steezeus

Hello all,

I am a new owner of a 2010 PWP 4cyl TSX w/ Tech package. This is my first post on here but I've reading around the forums for almost a month now.

I come to you all with concerns of sound quality when adding aftermarket subs and an amp using a Line Out Converter. I've been digging deep for more info on this but they're aren't many specifics on sound quality for this situation. I was recently given (yes, given) two 12'' Polk db series subwoofers and a Bazooka BA1500 amp. Owner had no use for it and I guess he didn't feel like selling the gear. I might upgrade the amp when my pockets are straight but for now I'm trying to stay as low budget as possible. I need those low frequencies in my life and miss being able to feel the music like I could with my last system (two Kenwood 12's). A tight budget and complex install has kept me from touching the TSX for sound. But since I was given this gear I figured I'd see how well I could get it to sound in the TSX.

To the point: I'm aware of all the nasty DSP, equalization, and roll-off added by the stock amp. As an audiophile I hate "loud" music and strive for the flattest possible frequency response from my gear. That being said, I have discovered issues others have had with their sub+amp install. I am going to use a Line Out Converter for my install because the higher quality sound solutions are too expensive and complex. Now I know the rear speakers and sub can be victim to the amps frequency roll-off and crossovers. I want to know the best way to use a line out converter so that these issues affect my sub's freq response as little as possible. I want to hear what is really in the music not all the DSP that the stock amp is doing. If anyone is aware of other issues this may present I'd like to hear them. If I do this install and the stock amp cuts frequencies below 80hz (which I heard it does for the stock sub), this will have been a waste.

So I was wondering:

1. The best Line Out Converter to use?
* My choice as of now is the LC2i, found here: http://goo.gl/LrRvd
- It seems to be one of the few that try to combat stock DSP
- Fair price for what it claims to do


2. Which speakers to tap?
* Since the LC2i is 2 channel I'll need to tap two speakers.
- Which speakers should I chose to get the fullest freq. range possible?
- Both rears? Rear and the stock sub? Something else?
- Best practice for tapping the wires?

3. Anything else that should be done to preserve/achieve the highest possible sound quality?

If anyone has any thoughts or relevant info I'd love to hear it. I will be constructing a custom box for the subs and doing all the installation myself. Depending on the interest, I'd be willing to do a DIY of it all because TBH all the DIY's I've seen have been lacking to say the least. Sorry for the slightly lengthy post.. these are fairly specific issues and require details.

iCrap

The rears get the full signal afaik. Tap in from one of those. Factory crossover is stupid... i notice most the bass goes to the door speakers / deck rather than the sub.

steezeus

Thanks, good to know. Can anyone confirm this? I wonder if it would be beneficial to tap a rear speaker and the stock sub?

D4nnyD

I dont think that is true. The rear deck speakers are only for fill and do not get the full audio spectrum of sound. If you are just adding a subwoofer then taking hi-lo from the stock sub would be a better idea imo.

steezeus

Remember the LOC has 2 channels for input. Should I just tap one speaker instead of two? I feel like it would be a lot of work to tap anything but the rears or sub.

opboarding

Thank you for actually doing some research beforehand, rather than posting "yo i got this sub for free tell me how to install it".

Unfortunately, I have absolutely no knowledge of how to install speakers in our car.

steezeus

haha yeah I'm beginning to think I've dug deeper than most people care to go. I just want my setup to be the best it can and I want zero guess work during this install.

mercman

If your sub amp has speaker level inputs then use them to tap the sub wires. There is nothing special about a LOC and spending lots of good money on one is like using over priced cables or lighting your cigarettes with ten dollar bills, looks cool, but dumb.
The ELS eq is dynamic so unlike the base system there is no fixed slope for the sub or any speaker for that matter.
Lastly, get a Honda 98 and up speaker wire adapter and you can plug the sub wires into it without any splicing.
Jeff

steezeus

Thanks Jeff, I'll be ordering one of the Honda speaker wire adapters. I'm not sure why I didn't think to try this earlier but I ran some test frequencies thru the system and I could hear the sub respond below 35 hz so the new subs should perform well.

I don't disagree with you that LOC's are nothin special but I can't help but think some will perform better than others. I dont have speaker level inputs so I'll need a LOC. Now that I'll only be tapping the stock sub I won't need a 2 channel LOC but I was thinking about sticking with an active one. Do you know what the pros/cons are to active and passive LOC's or if its worth going active over passive?

BlackNsexy2010

I can tell you my personal experience..I've had a sub with a passive loc pulling the signal off the stock sub.. I thought it was okay..barely hit with radio and mainly heard it with cd's .. I put an ms8 in last week.. There is a noticeable difference in sub quality .. I def notice it with fm.. The speakers overall sound better ... Speakers are all stock inside still.. Before anyone yells at me yes I will be replacing the rest of the speakers .. Just been having trouble removing the tweeter out of the sail panel

bagwell

iTrader: (1)

I recently had an LC2i installed with Alpine MRPM500 amp and Alpine SWS-10D;
tapped into the sub and I'm not real happy with the bass...its just not right. I had the same setup on another car (minus the LC2i) with a sub-out and it blew this away...I tried to re-calibrate the LC2i to no avail. I might try tapping the rear speakers.

...but before I do, I'm going to completely disconnect the OEM sub and my sub and see if the rears are getting any bass (assuming I don't trade this car for an IS-F tomorrow).

steezeus

That's what I was afraid of.. so I assume you only tapped the rear sub and nothing else. I've yet to hear if anyone knows if tapping one rear speaker and the sub will get better results.. the LC2i is capable of tapping 2 channels after all.

When I played test tones through the system I heard response all the way below 35Hz.. which is plenty sufficient for good bass. Not sure where the cutoff is for the rear speakers but the tones played nevertheless. Makes me think aftermarket subs are very capable of sounding good.. may just need some (or a lot) of calibration/tweaking

sonu_7

I have tapped my subwoofer channel and was very disappointed. I then tapped my rear deck speakers, and as long as Pro Logic is turned off, the sound is MUCH better. I have kept my setup this way for 2 years now.


I'm running a PG amp on a JL Audio 10" W7.

shawnamin

Did you ever figure out if it is possible to tap both the sub and the rear deck? I currently have my rear decks tapped and it sounds way better than it did when i was tapped into the factory subwoofer. But i do need to upgrade to the lC2i because the signal from the rear decks aren't that powerful so i need to use a powered LOC to boost the signal. Do you experience this problem as well?

mercman

I assume we are still talking ELS, if so, no you can not tap a rear deck channel and the sub channel. The explanation of why is long and technical.

As far as a powered LOC, the signal has enough "power" to drive a speaker this is more than enough voltage "this is what your amp input needs" to drive any sub amp. You can adjust gain and on most amps "bass boast" to get more "power" to your new sub.

Remember, all channels on the ELS system are EQ'd for the factory speakers and tweaked for the selected input. The sub output might not have enough low end extension for thump music.

Jeff

aczace87

So I have
PAC LP7-2 L.O.C. PRO Series 2-Channel Line Output Converter with Remote Turn On

it cost only $18 on amazon. So this is a 2 channel as well all I did was put the the negative together and the two positive together than tapped the stock subwoofer wire. I believe the stock sub blue wire is negative and the gray is positive. so I connected the two negatives to the blue and two positive to the gray. I have a kicker amp and a Kicker L7 12 in sub installed which I did myself. Also with this line out converter you save so much time because it has a remote turn on for the amp so you hook the amps remote turn on to the converter and your done.

Matthew Nulph

no offense man but you are very very wrong when saying there is nothing special about a loc. Theres a huge difference in passive and active loc's. You can get a 20 dollar loc from walmart but you get what you pay for you will get your limited low level output that has the same bass roll off and limited fq range from your stock head unit and dont forget that any sloppy signals coming off the head unit will NOT filter it will pass right through to your amp which will get feed to your woofers. The signal sent to your amp is extremely important when seeking great sound quality and with a weak distorted signal comes clipping and need to turn gain uo more to amplify the weak signal which...results in clipping and after period of time burnt up voice coils. With an actice crossover it doesnt just convert the energy into a low level output, it also amplifies its resulting in a much stronger and cleaner signal. Which means your gain doesnt have to be turned up as high to achieve the same sound levels and much safer and much cleaner which is what audio is all about. It also expands your bandwidth "if your head unit is capable" to fqs that the factory unit rolls off which is alot more then you would think. You can also get a 6 channel and try summing channels to even out your fq range through the vehicle. Bottom line is if you are looking for a good sq set up you need a good strong audio signal thats clean and flat. I know for a fact and own experience that an active loc can take a sound system to another level and a cheap passive loc is.... Well you get what you pay for ha sorry for long post