spdandpwr

Hey guys,

Just wanted to let you know that both of these OEM Honda intake manifolds are pretty close to direct swaps, just some minor modifications need to be made. However, I should note that between these two options (RRC & RBC), the RBC is actually a better bet, A) because it's cheaper and B) because it's tuned to provide more low-end/mid-range power. The RRC is specific to the JDM Type-R civic because that car has aggressive camshafts and a high revving motor vs the Si, which, while high revving, isn't nearly as aggressive and is tuned for the fat american market, lol.

I'll post dyno comparisons when I find them (I found them, look below!), but the price difference (over $200) warrants second guessing the decision to get the rrc.


Here's the info:

Today I had Daniel at Church Automotive dyno tune my car with a Port Matched RRC Intake Manifold.

I had the car dyno tuned with the Port Matched RBC Intake Manifold at Church Automotive and it made 247.3 hp and 177.1 tq.

I then had the car the dyno tuned with the Port Matched RRC Intake Manifold at Church Automotive and it made 246 hp and 174.4 tq.

To my surprise my car made less power with the RRC Intake Manifold.

Engine Mods are:

K20Z3
2008 TSX CAMSHAFT
AEM CAI V2 Heat Wrapped
BPI Velocity Stack
Skunk2 Race Header Heat Wrapped
Invidia Q300 Catback
2006 TSX Throttle Body
RDX 410cc Injector
Port Matched RBC Intake Manifold VS Port Matched RRC Intake Manifold
Hondata Intake Manifold Gasket
P2R Intake Throttle Body Spacer
P2R Throttle Body Gasket

Bold Blue is RBC Dyno Tuned
Pink is RRC Dyno Tuned
Thin Blue is a baseline dyno for the RRC

ttk5

Holy cow!! great job on your build so far man. Are you sure you have a 2nd gen TSX?? haha, havent seen one yet with that many performance mods.

I think those are really great numbers. Perhaps one of the reasons why the RRC produced lesser power than anticipated is because it was a port matched RRC. I have done my research comparing the 2 manifolds as well and people have not yet really tampered with the RRC. But at the same time, I cant really see porting the cylinders to hinder power. Regardless, great post and I will definitely use this info in the futre.

spdandpwr

Lol, sorry for making it unclear, the dyno comparo was on a k20z3, but the logic / science applies to the k24z3 in terms of the way the motor responds to the intake manifold.

spdandpwr

the rbc was port matched to allow for the tsx tb to match up to it. the rbc is a smaller tb port than the rrc.

optimusaccord

Pending on the path I take, I'll run the rbc with the turbo. But until I determine which way I'm going t/c vs s/c I'm going to hold off before doing much more. I'm wanting an LSD, and the zdx tb in the not too distant future.

spdandpwr

I know for a fact that you won't be able to port match the rbc to the zdx tb. The IACV is in the way...actually, just checked, you'll be able to do it...but you'll need a damn good machine shop to do it for you.

ed_423

Holy crap. Rbc manifold is now on top of my mod list

optimusaccord

What about using the p2r zdx tb adapter?? Wouldn't that let it meet up?? I mean yeah, it's going to transition it down a bit, but, better than boring stock TB out.

Or maybe have a shop fab up a different opening on the manifold to accept the larger TB....

spdandpwr

Yea, go to a machine shop, have them bore out the tb opening on the im...it shouldn't be bad, it's just that the zdx tb is sssoooo huge lol. Are you sure you don't wanna to the j35 tb instead? 68 to 64.5...

VortexBlueTSX

If i bring this a machine shop they should be able to put it in no problem right?

spdandpwr

^put what in? the throttle body or the intake manifold?

fn 2 awsum

I dont wanna turn this into a rbc vs rrc debate, but from what i have researched concerning both mabifolds, if u want high end power, go for rrc, if u want mid range+torque u go for rbc. This is all due to the size and length of the runners. Also another reason why these 2 manifolds give off different figures on this car mght be because of the mods that it has and the tune. May i ask if this is your car? Or is it someone elses? Ive seen this information some where else and if i remember correctly, theres was a big debate on the thread lol

musty hustla

What do RRC and RBC stand for?

spdandpwr

They don't stand for anything...they are part number codes for two different intake manifolds.

spdandpwr

Yep, that's the point of the thread, to let everyone know that the rbc may be a better option for the tsx. This info was pulled of k20a, this is someone elses car.

outersquare

i think another question that should be answered is if either manifold is an improvement over stock.

Euronoob

I was initially going for the RBC but then convinced to go the RRC. Now back to the decision board lol. Still don't have funds yet so I still have time to pick which one to go.

Also, optimus, which LSD will be able to "fit"(?) in the TSX/CU2? I am very interested in getting a LSD too but not sure where/how much it'd cost.

ssjoeboe9

247 at the flywheel?

spdandpwr

axion industries and 4130 fabrications have both confirmed that these manifolds are an improvement over stock. Not to mention, that everyone in the honda world gets anyone of these two manifolds when making a k manifold swap

outersquare

i never saw any dynos and i didn't realize "everyone else is doing it" actually adds power.

VortexBlueTSX

Intake manifold

ttk5

Outersquare, the RBC and RRC manifold are great power makers. Many people who have built their K - engines choose these manifolds for their build. Read this article, its very informative! the RRC is even better than some aftermarket manifolds

http://www.superstreetonline.com/tec...t/viewall.html

outersquare

yeah i've seen that before, but the RBB makes the most torque. IMO the newer plastic manifold is probably even better than the RBB.

If you read the article carefully, the RRC only makes more power when fully tuned. If you just bolt it up, it doesn't add any power.

Also, the test was done using a K20R. From the articles I've seen, K20s usually perform best with short runner manifolds. The K24s being a long stroke version, perform best with manifolds with long runners.

fn 2 awsum

Well said. But imo the rsp is now best for torque since the runners are a tad longer than the rbb. The rsp comes from the Honda Civic FN2R which you guys dont get. I personally own one but i replaced my rsp for the rrc for more power

spdandpwr

You're absolutely right! I am just waiting for the person who did the swap to post dyno sheets. But, untuned, the person who swapped to an rbc said there was a considerable difference (then again, butt dynos aren't entirely accurate).

outersquare

http://www.hondata.com/tuning_the_tsx.html

that is an article from long ago, when hondata did a K24A2 TSX build, and they already tried an RBC then.
It only made a bit more power in the last 1000 rpms but lost power everywhere else in the output curve.

"The purple line involved only one change, from the long RBB intake manifold - to the short Accord Euro R RBC intake manifold. This manifold has shorter and larger diameter runners than the RBB intake. It is well optimized for high RPM breathing. A gain of 2-3 HP from 6200 RPM to the redline though is not enough to offset the loss of torque pretty much everywhere under 6000 RPM for this engine setup."

spdandpwr

Where was the article? How far down, I saw something about the rbc, but there weren't dyno charts related to it...mind telling me how far down to scroll (sorry if I come off as dense, just want to be sure I'm reading what you're referencing).

And even if you are right about the test, the RBB on the k24a tsx is different than the plastic manifold found on the k24z3/z7, so your point is moot. You also note that a manifold with shorter runners and a sightly bigger plenum will allow for more top end power when tuned accordingly...the flashpro maps have these cars revving to 7600...

Let me find some real numbers, and I'll post it up.

spdandpwr

yea, they should be able to bore out the manifold to accommodate the bigger tb.