NBP04TL4ME

So is the RX and the ES

sktn77a

OP: Bear in mind that the BMW, Merc and Porsche are much more expensive vehicles than the Acura ($10,000 - $25,000 more in typical dealer-ordered format).

pickettt

I wholeheartedly agree that German luxury cars are more fun to drive and more comfortable to sit in. I wanted one all my life. Once I'd earned enough to buy a dozen of them, I just couldn't do it. I just don't understand the expenditure when there are more reliable choices out there. I can afford to continually maintain and repair a German car. I can also afford to burn exotic hardwoods in my fireplace, it doesn't mean I should.

copmagnet82

I think this statement is a stretch; Kia or Hyundai may not be in the same ball park or same game, but just because a car is not German doesn't mean it's inferior. There are things that Germans do better and there are things that Japanese do better. ...just saying

copmagnet82

Lexus ...my wife hates them and I fully support her with that ...although I like parts of the IS.

copmagnet82

not all of them some are more fun, some are more comfortable, and some can do both

agreed 100%

RDX10

This is a straight up, no offense intended post.

I like the new mdx, but I do not think it is worth the price at all. I had a nearly brand new 2016 loaner and it just never felt special at all. I never felt like I was driving around 65k, it felt more like a 40k car.

They surprised me with the soft touch being in a couple I didn't expect, but that infotainment setup was completely awful. I couldn't understand it even after I tried playing with it for an hour. The sound system was rather awful as well. It also felt underpowered, until I played with the paddle shifters and got it to shift down to second, then it was impressive for its' size. Looks are subjective, but it reminds me of the chrysler pacifica. Headlights are not nearly as bright as I thought they should/would be. It handled acceptably, but not great.

Seats were not that good either. They were comfortable, but certainly not anything special...2 way lumbar for 65k and 8 was passenger seat for 65k? No way! No panoramic sunroof was a disappointment and overall felt rather cheap to me. The materail quality is not bad, but the 2016 sorento I sat in yesterday was light years ahead of the mdx in terms of interior styling and even felt nicer. It even had a 14 way driver seat...shame on Acura.

Bottom line is that this is for your wife, let her pick what she likes, but also remember life is too short to live with less than what you would want. I hear good things about this latest gen cayenne, they made it much much more reliable, I know on the touareg forums (very related to cayenne) that the 2011+ models are nearly bullet proof save for a small steering wheel shake issue. Speakijg of the touareg, you owe it to yourself to to look at the new 2015 ones, seriously a bargain for what you get and has FAR superior awd system, interior quality and overall solidity vs the mdx. The biggest thing on your list that stuck out to me was that you said you needed at least 5000 pounds tow capacity, the mdx tops out at 5000....while the touareg and cayenne can do 7700, the x5 is 7000-7400, and the ml is I beleive 6000-6600.

One last thing to note, the Germans obviously cost a few k more than the mdx, so in terms of quality and features etc, I am being a bit hard on the mdx when you compare price.

RDX10

Too late to edit:

I also wanted to add that I was less than impressed with the new 9 speed. It was a love and hate relationship for me. Sometimes it was silky smooth shifts, while other times it was harsh enough shifts to give me pause. It was a loaner so I didn't pay too much attention to the transmission, but it had a few very harsh shifts that grabbed my attention. It is this experience and the stories on the tlx and chrysler/landrover forums that keep me away from the 9 speed. Not to mention there is 9 speeds!!! Yet the tried and true 6 speed got better highway mpg.

KneeDragr

Understand your point but for me, the car was 45k ( SHAWD-Tech ) and its a good value for its size and fuel economy. Its really only 4-5k more than a similar equipped Explorer or Highlander. Drive one of those and report back. Also, while the EPA rates it lower than the 6spd, every road test I have seen for the 16 states they got 2-3mpg better with the 9spd than the old 6spd. I am getting 23.5mpg combined at 1000mi.

RDX10

I live in canada where the car prices as you probably know are much higher. Our base mdx starts at 55k and goes up to 70k. A highlander can go as high as 58k here, hell a kia sorento goes for 50k. I dd drive the newer generation of explorer and it was awful, but those top out at around 55k. I have not driven the new highlander yet, or even sat in one, but there is no doubt in my mind that he MDX is nicer.

My point is that why are we comparing the mdx to the highlander and explorer? Simply because it easily gets outdone by the gl and q7 and its easily considered a second tier vehicle. More like entry premium. Don't get me wrong, the MDX is a "good" car, but not necessarily a "nice" car. It presents a tremendous value for the cost. But if the op can afford to go with one of the germans, I think he should.

jterp7

i think its half the weird prices acura sets for canadians, thought technically your mdx is nicer than the US version, just not necessarily worth the extra 10-15k over ours. Sure if I had 75-100k I'd be looking at porsche's or range rover sports, but alas I am just an engineer

on a side note, soon to be excellent clearance prices on the audi 3.0tdi's hahahah

RDX10

I don't get it either, it is not just Acura either, it is almost every car. I seen an american commercial for the jeep patriot once and it was a brand new patriot for $9995....they start at 16K here.

Our MDX is nicer (power folding mirrors, around view camera, real wood trim..etc) but NOT 10-15K nicer, not by a long stretch. If I could afford the new cayenne or macan, I wouldn't be here right now lol.

X2...things are not looking good in VW's halls right now.

sktn77a

Must have been a LONG time ago - you don't get Jeeps for $10,000 anymore!

KneeDragr

I think it's a nice car just not a luxury car like the Germans. The MDX is 15k less than those models and it's simply not as nice. What it is, is a nice upgrade over standard SUVs for only a few k more.

RDX10

It was the jeep patriot, and this was a few months ago lol. Granted it must have been the base fwd manual model with manual windows and locks.

Exactly what I am trying to say. It is VERY FAR from a bad car, it is a good car. Just can't compete with the Germans....but look at that price difference. That is why I am telling the Op, if he can afford it, to consider going German.

I don't mean to say that people who can't afford more expensive cars buy the MDX, but that the MDX is more likely to be purchased by someone who can't afford a nicer car. So if the OP can, then they should.

pickettt

I think we all need to define what constitutes a "better" car. There was a time when Mercedes built the best car on all fronts, hands down, being luxury and reliability. That time has passed. Now there is no car with that all around dominance. Now you have to compromise one or the other. I can't respect the "You can get a better car if you can afford it", mindset. My income is deep in the six figures, but Mercedes, BMW, nor Audi can sell me a car until they can make one as reliable as a common Toyota.

RDX10

You are correct and I agree 100%. Just like the term "luxury" is thrown around nowadays. I think it really depends on what you are looking for in a car, and having a larger budget certainly allows for more selection. I don't mean to say that if you have more money, you need to spend it. More that if you want a truly luxurious or "nice" car (think interior quality, performance, handling, features...etc) you will need to pay to play.

copmagnet82

You guys are all bringing up very valid points. I'm sort of glad I take forever to make a decision when I'm about to spend a lot of money.

Few things that come to my mind now:

1. I agree with Mr. pickettt; now days you can't get true luxury and reliability from the same brand. Also, it seems like more and more car makers are suffering in the reliability department as cars are more and more technology packed, which is bound to fail.

2. I find it funny how we call cars that are +$50K "nice" cars or "nice upgrade", when you can get a car, maybe somewhat basic, but nicely equipped, for about $20K. We are all very fortunate people.

3. It basically comes down to "needs" and "wants" with a bit of responsibility, but at the same time, as someone said, do I want to live my life being responsible all the time and "dream" of cars I really want, or suck it up and drive what I want? ...but at the same time, I don't want to throw money away just because I can. ...oh boy, back to square one.

4. Acura could really be a lot more than what it is, but for some reason they are content with where they are as a brand, which I don't get; why wouldn't you want to aim higher and lead as opposed to "follow". At the same time, I don't think they get the respect they deserve, as they really do make good cars, although it seems like whenever they are close to something great, for some reason they always drop the ball in one of the departments.

copmagnet82

I think it actually does compete with the Germans, but in different departments. In this case what pickettt said may actually very much apply; Acura is probably more reliable, but the Germans are probably more prestigious. ...and I said prestigious, not luxurious, on purpose, because now days even Hyundai makes a luxury car.

jterp7

i'll take the first two kthnxbye don't really care about real or fake wood...don't even think it matters until you're at like aston levels

KneeDragr

Thats another reason I got the MDX, its less prestigious. I can afford a much more expensive car, but unfortunately we share our office building with a lot of lower income people who vandalize nicer cars. I can never take my Vette to work because of it. Nobody looks twice at an MDX, they are so common.

mrgold35

I've always felt Acura was a better used vehicle choice in the 20,000-125,000 mile range for me. Especially, if you can time it just right to get the +MMC models. I can't afford to get a new vehicle every 50,000 miles (I have about +310,000 miles combined on all 3 Acura's). A used Acura gives me the best balance of style, luxury, price, tech, features, lower cost of ownership, reliability, performance, etc... My 2011 MDX Adv+Ent was close to $18,000 cheaper than new and only had 29,000 miles when I purchased it in Jan/14. I couldn't of found any vehicle with the same features/performance/size/luxury brand new at that price.

I would lean more towards a short term lease with other luxury brands and purchase an used Acura for long-term enjoyment.

NBP04TL4ME

Well said -

RDX10

What this boils down to, is what do you need and what do you want. Can you live without those wants, or which vehicle satisfies those needs the most? I think the mdx is a good all around car, not exceling in any one dirrction except reliability, which is a hell of a "feature".

I like your use of the word prestigious, because you are right, even hyundai makes a "luxury" car. When I said can't compete, I meant in terms of performance (think supercharged v6/v8 enginee etc) and what I view as "true luxury" a.k.a exotic woods, suede headliners, leather dashes and doors, and that hard to describe "german-ness". In my opinion, the MDX is premium or entry luxury, while the germans and british are true luxury. I even think lexus is a step above Acura and I know acura can do better.

Someone could throw a wrench in my gears and mention that the jeep GC comes with a V8, leather on the dash and wood interior. I guess a view or luxury is really only in the eye of the beholder.

I appreciate real wood in my cars, my touaregs and x5's had it, ironically my RDX has none, not even the fake stuff. I love the around view camera and power folding mirrors though!

copmagnet82

I also think it has a lot to do with the badge. Mercedes-Benz and BMW are truly the only non-exotic luxury brands, and I guess we could throw in Jaguar into the mix. Audi and Porsche became luxury brands, and Acura and Lexus were created to compete with those cars and steal some of the market share. I think up to a price point Lexus and Acura have comparable interiors as far as quality, Infinity is trailing in my opinion. Lexus took it a step up to really compete with the Germans in the higher price point and Acura for some reason just doesn't want to, probably because of the brand perception by the public. Maybe if they came out strong right off the bet like Lexus did, the brand perception would be different, but it is what it is. They are definitely capable of producing comparable cars, but I think they know people won't pay that kind of money for an Acura and I don't think they want to be investing money in developing really expensive cars. Who knows? I think it would help the MDX and entire Acura line if they did some of the nice touches like the leather dashboard, similar to what's in the RLX, or simply being a bit bolder. Having engine choices would be nice, too, but then this drives up development costs, so they would have to price their cars closer to what the Germans are charging, and then they would really have nothing going for them, simply because of the badge . ...oh, and that new infotainment system; the graphics designer for that should be fired twice by now. That's actually one of the things that bothers me the most about the new MDX. I think what's in the Pilot is nicer than what they put in the Acura .

RDX10

I agree very much with everything you have said. I think that 50% of the reason bmw's and mercedes vehicles are nice is because of the badge. That stuff doesn't really work on me, I owned an X5 and really felt it was inferior to my Touaregs, so sold it and bought another touareg. Ultimately, the first gen touaregs had horrible reliability and this time wanted something reliable and therefore bought the RDX. Otherwise could have looked at a used cayenne or x5 or ml.

I feel that they cut corners on the right places at acura, but at the same time, vehicles with equal and lesser value have much nicer interiors. Have you been inside a lexus nx? Or have you seen the 2016 lexus rx interior? Even a jeep grand cherokee comes with a very very nice leather dash and door sills.

Acura does not have the brand cache to command higher prices, but they are going to be asking 150k for the nsx. If they play their cards right, they could use that as a balance board to make nicer touches to their current vehicles.

mrgold35

If you think about other brands like MB, BMW, Porsche, Jag, etc...; they all have a flagship vehicle(s) and they "push down" that image to lesser models. For some, the image of owning a 320i/528i BMW is not that far from a M3/M5.

Once you go for a MDX, there isn't a Halo luxury model after that you can fool yourself into pretending you are driving like X5 M or AMG. It might even help MDX sells if they had a Type S +370 hp MDX with sport hybrid sh-awd, 7DCT, sport+ mode, larger brakes, larger front/rear stabilizer bars, dual exhaust, Krell sound system, and sporty exterior/interior. They have the tech already wasting away on the RLX. They will sell 2X-4X more MDX sport hybrids compared to RLX sh-sh-awd and it would raise the brand name.

RDX10

YES exactly what I mean when I say they are bringing in the NSX as the halo car. This push down will get people to think more of the rest of the lineup, even if nothing is changed. At the same time, this push down effect would allow Acura to ask more but also produce nicer (here I go using that word again) interiors.

I like the way you think, and I actually can see an MDX type s selling very well. People who don't get it would be like, why make a family 7 seater sporty...simply take a look at the gl amg, q7 s-line, ford explorer sport. There absolutely is room in the market for an MDX s-line. Even if they do not want to make an s-line, I think the rlx hybrid drivetrain NEEDS to come to the MDX. Better mpgs and effortless driving, why not!

neoshi

Yeah I'd buy that. I mean I kind of went with the MDX because it was more sporty of a drive experience than the rest without going up to AMG, S-Line, or M. I like "driving small" but having the flexibility of a bigger vehicle. Hopefully Ikeda can bring this back because after the TL-S, Acura has been stuck on the everyday premium vehicle mindset that is the jack of all trades but does nothing well.

jterp7

400hp mdx with 30mpg? Hell yes. Price would have to be in the 60s though if the rlx is any indication. If it included an upgraded interior AND xc90 grade infotainment it could be worth it at that price.

KneeDragr

LOL, I would trade in my 1 month old 16 for a 65k, 400hp, 30mpg upgraded infotainment and interior MDX. We can always dream, but I dont think Acura would ever do that. They sell tons of these things as is.

RDX10

Exactly! If I ever had to buy a 7 seat family vehicle, I would be giving the MDX a very serious look. But for me, I would still crave that power, so this setup would be pretty sweet.

I can understand the price would go up, but the steller fuel economy and handling and speed would balance out the extra cost. They would of course need to install a better infotainment system as well as 14-16 way adjustable seats and the RLX hybrid seems to handle very very well because of the independent motors.

I wouldn't be so sure. I can see them pairing up a smaller forced induction engine with the hybrid technology. Think of all that torque!!