Very time consuming to switch from gas to diesel. Check this out:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...t_of_it_column

 

Diesel costs only 10% or so more than premium (what the TSX now requires), but a diesel engine can easily get 60% or better mileage, so that's an easy net gain.

The cost of diesel will have to go way up relative to gasoline for it not to have an advantage.

 

In no way am I attacking what you're saying, but just to throw some numbers out there....In California where I live, we're paying roughly $4.75 for premium and I've seen diesel at $6.10 in some areas. Definitely not cool.

 

in socal the price of diesel varies widely. its because maybe only 1/3 of the stations carry it.

i hav enoticed more stations have it here up in norcal, the stations near my place its 4.65 for premium right now and diesel is just over $5 (about 5.10).


honestly if the 2010 TSX diesel, has a new grill and can get say 35mpg combined, i'd buy it.

the gas one gets about 25mpg combined if you are really light footed and i've read diesel is a lot more tolerant of not having to coast all the time etc. plus it might get more than 35mpg (the new diesel jetta supposedly gets something like 40 mpg and is a similar power plant / size of car).


so 35mpg is 40% more mpg for 10% more fuel cost, and likely a car that costs $2000 more.

i would do it just to not have to go to the gas station as often honestly.

 

Wow that's high. I just saw premium for $4.27 and diesel for $4.73 here in NJ.

 

The other big advantage of diesel is, higher "gas" mileage = reduced carbon emissions. Also, I have been following the conversations at forums.TDIclub.com, and I think it is realistic to expect 40-50 mpg.

 

Yep....according to an article from NY Times (I think it was NY Times), someone driving the car returned 44 mpg combined with some highway driving (53 mpg) and stop and go NYC traffic. That's pretty damn good!! And that was with the old engine, not the iDTEC engine.

 

Another week, another huge increase for gasoline, and a drop in Diesel prices. This is basically the third week in a row in which Diesel remained basically flat or dropped a little and gasoline jumped nationally and skyrocketed in CA. Diesel dropped 2.3 cents and gasoline rose 15.5 cents in CA last week.

At this point, Diesel is 4.969 and regular gas is 4.588 in CA -- a 8.3% difference, while Diesel is just a few percent above premium. So... is a diesel TSX which could get 50%+ better mileage than the gas TSX worth it? I thought so when diesel was 20% higher than gas, and I still think so now.

Unless Diesel goes to 30%+ more than gas, bring on the diesel TSX!

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp

 

Hopefully it drops back down below regular gas where it's supposed to be. I'd hate to see the diesel car market get killed before it even has a chance.

 

One patriotic reason for going diesel is that it will provide a ready-market for diesel substitutes that are feasible at current and higher prices. There is a long article on the net about making diesel-substitues from algae farming, surplus tires and plastic and even animal waste. I'm sure anyone who lives down-wind of a large pig farm will love to see that happen.

There is also oil shale and sand in the western US and Canada that can be tapped for petroleum but not at the fuel prices we've enjoyed over the last 30-40 years. It's just a shame we've been jerked into reality on such short notice. Small cars, bicycles and public transportation may be tolerable once we get used to them and soccer moms may even enjoy less-hectic lives once our kids learn how to walk and ride bicycles.

 

i was actulaly thinking about it. the US has excess diesel production which we ship to europe sincethey have a lot of diesel cars.


so if we start using diesel in our cars, then they will not trade us gasoline for our diesel.


so in effect the more diesel we use, the less we will send over there , so gasoline prices will go up maybe...

 

I've driven many modern diesels in Europe, and from a sporting perspective, they pale in comparison to the gas equivalents.

Frankly, I don't know why honda is putting this engine in the TSX, which is supposed to be a sports sedan. Diesels are for trucks, and economy. While the boatload of torque looks good on paper, a diesel powercurve doesn't make you grab the keys to go for a drive through the twisties.

If you want to save money on gas, and care more about commuting in luxury than enjoying the driving experience, this car is for you. If you think this engine is going to make the car more sporting to drive, you'll be mistaken.

 

YES!!!! I can't wait. I have got to at least get the chance to test drive one. I hope the steering won't detract from the performance.

 

fishbulb....Funny, you seem to have confirmed what my little brain was thinking but having not been an expert on Diesel, I was witholding making too many comments but at least its nice to see someone who thinks like me....my question though...could the turbo make up for the difference...and this is what has left me a bit perplex...

 

I think the performance will be pretty good on the diesel version. The 0-60 time will not be as good and the peak hp probably will not be as good, but it will have quite good passing acceleration. And tbh, when I'm driving 90 miles a day for a commute with some traffic and some open stretches, and when fuel prices are closing in on 5/gal... I'm not even thinking about how fast I can blaze through corners or come off the line. I want a good vehicle with stellar fuel economy, and good passing acceleration. I think the diesel will be better for me than the gas.

 

True, the diesel doesn't have the immediate throttle response you get with a gas engine, for three reasons: lower revs, heavier internal engine components and turbo lag.

It is also a heavier powertrain than it's gas counterpart.

Then again Peugeot and Audi seem to have shown again this year at Le Mans how diesel technology now has the potential to completely overshadow the gas engines.

All in all, with a good sporty chassis, you will still be able to get a good dynamic drive, probably so close to what you get with a gas engine in the curves and twisties that if you want or need more, you need to wonder if you'll always be driving that way to make it worth having a gas engine with it's increased operating costs: gas price, maintenance and longevity.

 

I'm honestly more interested in fuel economy + luxury than a sporty drive, so this car will be perfect for me.

 

Well it is supposed to be a turbo diesel so hopefully that will give us the best of both worlds: sporty performance and better fuel economy.

Acura, as of late, seems pretty dedicated to moving upmarket so hopefully they will not mess up ...

 

Ok new here so don't poo on me for giving my ... lol well maybe my 200 cents...thanks.

First a few roomers to dispel. A turbo charged direct injection diesel gives, performance, longevity, and economy all in one. Check out TDIclub.com, or European car web sites. Europe has had these cars for many years with even 5 series BMW's getting over 40 mpg highway. VW has been selling them in the US for many years as well.

First yes even with 140hp and 250tq the TSX will be sporty, b/c you have instant torque at any RPM due to a flat Torque curve. Roll on the throttle and the torque is always there, it makes for very fun driving and even a bit less shifting needed because you can pull at almost any RPM. Also yes it is Turbocharged and it is no slow poke.

Second yes the price to buy a diesel is 1-2k more expensive depending on the model of car, but many of you forget or just don't know that diesels do not depreciate like a gasoline car does. When you drive it off the lot it is still worth the same and does not drop 3k instantly it holds its value very well. You will get that 1-2k or more back at resale and then some.

Sorry I have a 2006 VW Jetta TDI (although I would love to have a TSX diesel, as my sister has an 07 TSX and I love the car but wont buy a gas sucking car... ) so I can only use that as an example. But 2 years old and with 31k miles on it I can still sell it for above the price I paid for it brand new... yes no joking around it is true, check kbb or craigslist or any other used car site for VW TDI's I paid 21,xxx for mine in early 2006 (5spd, premium wheels, 6 disc, everything etc).

Third yes diesel is more expensive to buy. But tell me this is I get almost 2x the mileage in my diesel and am only paying less than $1 more per gallon....how far ahead in the game am I than a gas driver.... I can pay close to $7 if a gas driver is paying $4 and still be ahead, just do a $/mile calculation (cost to fill up the tank / miles driven) = cents / mile compare this between your two cars.

And Btw maintenance costs are not higher they are about a wash. More expensive oil, but way fewer changes at 10k mile intervals between changes. Plus the diesel motor will last a lot longer, has no spark plugs, or distributor to ever replace and will not need a tune up...ever.

My 06 Jetta TDI was rated 36/41 (I get the city rating, an do about 46 on the highway) lifetime Avg to date is 38.8 MPG, the new 2009 TDI Jetta cars are rated on the much harder 2008 EPA calculations, that are not accurate for diesels, and are admittedly by the EPA even 18% low for light duty diesels.

That being said being lighter than the heavy German VW, the Japanese Acura should return great MPG numbers, I dont think 55 hwy will be normal unless you are driving 60-65mph non stop. I have done this in my TDI and returned 48-49 MPG many times on the highway, and this is with bigger wheels and performance tires.

Higher maintenance costs are not really true, and the payoff with even today's fuel prices will likely be much lower than 100k. In the past it has been 2-3 years (30-45k miles) payoff time over an equivalent gas powered car, and fuel prices are only going higher, further befitting all efficient cars.

Not true, refiners make a lot more profit from diesel than they do gasoline, and the USA taxes diesel more than they do gasoline adding to its cost. THey should tax them equally or even tax gasoline more to encorage efficiency like they do in Europe.

What does that all mean, well follow the money/ profit. They "the refiners" will be working as hard as they can to build up diesel refining capacity and cut gasoline production. Yes this takes time, as it is very difficult/expensive to retool refineries. But most of them will simply be adding capacity to their existing hydro cracking units. AKA the Motiva plant in TX, is currently being expanded to close to 2x its present size and will be the biggest refinery in the Nation. I know of several other diesel plants, including the Dakota plant you are talking about, that are being in the process of getting built or expanding their capacity to process the more heavy crude and new crude that will be coming on line from Alberta and the Canadian tar sand oil production. This all means more diesel capacity. Take a look at prices too gas is still rising and diesel has leveled of and started dropping in my area. Again I can still pay close to 2x as much and still break even.

Steve

 

Diesel price is not dependant on vechile usage.

Diesel is a commodity like coal and gas for heavy industry. With China and India coming online, things are going to get real scary.

 

The automatic gearbox is finally ready for the diesel Accord/TSX!


i-DTEC Automatic Gearbox
Paris will also see the debut of Honda's new automatic gearbox for the i-DTEC diesel engine. This new gearbox has been developed in response to European customer demands for an automatic option for the 2.2 litre diesel. The new gearbox has been developed exclusively for the i-DTEC turbodiesel, in order to compliment its flexibility and broader spread of torque. Honda's thorough approach to engineering would not allow the use of a third party gearbox, which might compromise the effectiveness of its newest engine.

Full article on Vtec.net: http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=787826

 

Have owned vehicles with either diesel or turbo diesel
1976 300d mercedes
1980 300td mercedes
1980 volvo diesel
1985 volvo turbo diesel
I would consider getting another turbo diesel if it had manual transmission

 

I had the "old " 2.2 I-CDTI on my ex euro accord and now I bought the new euro accord tourer 2.2 I-DTEC and I'm sure I'll make a lot of diesel economy
I have this car since today :-)

 

Would it though??
The rumors I remember hearing may be dead now, but I remember when they were talking about the turbo diesel they were saying that the engine would drop as much as 40-50 HP (to around 150-160) but the torque would jump something like 250.

With that kind of torque you could really get going. More than the current TSX, yea?

That rumor may have died a while ago; I'm just stating what I remember hearing.

 

Well those rumors were pretty much based off of the current Euro Accord Diesel which has those specs. TOV's model matrix says it will be a 170-180 HP diesel... apparently the TSX may get a higher tuned version.

It's certainly enough to move the car, and it would accelerate faster than the current TSX in certain time / speed segments. A 150-160 HP diesel would not beat the gas TSX from 0-60, but it would have very good starting power and would excel at passing acceleration.

 

As an 04 TL owner I really like the new tsx(09 TL is garbage to me) and had anticipated the new turbo diesel TSX but I would never buy anything with a 0-60 time of 9 seconds. Wayyyyy too slow IMO.
If they could get it in the 6.5 range then your talking.

 

I think the issue with diesel engines is the 'stigma' that is in our heads about diesel = truck engine. This is sooooo incorrect at this point of time, it's not funny.

European diesels are exellent. Ford focus diesel for exapmle, wipes the floor with the petrol variants.

 

This is what we've all been waiting for!!!

 

No auto, you want a 6 speed. Much better for control of the power, and better mileage. I had an '03 Jetta TDI that was great. I loved that car, good power and great mileage. I can't wait for this to come out, now I have to decide between a 6 speed 3rd gen TL or a new TSX diesel. Good move Honda!

 

No...... we all want the AUTO!

The tsx diesel will not be released with out it, hence we all want the auto (to be released).

I personally would buy a 6MT TD, and I already got a 6MT CU2.