Tony Pac

Lexus is going to release their 7 seater RX - the L version very soon. Lexus RX is already one of the top SUVs in the market and now by covering the 7 seater segment, I am pretty sure it will have an impact on Acura MDX's sales in 2018

MDX and RDX are the bread and butter for Acura and they can't mess up these two vehicles.
Thoughts?

TacoBello

It will come down to price point. I get the feeling the Lexus RX-L will be at the top of the price segment, where as you can get that 3rd row seating in the MDX without spending a fortune. I don't foresee the Lexus taking that much away from the MDX, in terms of sales. I'm sure there are a few that might jump to Lexus, but I doubt it will hurt Acura in the grand scheme of things.

like2ace

I don't think so, in the affordable, comfortable, stylish and reliable segment the MDX is still King! Agreed Acura has to take care of their infotainment raggedness and slow responses but everything else is good. Lexus styling and the Toyota brand in general is puke-worthy IMHO...

Tony Pac

Thanks for your input. I do agree with you and there is one more point - how big is the 3rd row. I was just checking some of the L version pics and it seemed smaller than MDX to me.
Price
Space

These two items will decide for Lexus.

TacoBello

I think the MDX in general is bigger than the RX... same with the RDX vs the NX.

I'd imagine you get a better bang for your buck going with the MDX.

thoiboi

Everything you stated was subjective

andysinnh

My only observation is in regards to the size of the RX vs the MDX. A co-worker has an RX, and I was helping her load some items in the back of her vehicle. Compared to my MDX, the RX is much shorter and smaller in the back (the MDX with the 3rd row folded). That observation tells me that unless they lengthen the wheelbase on the RX, then the rear seating will be even worse than the MDX in terms of legroom and headroom (lower roof height). For a 2-row SUV the RX is decent sized (larger than the RDX I had previously). But put a 3rd row in there? It'll make the MDX seem cavernous....

moose66

I think folks will be driven to one or the other by the styling. I have owned several Lexus vehicles, and am in the process of selling what may be my last one. The styling of the new Lexus models has turned me off. As I mature, my tastes have tended to become a little less out there. To me, the styling of the Lexus brand is out there. Plus the pricing can get very high once you option out a ride like you want it. I like what Acura is doing at the moment. Should be interesting to watch it play out.

jzhu625

iTrader: (2)

The quality of Lexus is way better than Acura, i'm going to jump ship as soon released the RX-L from my 2014 MDX Advance.

2012wagon

I have no idea what the MDX cost.

My dealer says RX350 3 row will be 47-55K give or take for a decent equipped one.

I know two of my family members (who have been burned by Oddy tranny issues and ran away from Hondas), are both trading their RX for the 3 row one the minute it comes out.

mondster

Noticed there isnt much trunk space when the 3rd row seats are up. Might just be the angle

mondster

Just the angle... trunk still has room even with the 3rd row seats up. This will definitely affect mdx sales.

TSX_831

If this means better deals on MDX's, I'm all for it.

hadokenuh

When we bought our 2014 MDX, we crossed the RX off the list because it didn't have the 3rd row seat. We were considering the MDX and QX60 at the time. We went with the MDX because:

1. The QX60 was bad with the CVT and their old 265HP engine. There were brake and transmission recalls. But it was smoother and more comfortable. The interior was also nicer. A very nice cruiser overall.

2. The MDX had some significant improvements on refinement, efficiency over the previous gen. If it was a 2013 MDX, we probably would have crossed it off the list too. We would have gone with some minivan LOL.

If we are to buy again today, there will be 4 choices from what I see:

1. Mazda CX9 Signature
2. RX-L
3. MDX
4. QX60

My wife probably would go with the RX-L or the QX60. It would come down to which brand would negotiate more. The MDX is not a bad car but we've had it for 4 years, we'd just want something else. Plus the dealership experience is not something to brag about. I am jealous of the local Lexus dealership giving out loaners for $50 oil changes with free tolls, free gas (within reasons).

But for me, I might just pick the CX9 to stay away from the "luxury" crowd/repair costs/attention. Having owned Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, BMW during my late 20s until now, I think I am done with "luxury" cars unless it's a 911 or Cayman (even then, I might take a 370z over those). I've realized I will be quite OK with a loaded Accord or Camry or Mazda6 as a commuter.

Tony Pac

Very well said and really enjoyed your post. Honestly, the issue is people don't do their home work and analyze their need to buy a car. Then the blame the brand, the car and etc.

Everyone should read this post

Tony Pac

The Nov'17 sales numbers are out for the US and Canada markets. RDX and MDX sales are strong and I believe due to the MMC (new grill and Hybrid version) MDX will remain a solid competitor to RX-L. RX-L will be smaller and more expensive for sure.

moose66

Agreed. I'd be all in on the RXh-L if it were not for the exterior styling. Acura has made a positive move away from the beak grill and the front ends of the Lexus vehicles are headed in the opposite direction IMO.

GhostTL09

iTrader: (1)

I just went to take a look at this RX-L truck. My goodness that thing is ugly. I wouldn't trade that for all the 3rd row leg room in the world. I used to be a fan of Lexus, but that 's before this whole "Predator" face thing they have happening on the front of their vehicles. I was worried reading the comments that the MDX for it's segment as mentioned was in trouble. I don't feel the same way after reading up and looking at that Lexus. Just my opinion.

2012wagon

Lexus sales are through the roof since predator grille. There might be people who don't like it, but the market has said otherwise...

Nexx

im looking at the sales stats... the GS sales have plummeted since the grill. RX sales have stayed about the same. ES sales fell from the previous year before the predator grill, IS sales are abysmal, LS sales went down.

not sure where you are getting "through the roof" numbers.

Tony Pac

All I can say their sales are just like BMW. I think the difference is around 1,000 units. Pretty impressive for Lexus to compete with Germans.

GhostTL09

iTrader: (1)

https://lexusenthusiast.com/2017/12/...-sales-report/

I think the sales speak to that Predator Grille just like the Beak destroyed the 4th Gen TL

Lexus USA has reported 27,118 total sales for November 2017, a 6.7% decrease over last year — here’s the model-by-model breakdown:

Cars down -22%
Total vehicles down -7%

mellonc

I'm a current RX owner lurking at MDX for my next car. There are many reasons why one of which happens to be that I hate the predator grill. It's very ugly and we know and they know it. The design team chief and his underlings, I'm sure, thought, "well, I've only got 3 year 'til retirement....... I hope this holds over until I get my pension."

and yes, the sales numbers are down. They don't ride as smoothly as before, they make more noise than before, and they don't use high quality hardware like that used to.

MVD4912

Our local Lexus dealer (Lexus of the Lehigh Valley) has 55, 2017 RX350's in stock! I went there to look at an RX350 in October. They had the about the same amount then and were discounting (with Rebate) about $6K off list. The "Cow Catcher" grill is just hard to overlook. I'm buying a 2018 MDX Sport Hybrid when they are available.

like2ace

Couldn't agree more about posts here on the Lexus "Predator" (oooh am I scared) grill, Lexus styling and the Toyota brand in general is puke-worthy IMHO...
When we were looking (not too long ago), the only worthy 3-row SUV for our tastes and needs was the Kia Sorento in SX AWD trim. Never even considered the QX (CVVVT, no thanks), RX350 (see above), CX-9 (under powered, turbo engine), the Pilot or Highlander (Boxes on wheels anyone?). Actually test drove the Highlander and the new VW Tiguan (too small) but the HL drives like a Bus with crap interiors. Wish we had also driven the VW Atlas but it seemed too big for us, again with an under-powered engine. MB, BMW (coming off a 2013 328i - LOVED IT) and Audi were too much $$ for the same features in our MDX. $$ to maintain as well after 4 yrs.

Anyway we were negotiating hard with the local Kia dealer but they couldn't get the color/trim we wanted. The MDX was actually the second-choice after the Kia, since we were holding out for Apple CP. But after driving the MDX and realizing CP is a frivolous reason to NOT buy a car, the MDX checked off all the relevant boxes for us (glad Acura added the Safety features as standard with noise isolation glass for 2017), but YMMV.
What made it nice was that we got a 2017 AWD Base for the same price the Kia dealer was willing to sell the Sorento for. Needless to say there will be many buyers with similar thoughts so the MDX is still King !! Needless to say we will be keeping the X for 10 yrs.

vicbastige

The best thing about Lexus? It doesn't have a ZF transmission. I really can't stand my 2017 MDX. Between the transmission and infotainment system this car has been a big miss for me. My fault, but it won't happen again.

DJ Iceman

I think Lexus' only design problem isn't the grille. In fact, their whole design aesthetic has become (and of course this is subjective) clunky, loud, and cacophonous. Their is no elegance or unity to their designs anymore--it's all about how many sharp edges and incongruent curves they can bend their sheet metal into.

My 2002 GS430 L-Tuned was second-finest car I've ever owned. I would love to have another car with the presence, feature set, and build quality of that one... but not if it's butt-ugly on the outside. I haven't sat in a Lexus or experienced their dealer service in years, but if those qualities are slipping also, then I think it just further opens the door for Acura (and Infiniti) to swoop in and steal a whole bunch of market share. They just need to deliver on the value proposition.

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

I've just driven the gamut of the 3 row xovers and SUV offerings. Lexus RX, Infinity QX60, Mercedes GL450, and the MDX.

As a historically enthusiast driver, I enjoyed the Acura the most. It drives like a TL, not like a minivan. The Lexus drives like a Minivan. The Infinity drives like a minivan. The Merc drives like a truck.

My business would be more swayed by whomever says "Hey, you're shopping a 50K SUV. You've probably got a smartphone and know how to use it. Here's a nice docking station to make your phone hands free and use its features while charging it." Instead of an overpriced and ridiculously hard to use navigation system that you'll never ever touch.... than by a 3rd row alteration. We may use the 3rd row in the vehicle a dozen times or less in the 3-4 years we'll likely have it.

moose66

Well said. I have only driven two of the above mentioned models, the Lexus and the Acura. I used to be all about Lexus. The recent styling direction is terrible and as you mentioned, the ride is not what it used to be. As empty-nesters, my wife and I don't need 3 rows. But the MDX-Hybrid checks all of our boxes. It is a secure, safety oriented vehicle chock full of many of the most desired features. The only thing missing in my opinion is a head up display. The Apple carplay is a step in the right direction. But the nav system has limitations and at some point I can see auto manufacturers partnering better with the Apples/Samsungs/Googles of the world to make the nav a dinosaur and allow for better phone integration and usage. Just my two cents as typical consumer.

financedude

We drove both the MDX and RX350 a few times each. Both are NICE cars. I give the nod to Lexus on interior quality, it is nicer than Acura for sure. However, the MDX drives more like a CAR than the RX350. The rear cargo space seems smaller in the Lexus to me. The Highlander is on the same platform as the RX350 (as of 2016) so they can add the 3rd row without going to a different platform. However, if you want an 2017 RX350 with the same goodies as an MDX, it will be $3000 more, and still does not have 3rd row seating. I see more MDX around town than RX350. I am not a big fan of Lexus styling, other than the F sport models, but I like the new grill and styling of the newer Lexus vehicles. YMMV..............

financedude

I am not sure about "way better", I think Lexus does a better job of covering things that go wrong, etc, at least that's what I have heard from Lexus owners. The Accord keeps winning car of the year awards while Toyota still can't figure out how to make a good looking Camry.............hopefulyy that means Honda will continue improving. I am sure folks on here will laugh, but better watch out for Kia and Hyundai going forward, those cars are NOT what they were. The new Genesis line can easily stand up to Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, etc. Time will tell...........

moose66

I hear you. This has been said before. I jumped on the Genesis sedan when it first came out. It was nice, but not quite Lexus nice. Not sure about now. They stepped it up a little with the Equus and have stepped it up again with the G90/G80. Kia also has stepped up in the car and SUV world. I have seen lots written favorably about the Sorento.

JT4

End of May we turned in our 2015 RX F Sport after close to three years and no complaints. So usually when I am in this situation the no brainer would be to get another RX, but I just couldn't do it. I understand that styling is subjective, but IMO the front end / nose of the 4G RX is hideous.

We liked the interior which I think Lexus did a great job on it, but every time I looked at the nose and 3/4 front profile view it reminds me of a person that had a bad nose job. I don't think the spindle grille looks bad on the GX or LX, since they are bigger IMO they carry it better. Plus this would have been my wife's vehicle and she didn't like the front at all and was very upset that in her opinion "Lexus ruined it"..

Then to top it off, just for the heck of it my salesman whom I've known for 10 years suggested I drive an RX to see how much nicer it was than the 3G RX, which I had no doubt it was.. His feeling was since I was there anyway to test drive a GX I might as well drive the RX. Well that is when I experienced the transmission hesitation issue during my test drive that many owners have been complaining about over on Club Lexus for almost two years. There are almost 700 posts and 47 pages related to it.

For the most part Lexus has been telling owners there's nothing wrong and it's "Operating as Designed". There have been a few software updates that some owners claim worked, while other owners are still miserable. Reading that thread reminds me of the TLX transmission problem threads on this forum.

There is also another two year old, over 1,000 post thread in regards to Excessive Noise and Vibration that owners are experiencing. And guess what, Lexus claims there is nothing wrong and it's "Operating as Designed".

The looks alone were going to keep me away, but after reading about all the issues, and experiencing the hesitation during my test drive, there was no way I was buying what would have been my fourth Lexus..

financedude

Welcome to Acura.

JT4

LOL I've had Acura's since 2004, (2) MDX's and still have the TL in the family and been on here since 2012 but thanks...

financedude

LOL.....I am such a newbee

JT4

All good...

MOkabe

So...I can't compare the three row RX450hL to my MDX Sport Hybrid...which I think would be the fairest comparison...but I can compare my family's 2017 RX450h F-Sport (traded a 2015 RX450h) to my 2017 MDX ADV Sport Hybrid (traded a 2015 MDX ADV/ENT). Both cars are pretty loaded and have their pros and cons...but in the end, I find the Acura to be a little more practical for everyday use.

• Styling is subjective...but I actually really like the way the RX450h F-Sport looks. I'm not a huge fan of the floating roof...but overall I like the look. I did notice that the L-versions of the Lexus look much more like a minivan in the rear. One of my favorite things about the RX from the rear is that they hid the windshield wiper. But...on the L-versions it is in the same place as the MDX now.
• As far as driving goes - If I could stand using a CVT for my personal car, I might seriously consider the RX. But I hate the CVT. I also feel like the Acura has done an amazing job at integrating the ICE with the electric motors. You can feel it kick in significantly more in the RX.
• As far as features go - Lexus wins this one...of course the sticker was a little over $3k more...but I love the LED lights on the exterior door handles, the panoramic sunroof, the heads up display. Yes, the MDX has puddle lights...but it isn't the same. Ha. The other two features I can't get... I also love little touches in the Lexus...like there is no button to turn on the front map lights...you touch them (silly, I know.) The one place where I have consistently noticed the Acura does a better job is the stock sound system. I'm no audiophile, but I like the way the MDX sounds better...even with the Lexus Mark Levinson system. I also like the LKA in the Acura a lot more than the Lexus...I'm sure I need to do a little more research, but I haven't gotten it to work on the Lexus as I feel it should. The automatic braking in the Lexus works well to avoid hitting something...although I haven't tried it in the Acura. Ha!
• As far as practicality goes - for me, Acura wins here. It is mostly just me in the car...I know...big car for one person...but I love my MDX. I had a 2003 Honda Pilot and this is my third MDX (but this is also my family's fourth RX). Anyway, simple things in the Acura make sense...like putting the heated steering wheel button ON the steering wheel. Or having a separate button for the the parking sensors (think of all the drive thru runs with the sensors going crazy...and in the Lexus you have to go through several menus to get to where to turn them on and off!) Or I love the way the remote start works on the Acura (no lights turn on, just the engine is running and getting the car to the right temp)...yes...I know you have to be fairly close to the car. In the Lexus, you use your phone and the Enform app, but the hazard lights flash several times, then the engine starts and the navigation screen lights up...then the part that makes no sense to me is that once I open the door, the entire engine shuts off. I do wish I had Apple Car Play...but buy a 2018 and problem solved!

These are just my observations... We bought the Lexus in May and the Acura in July. Both great cars. You can't go wrong in either...deciding on which is just a lot of personal preference.

getakey

What's the knock on CVT? I've never driven one.

I'll say the 7 speed DCT in my MDX Hybrid is the smoothest I have ever driven

p07r0457

Personally, I've never driven a CVT that I liked.

My wife had a CR-V, previously, and at the time she liked it. I would drive it occasionally and it "works" but it is not fun. She ended up trading up to an Infiniti QX30 -- which has a 7 speed DCT -- and she has seen the light: CVTs suck.

When I was in the market for my MDX I didn't even bother with the QX60 because of the CVT.