Electrical failure
12-11-2012, 09:19 PM
#1
Advanced
Thread Starter
Electrical failure
I've had my 09 TSX 6 speed non Navi for 2 weeks now. Have driven it only 3 times since getting it. Went to start it tonight and nothing happened. No sound, no lights, no nothing. Checked the battery and it's strong. I don't have a shop manual yet, but suspect a major fuse blew? I synched my phone to the car the other day, and that's it. Can anyone advise please? I had an Integra for 22 years prior to this and it never acted up like this. HELP!
12-13-2012, 01:39 AM
#4
Advanced
Thread Starter
Disconnected battery leads and hooked up battery to a battery charger and the charger gauge indicated it was fully charged. I've checked all the fuses in the main box under the hood and nothing is blown. Also checked all the pertinent fuses in the driver and passenger compartments and couldn't find anything blown. I didn't check any of the fuses to the minor components like back up lights, wipers, etc. If any of those are blown, would the electrical still be totally dead?
Spoke to the dealer and they said to bring it in for a look. Possible parasitic draw after I synched my phone via the bluetooth in the car they said, but that's just a guess.
Spoke to the dealer and they said to bring it in for a look. Possible parasitic draw after I synched my phone via the bluetooth in the car they said, but that's just a guess.
12-13-2012, 01:56 PM
#5
That happen all the time bring it in they will look at it for you. I get this call every week with new cars i work at acura lmk if you need help.
Last edited by khoacu2; 12-13-2012 at 01:59 PM.
12-13-2012, 03:16 PM
#6
Advanced
Thread Starter
The battery has a view window on the top that tells if it's OK, needs water or needs charging. It's kinda hard to see, but it looks like it says it needs charging. I charged it all night and reconnected it this morning and still no power of any kind. I think the battery is totally dead. Instead of towing it to the dealer, why not just get a new aftermarket battery? I read that the TSX batteries are know to fail, is that true?
12-13-2012, 08:42 PM
#9
Advanced
Thread Starter
I'm still on the factory warranty, but don't know if it covers the battery after 3 years. I'm tempted to just go out and buy an aftermarket battery and be done with it instead of having it towed to the dealer on my day off. If there's some kind of parastic drainage going on, the new battery will also go flat eventually. What a pain in the ass...had an Integra for 22 years and it never gave me this kind of trouble....
12-13-2012, 09:40 PM
#10
i did he not listening to me. Take it to the dealer so they can reprogram your system, and no they not gona give you a free battery. buy a new battery and if it happen again go to the dealer
Last edited by khoacu2; 12-13-2012 at 09:45 PM.
12-14-2012, 09:37 AM
#11
Reprogram your system? What system? Why?
You can't say "get it reprogrammed" and in the next sentence tell the guy to buy a battery and take it to the dealer if it happens again.
And yes, the battery is covered by the warranty for the duration of the 4/50 warranty.
Accordingly, if the car needs to be "reprogrammed" then he doesn't need a new battery (your first sentence). If he needs a new battery (your second sentence) then the dealer will supply one if he is still under warranty.
If you actually are an Acura tech then you display all the characteristics of a bad tech.
12-14-2012, 10:22 AM
#13
©
2008 American Honda Motor Co., Inc. – All Rights Reserved 1 of 3
ServiceNews Article
Helping you fix it right the
first time - every time
When it comes to parasitic draw, the body controller area network (B-CAN) system
—first introduced in the
’04 TSX—is a major contributor. With the ignition switch turned to LOCK (0), all B-CAN-related
components still receive battery power. This gives the various control units such as the gauge control
module, the multiplex integrated control unit (MICU), the door multiplex control unit, the climate control
unit, the power seat control unit, etc., a means of communicating when, for instance, a power door lock
switch input signal changes or there’s a signal received from a keyless remote transmitter. Knowing what
the B-CAN system does when you turn the ignition switch to LOCK (0) will help you to recognize if it’s
causing an excessive parasitic draw problem. Normal parasitic draw on a battery varies from model to
model, depending on the number of control units involved. Just remember if the draw is less than 50 mA,
’04 TSX—is a major contributor. With the ignition switch turned to LOCK (0), all B-CAN-related
components still receive battery power. This gives the various control units such as the gauge control
module, the multiplex integrated control unit (MICU), the door multiplex control unit, the climate control
unit, the power seat control unit, etc., a means of communicating when, for instance, a power door lock
switch input signal changes or there’s a signal received from a keyless remote transmitter. Knowing what
the B-CAN system does when you turn the ignition switch to LOCK (0) will help you to recognize if it’s
causing an excessive parasitic draw problem. Normal parasitic draw on a battery varies from model to
model, depending on the number of control units involved. Just remember if the draw is less than 50 mA,
it’s
normal; if it’s 50 mA or more, it’s excessive.
Wake-up Mode and Sleep Mode
The B-CAN system has two operating modes to reduce parasitic draw: the wake-up mode and the sleep
mode. With the ignition switch turned to ON (II), the system is in the wake-up mode. During this time, the
system has both
mode. With the ignition switch turned to ON (II), the system is in the wake-up mode. During this time, the
system has both
+B power (HOT AT ALL TIMES) and IG1 power (HOT WITH IGNITION SWITCH ON)
and there’s a parasitic draw on the battery of about
200 mA or more. When you turn the ignition switch to
LOCK (0), the system stays awake as long as the key-off timer (part of the MICU) is running. The key-off
timer shuts off when the B-CAN system receives a door switch open input signal; otherwise, it shuts off
right at 10 minutes. With the system now in the sleep mode, the parasitic draw on the battery drops to
LOCK (0), the system stays awake as long as the key-off timer (part of the MICU) is running. The key-off
timer shuts off when the B-CAN system receives a door switch open input signal; otherwise, it shuts off
right at 10 minutes. With the system now in the sleep mode, the parasitic draw on the battery drops to
less than 50 mA
. It still has +B power (HOT AT ALL TIMES), though, and there are a number of signal
inputs that can wake it up to do some work. A good example is the power door lock switch. When you push
the switch to its lock or unlock position, the system wakes up, does whatever it needs to do, and then goes
back to sleep 5 seconds later.
inputs that can wake it up to do some work. A good example is the power door lock switch. When you push
the switch to its lock or unlock position, the system wakes up, does whatever it needs to do, and then goes
back to sleep 5 seconds later.
Don’t Just Rely on Component Replacement
Many service techs replace B-CAN-related components because they think those components are causing
the excessive parasitic draw. When checking for excessive draw, they find that by pulling the backup fuse
to the MICU, the parasitic draw drops to normal. What they don’t realize, though, is that the real cause for
the B-CAN system staying awake could be a stuck door lock switch. If that door lock switch sticks in either
its lock or unlock position (the input signal stays on), the system won’t return to the sleep mode. This will
keep an excessive parasitic draw on the battery that will kill it in short order. Just how long that actually
takes depends on the battery’s state of charge and other variables. A parasitic draw of about
the excessive parasitic draw. When checking for excessive draw, they find that by pulling the backup fuse
to the MICU, the parasitic draw drops to normal. What they don’t realize, though, is that the real cause for
the B-CAN system staying awake could be a stuck door lock switch. If that door lock switch sticks in either
its lock or unlock position (the input signal stays on), the system won’t return to the sleep mode. This will
keep an excessive parasitic draw on the battery that will kill it in short order. Just how long that actually
takes depends on the battery’s state of charge and other variables. A parasitic draw of about
200 mA will
usually kill a battery in about 2 days. So the bottom line is this: When it comes to excessive parasitic draw,
you can’t rely on component replacement to always fix things. Even though the suspected component was
replaced, there’s still an excessive parasitic draw problem that will probably wind up in a comeback . . . not
to mention one very unhappy service client.
usually kill a battery in about 2 days. So the bottom line is this: When it comes to excessive parasitic draw,
you can’t rely on component replacement to always fix things. Even though the suspected component was
replaced, there’s still an excessive parasitic draw problem that will probably wind up in a comeback . . . not
to mention one very unhappy service client.
Narrowing Things Down
An easy way to find out if the B-CAN system is staying awake
—and causing an excessive parasitic draw
problem—is to momentarily short one B-CAN communication wire to ground. There are two types of
B-CAN systems: a slower (33.33 kbps) single-wire system, and a faster (125 kbps) two-wire system,
which was first introduced in the ’09 TSX. Shorting the single wire to ground (single-wire system) or the
CAN_H wire to ground (two-wire system) at any of the B-CAN-related components stops all B-CAN
communication and puts all of the control units into the sleep mode. If doing this gets rid of the excessive
parasitic draw, then an input signal to one of the control units or a control unit itself is keeping the system
awake.
problem—is to momentarily short one B-CAN communication wire to ground. There are two types of
B-CAN systems: a slower (33.33 kbps) single-wire system, and a faster (125 kbps) two-wire system,
which was first introduced in the ’09 TSX. Shorting the single wire to ground (single-wire system) or the
CAN_H wire to ground (two-wire system) at any of the B-CAN-related components stops all B-CAN
communication and puts all of the control units into the sleep mode. If doing this gets rid of the excessive
parasitic draw, then an input signal to one of the control units or a control unit itself is keeping the system
awake.
July 2008
Excessive Parasitic Draw? Check If the B-CAN System Is Awake
Currently Applies To: All models with B-CAN system
B08070I
©
2008 American Honda Motor Co., Inc. – All Rights Reserved 2 of 3
ServiceNews Article
Helping you fix it right the
first time - every time
Finding the Culprit
There are two ways to find out which control unit is keeping the B-CAN system awake. One way is to use
the
the
All Data List in the HDS to check for any abnormal switch inputs such as a door lock switch that stays
on. Such inputs will keep the system awake. The other way is to start unplugging the components on the
B-CAN circuit one at a time. When you unplug the suspected control unit, the rest of the B-CAN-related
components will fall sleep. Make sure there are no abnormal switch inputs to that control unit, though,
such as a door lock switch that stays on, otherwise the B-CAN system will stay awake.
on. Such inputs will keep the system awake. The other way is to start unplugging the components on the
B-CAN circuit one at a time. When you unplug the suspected control unit, the rest of the B-CAN-related
components will fall sleep. Make sure there are no abnormal switch inputs to that control unit, though,
such as a door lock switch that stays on, otherwise the B-CAN system will stay awake.
Some Handy Tips
Without a doubt, chasing down an excessive parasitic draw problem can be time-consuming, even
frustrating work. Here are some handy tips to help make that job go just a little easier:
• Use the Auto Battery/Electrical System Analyzer (ED-18) to make sure the vehicle’s battery and
charging system are OK.
• Check to see if the vehicle has any aftermarket accessories. If it does, let the service advisor know
right away. He or she will need to get permission from your customer before you can unplug or remove
those accessories.
• If the vehicle has a security system, make sure you unplug the hood switch to simulate a closed hood.
• To check for excessive parasitic draw, use the LH41A AC/DC Low Current Clamp Meter (Model No.
FLULH41A), a required special tool. Only clamp meters that match the LH41’s resolution and accuracy
specs can be used to measure parasitic draw. See
frustrating work. Here are some handy tips to help make that job go just a little easier:
• Use the Auto Battery/Electrical System Analyzer (ED-18) to make sure the vehicle’s battery and
charging system are OK.
• Check to see if the vehicle has any aftermarket accessories. If it does, let the service advisor know
right away. He or she will need to get permission from your customer before you can unplug or remove
those accessories.
• If the vehicle has a security system, make sure you unplug the hood switch to simulate a closed hood.
• To check for excessive parasitic draw, use the LH41A AC/DC Low Current Clamp Meter (Model No.
FLULH41A), a required special tool. Only clamp meters that match the LH41’s resolution and accuracy
specs can be used to measure parasitic draw. See
Meet the LH41A Clamp Meter! below for details.
• Check the vehicle under the same conditions reported by your customer or written on the RO (for
example, your customer reported all the doors were locked and the security system was turned on).
• After turning the ignition switch to LOCK (0), open and close the driver’s door to shut off the key-off
timer. On most vehicles, this will cut the time it takes for the B-CAN system to go into the sleep mode.
• Check the vehicle under the same conditions reported by your customer or written on the RO (for
example, your customer reported all the doors were locked and the security system was turned on).
• After turning the ignition switch to LOCK (0), open and close the driver’s door to shut off the key-off
timer. On most vehicles, this will cut the time it takes for the B-CAN system to go into the sleep mode.
Meet the LH41A Clamp Meter!
Most clamp meters
can’t check for excessive parasitic draw because they won’t detect the small electrical
fields that parasitic draw generates. Also, the jaws on many of these clamp meters are just too small to fit
over battery cables, making them unusable for this job. This is where the LH41A clamp meter comes in.
This required special tool has several important operating features:
fields that parasitic draw generates. Also, the jaws on many of these clamp meters are just too small to fit
over battery cables, making them unusable for this job. This is where the LH41A clamp meter comes in.
This required special tool has several important operating features:
©
2008 American Honda Motor Co., Inc. – All Rights Reserved 3 of 3
ServiceNews Article
Helping you fix it right the
first time - every time
•
Zero Adjustment: The LH41A is really sensitive to magnetic fields and can change readings when
you move it. When doing a zero adjustment, hold the tool near the battery negative cable in the same
position you’ll be using it during testing. Make sure the jaws are closed and press the AUTO ZERO
you move it. When doing a zero adjustment, hold the tool near the battery negative cable in the same
position you’ll be using it during testing. Make sure the jaws are closed and press the AUTO ZERO
button.
•
•
Power Switch: The LH41A has a three-position power switch: OFF HOLD, DC, and AC. Always slide
the switch to DC when you’re checking parasitic draw.
• Auto Power Off: With the power switch set to DC, the LH41A will power down after about 8 minutes
the switch to DC when you’re checking parasitic draw.
• Auto Power Off: With the power switch set to DC, the LH41A will power down after about 8 minutes
of inactivity.
•
•
Data Hold: Sliding the power switch to OFF HOLD activates a data hold mode that displays the last
measured value for about 10 seconds. Once that time is up, the LH41A powers down.
• Auto Ranging: The LH41A has two available ranges: 4 amp and 40 amp. Use the decimal position in
the display to determine what range you’re in.
measured value for about 10 seconds. Once that time is up, the LH41A powers down.
• Auto Ranging: The LH41A has two available ranges: 4 amp and 40 amp. Use the decimal position in
the display to determine what range you’re in.
4 amp: X.XXX or .XXXX
40 amp: XX.XX
40 amp: XX.XX
If you need to order more of these tools for your shop, give the Acura Tool and Equipment folks a call at
888-424-6857
. You can also order it online; it’s just a few clicks away on the iN. From the main menu, click
on SERVICE. You can then click on either Service Bay and Tool and Equipment Program or eMall and
on SERVICE. You can then click on either Service Bay and Tool and Equipment Program or eMall and
Tool & Equipment Acura
. Either way takes you to the Tool and Equipment Program webpage. Once
there, click on Online Catalog, enter the part number in the Search box, and click on Go!. You’re taken
straight to the order page.
there, click on Online Catalog, enter the part number in the Search box, and click on Go!. You’re taken
straight to the order page.
To Learn More . . .
Want to sharpen your knowledge and skills on parasitic draw? Visit Online University, and check out skill
module ELS60 - Key-off Draw Testing.
The following 2 users liked this post by khoacu2:
MC MiYoung3269 (12-16-2012),
tsxoniner (12-14-2012)
12-14-2012, 11:49 AM
#14
See that. Much better.
Thanks!
Thanks!
The following users liked this post:
khoacu2 (12-14-2012)
12-14-2012, 03:08 PM
#15
Advanced
Thread Starter
khoacu2: Thanks for the technical info. That really helps me know that I have to take in to have the electronics evaluated, otherwise a new battery will eventually crap out again. The battery is definitely dead, barely any voltage on it when I measured it on a meter.
The following users liked this post:
khoacu2 (12-14-2012)
The following users liked this post:
khoacu2 (12-15-2012)
12-15-2012, 07:40 PM
#18
Advanced
Thread Starter
The following users liked this post:
khoacu2 (12-15-2012)
12-16-2012, 02:28 PM
#19
Drifting
I swear they should make timers the interior lights go out after a while so stuff like this doesn't happen. Happened to my Odyssey when I went to get a something out the glove box and a few days later to find that the battery was dead 
lol
lol
12-16-2012, 03:18 PM
#20
Advanced
Thread Starter
Yeah, the tow truck driver said Honda doesn't have timers for that, but other makers do. Headlights on automatic mode have timers, the same should be for the interior lights that are turned on manually.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Jamus22
2G TL Problems & Fixes
24
06-11-2023 10:08 AM
MrHeeltoe
1G TSX Tires, Wheels, & Suspension
20
02-23-2023 01:54 PM
detailersdomain
Wash & Wax
3
10-09-2015 10:13 PM
MrHeeltoe
2G TSX Tires, Wheels & Suspension
3
09-29-2015 10:43 PM
MrHeeltoe
3G TL Tires, Wheels & Suspension
0
09-28-2015 05:43 PM
