recalls. The next morning, Ito came back and told the team to make the car smaller and cheaper to produce, and complete the redesign by the end of that month.

“With one blow of a cost chopping knife, Ito basically told us to take our design back” to the first plan. “It’s just unheard of. It was unprecedented,” Horikoshi says.

To meet Ito’s specifications, Mr Horikoshi used cheaper materials and made the car smaller, cutting its length by 45mm and its width by 25mm. He also reduced the wheelbase, the distance between the front and rear axle, by 30mm.

What does that have to do with the point that you claimed I was lying about?

"The redesigned model that replaced the 2012 Civic was named the 2016 North American Car of the Year by car journalists."

They sound terrible. BTW, the only metric that was problematic? That's right: their ranking on JD Power surveys. LMAO, you can't make this up.

This is the classic reply...if you don't own one then you can not have an opinion about one. I have owned nothing but Acura since 1988. I did not buy the TLX b/c of the shitty shifting from the ZF9. I caught all sorts of crap here by people who said you don't own one. I test drove that car and hating the ZF9 and that is WHY I did not buy one. Now the RDX. By all accounts the RDX is a great effort by Acura, but like the TLX, Acura failed to acknowledge early adopters who had to deal with the Acura claim that it was performing as designed....then they issued a bunch of updates to "fix" something that was performing as designed. The infotainment problems do not lie with the user. Maybe yours is working fine but the salesman could not even getting it working without crashing on my test drivessssssss.

I would agree that it is an excellent vehicle, but Acura knows the infotainment has problems....so just fix it.

You clearly have never driven the 9th generation Civic (especially the 2012 version). It was completely and utter garbage. It was getting shat on by pretty much every automotive journal. That was what the article was about.

https://www.autonews.com/article/201...-to-redo-civic

Actually, you're making my point. This is an excellent vehicle that has some problems for some people. Right?

So that being the case, why do certain people keep running in here and repeatedly posting a JD Power survey chart that has nothing to do with that statement? And making multiple threads about it? And claiming that Acura is worse than Kia? And then any questioning of that survey and what it actually means is said to be "claiming that the RDX has never had any problems and any complaints are unfounded"?

The fact is that certain people on here are trying to use the survey to claim that Acuras are poor quality. They're also not even courageous enough to say it out loud. Whenever I ask them what the point of the chart is, it's just "oh, I'm just posting the chart so that people can know." Oh, OK, but what does the chart mean? "No, it means nothing, it's just information." OK, but what does it mean? "No no, look, you're trying to look too far into this." But then as soon as I say "OK, well, then it's clearly meaningless," someone else will come on and say "oh, so you think that our opinions mean nothing?" That's hilarious. If you love this chart, then tell me what it means. If you don't care about the chart, then don't worry about it.

I have some experience making “official responses”. Acura’s official response was limited to maybe some people don’t get the new UI.

Acura knows, or should by now know, that the system is buggy. Blaming the users without acknowledging Acura’s end of the problem is low rent.


I happen to be an iPhone user. But a year ago Acura said Android Auto is on the way. Where is it? Did they know it would be more than a year before they could deliver on their promise? If they knew, why did they imply it was just around the corner? If they did not know, why not?

I have to treat this infotainment system like it was a Microsoft OS from 1990. And it still sometimes goes out on me. Fortunately, I have not seen a BSOD, but I have had to do the three finger reboot more than once.

No offense, but if you're not using it, why do you care so much? I'm an Android user and I personally don't care about it, but I do know people who did. What I would say if I was being honest is that Acura is definitely giving people the run around on Android Auto and I probably would say not to ever expect it to be put on the RDX. But I also would say that if people are being honest that wasn't their "make or break" factor for the RDX. If it was then a) I guess Acura owes them an apology and b) their priorities are also way off. You seem determined to "prove" to me something about the infotainment system because you think I'm claiming it's perfect. If you've read my posts, I've said repeatedly that I'm not a fan of the True Touch interface. But I'm also not going to use the infotainment system to make a broad and sweeping statement on the Acura. If it's crashing repeatedly on someone and they're dissatisfied, I can understand how that upsets them about the car. However, I don't know that it's a problem that most people are experiencing. So again, I don't know what the point is here. I've read your posts and you seem generally satisfied with the RDX. So, again, if you are an RDX owner who is generally satisfied with the car but have some issues with it, that's not what the posters of the JD Power chart are trying to say.

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:tongue:

These Acura infotainment woes go back decades, and generations of Acura product. It speaks to poor prioritization and cost management, IMO. They never seem to get it right.

But the old systems were slow, cumbersome, and fugly ( sea of buttons, as one review put it ); they didn't actually crash or flake out, that I can remember.

And back in the day, my AM/FM/Cassette sounded like crap, and every once in a while it ate a tape. But I never had to reboot the thing. Not once.

I agree with you on most points, but have you owned enough "luxury" cars to understand why people are unsatisfied?

I have owned several Lexus's, Infiniti's, and currently own a Benz. I can tell you that as my first Acura, while I love the driving experience and features of the RDX, that this car has more problems within the first month I can notice that wasn't present on any of the luxury vehicles I've owned. Within the first month of those other luxury vehicles, I have had NO problems at all whatsoever. I did not have to take the car back to the dealership. My 2007 Lexus ES350 and 2007 Infiniti G35x were the first year of its redesign.

With this Acura, within the first month of ownership, I have already had a couple of infortainment freezes, which leave a sour taste in my mouth. Even though my Infiniti G37x, which I traded in for this car, was sometimes slow to respond when I input a command, at least it never completely froze where I had to shut down the car and restart to get the system working again. I also now have the brake squeal in my vehicle that's constant regardless whether it was warmed up or not. When I emailed my dealer about the problem, they just sent a reply saying that "Acura is aware of the problem, and they're working on a fix."

I really do like the RDX. In fact I do LOVE the car, even with its faults. I'm willing to deal with them. It has way more features than any of the other vehicles I own. However, the infotainment system definitely seems half-baked, and the braking system does seem to require some sort of fix. I can understand why buyers are frustrated, especially if they're spending $40k-50k on a vehicle. Some people prioritize different things than others. Do you know how embarrassing it is to drive around and then having a loud brake squeal in a near new vehicle?

Totally understand what you're saying. But my issue was with the JD Power survey. Some people are reading that and saying "well, my complaints are in line with that survey, so I have no problem with that survey." OK, that's fine. But then that survey has equal validity with other manufacturers like Land Rover or MB, right? My problem was people were posting it and - as I said in the other thread about this survey - they would say "pay no attention to anyone else but Acura. That's very suspicious to me. Why can't I make any conclusions about Volvos based on the survey, but I can about Acuras? Why can I make conclusions about the Kia but not about Land Rover? It's just "look at how terrible Acura is! It's so low!" Oh, but BMW is als -- "THIS ISN'T ABOUT BMW! BMWs are great!" Oh, so the survey doesn't work for BMW? But it does for Acura? That's my point. It's a silly and meaningless survey. You don't know how many people took it for Acura, you don't know what their answers were, you don't know what they were for other car manufacturers.

Here's another way to put it. People are posting this survey and saying "wow, look, this shows that Acura is in trouble. They really need to step up their game." And then people were even saying "yeah, look at Honda, too. They're really falling. Honda and Acura are losing it." But then if you say "OK, so isn't Volvo also in trouble? Aren't they also making shoddy products? And BMW? And Land Rover?" suddenly everyone says "no, that's not what the survey means, you don't get it." See what I mean? You can't have it both ways. Either the survey speaks to failing quality for EVERYONE that is below the average, or people are just using it selectively for a personal agenda. That's my point.

I think it's better to compare 2018 to 2019 studies.
2018: https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...lity-study-iqs
2019: https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...lity-study-iqs

Acura: 99 --> 110
Lexus: 84 --> 90
Infiniti: 92 --> 101
BMW: 87 --> 102
Audi: 105 --> 106
Volvo: 122 --> 114
Land Rover: 160 --> 123

I think BMW dropped the most compared to other brands. Volvo and Land Rover are the only ones in the list above that actually improved from last year.

The difference is that people expect the likes of Volvo, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc. to have more problems than Japanese brands. And when these problems do occur, when you bring the car in for warranty work you get a much better experience. With Acura, you're don't expect things to go wrong, but clearly it's happening more than expected according to surveys. To make matters worse, when you do bring the car in, you get a second-rate dealership experience where their first thought is "what did the customer do wrong?" rather than "what can we do to make things right?". Hell, my local dealership doesn't even offer free loaners, and they also require you to return the car full. I have never had that happen to me at Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, or Audi dealership. But I suppose that's the price we pay with "value luxury"; something's gotta give, right?

Yeah, but they improved to being the worst, according to the survey.

I've never heard that people expect Volvo or BMW or Audi to have more problems. Mercedes I've heard, but that's usually after the warranty expires, not initially. But even you did expect that, it doesn't make sense. Say what you want, but those are some of the most well-respected manufacturers in the industry. People think quite highly of all of those cars. You know what cars aren't thought highly of? Kias and Chevrolets. LOL

Acura is saying they need to step up their game and do better. "Our associates across sales, R&D and manufacturing are committed to continuing to advance the IQS performance of Acura products. We fully expect the scores of all our products to greatly improve moving forward."

Apparently Acura thinks they need to do better on this pointless survey lol

You must not have been around for very long if it's a surprise that European cars tend to have more problems than Japanese cars ;).

Or more precisely, European cars tend to be extraordinarily expensive to maintain/repair after warranty expiration. Which is why a solid majority of "buyers" lease those brands.

I kinda lost faith after my mom's Audi 5000, that she clung to forever. That thing was a veritable gold mine for the local service department. And it had gold-tone paint, so they could see it coming!

OK, then the people claiming Honda is low quality and has lots of problems must be wrong. See, you guys can't have it both ways. When I support Honda or Acura, it's "no, look at this JD POWER SURVEY!!! It shows you the truth!" And then when I support BMW or Volvo, suddenly it's "ha ha, silly fool, everyone knows Japanese cars are better." And then when I say that BMW must then be bad, it's "woah, who said that?" That's why this thread keeps going around and around in circles. Everyone keeps deciding when they want to cite the survey or not based on whatever conclusion they decided on prior to the survey. That's a logical fallacy.

The only thing this thread proves is that JD Power has you guys all suckered. It's a statistically poor survey that is completely meaningless. And yet all they have to do is issue a press release and someone writes an article about it and suddenly you guys are off the races over it. And now that I've said that, everyone will claim that, "no, in fact, I don't pay attention to the survey." Oh, so you don't pay attention to the survey, but you will defend it to the death? Which is it? People are literally just arguing to argue. And the reality is if I asked you real world if you wanted a Kia Rio or a Honda Civic, you'd take the Honda Civic.