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I'm another of the "most responsive car I've ever driven" guys, and this is not only my experience with acceleration, but in chassis dynamics and handling. (At 50 or 60 mph hour on a winding country road, the agility of the car is remarkable. It will track through corners with phenomenal accuracy, and absolutely no understeer "plowing.") I think Shneofjo's experience is probably related to a few things. If "performance" means only acceleration, it does take a bit of experience with the car to learn how to use it, and a short drive in urban areas is unlikely to reveal what the car can do. First, the selection of one of the four drive modes is important, and I don't know what mode Shenofjo's test car was in. With factory settings, the car defaults to Normal mode each time it is started, but this startup mode can be set to Comfort or Sport too. (It will not default to Sport+ on first starting, because in that mode the engine is always running.) In Comfort and Normal mode (especially Comfort), the car accelerates from a stop rather leisurely, with a shallow curve on the accelerator pedal. In other words, in those two modes, it takes more pedal travel than most are accustomed to for abrupt acceleration. But the pedal travel is available and car can accelerate quickly in any mode if the pedal is fully used. (I imagine the accelerator is calibrated this way for smoothness and fuel economy.) With more pedal travel or Sport or Sport+ mode, the accelerator pedal curve is much more responsive, and the instantaneous torque from the electric motors add a responsiveness that no pure-ICE car can equal. From a complete stop in all but Sport+, the engine does take an instant to restart (maybe a quarter second) and there is a single, very slight "bump" feel when it does, but meanwhile the front and two rear motors accelerate the car instantly. One of the important roles of the front motor is to "torque fill" for the engine while it climbs to meet its torque curve at higher RPMs, while the two rear motors are almost always used to initially accelerate the car from a stop. The power flow diagram that can be displayed on the right half of the upper screen is very useful in understanding how the drive train is functioning.
So, I do think one has to acclimate to this unique drive train. And I'd add that the quietness inside the car, and the suppression of engine noise (except in Sport+) also makes the car seem less responsive than it really is. Look at the speedometer--you'll usually be going much faster than you think because of the quietness. In Sport+ mode, the car turns into a complete beast, with sounds to match, as the active noise cancellation is off. With the pedal on the floor in Sport+, the acceleration is very aggressive, and the shifting remarkably quick and precise, right up to redline. I also have a BMW 750 with a 4.8 L V-8, and it feels like a bit of a slug compared to the Hybrid at anything below 100 mph. It's important to remember that the four drive modes in the Hybrid change accelerator pedal responsiveness, steering feel and responsiveness, the transmission shift program and suspension firmness and body roll. In other words, the Hybrid is two or three cars in one, from silky and quiet to screaming beast (the Comfort and Normal setting are pretty close), and one has to decide which car he wants to drive. I think Shenofjo was driving the "wrong car," and I can't imagine a salesperson knowing enough to help him understand that and correct the problem.
after 25,000 miles on my 2017 MDX Sport Hybrid Advanced, overall mileage is around 28, easily get 32+ on a daily 26 miles drive, mostly at 50 mph. If you dirve 80 mph on interstate expect 26 or so mpg. Quiet (probably the most quiet car I have ever owned which includes multiple Audi products), nice driving car, no issues at all so far. Very responsive.
I think the quietness takes away the sporty sensation. Test drove 9sp and hybrid back to back the 9 sp engine sound and the "jerkiness" on acceleration felt more sport. I did play with different modes but when i got to sport+ S trans mode, i was decelling more and back to dealerships. Just heard very loud high engine rev and not a pleasant kind of sporty sound. One other point is this car had been sitting in the lot for a month and i wonder if the battery had enough charge to even fill the torque gaps. I tried to make fast take offs at right turns from stop and it didnt give me any more torque than the 9 speed.
any of you run into that type of situation where the car been sitting and car felt more sluggish on first drive? Trying to justify what i felt. Since i am looking for tech model not advanced, i didnt request a highway drive. Perhaps with a tech hybrid on the lot, ill do another comparison test.
i almost gave up on the hybrid based on my exp from yesterday and went back to thinking maybe i should try the 6speed and compare between the non hybrids
Last edited by shenofjo; 08-03-2018 at 11:02 AM.
Reason: iphone typos
I came out of a 2015 Lexus RX450h into the MDX hybrid. To me, it is like night and day. The Lexus had it's points for build quality and interior trim, but tended to be bland. To me the Acura is less bland, but comparing two, it is Acura in a landslide. Lexus started to go a little freaky with the look of their vehicles. Acura stepped up appearance wise by getting rid of the beak. As for the drive, the Acura seems to want to go down the road quicker and quieter than the RX.
The Sports Hybrid moniker is all in how you look at it. If you are looking for a lightning fast SUV, the MDX is not it. Is it sporty? Somewhat, when compared to the regular MDX, and not really when compared to the ASPEC version.
Everyone is going to have an opinion. We can post entries until we can type no more, and we'd be all over the place. Some agreements, and just as many disagreements. To each their own. If you like it, get one. If you are turned off by the least little perceived imperfection, leave it on the lot and come back to tell us what you ended up buying so we can critique it!
I am pleased thus far with my purchase and have yet to look back.
I think the quietness takes away the sporty sensation. Test drove 9sp and hybrid back to back the 9 sp engine sound and the "jerkiness" on acceleration felt more sport. I did play with different modes but when i got to sport+ S trans mode, i was decelling more and back to dealerships. Just heard very loud high engine rev and not a pleasant kind of sporty sound. One other point is this car had been sitting in the lot for a month and i wonder if the battery had enough charge to even fill the torque gaps. I tried to make fast take offs at right turns from stop and it didnt give me any more torque than the 9 speed.
any of you run into that type of situation where the car been sitting and car felt more sluggish on first drive? Trying to justify what i felt. Since i am looking for tech model not advanced, i didnt request a highway drive. Perhaps with a tech hybrid on the lot, ill do another comparison test.
i almost gave up on the hybrid based on my exp from yesterday and went back to thinking maybe i should try the 6speed and compare between the non hybrids
I do think the smoothness and quietness of the Hybrid (including the virtually undetectable, constant transitions between ICE and electric) and the twin-clutch transmission make the car seem less aggressive, but I like the refinement and seamless performance. I've never used the sport+ and trans "S mode" together, as the car needs no manual shifting, and I think you must have locked the car in a gear with the S-mode and reved the engine suddenly. Did you touch one of the paddle shifters? (I only use the shifters to brake the car on downhill grades, and that's in D mode.) It's actually a very smooth 60-degree V-6 with a very smooth, rather nice sound (that growls with ANC off in Sport+), and it has the advantage of port injection over the 3.5 direct injection. You can read the high-voltage battery charge with the gauge at the extreme left of the cluster, but I have never had a problem with the battery being discharged. If the battery were very low before they parked, maybe a month would be too much, but I don't know. It also charges up quite quickly, though in a traffic jam with battery below one-quarter, the front motor and engine start up and stay on to recharge it, and during those times the engine can feel a bit rough and a little bit noisy in an uncharacteristic and unattractive way. I don't know exactly what's going on with it, but it stops the minute the battery level is up a bit. I've seen that twice in the several months and 3,000 miles I've owned the car. On the torque vectoring, the Hybrid has a huge advantage over the ICE car, which is that the torque vectoring is full time rather than only working when you're on the throttle. With the Hybrid, you can enter a corner and coast through with no throttle, or mash the brakes, and the torque vectoring keeps it perfectly on track. Before I got my car, I test drove it for about an hour, and realized I didn't completely understand the car. I went back to the dealer and they gave me a loaner for the entire afternoon, and about two hours into it, I finally realized its capability. I went back to the dealer and gave them some money (and then waited five months to actually get the car). So I think you should spend more time with it before you make a decisions. I got the Advance because there are gadgets and refinements I like, but in terms of drive train I don't think there's any difference from the Tech. Drive it again and see what you think!
I was almost ready to test drive thr 2015 6sp and pull the trigger if i liked it.. CPO shawd 32k miles think i'd push for 28k cash offer... but ill go back and give the hybrid another longer drive.
lastly, i have been dricing my father's cayenne diesel while he's out of the country and that car is a low end torque monster! 400+lb ft in low rpm. Looking through the comparisons the sport hybrid is supposed to be faster, but both cars. Build their speed differently. Diesel is quick on take off and then flatens out in the high rpms. Hoe would you charaxterize the sport hybrid in its power delivery throughout the RPM range?
I was almost ready to test drive thr 2015 6sp and pull the trigger if i liked it.. CPO shawd 32k miles think i'd push for 28k cash offer... but ill go back and give the hybrid another longer drive.
lastly, i have been dricing my father's cayenne diesel while he's out of the country and that car is a low end torque monster! 400+lb ft in low rpm. Looking through the comparisons the sport hybrid is supposed to be faster, but both cars. Build their speed differently. Diesel is quick on take off and then flatens out in the high rpms. Hoe would you charaxterize the sport hybrid in its power delivery throughout the RPM range?
I've owned several diesels (two Mercedes and a VW Golf), and yes, they have very good low end torque, but they do suddenly go flat at higher RPM and speed--it almost feels like fuel starvation. After a careful break-in of about 1,500 miles, I gradually started driving the Hybrid more aggressively, and on a deserted, straight stretch of highway in Northern California that I know, I ran it out to about 120 mph a few times. With full throttle in Sport+, the initial torque comes on faster than even the turbo diesels because of the electric power. The car keeps pulling strongly right up to red line, with very fast and meticulous shifts from the dual-clutch. Judging by the power flow display, the two rear electric motors do cut out (using an electric clutch) at about 90 mph, because of an 11,000 RPM limit (I think). But the engine is still strong enough. All of this was for curiosity, and I don't normally drive anything like this. I don't know how you drive or what you're planning to do with the car, but for "normal," even aggressive, driving, I've never driven anything that I like as much as the Hybrid. The seamless and refined behavior of the drive train is a delight, and the car is as fast as anything one would want or need for anything but track work. The Acura was the last car I drove before before buying it, because, on the whole, I don't really like Japanese cars, which usually feel more like appliances than cars to me. At the age of 71, I've had dozens of German cars, but never a Japanese one, other than a Subaru Outback, which was sturdy and useful but completely uninteresting. So I drove the BMW X5, the Audi Q7, and the Cayenne S, and felt that they all had shortcomings. The X5 felt heavy and a bit sluggish in both dynamics and acceleration (with the turbo straight-six) and lacked lane-keep assist; the Q7 was very comfortable, but too large, short on chassis dynamics, and a bit sluggish in acceleration, as well as something I wouldn't want in the longterm for reliability issues; the Cayenne S I liked a lot for its dynamics and acceleration, but it was relatively noisy, rough and unrefined, and I was looking for a car to travel in with comfort. Comparably equipped, the Cayenne was also $43,000 more than the Acura, and definitely worth that difference. (The other two cars were 20-25,000 more, comparably equipped.) So, after driving it twice, I thought the Hybrid the best of the bunch all said and done, and I think it's an incredible bargain compared to the competition. While the word hybrid in the name probably attracts a certain kind of buyer, it puts off a lot of others, who imagine a dull-witted, suburban family hauler when they hear the name. The first thing people ask when I mention it's a hybrid, is "what kind of mpg to you get." I then say, it's not an economy hybrid, it's a performance hybrid, and car guys get that immediately, It is really a sleeper performance car in the context of real-world driving. If you want a sleeper track car, look at the Porsche, but not the diesel.
P.S. I'd guess that the Hybrid's engine reaches its torque peak (of about 240 lb ft?) at about 3000 RPM, but this is nearly irrelevant because of the three motors, which, combined, have a truly instantaneous torque peak of something like 280 lb ft. And I have to emphasize again that the integration of the engine with the three motors is so seamless that you feel like you're driving something with a huge, turbo gasoline engine, but even more responsive.
I've owned several diesels (two Mercedes and a VW Golf), and yes, they have very good low end torque, but they do suddenly go flat at higher RPM and speed--it almost feels like fuel starvation. After a careful break-in of about 1,500 miles, I gradually started driving the Hybrid more aggressively, and on a deserted, straight stretch of highway in Northern California that I know, I ran it out to about 120 mph a few times. With full throttle in Sport+, the initial torque comes on faster than even the turbo diesels because of the electric power. The car keeps pulling strongly right up to red line, with very fast and meticulous shifts from the dual-clutch. Judging by the power flow display, the two rear electric motors do cut out (using an electric clutch) at about 90 mph, because of an 11,000 RPM limit (I think). But the engine is still strong enough. All of this was for curiosity, and I don't normally drive anything like this. I don't know how you drive or what you're planning to do with the car, but for "normal," even aggressive, driving, I've never driven anything that I like as much as the Hybrid. The seamless and refined behavior of the drive train is a delight, and the car is as fast as anything one would want or need for anything but track work. The Acura was the last car I drove before before buying it, because, on the whole, I don't really like Japanese cars, which usually feel more like appliances than cars to me. At the age of 71, I've had dozens of German cars, but never a Japanese one, other than a Subaru Outback, which was sturdy and useful but completely uninteresting. So I drove the BMW X5, the Audi Q7, and the Cayenne S, and felt that they all had shortcomings. The X5 felt heavy and a bit sluggish in both dynamics and acceleration (with the turbo straight-six) and lacked lane-keep assist; the Q7 was very comfortable, but too large, short on chassis dynamics, and a bit sluggish in acceleration, as well as something I wouldn't want in the longterm for reliability issues; the Cayenne S I liked a lot for its dynamics and acceleration, but it was relatively noisy, rough and unrefined, and I was looking for a car to travel in with comfort. Comparably equipped, the Cayenne was also $43,000 more than the Acura, and definitely worth that difference. (The other two cars were 20-25,000 more, comparably equipped.) So, after driving it twice, I thought the Hybrid the best of the bunch all said and done, and I think it's an incredible bargain compared to the competition. While the word hybrid in the name probably attracts a certain kind of buyer, it puts off a lot of others, who imagine a dull-witted, suburban family hauler when they hear the name. The first thing people ask when I mention it's a hybrid, is "what kind of mpg to you get." I then say, it's not an economy hybrid, it's a performance hybrid, and car guys get that immediately, It is really a sleeper performance car in the context of real-world driving. If you want a sleeper track car, look at the Porsche, but not the diesel.
P.S. I'd guess that the Hybrid's engine reaches its torque peak (of about 240 lb ft?) at about 3000 RPM, but this is nearly irrelevant because of the three motors, which, combined, have a truly instantaneous torque peak of something like 280 lb ft. And I have to emphasize again that the integration of the engine with the three motors is so seamless that you feel like you're driving something with a huge, turbo gasoline engine, but even more responsive.
You should've test driven Porsche Cayenne E-Hybrid, that thing is a real monster (455hp, 4.7sec to 60). I had a Touareg Hybrid, that thing was a true sleeper and a monster when needed, at 380HP/420ft/tq, with full torque at only 1500 RPM. I can only imagine what Porsche is like.
I am on my 6th MDX since Oct 2000. My new 2018 MDX Adv Hybrid is by far the best. It is really fun to drive every time I go somewhere. I have only tried the Sport + twice, but will use it more as it remines me of my 3 Corvettes I had long ago with power and noise. The best things I like are intown gas mileage of 25 to 26 MPG, the super quietness and not even hearing the gas engine turn on, the auto door locks, the set and steering wheel movement when turning off, not having to put the car in park when turning it off, watching the tachometer go to "0" all the time, and the folding mirrors. I still need to investigate the Apple Car Play more. Also to be different from my other MDXs, I got the San Marino Red with Parchment interior.
My two Scotties like it too!!
I was never a big fan of this latest MDX but when I seen it in red I fell in love. WOW, it looks incredible!
What a perfect write up of what the sport hybrid drives like.
Originally Posted by wallyo
I've owned several diesels (two Mercedes and a VW Golf), and yes, they have very good low end torque, but they do suddenly go flat at higher RPM and speed--it almost feels like fuel starvation. After a careful break-in of about 1,500 miles, I gradually started driving the Hybrid more aggressively, and on a deserted, straight stretch of highway in Northern California that I know, I ran it out to about 120 mph a few times. With full throttle in Sport+, the initial torque comes on faster than even the turbo diesels because of the electric power. The car keeps pulling strongly right up to red line, with very fast and meticulous shifts from the dual-clutch. Judging by the power flow display, the two rear electric motors do cut out (using an electric clutch) at about 90 mph, because of an 11,000 RPM limit (I think). But the engine is still strong enough. All of this was for curiosity, and I don't normally drive anything like this. I don't know how you drive or what you're planning to do with the car, but for "normal," even aggressive, driving, I've never driven anything that I like as much as the Hybrid. The seamless and refined behavior of the drive train is a delight, and the car is as fast as anything one would want or need for anything but track work. The Acura was the last car I drove before before buying it, because, on the whole, I don't really like Japanese cars, which usually feel more like appliances than cars to me. At the age of 71, I've had dozens of German cars, but never a Japanese one, other than a Subaru Outback, which was sturdy and useful but completely uninteresting. So I drove the BMW X5, the Audi Q7, and the Cayenne S, and felt that they all had shortcomings. The X5 felt heavy and a bit sluggish in both dynamics and acceleration (with the turbo straight-six) and lacked lane-keep assist; the Q7 was very comfortable, but too large, short on chassis dynamics, and a bit sluggish in acceleration, as well as something I wouldn't want in the longterm for reliability issues; the Cayenne S I liked a lot for its dynamics and acceleration, but it was relatively noisy, rough and unrefined, and I was looking for a car to travel in with comfort. Comparably equipped, the Cayenne was also $43,000 more than the Acura, and definitely worth that difference. (The other two cars were 20-25,000 more, comparably equipped.) So, after driving it twice, I thought the Hybrid the best of the bunch all said and done, and I think it's an incredible bargain compared to the competition. While the word hybrid in the name probably attracts a certain kind of buyer, it puts off a lot of others, who imagine a dull-witted, suburban family hauler when they hear the name. The first thing people ask when I mention it's a hybrid, is "what kind of mpg to you get." I then say, it's not an economy hybrid, it's a performance hybrid, and car guys get that immediately, It is really a sleeper performance car in the context of real-world driving. If you want a sleeper track car, look at the Porsche, but not the diesel.
P.S. I'd guess that the Hybrid's engine reaches its torque peak (of about 240 lb ft?) at about 3000 RPM, but this is nearly irrelevant because of the three motors, which, combined, have a truly instantaneous torque peak of something like 280 lb ft. And I have to emphasize again that the integration of the engine with the three motors is so seamless that you feel like you're driving something with a huge, turbo gasoline engine, but even more responsive.
I agree - excellent write-up
Only thing I quibble with is that I think the rear motors cut out at 78mph
I thought so too, because I read it somewhere. But on the power flow display, driving in Sport+ mode, it looked like 90 or so. So I'm not sure. Whatever, it's a terrific car to drive, and I don't normally drive at the kind of speeds I was describing. On the highway at 80 or 90, the engine offers plenty of power all by itself. Thanks for the "like."
Im nearly positive that I read they cut out at 84 mph.
Well 84 precisely splits the difference between 78 and 90, so I guess we're all more or less in agreement. Whatever the exact figure, it's high enough that it doesn't really make much difference in everyday American driving, at least for me, and it doesn't diminish the remarkable virtues of the Hybrid.
Well 84 precisely splits the difference between 78 and 90, so I guess we're all more or less in agreement. Whatever the exact figure, it's high enough that it doesn't really make much difference in everyday American driving, at least for me, and it doesn't diminish the remarkable virtues of the Hybrid.
Correct. Someone who owned both the hybrid and non hybrid did say that over 90 the non hybrid is faster and I believe it. The 3.0 liter alone just couldnt keep up. Who goes over 90 in everyday American driving though?
found this in the Car and Driver review, but I do remember reading elsewhere that it was 78. Agree with the above statements. I'm curious if the NSX motors cut out at that speed as well.
There are a couple of drawbacks, however. For all the NSX-derived wizardry, the system in the MDX Sport Hybrid isn’t really meant for high-speed driving. At 84 mph, just short of the rear motors’ 11,000-rpm redline, a one-way clutch decouples them from drive duty. Beyond that speed, the nonhybrid models, with their larger 3.5-liter V-6 and less weight, likely would start pulling away from the hybrid.
found this in the Car and Driver review, but I do remember reading elsewhere that it was 78. Agree with the above statements. I'm curious if the NSX motors cut out at that speed as well.
There are a couple of drawbacks, however. For all the NSX-derived wizardry, the system in the MDX Sport Hybrid isn’t really meant for high-speed driving. At 84 mph, just short of the rear motors’ 11,000-rpm redline, a one-way clutch decouples them from drive duty. Beyond that speed, the nonhybrid models, with their larger 3.5-liter V-6 and less weight, likely would start pulling away from the hybrid.
Well, again, I don't drive like Car & Driver does, and I'm not sure "likely would start pulling away from the hybrid" is much of a defined drawback. I'm in California, and 90 mph could probably lose you your license, even on Route 5. Nevada and Wyoming are another story, but I'd still imagine that the Hybrid does just fine. In my two 120 mph runs, it was still pulling very strongly, and I stopped acceleration there because I was running out of straight road. For 10 years I've owned a BMW with an engine-governed speed limit of 177 mph (according to the owner's manual), and this "impressive" fact has contributed nothing whatsoever to my enjoyment of the car. I'd say the BMW is only a very tiny tick faster than the Hybrid in a 0-60 or 0-70 run, and it's much slower off the line than the Hybrid, up to 30 or 40 mph.
I'd think that the NSX pulls very strongly well beyond 84 mph, but it has a much stronger turbo V-6 than either of the MDXs, something like 500 hp.
I agree with you. I was just quoting what C&D said. I suspect the Hybrid would be much ahead of the non-Hybrid when you got to 84 if it was a drag race, so it would have to catch up before it pulled away.
I agree with you. I was just quoting what C&D said. I suspect the Hybrid would be much ahead of the non-Hybrid when you got to 84 if it was a drag race, so it would have to catch up before it pulled away.
I'm in Calif too
Getakey, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to implicate you, I was responding to the kids at Car & Driver. (The other thing those kids never consider in reviewing a car is actual ownership, including longer-term experience with both driving performance and reliability. This is what I guess happens when you drive a new car every week.) And yes, I'd imagine the Hybrid would be out in front at 84 mph, but the kids were imagining the two cars running side by side at 84 and accelerating from there.
no worries
where are you in CA? I just moved from SF Bay area to east of Sacramento
I'm in Berkeley, in the same house for 37 years. East of Sacramento has some very nice areas, like Auburn, Grass Valley and Placerville. Nice driving roads too!
nice - we were in same house in Belmont for last 20 years, but was in Bay area since '78. For a couple years, my office was in Berkeley on Durant St. Daughter went to Berkeley. Graduated a few years ago
I'm in El Dorado Hills now
After my lackluster exp with the urban street test drive with the hybrid, i went and test drove the f pace 20d diesel and the 30t gas 4 engines. Those cars have great feel and driving dynamics! Diesel torque at 310+ was great on urban streets but assume it would go flat fastbon the freeways. The gas engine was laggy to throttle response unless you are in dynamic mode where it wakes right up. I think ill be leaning towards the diesel 4 unless the freeway exp flops big time as its got 26/33 mpg minus all the complexities of the hybrid system and weight. Yes, these 2 are not exactly same class, but f pace is only 4cubic feet off in trunk apace and ive decided that 3rd row is not absolutely needed.
Lets hope when i test drive the supercharged 3L f pace, i dont get bitten by the speed bug then with 18/23 mpg.
Last edited by shenofjo; 08-15-2018 at 10:07 AM.
Reason: Typo
Think about this:
while the mdx may have the complexity of the hybrid drive system, the Jag has the complexity of the diesel motor and its asscociated emissions system IE EGR; DPF and DEF. You also have those that have a hardon for anything that burns diesel(just ask VW and Chrysler/Dodge/Ram owners...myself included) that want to legislate the oil burners out of existence. The modern diesels have extremely expensive fueling system that can be contaminated and cause heartache for its owner. Take due care in deciding if you want to go the diesel route. Been there...done that...not going there for a passenger car again.
After my lackluster exp with the urban street test drive with the hybrid, i went and test drove the f pace 20d diesel and the 30t gas 4 engines. Those cars have great feel and driving dynamics! Diesel torque at 310+ was great on urban streets but assume it would go flat fastbon the freeways. The gas engine was laggy to throttle response unless you are in dynamic mode where it wakes right up. I think ill be leaning towards the diesel 4 unless the freeway exp flops big time as its got 26/33 mpg minus all the complexities of the hybrid system and weight. Yes, these 2 are not exactly same class, but f pace is only 4cubic feet off in trunk apace and ive decided that 3rd row is not absolutely needed.
Lets hope when i test drive the supercharged 3L f pace, i dont get bitten by the speed bug then with 18/23 mpg.
The F-Pace S and sh-sh-awd MDX are my top two contenders for my replacement of my 08 RDX with +150,000 miles. The F-Pace might win out because of towing and availability compared to the sh-sh-awd MDX. I'm already used to crappy mpgs with my 08 RDX and 11 MDX, so that wasn't as high on the must have list.
Think about this:
while the mdx may have the complexity of the hybrid drive system, the Jag has the complexity of the diesel motor and its asscociated emissions system IE EGR; DPF and DEF. You also have those that have a hardon for anything that burns diesel(just ask VW and Chrysler/Dodge/Ram owners...myself included) that want to legislate the oil burners out of existence. The modern diesels have extremely expensive fueling system that can be contaminated and cause heartache for its owner. Take due care in deciding if you want to go the diesel route. Been there...done that...not going there for a passenger car again.
Also been there, done that with diesel (VW/Audi), and I wouldn't touch it again. Probably because of the low lubricity of American diesel, the VW injection pump imploded and destroyed the entire engine, which was replaced on warranty. Ditto for Jaguar cars in general, though Jaguar seems to have improved a bit on reliability and durability in the past few years, but that's calculated starting from the bottom. (Have a look at this: https://www.osv.ltd.uk/how-reliable-are-jaguar/.) But the Jaguar might be a good three-year lease car if you really like its around-town performance, or if you have lots of money and patience. It's also worth mentioning that the Acura Hybrid comes with a seven-year (or six?) warranty on the drive train, and eight years on the hybrid components. And if you learn how to drive it around town (the throttle curve!), you'd find that electric motors have much more instantaneous torque than any diesel or gasoline engine, turbo or not.
Aside from "Dieselgate" VW makes excellent diesel engines. The problem that some people had was not the engine but the HPFP (high pressure fuel pump) made by Bosch which could fail on our "dry" NA diesel fuel in certain conditions. Simple diesel lubricant (available in every auto store) or a mix of biodiesel would've solved most of those problems. Another thing is a lot of people, (especially new to the diesel engines) don't realize that diesel fuel also works as a coolant for HPFP. To cool it properly it is advisable not to run the tank past 1/4 low, otherwise there is always a risk of overheating already semi dry running HPFP. And yes, unfortunately when it explodes it takes out an entire fueling system and sometimes engine with it. Most of NAs are so used to only operating gas powered vehicle that they don't realize that diesel engines are not exactly the same thing. They require slightly different care and maintenance.
Interesting points on the diesel. Already have a cayenne diesel in the family (my father's) at close to 100k. Definitely will have to look at deisel maintenence. What lubricant you guys use dor the diesel fuel? I also came from low mpg with my e38 740 supercharged v8, and probably wouldnt mind the 340/380hp v6 Sc from jag but that 16 gallon tank makes this a frequent pit stopper. If i go to track or something with this car, or personal car itd be fine but for family hauler and long trips, diesel makes more sense.
Aside from "Dieselgate" VW makes excellent diesel engines. The problem that some people had was not the engine but the HPFP (high pressure fuel pump) made by Bosch which could fail on our "dry" NA diesel fuel in certain conditions. Simple diesel lubricant (available in every auto store) or a mix of biodiesel would've solved most of those problems. Another thing is a lot of people, (especially new to the diesel engines) don't realize that diesel fuel also works as a coolant for HPFP. To cool it properly it is advisable not to run the tank past 1/4 low, otherwise there is always a risk of overheating already semi dry running HPFP. And yes, unfortunately when it explodes it takes out an entire fueling system and sometimes engine with it. Most of NAs are so used to only operating gas powered vehicle that they don't realize that diesel engines are not exactly the same thing. They require slightly different care and maintenance.
This all sounds correct to me. My memory is that the HP pump (which I remembered as the injection pump, which this car does not really have) took out the entire system, including the engine. They could not repair the engine, and replaced it with a new engine that ran very poorly (rougher, noisier and hotter than the original), and they were never able to fix that behavior. Despite a lot of highway driving and a fairly rigorous driving style in town, the system also went very often into an automatic cleaning cycle for the diesel particulate filter that dropped the fuel mileage considerably, and produced so much heat in the engine bay that the hood was almost too hot to touch when the car was shut down. One much wonder about the durability of everything under the hood in such an environment: after shut down, the radiator fan could run for another hour or a bit more. All of this behavior suggested that the car had emission problems, long before Diesel Gate came to light. So I wasn't impressed, and sold the car back to VW with the Diesel Gate settlement. Before all of these issues, I was aware of the lubricity issue, and I looked into using a lubricant in the fuel, and would have happily used it on every fill up, despite its terrible odor. But VW specifically prohibited the use of any fuel additive, so I didn't use it, in fear of warranty repercussions. On the quarter-tank issue, I am a retired pilot, and am acutely aware of fuel reserves, and have never taken a car down to a quarter of a tank unless I had no options. (I'm also avoiding condensation in the tank.) So all in all, I've not been impressed with my VW diesel experience. My impression from driving them, and from talking with BMW mechanics is that BMW makes a much better diesel engine. Oh, and yes, I am familiar with "diesel engines," as that's essentially what a turbine aircraft engine is, but much more finicky.
This all sounds correct to me. My memory is that the HP pump (which I remembered as the injection pump, which this car does not really have) took out the entire system, including the engine. They could not repair the engine, and replaced it with a new engine that ran very poorly (rougher, noisier and hotter than the original), and they were never able to fix that behavior. Despite a lot of highway driving and a fairly rigorous driving style in town, the system also went very often into an automatic cleaning cycle for the diesel particulate filter that dropped the fuel mileage considerably, and produced so much heat in the engine bay that the hood was almost too hot to touch when the car was shut down. One much wonder about the durability of everything under the hood in such an environment: after shut down, the radiator fan could run for another hour or a bit more. All of this behavior suggested that the car had emission problems, long before Diesel Gate came to light. So I wasn't impressed, and sold the car back to VW with the Diesel Gate settlement. Before all of these issues, I was aware of the lubricity issue, and I looked into using a lubricant in the fuel, and would have happily used it on every fill up, despite its terrible odor. But VW specifically prohibited the use of any fuel additive, so I didn't use it, in fear of warranty repercussions. On the quarter-tank issue, I am a retired pilot, and am acutely aware of fuel reserves, and have never taken a car down to a quarter of a tank unless I had no options. (I'm also avoiding condensation in the tank.) So all in all, I've not been impressed with my VW diesel experience. My impression from driving them, and from talking with BMW mechanics is that BMW makes a much better diesel engine. Oh, and yes, I am familiar with "diesel engines," as that's essentially what a turbine aircraft engine is, but much more finicky.
Sorry about your poor experience with VW diesels. You must've had some bad luck or an idiot dealer who couldn't do their job right (not surprising, had my own bad experience). The 3.0TD's were tanks. These things ran like there was no tomorrow, they were just a pure pleasure to drive wile getting an excellent MPG. Even though I never owned a Touareg TDI, my cousin still does and he refused to sell it back to VW. Unfortunately VW decided not to bring anymore diesels to US, instead they promised to bring 12 or 13 new electric models by 2020 (we'll see). Oh, BMW did not/could not have a better engine at that time, they were always a generation behind VW. Mercedes is the only other worthy competitor that can exceed VW diesels, BMW diesel, I don't think so, IMO.
I wrote about this in the RLX forum, but did not get much feedback. Thinking that some of you watch the power diagram more and want to know if you see same behavior.
When I'm driving below 60 or so, I see the expected torque vectoring on the rear wheels. That is power to outside wheel and braking on inside. I don't always see both at same time, but I typically see one or the other or both, i.e., sometimes it is only power to outside or only braking on inside depending on speed and conditions. However, above 60 on highway I see a much different behavior. I don't think it is directly speed related but rather what the sensors are reading at speeds above 60 or so. If I'm going above 60ish and on a sweeping type curve, I often see power to the inside rear wheel and sometimes braking on the outside. I tried accelerating in the curve, but behavior typically stays the same. I rarely see the torque vectoring above 60 that is happening below 60. Is there a tendency for a front wheel drive car to over-steer at higher speeds and that the rear wheels are compensating for that?
I wrote about this in the RLX forum, but did not get much feedback. Thinking that some of you watch the power diagram more and want to know if you see same behavior.
When I'm driving below 60 or so, I see the expected torque vectoring on the rear wheels. That is power to outside wheel and braking on inside. I don't always see both at same time, but I typically see one or the other or both, i.e., sometimes it is only power to outside or only braking on inside depending on speed and conditions. However, above 60 on highway I see a much different behavior. I don't think it is directly speed related but rather what the sensors are reading at speeds above 60 or so. If I'm going above 60ish and on a sweeping type curve, I often see power to the inside rear wheel and sometimes braking on the outside. I tried accelerating in the curve, but behavior typically stays the same. I rarely see the torque vectoring above 60 that is happening below 60. Is there a tendency for a front wheel drive car to over-steer at higher speeds and that the rear wheels are compensating for that?
That's an interesting observation that I've never made, and I'm going to watch for it on the power flow display. Mostly I see both rear wheels in regen mode at higher speeds, when I back off the throttle. I'm not so sure that "reverse" torque vectoring would correct for oversteer, but I have to think about that too. Certainly braking the outside wheel alone is used to correct over-steer in stability systems, and that makes sense. Anyone else have thoughts on this?
I've owned several diesels (two Mercedes and a VW Golf), and yes, they have very good low end torque, but they do suddenly go flat at higher RPM and speed--it almost feels like fuel starvation. After a careful break-in of about 1,500 miles, I gradually started driving the Hybrid more aggressively, and on a deserted, straight stretch of highway in Northern California that I know, I ran it out to about 120 mph a few times. With full throttle in Sport+, the initial torque comes on faster than even the turbo diesels because of the electric power. The car keeps pulling strongly right up to red line, with very fast and meticulous shifts from the dual-clutch. Judging by the power flow display, the two rear electric motors do cut out (using an electric clutch) at about 90 mph, because of an 11,000 RPM limit (I think). But the engine is still strong enough. All of this was for curiosity, and I don't normally drive anything like this. I don't know how you drive or what you're planning to do with the car, but for "normal," even aggressive, driving, I've never driven anything that I like as much as the Hybrid. The seamless and refined behavior of the drive train is a delight, and the car is as fast as anything one would want or need for anything but track work. The Acura was the last car I drove before before buying it, because, on the whole, I don't really like Japanese cars, which usually feel more like appliances than cars to me. At the age of 71, I've had dozens of German cars, but never a Japanese one, other than a Subaru Outback, which was sturdy and useful but completely uninteresting. So I drove the BMW X5, the Audi Q7, and the Cayenne S, and felt that they all had shortcomings. The X5 felt heavy and a bit sluggish in both dynamics and acceleration (with the turbo straight-six) and lacked lane-keep assist; the Q7 was very comfortable, but too large, short on chassis dynamics, and a bit sluggish in acceleration, as well as something I wouldn't want in the longterm for reliability issues; the Cayenne S I liked a lot for its dynamics and acceleration, but it was relatively noisy, rough and unrefined, and I was looking for a car to travel in with comfort. Comparably equipped, the Cayenne was also $43,000 more than the Acura, and definitely worth that difference. (The other two cars were 20-25,000 more, comparably equipped.) So, after driving it twice, I thought the Hybrid the best of the bunch all said and done, and I think it's an incredible bargain compared to the competition. While the word hybrid in the name probably attracts a certain kind of buyer, it puts off a lot of others, who imagine a dull-witted, suburban family hauler when they hear the name. The first thing people ask when I mention it's a hybrid, is "what kind of mpg to you get." I then say, it's not an economy hybrid, it's a performance hybrid, and car guys get that immediately, It is really a sleeper performance car in the context of real-world driving. If you want a sleeper track car, look at the Porsche, but not the diesel.
P.S. I'd guess that the Hybrid's engine reaches its torque peak (of about 240 lb ft?) at about 3000 RPM, but this is nearly irrelevant because of the three motors, which, combined, have a truly instantaneous torque peak of something like 280 lb ft. And I have to emphasize again that the integration of the engine with the three motors is so seamless that you feel like you're driving something with a huge, turbo gasoline engine, but even more responsive.
Alot of my friends who get into my car expect a top notch interior and always ask about the MPG After I explain why I chose this car and put it into sport + the rest is history. My buddy who owns a 2018 M3 was impressed by the handing and acceleration. 2017-2018 Sleeper awards goes to the Mdx Hybrid.
Alot of my friends who get into my car expect a top notch interior and always ask about the MPG After I explain why I chose this car and put it into sport + the rest is history. My buddy who owns a 2018 M3 was impressed by the handing and acceleration. 2017-2018 Sleeper awards goes to the Mdx Hybrid.
I agree, I think the car is a real sleeper. I've had friends drive it, and they are very surprised, particularly by the agile handling. And, yes, Sport+ is the key to revealing all of it, though mostly I drive in Normal for ride comfort and noise level (expecially with passengers), and then go to Sport+ for a dash of fun. On the interior, I like it a lot because it's not pretentious and doesn't have all the little chrome pieces and bling that others think is the mark of a "luxury" car, like current Mercedes. Many of my friends have the same reaction. With the new RDX, Acura has gone for the chrome bits, and I'm afraid the new MDX will head in that direction too.
. . . . . . . With the new RDX, Acura has gone for the chrome bits, and I'm afraid the new MDX will head in that direction too.
Agreed. Every time I see a new RDX I think blinged up Nissan Murano with hints of the Lexus NX/RX (only talking exterior). I sure hope they don't mess up the MDX.
08-03-2018, 10:22 AM
