6 speed vs 9 speed
05-12-2018, 10:39 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
6 speed vs 9 speed
Hey guys, I was in the RL, TL forums before my wife set me straight and pointed me at the MDX direction. not bad option since a lot of the reviews from 2007-2015 have been positive from journalists. now that I am looking specifically in the 3rd gen with better room and less weight, I have come to the question of WTF is going on with the 9 speed!? mpg is less with 9 speed than 6 speed? and i hear it drives funky in putting you in higher gears always? thats what the reviews say on youtube and mags. any feedback from actual users that would say otherwise? it just makes sense to get the better tech with 9 speed, but the numbers and the experiences dont add up.
05-12-2018, 11:02 PM
#2
Big up ya self, BO!
Join Date: Jul 2004
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I own a 2015 MDX 6 speed. I’ve had a 2017 dealer loaner while getting maintenance on mine, and I definitely prefer the 6 speed. It feels sportier and gives the MDX a better driving experience than the 9 speed. I feel that Acura rushed to compete with the Joneses and added the 9 speed. If I were in the market for a new MDX, I’d probably go for the MDX hybrid, which has a dual clutch 7 speed.
05-13-2018, 07:44 AM
#3
I agree that Acura rushed the ZF9HP48-equipped MDX into production — likely to remain “competitive” with other luxury SUVs that already had 8 forward gears.
Mechanically, the transmission seems to be solid. ZF had many years to perfect the mechanicals.
The issues have been a defective ATF warmer that allows engine coolant and ATF to mix (affected mostly 2016 MY and a small number of 2017) and the software that manages the shift patterns. Although ZF builds the mechanicals, Acura wrote the software. I’m not sure if they rolled their own or if they modified something from ZF, but either way the software is unique to Acura. The 2016 models had usability complaints such as laggy downshifts when trying to pass on the highways. Journalists really lambasted Acura for these issues, and the MDX suffered, in reviews.
I own a 2017 and I like the transmission. The ATF warmer is supposedly fixed, and the software has gone through a few revisions and I like it, for the most part. I do get a harsh 1-2 shift when cold, but that only affects me on the first drive of the day and goes away within a couple miles. I also can reproduce a “disconnected” feeling if I put the transmission in 5th gear then accelerate up a hill, then after cresting the hill I use the paddle shifters to downshift into 4th. That shift operation involves a dog clutch and you can feel the transmission “disconnect” for a second even though you may want engine braking. It’s a quirk, for sure. For the most part it’s easily avoided... if I know I want engine braking, I’ll get down to 4th gear before I let gravity take over. Simple.
i think the later 2017 and the 2018 MDX are much improved over 2016. I think most of the complaints have been resolved.
As for smoothness, once warm the 9 speed shifts like butter. It’s impressively smooth.
As for mpg, it is my experience that the 9 speed does better than the older models. I average 23.5 mpg in normal driving (mostly city with a little highway) and 27 mpg on mostly highway driving.
that said, my wife’s vehicle has a DCT and I have fallen in love with the concept. If I were to buy another MDX I’d strongly consider the sport hybrid... I would just have to decide if I could give up the ability to tow? Probably.
Mechanically, the transmission seems to be solid. ZF had many years to perfect the mechanicals.
The issues have been a defective ATF warmer that allows engine coolant and ATF to mix (affected mostly 2016 MY and a small number of 2017) and the software that manages the shift patterns. Although ZF builds the mechanicals, Acura wrote the software. I’m not sure if they rolled their own or if they modified something from ZF, but either way the software is unique to Acura. The 2016 models had usability complaints such as laggy downshifts when trying to pass on the highways. Journalists really lambasted Acura for these issues, and the MDX suffered, in reviews.
I own a 2017 and I like the transmission. The ATF warmer is supposedly fixed, and the software has gone through a few revisions and I like it, for the most part. I do get a harsh 1-2 shift when cold, but that only affects me on the first drive of the day and goes away within a couple miles. I also can reproduce a “disconnected” feeling if I put the transmission in 5th gear then accelerate up a hill, then after cresting the hill I use the paddle shifters to downshift into 4th. That shift operation involves a dog clutch and you can feel the transmission “disconnect” for a second even though you may want engine braking. It’s a quirk, for sure. For the most part it’s easily avoided... if I know I want engine braking, I’ll get down to 4th gear before I let gravity take over. Simple.
i think the later 2017 and the 2018 MDX are much improved over 2016. I think most of the complaints have been resolved.
As for smoothness, once warm the 9 speed shifts like butter. It’s impressively smooth.
As for mpg, it is my experience that the 9 speed does better than the older models. I average 23.5 mpg in normal driving (mostly city with a little highway) and 27 mpg on mostly highway driving.
that said, my wife’s vehicle has a DCT and I have fallen in love with the concept. If I were to buy another MDX I’d strongly consider the sport hybrid... I would just have to decide if I could give up the ability to tow? Probably.
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Curious3GTL (06-15-2018),
mrgold35 (05-14-2018)
05-14-2018, 09:59 AM
#4
I had a 14’ tech and was always complaining to service
that it didnt feel right. I have had my 17’ advanced for almost 2 years. I like the 9 speed much better. For
me its bot even close. 17’ much better tranny.
that it didnt feel right. I have had my 17’ advanced for almost 2 years. I like the 9 speed much better. For
me its bot even close. 17’ much better tranny.
05-14-2018, 10:13 AM
#5
Burning Brakes
Most people will get used to the shift pattern and adjust themselves to their daily driving. The question is 6 speed vs 9 speed, which one is more reliable?
The 6 speed was introduced in 2012 so it's still relatively new. So far there hasn't been any catastrophic or design failure yet.
The 9 speed was introduced in 2015 for Acura (I believe some brands had adopted it before that). Although most complains are somewhat software related, some owners reported new transmissions were replaced to fix what seems to be software related.
I personally think 6 speed is perfect for auto trans but eventually I'll have to buy whatever available.
The 6 speed was introduced in 2012 so it's still relatively new. So far there hasn't been any catastrophic or design failure yet.
The 9 speed was introduced in 2015 for Acura (I believe some brands had adopted it before that). Although most complains are somewhat software related, some owners reported new transmissions were replaced to fix what seems to be software related.
I personally think 6 speed is perfect for auto trans but eventually I'll have to buy whatever available.
05-14-2018, 11:45 AM
#7
mrgold35
Most people will get used to the shift pattern and adjust themselves to their daily driving. The question is 6 speed vs 9 speed, which one is more reliable?
The 6 speed was introduced in 2012 so it's still relatively new. So far there hasn't been any catastrophic or design failure yet.
The 9 speed was introduced in 2015 for Acura (I believe some brands had adopted it before that). Although most complains are somewhat software related, some owners reported new transmissions were replaced to fix what seems to be software related.
I personally think 6 speed is perfect for auto trans but eventually I'll have to buy whatever available.
The 6 speed was introduced in 2012 so it's still relatively new. So far there hasn't been any catastrophic or design failure yet.
The 9 speed was introduced in 2015 for Acura (I believe some brands had adopted it before that). Although most complains are somewhat software related, some owners reported new transmissions were replaced to fix what seems to be software related.
I personally think 6 speed is perfect for auto trans but eventually I'll have to buy whatever available.
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05-14-2018, 12:31 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
I'm actually pretty happy with the 9-speed in my July 2017-production MDX Tech. I"ve had 3 previous vehicles with the current gen 6-speed - a '12 TL SHAWD, '13 MDX SHAWD, and a '15 RDX AWD. The TL works great. The MDX was OK, although the gas mileage stunk big time. The RDX shifted probably the worst of all 3 examples, and even a recent '18 Loaner RDX showed the same shifting - seemed to not really understand what it wanted to do from time to time. Anyway, the 9-speed in my '17 has been very good, and aside from the crisper shifts when first warming up, it's been great to drive. I have heard early 9-speeds weren't as good/smooth as others have pointed out - buy my example is a thumbs-up.
andy
andy
05-14-2018, 04:23 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
The 6AT was used for the 2nd Gen MDX starting in 2010 for all models (base, tech, & Adv). I don't know when it was used for other models before 2010 like the RL or TL or Honda vehicles? The only update was a firmware reflash around 2011 that adjusted the shifting characteristics. Pretty solid transmission over the entire run compared to 5AT and 9AT early issues.
05-15-2018, 07:35 AM
#12
mrgold35
You should be good to go with the 14-15 6AT, put the 16 MDX 9AT on the back burner, and any +17 MDX 9AT is also a good bet. Most folks would also take the 14 MDX off the table since it is a 1st model year and it might have some other quirks unique to it. It also sounds like the sport hybrid MDX with the 7DCT is the top model to get with the best driving characteristics if you don't have a need to tow anything.
05-18-2018, 10:57 AM
#14
Advanced
Hey guys, I was in the RL, TL forums before my wife set me straight and pointed me at the MDX direction. not bad option since a lot of the reviews from 2007-2015 have been positive from journalists. now that I am looking specifically in the 3rd gen with better room and less weight, I have come to the question of WTF is going on with the 9 speed!? mpg is less with 9 speed than 6 speed? and i hear it drives funky in putting you in higher gears always? thats what the reviews say on youtube and mags. any feedback from actual users that would say otherwise? it just makes sense to get the better tech with 9 speed, but the numbers and the experiences dont add up.
Compared to this, our current 2017 MDX is consistently giving around 20 city and 26+ hwy under the same driving conditions. Very impressed with the mpg and how quiet the cabin is. You will be very unhappy with the 6-speed generation (atleast we were) considering all the improvements both inside and outside on the 2017+ MY. Barring any untoward instances, the 2017 will be our long-term SUV.
05-19-2018, 10:35 PM
#16
Instructor
Thread Starter
I was using the epa estimated mpgs. So real world mpg is definitely better for the 9 speed then? After looking into the sport hybrid, that mofht be my next choice actually
05-24-2018, 02:31 PM
#17
Same... while I never had 14-16, the transmission feels great and I have no issues on my 17. I came from a rx r450 so did not notice anything weird
The following users liked this post:
ITdude (09-09-2018)
07-06-2018, 04:53 PM
#19
Instructor
Thread Starter
those who drive the 9 speed, do you guys use the manual paddle shifters and go into the high rpms? I saw the youtube review on how there are 2 shifts out of 9 that are laggy due to the inherent design of the 9 speed with multiple clutch packs or something like that so say 4-5 you get extra delay and another one in the higher gears. I am now more focused on looking at the 6 speed due to lower cost and maybe down the road, trade up to the cheaper priced sport hybrids.
07-06-2018, 10:13 PM
#20
those who drive the 9 speed, do you guys use the manual paddle shifters and go into the high rpms? I saw the youtube review on how there are 2 shifts out of 9 that are laggy due to the inherent design of the 9 speed with multiple clutch packs or something like that so say 4-5 you get extra delay and another one in the higher gears. I am now more focused on looking at the 6 speed due to lower cost and maybe down the road, trade up to the cheaper priced sport hybrids.
If I downshift to accelerate, I find the shifts to be quick. They're not as quick as the DCT in my Infiniti... But they're quick for a normal automatic transmission.
If I downshift to provide engine compression braking on a downhill grade, then I find shifts from most gears are predictable, and quick. The two exceptions are shifts from 5>4 and 8>7. These shift operations involve dog clutches, so the TCM will request engine RPM/torque increase/decrease as-necessary to synchronize the speed of the dog clutches. This can result in a brief period of acceleration before the dog clutch engages and the lower gear is selected. This has caught some people off guard, and they have complained. I have found two workarounds that make this a non-issue for me.
- If I know I'm going to use engine compression braking -- such as on a hill that I encounter, daily, while leaving my neighborhood -- I'll drop myself down to gear 4 BEFORE I reach the crest of the hill and need the braking effect. That way, I get the desired effect as soon as I let off the throttle, and if I need additional braking effect I can downshift to >3>2>1 and the shifts are immediate.
- If I find myself needing to downshift and was unable to preemptively put myself into the proper range of gears (1-4, 5-7, 8-9) then I will press the brake while tapping the paddle. This prevents the "disconnected" feeling and momentary acceleration while the shift gets sorted out.
08-02-2018, 06:35 PM
#21
Instructor
Thread Starter
Finally got some time myself to test drive the MDX SH AWD 9 speed and the sport hybrid. i have to say, i was expecting more for the sport hybrid and some of the hybrid characteristics do throw me off. First of all, the hybrid feels extremely smooth, too smooth to be considered performance oriented like the "sport" suggests. the electric motors filling in the power gap in the engine curve did not seem to be overwhelmingly more than the non hybrid MDX. the sport+ mode made the engine stay in high rev ranges but did not sound good over all. the engine noise/foot pedal/actual car acceleration dont seem to match overall as the engine may turn on for charging, car moves faster than engine noise suggests, not not mind blowingly fast. again i think i was expecting more of the electric motors and maybe not mentally prepared for the quirkiness of driving a hybrid. in comparison, the non hybrid was more linear in response the the fast pedal and the engine noise. yes, the transmission is slightly more jerky, but it felt more natural. All of this was in urban road driving, no highway driving, but I am leaning more towards the regular 9 speed now. My wife doesnt like the shield look anyways, so its down to the 9 speed or the sport hybrid for us. RDX looked real nice in person but probably not enough space for my pack rat wife if we have a second child or go on long trips.
08-04-2018, 03:29 AM
#22
OP, if you didn't like the Hybrid then see if you'll like the ASpec version.
09-01-2018, 12:43 PM
#24
Instructor
Thread Starter
after some back and forth, especially looking at prices, my wife says ok to the shield and 2014-15 6 speed is back on the table. i test drove the 9 speed and felt the engine was adequate and transmission slightly jerky which i dont mind for sporty feel. since having the baby at 4 months old, its hard to find time to test drive. I've reread the posts here and realized some of the 6 speed comparisons are from the previous gen. looking for more 2014-2015 6 speed owner inputs as its rated to have same MPG as the 9 speed, and I'd like to know how the 6speed owners like using manual shifting. with 9 speeds, i think its just too many to keep track and enjoy the paddle experience. even in my father's 8speed cayenne, i never used the paddle due to the multiple cogs to keep track of. another point which is SHAWD specific, how many of you actually can feel the SHAWD kicking in and at what speeds do you feel it most? reason i ask is i been looking at 30k price range and mazda cx9 is in range, and i know its AWD is not very advanced, but have heard great things on its handling and engine response even at 4cylinder 2.5 turbo.
09-01-2018, 01:50 PM
#25
with 9 speeds, i think its just too many to keep track and enjoy the paddle experience. even in my father's 8speed cayenne, i never used the paddle due to the multiple cogs to keep track of. another point which is SHAWD specific, how many of you actually can feel the SHAWD kicking in and at what speeds do you feel it most? reason i ask is i been looking at 30k price range and mazda cx9 is in range, and i know its AWD is not very advanced, but have heard great things on its handling and engine response even at 4cylinder 2.5 turbo.
In most vehicles, AWD is just sitting dormant until there is wheel slippage, and then it helps you out. Unless you were test driving in poor conditions, you're unlikely to "feel" the difference, aside from the extra mass. However, SH-AWD makes a HUGE difference. I cannot understand how big of a deal SH-AWD is. You can easily test the SH-AWD on a quick test drive in even the driest conditions. Simply take a corner relatively quickly, but give it no throttle input. You'll feel the vehicle understeer and otherwise behave as you'd expect a two ton brick to handle -- like the front wheels are desperately trying to pull you through the corner. Now take the same corner, same speed, but give it a little throttle. Doesn't have to be much... Just enough to put some torque through the drivetrain. You can feel the vehicle actually turn and push through the corner. Then you realize you can make SH-AWD work for you and take the corner much faster and have a lot more fun, too. If you get a chance, take a test drive and put the MID onto the SH-AWD power flow screen. go take some turns -- even at slow speeds -- and give it light throttle through the turn. You'll actually see the MDX shuffle power to the outside rear wheel to help get the backend where it needs to be and push you through the turn. Honestly, SH-AWD is the only way to buy a MDX. I don't understand why anyone would get the FWD version. Also, once you understand the SH-AWD you'll come to appreciate it, and you won't want a vehicle that doesn't have an advanced system like it.
Do you need the third row? If you want a less expensive SUV and are okay with 5 seats, then check out the new RDX. The turbo 4 is nice, and you get the luxury, features, and SH-AWD.
09-01-2018, 01:58 PM
#26
Instructor
Thread Starter
wife wants 7 seater and we want to be in the $30k range. if not for the 7 seater, i might be looking at the jaguar f pace 3L supercharged v6. it has the looks, the engine power, the handles, but lacking in mpg, range, and future reliability. back to 7 seaters, thanks for the SH AWD input.
09-04-2018, 06:19 PM
#27
Tell tale way to seeing if you need SHAWD: do you spin the wheels getting going from a stop?
Lol but seriously... if you want to get the SHAWD, make sure you're the kind of person comfortable with putting some power in during turns (even a little), because the folks who just brake during sweeping turns won't get benefits at all. You'll end up dragging that extra powertrain weight along without being able to utilize the extra power distribution to the corners.
Lol but seriously... if you want to get the SHAWD, make sure you're the kind of person comfortable with putting some power in during turns (even a little), because the folks who just brake during sweeping turns won't get benefits at all. You'll end up dragging that extra powertrain weight along without being able to utilize the extra power distribution to the corners.
09-04-2018, 09:12 PM
#28
Tell tale way to seeing if you need SHAWD: do you spin the wheels getting going from a stop?
Lol but seriously... if you want to get the SHAWD, make sure you're the kind of person comfortable with putting some power in during turns (even a little), because the folks who just brake during sweeping turns won't get benefits at all. You'll end up dragging that extra powertrain weight along without being able to utilize the extra power distribution to the corners.
Lol but seriously... if you want to get the SHAWD, make sure you're the kind of person comfortable with putting some power in during turns (even a little), because the folks who just brake during sweeping turns won't get benefits at all. You'll end up dragging that extra powertrain weight along without being able to utilize the extra power distribution to the corners.
So if looking at the added safety offered by having power distribution to all 4 wheels and for additional traction because you live in a snowy climate, having SH-AWD would be more beneficial than FWD only, even if driving in a straight line down a snow covered highway, correct?
Or are you saying outside of applying throttle in corners that the SH-AWD is purely operating as 100% FWD?
09-04-2018, 09:30 PM
#29
While I understand the primary situation where you realize the true benefits of torque vectoring like SH-AWD in the MDX is when applying throttle in corners, that doesn't mean that power is only being distributed to all 4 wheels only in that situation. There are 2 aspects to SH-AWD as I see it, first there is the increased sport performance/cornering and this is where mechanical torque vectoring comes into play, however there is also the safety benefits of having power distributed to all 4 wheels vs FWD only.
So if looking at the added safety offered by having power distribution to all 4 wheels and for additional traction because you live in a snowy climate, having SH-AWD would be more beneficial than FWD only, even if driving in a straight line down a snow covered highway, correct?
Or are you saying outside of applying throttle in corners that the SH-AWD is purely operating as 100% FWD?
So if looking at the added safety offered by having power distribution to all 4 wheels and for additional traction because you live in a snowy climate, having SH-AWD would be more beneficial than FWD only, even if driving in a straight line down a snow covered highway, correct?
Or are you saying outside of applying throttle in corners that the SH-AWD is purely operating as 100% FWD?
In neoshi's scenario of a driver riding their brakes in a corner, there would be no torque being applied by the engine, and the vehicle would be operating as a FWD vehicle carrying the extra weight of the (currently unused) rear differential and driveshafts.
This is one benefit of the Sport Hybrid, as the electric motors can be used to provide the effect of torque vectoring, even when throttle is not being applied. Of course, the Sport Hybrid has other drawbacks... Everything has pros/cons.
09-04-2018, 10:31 PM
#30
SH-AWD can only provide torque vectoring when there is torque being applied to the system. This means you must be applying throttle.
In neoshi's scenario of a driver riding their brakes in a corner, there would be no torque being applied by the engine, and the vehicle would be operating as a FWD vehicle carrying the extra weight of the (currently unused) rear differential and driveshafts.
This is one benefit of the Sport Hybrid, as the electric motors can be used to provide the effect of torque vectoring, even when throttle is not being applied. Of course, the Sport Hybrid has other drawbacks... Everything has pros/cons.
In neoshi's scenario of a driver riding their brakes in a corner, there would be no torque being applied by the engine, and the vehicle would be operating as a FWD vehicle carrying the extra weight of the (currently unused) rear differential and driveshafts.
This is one benefit of the Sport Hybrid, as the electric motors can be used to provide the effect of torque vectoring, even when throttle is not being applied. Of course, the Sport Hybrid has other drawbacks... Everything has pros/cons.
https://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/18/acura-cold-weather-testing-in-minnesota/
There is a difference between AWD (think front vs rear) power distribution and torque vectoring (think power distribution between left and right)
Also it mentions that there are several factors that go into SH-AWD deciding how to distribute power, not just throttle: "Unlike traditional transfer cases or full-time four-wheel drive systems, SH-AWD takes in yaw rate, steering angle, throttle input, brake pressure, longitudinal Gs and a host of other information from a variety of sensors and then distributes power exactly where it's needed."
Another article states "SH-AWD greatly enhances stability on snow and ice, thanks to real-time interaction with Acura's Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) system."
So if the concern is having the most stability and traction control on snow/ice or water covered roads, whether in a straight line or in corners, even if you are not actively accelerating when a wheel loses traction and a vehicle starts to skid or enter into a spin, SH-AWD should be more effective at keeping the vehicle in control and on the road correct? Or are you stating that in this regard the FWD version will handle just as well with no benefit of having AWD except when actively applying throttle?
Last edited by bobby2478; 09-04-2018 at 10:34 PM.
09-05-2018, 07:02 AM
#31
The reason I ask the question is based on neoshi's post and what you posted above it isn't clear whether you are stating there are no safety or stability benefits of having SH-AWD outside of applying throttle. If you are stating that even on snow covered roads unless you are actively applying throttle (actively accelerating) you are not getting AWD then that is contrary to what is in the following article where Acura and Honda built a test facility in northern MN to test snow and ice handling:
https://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/18/...-in-minnesota/
There is a difference between AWD (think front vs rear) power distribution and torque vectoring (think power distribution between left and right)
Also it mentions that there are several factors that go into SH-AWD deciding how to distribute power, not just throttle: "Unlike traditional transfer cases or full-time four-wheel drive systems, SH-AWD takes in yaw rate, steering angle, throttle input, brake pressure, longitudinal Gs and a host of other information from a variety of sensors and then distributes power exactly where it's needed."
Another article states "SH-AWD greatly enhances stability on snow and ice, thanks to real-time interaction with Acura's Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) system."
So if the concern is having the most stability and traction control on snow/ice or water covered roads, whether in a straight line or in corners, even if you are not actively accelerating when a wheel loses traction and a vehicle starts to skid or enter into a spin, SH-AWD should be more effective at keeping the vehicle in control and on the road correct? Or are you stating that in this regard the FWD version will handle just as well with no benefit of having AWD except when actively applying throttle?
https://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/18/...-in-minnesota/
There is a difference between AWD (think front vs rear) power distribution and torque vectoring (think power distribution between left and right)
Also it mentions that there are several factors that go into SH-AWD deciding how to distribute power, not just throttle: "Unlike traditional transfer cases or full-time four-wheel drive systems, SH-AWD takes in yaw rate, steering angle, throttle input, brake pressure, longitudinal Gs and a host of other information from a variety of sensors and then distributes power exactly where it's needed."
Another article states "SH-AWD greatly enhances stability on snow and ice, thanks to real-time interaction with Acura's Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) system."
So if the concern is having the most stability and traction control on snow/ice or water covered roads, whether in a straight line or in corners, even if you are not actively accelerating when a wheel loses traction and a vehicle starts to skid or enter into a spin, SH-AWD should be more effective at keeping the vehicle in control and on the road correct? Or are you stating that in this regard the FWD version will handle just as well with no benefit of having AWD except when actively applying throttle?
However, the article was quite long, and I didn't read all of it. If you think the article contradicts these statements, please provide a brief excerpt demonstrating where the article says otherwise.
09-05-2018, 07:25 AM
#32
Burning Brakes
All of the above comments about SH-AWD w/torque vectoring in corners is spot-on - as it really helps cornering a vehicle as big as the MDX on things like sweeping highway ramps - you have to experience it to really understand how much it helps. (And with a car like my wife's '12 TL SH-AWD, it is simply shocking how far you can push that car on these corners :-) ). But for me the difference is snow/winter traction. I've had most every type of AWD system in one vehicle or another here in NH over the past 30 years, and I can say the behavior of the SH-AWD for traction is unparalleled - even when compared to the highly regarded Subaru AWD systems that are popular in this part of the country.
I've told the story in earlier posts how I had a '13 MDX w/SH-AWD and loved it, and then moved to a '15 RDX AWD to overcome some of the things I didn't like in the 2nd gen MDX. The biggest "miss" when I moved to the 2nd gen RDX was the change in AWD. The loss of stability and traction was extremely noticeable (even with 4 snow tires, which I run on all my cars). So when my lease was up I moved back to the '17 MDX, which fortunately had gone to the 3rd gen redesign and also the mid-model refresh. The secure and confidence feelings returned during the winter, and even normal handling in the summer months makes the MDX handle like a much more nimble vehicle than the RDX ever did.
andy
I've told the story in earlier posts how I had a '13 MDX w/SH-AWD and loved it, and then moved to a '15 RDX AWD to overcome some of the things I didn't like in the 2nd gen MDX. The biggest "miss" when I moved to the 2nd gen RDX was the change in AWD. The loss of stability and traction was extremely noticeable (even with 4 snow tires, which I run on all my cars). So when my lease was up I moved back to the '17 MDX, which fortunately had gone to the 3rd gen redesign and also the mid-model refresh. The secure and confidence feelings returned during the winter, and even normal handling in the summer months makes the MDX handle like a much more nimble vehicle than the RDX ever did.
andy
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9SpeedTran (09-05-2018)
09-05-2018, 09:32 AM
#33
My question again is simply this: in winter driving conditions, if not hammering the accelerator when you start to skid or enter a spin, are you stating that there's no difference in stability or traction between FWD and SH-AWD?
It seems that you are saying if you are not getting on the throttle and accelerating when you begin to lose control that there is no benefit to having AWD instead of FWD, and that unless actively applying throttle there is no power being delivered to the rear wheels making it FWD only.
SH-AWD in the MDX always delivers at least 10% power to the rear wheels, even high speed cruising in a straight line. Therefore there is a benefit to having SH-AWD as opposed to purely FWD especially when driving on snowy roads.
It seems that you are saying if you are not getting on the throttle and accelerating when you begin to lose control that there is no benefit to having AWD instead of FWD, and that unless actively applying throttle there is no power being delivered to the rear wheels making it FWD only.
SH-AWD in the MDX always delivers at least 10% power to the rear wheels, even high speed cruising in a straight line. Therefore there is a benefit to having SH-AWD as opposed to purely FWD especially when driving on snowy roads.
09-05-2018, 09:38 AM
#34
SH-AWD can only provide torque vectoring when there is torque being applied to the system. This means you must be applying throttle.
In neoshi's scenario of a driver riding their brakes in a corner, there would be no torque being applied by the engine, and the vehicle would be operating as a FWD vehicle carrying the extra weight of the (currently unused) rear differential and driveshafts.
This is one benefit of the Sport Hybrid, as the electric motors can be used to provide the effect of torque vectoring, even when throttle is not being applied. Of course, the Sport Hybrid has other drawbacks... Everything has pros/cons.
In neoshi's scenario of a driver riding their brakes in a corner, there would be no torque being applied by the engine, and the vehicle would be operating as a FWD vehicle carrying the extra weight of the (currently unused) rear differential and driveshafts.
This is one benefit of the Sport Hybrid, as the electric motors can be used to provide the effect of torque vectoring, even when throttle is not being applied. Of course, the Sport Hybrid has other drawbacks... Everything has pros/cons.
All of the above comments about SH-AWD w/torque vectoring in corners is spot-on - as it really helps cornering a vehicle as big as the MDX on things like sweeping highway ramps - you have to experience it to really understand how much it helps. (And with a car like my wife's '12 TL SH-AWD, it is simply shocking how far you can push that car on these corners :-) ). But for me the difference is snow/winter traction. I've had most every type of AWD system in one vehicle or another here in NH over the past 30 years, and I can say the behavior of the SH-AWD for traction is unparalleled - even when compared to the highly regarded Subaru AWD systems that are popular in this part of the country.
I've told the story in earlier posts how I had a '13 MDX w/SH-AWD and loved it, and then moved to a '15 RDX AWD to overcome some of the things I didn't like in the 2nd gen MDX. The biggest "miss" when I moved to the 2nd gen RDX was the change in AWD. The loss of stability and traction was extremely noticeable (even with 4 snow tires, which I run on all my cars). So when my lease was up I moved back to the '17 MDX, which fortunately had gone to the 3rd gen redesign and also the mid-model refresh. The secure and confidence feelings returned during the winter, and even normal handling in the summer months makes the MDX handle like a much more nimble vehicle than the RDX ever did.
andy
I've told the story in earlier posts how I had a '13 MDX w/SH-AWD and loved it, and then moved to a '15 RDX AWD to overcome some of the things I didn't like in the 2nd gen MDX. The biggest "miss" when I moved to the 2nd gen RDX was the change in AWD. The loss of stability and traction was extremely noticeable (even with 4 snow tires, which I run on all my cars). So when my lease was up I moved back to the '17 MDX, which fortunately had gone to the 3rd gen redesign and also the mid-model refresh. The secure and confidence feelings returned during the winter, and even normal handling in the summer months makes the MDX handle like a much more nimble vehicle than the RDX ever did.
andy
All in all after driving a FWD Honda for 12 years, then purchasing a RWD Lexus to adding the Sport Hybrid to my fleet of cars. I can say my next cars will either be RWD or AWD only. The driving dynamics are just that much better.
09-05-2018, 09:50 AM
#35
I agree. I am of the opinion that AWD/4WD is the only way to go.
09-05-2018, 09:56 AM
#36
It seems that you are saying if you are not getting on the throttle and accelerating when you begin to lose control that there is no benefit to having AWD instead of FWD, and that unless actively applying throttle there is no power being delivered to the rear wheels making it FWD only.
09-05-2018, 10:19 AM
#37
You don't have to "hammer" the accelerator... However, yes, if you are not applying throttle you will not produce any torque to send to the rear. Engine braking apples to the front wheels only.
Techincally, if you're not applying throttle then it is No-wheel-drive. :-) But yes, engine braking is only through the front wheels... The rear wheels only get power when the engine applies torque.
Techincally, if you're not applying throttle then it is No-wheel-drive. :-) But yes, engine braking is only through the front wheels... The rear wheels only get power when the engine applies torque.
The question again was whether any power was delivered to the rear wheels when not actively applying throttle. If not then it's a FWD vehicle only whenever you take your foot off the gas. That is different then literature that says there is always at least 10% power being delivered to the rear wheels:
https://www.acura.com/mdx/modals/super-handling-all-wheel-drive
It mentions delivering 45% power to rear wheels when weight shifts to rear and 70% in corners under hard acceleration with 90% going to the front when cruising in a straight line (10% to rear). While delivering 45% or more power to the rear requires hard acceleration no where does it state that 100% of power is delivered to the front wheels unless throttle is being actively applied.
09-05-2018, 10:28 AM
#38
Unless in neutral, the transmission is still engaged and supplying power from the engine even if you are coasting by taking your foot off the gas. It's not as if by taking your foot off the gas and coasting that the engine is suddenly not sending any power to the transmission as that would be the equivalent of putting the vehicle in neutral.
The question again was whether any power was delivered to the rear wheels when not actively applying throttle. If not then it's a FWD vehicle only whenever you take your foot off the gas. That is different then literature that says there is always at least 10% power being delivered to the rear wheels:
https://www.acura.com/mdx/modals/sup...ll-wheel-drive
It mentions delivering 45% power to rear wheels when weight shifts to rear and 70% in corners under hard acceleration with 90% going to the front when cruising in a straight line (10% to rear). While delivering 45% or more power to the rear requires hard acceleration no where does it state that 100% of power is delivered to the front wheels unless throttle is being actively applied.
https://www.acura.com/mdx/modals/sup...ll-wheel-drive
It mentions delivering 45% power to rear wheels when weight shifts to rear and 70% in corners under hard acceleration with 90% going to the front when cruising in a straight line (10% to rear). While delivering 45% or more power to the rear requires hard acceleration no where does it state that 100% of power is delivered to the front wheels unless throttle is being actively applied.
09-06-2018, 10:15 PM
#39
Instructor
Thread Starter
Based on what i have read so far, I am pretty convinced to get the MDX. ultimately it is for family trip to all over, and safety first. to hear that its better than subaru's symmetrical awd is impressive.
09-07-2018, 12:04 AM
#40
Instructor
Thread Starter
We test drove the mazda cx9 over the weekend, and the engine is very good for immediate torque and its got more of that rush than the 9speed mdx that i could remember. felt similar in power band as the f pace 2.0l diesel but has slightly more sustained pull up the RPM. maybe the 91 octane would make it better. i specifically picked the signature model to woo my wife with luxury, but she was not impressed with the outside nor the inside. the claustrophobic feeling in the head room in the second row dropped the ball for her who would be back there caring the kid in the baby seat most the time in the foreseeable future. car handling felt neutral, the steering is well weighted, but to me, the f pace, cx9, mdx 9 speed are all on par in terms of urban street handling. with my first doodoo accident on our new couch last week, i am planning to buy a cheap option with good safety features and let my son thrash the car without hurting my feelings. will be test driving the 6 speed MDX 2015 tomorrow and see if its it!