HondaOnWORKS

Wow, again with your opinions. I don't even feel like you are talking facts anymore.

Lets get this straight, the last generation IS was crap because it was a re-badged Toyota Altezza and ruined the Lexus name? Funny, last I checked the IS300 was way better than the IS250. Lexus took the IS300 off, but created an useless piece of shit of an IS250 and a very good IS350. If anything, the IS250 ruined the Lexus image. The IS300 comes stock with a 2JZ engine which is very good for tuning. In terms of performance, the IS300 shits on the IS250.

I swear all you have been saying is the re-badged cars are shitty without any specific proof why.

Again, how is the Nissan Skyline GT an upscale car? While the Honda Accord Euro isn't? The Honda Accord Euro gets difference features compared to our Honda Accord. So if you were going to say the Honda Accord Euro sucks because its an Accord, think again. The Honda Accord Euro is more upscale compared to the USDM Accord. If you are going to make a big claim saying the Nissan Skyline GT is an upscale car, then provide some proof of why is it upscale. Cause to me, the Infiniti G is just a re badged Skyline GT since we are talking about re-badge cars.

Our debate goes no where when you provide no proof. Your main claim is the TSX isn't in the same segment of the C300, because its a re-badged Accord. Stupidest thing I ever heard, seriously. Look at the performance figures, features, quality, and etc. That's what makes the car in one segment, but you claim its not in the segment because its re-badged.

HondaOnWORKS

Its supposedly the Honda Accord Euro R in other markets. Its dubbed the CL7, and the Acura TSX is dubbed the CL9.

There are more videos of these on YouTube, and other places too.

Aruca Xst

Exactly! The first, second, and third generation Lexus LS is a rebadged toyota celsior.

Craig-D

I never said all re-badged cars are crap. What I said was the ones that aren't based on luxurious designs to begin with are near-luxury at best. What you need to realize is what makes car luxurious these days is not the sum of all its gadgets or its performance figures. If that is your luxury standard, consider that the electronics in most new Fords with things like blind spot monitoring, Sync, and MyFord blow away anything Acura offers. And a Ford Taurus SHO is no luxury vehicle, yet it will beat any Acura in a drag race (while massaging your back no less, something no Acura does). No, luxury isn't defined by gadgets and skidpad numbers anymore. You can get all that in non-luxury brands nowadays. The distinction is in the details - the things you can see and touch like interior furnishings. Acura did nothing to upgrade the very Honda-ish interior of the Euro Accord.

The Nissan Skyline is different. It has more power than U.S. Nissans. It is rear drive. It is equipped with touches such magnesium paddle shifters and real wood and/or aluminum in its interior. Things not typically found in a Nissan here. As a result, it translates well into a what is expected in a luxury brand here with little more than a badge change.

Here's your proof of everything I just said:

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/02/n...ased-in-japan/

Contrast that with the TSX, which has interior furnishings very similar to what Hondas here typically have - the buttons and knobs are the same and there is no wood or aluminum, just painted silver plastic intended to replicate it. There is no luxury vehicle from any brand with an interior as downgrade as the TSX. That's one reason why it's cheaper than everything else. And I'm okay with that, which is why I got one - but details like that is what makes the TSX closer to a Regal than an A4, 328, or IS250 IMHO.

KeithL

Agreed the IS300 was a blast to drive, the IS250 is an anemic turd.

Aruca Xst

The interior may look bland in comparison to a fully loaded A4, 328, OR IS250. Place it against a standard equipped A4, 328, or is250 and your looking at the TSX walking out as the winner. A fully loaded 328 is going to come out near 40k while a similarly equipped TSX with the 280 hp v6 tops out around 36-37k.
The Taurus Sho competes in the full-size family segment. Same can be said for the ford edge. It comes with great technology and power but it is not going to go up against the rx or the mdx. And luxury is not defined by gadget your right, its defined by brand perception and Acura is perceived to be a luxury brand. It is not a top-tier luxury brand by any means but it is a luxury brand nonetheless. The Buick brand barely escapes death, comes out with decent designs, and expects to compete with a luxury brand? GTFO, the lacrosse can't even take on the SHO. The ES would blow any buick out the waters and it is probably the most "grandma" vehicle Lexus has.

SSFTSX

Thats true performance and electronics dont define luxury.
but what about NVH/insulation ?. I bet 2011 TSX NVH/insulation is not less than any luxury of its class. how about built quality of suspension and body?
There is reason why all the road test people complained about Nissan VQ engines in Infiniti as it is not refined.

cp3117

Acura is actually struggling to establish its identity and has been since it was introduced in the 80's. Over the last couple years they have been saying they are going tier 1....and then their not, etc, etc.

I think your focusing to much on because Honda says Acura is their luxury brand that it then must mean that its equally comparable to all tier 1 models, which is not the case.

There are many models that are considered "Entry level Luxury" or "Near Luxury". Its a very large segment and most mainstream brands like Toyota, Nissan, VW, GM, etc etc all have top end models outside of their luxury divisions that compete with Entry Level Luxury models from Acura such as the TSX and TL.

I posted a comparo here last month between the TSX, VW CC and the Buick CXL. All of these are Entry Level Luxury Sedans and the TSX barely beat out the Buick with the VW dominating both brands.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...l_turbo_page_2

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...06720d4d53.pdf

Most of the time in these comparo's Acura is always commented on struggling in the luxury area when compared to top models from mainstream brands (especially VW's). IMO I find this very odd for a company like Acura that is suppose to be a dedicated Luxury brand.

Here in Canada we have models from BMW such as the 323i and the Mercedes C250 etc. The base TSX even has cloth seats though, so I can see where someone may compare a loaded TSX to the very base models from the tier 1 brands but in turn Acura and vehicles like the TSX and TL are more comparable and cross shopped by consumers with top models from the mainstream brands.............and Buick easily being one of them.

SSFTSX

It was 2011 Buikc against 2010 TSX.
and most of there marks are subjective like styling. with 2011 TSX has better navigation screen, more NVH/Heat resistence glass, slightly better interior/exterial and even better fuel economy.
All these will contribute to points that it will become winner of competition.

dom

Like I said, previous version (CL7). The current Euro Accord/TSX no longer has a 'R' version. That's what I was getting at. You do realize that the CL7/1st gen TSX, is not longer being made don't you?

HondaOnWORKS

You never literally said, but you are starting to imply it. When did I ever said "luxury is defined by equipment and performance" exactly those words?

The Ford Taurus SHO starts with a base price of 37K. I think that's more expensive than well... all of the entry level competition's base price. And to get a power moonroof which should have been standard because of it already being a 37K base price you need to add a 2K package, what a joke. It includes Audio system, and heated room seats which should have been standard too at 37K start price. And to get the offer with the blindspot you are talking about, you need to pay for the 3K package which pushes your SHO to about 41K before taxes. Who the hell pays 41K for a Ford Taurus (w/o Navi, w/ Navi, Ford site shows: 43.7K before taxes)? Yeah it offers blind spots warning, but does the A4, IS250, G25, 328i have it? No. So I guess you just claimed the Ford Taurus SHO is better than those cars too, huh? If the Ford Taurus SHO can beat the TSX in a drag then it can be the TSX's competition in the drag (A4, IS250, G25, 328i, C300). I mean you're comparing a TT V6 to a well N/A I4, totally wrong comparison.

Does it mean the Taurus is better? No. The Taurus interior doesn't offer the same quality the TSX offers, same goes with A4, IS250, G25, 328i, C300. And with the EPA rating of 17/25 its worst than the TSX, A4, IS250, G25, 328i, C300. What I found interesting is that you not once mentioned how the Ford Taurus is better than A4, IS250, G25, 328i, or the C300. Why do you hate Acura? I couldn't find massaging back anywhere.... you want to show me some facts of it having a back massage unit?

Besides, I believe the Taurus is poorly made. The SHO has more HP/TQ and it can't even beat a Infiniti G37 sedan in terms of performance.

http://www.insideline.com/infiniti/g...7-journey.html

I was getting at the fact that the TSX has the same luxury equipment and performance figures as the A4, IS250, C300, and G25 which puts it in the competition range. They also have the same material quality (roughly near each other in that too). Also the standard pricing is near each other as well, but the only reason the rest of the competition gets higher prices at fully loaded range: their packages are pricey. A base TSX starts at 29.6 while a IS250 starts at 33K. That's pretty close IMO. Then the packages comes in which gives the TSX the win, because the TSX packaging is simple its either everything or nothing which makes it cheaper. The Germans overprice everything. They sell a 700+ dollar lighting package? That's a rip off but it pushes the price up.

"The Nissan Skyline is different. It has more power than U.S. Nissans. It is rear drive. It is equipped with touches such magnesium paddle shifters and real wood and/or aluminum in its interior. Things not typically found in a Nissan here. As a result, it translates well into a what is expected in a luxury brand here with little more than a badge change."

The Honda Accord Euro is different. It has more power than the USDM Honda Accord.

US Accord: I4 - 190 bhp (140 kW)@7000, 162 lb·ft (220 N·m)@4400

Euro R (CL7): K20A engine rated 220 PS (160 kW; 220 hp)@8000rpm and 206 N·m (152 lb·ft)@6000rpm

Accord Type S: 2,199 cc (2.199 L; 134.2 cu in) I4 DOHC i-DTEC 180 PS (132 kW; 178 hp)@4000, 380 N·m (280 lb·ft)@2000

Source - Wiki

These are the two models of the Honda Accord in European markets that the TSX is based on. They produce more HP/TQ than our USDM Accords. Along side that they also get electric folding side mirrors, which the USDM Accord don't have neither does the TSX and many more. Basically things not found on the Honda Accord here in the states. As a result, it translates well into a what is expected in a luxury brand here with little more than a badge change.

As I said before, the European Accords are more upscale than our USDM Honda Accord, so I don't get where you are going with "Its base off the Honda Accord so its crap theory". Its based off a more upscale Honda Accord. Quit thinking its the USDM Accord.

Okay, I got the proof, but at the end its still a re-badged car so its crap to you. You're being really picky on this issue. You implied, "All re-badged cars suck like you said about the IS300 and TSX" so I brought the G sedan into play. Then you claim, "If its re-badged off a car that was already a "good car" then its still good." You are being very contradicting to your points. I mean how do you know the Nissan Skyline GT is even considered an upscale car in Japan? It can be a "meh" car too them. Also, how do you know the Infiniti G sedan doesn't have fake wood? Just because its based off the Skyline GT don't mean they can cheapen out on it and gave it fake wood.


Like I said before the parts will be similar if the company has a sister companies (branching out). Here is where I started to finally see that you are just bashing Honda. For one, Toyota and Lexus shares similar buttons and knobs in the interior center console. Not to forget to mention the navigation unit is probably the same thing. Again, 370z and Infiniti G sedans. Look at the center console, and tell me they don't look the same. The buttons on the Infiniti G sedan are made by Nissan. Same with the Toyota - Lexus, made by Toyota. They are going to have similar buttons and knobs.

TSX downgrade interior? Then what is the Infiniti's G interior? Shit? What about BMWs? Down straight crap? I'm a BMW fan boy and to be honest the BMW's interior is a joke. Its boring and cheap looking. They can't get the cup holders right. And the iDrive is stupid. Back to point. The Infiniti G interior is made with more plastic than the TSX. The TSX has a more refined interior compared to the Infiniti G's interior. So you saying TSX has a downgrade interior which makes it not a luxury brand then I guess BMW and Infiniti isn't either? You are just throwing out random points w/o facts (again). I think you are the only one that claims the TSX interior is cheap and a downgrade. I think the TSX interior is better than any Infiniti G and BMW 328i. That isn't the reason why the Acura TSX is cheaper than the competition. You want to know why the Acura TSX is cheaper than the competition? Because Acura don't offer stupid packaging like BMW and MB. Even Infiniti. MB/BMW offer a 700+ dollar lighting package. Infiniti offers a 1000+ dollar package for the moonroof. All these little things for packages jacks the price up while Acura doesn't do that. Its either all or none which keeps the price low. And a few other reasons.

How does the TSX compare to the Regal? Now I never been in a Regal, but I doubt the Regal's interior is as good as the TSXs since the TSX has a more refined interior than Infiniti. So I guess Infiniti G and TSX both competes with Regal? That's what you are saying. I provided with more than enough evidence that shows the TSX is more similar to the A4, IS250, C300, G25 competition which is the "Entry Level" Segment than you with Regal. The whole time you are just talking about how the re-badging makes the TSX a competition to the Regal, which is stupid. Even reviewers put the TSX against the A4, IS250, C300, G25 in competition. Even reviewers claim the TSX is an entry level luxury sedan. If a reviewers make these claims, I trust them over you.

Yay, my longest post yet =)

HondaOnWORKS

Yeah, I do. There was a mix of up versions during my debate with him.

Also, the current Euro Accord has a Type S model on the European site. I guess that's what replaced the Euro R? Maybe. Don't know, don't keep up with Euro Accords. I do feel that the 2nd gen TSX is more closely related to the Euro Accord Type S rather than the base Euro Accord, despite the Type S having a i-DETC engine.

HondaOnWORKS

The Acura TSX is more of a competition to the A4, C300, IS250, 328i and G25 despite what the reviewers compare the TSX with. Take a close look at the pictures provided with the reviews of each car, and look at them. The TSX offers less plastic in the interior, and it looks the LEAST CHEAP. The Buick and VW both look like they have cheap interiors. I also believe the TSX also offers more luxury features than the Buick and VW. If the features offered are the same, I bet the TSX's features are better and easier to use. The Bluetooth on the Acura cars are very good. The navigation Acura has on their cars are very easy to use. And the ELS sound system is amazing.

So when C/D claims a VW CC won the competition, I feel there was a bit of bias.
Basically what C/D is telling you is: The best car here is the VW CC, because it has LESS features than the TSX, worse build quality than the TSX, slower than the TSX, worse resale value than the TSX, worse reliability than the TSX, and has a cheaper interior quality than the TSX so buy the VW CC.

And c'mon, if anyone looked at the review and saw the interiors for all three cars, most likely everyone will say the TSX's interior looks the most refined of all three.

TSXKid2010

Soo...did anyone find that commercial?

cp3117

I find your last sentence in a previous post and your first sentence in response to my last post, interesting.

Your basically saying that if a reviewer agree's with your point that it must be valid but if someone provides facts from a credible source such as Car and Driver that has been around for 50+ years that they aren't credible and in fact are bias...

You should probably go and actually look at a new Regal and the VW CC. I have been in all three vehicles and I agree with "Keith" that the Regal does feel cheaper (SLIGHTLY Cheaper) than the TSX but is still very much a competitor to the TSX. The VW is way ahead of the TSX when it comes quality, fit/finish, etc. especially when they are both loaded.

In 2006 I narrowed my vehicle search down between a 1G TSX and VW Jetta 2.0T/GLI. While the TSX was a very good car I went with the Jetta as it was a much better value overall (perf, lux, fit/finish, etc, etc) and after I made the purchase there were a few comparo's that actually found and stated many of the things I found better in the Jetta also

Most of what your saying is opinion and not fact.

How do you feel that there was bias because the VW CC dominated the comparo?? The TSX had a huge advantage in the performance areas although I will say that a loaded VW CC VR6 4 Motion is more comparable to a TL.

You should actually read the comparo as many statements where how the TSX interior felt cheap and gloomy while the fit/finish, quality etc on the CC was much better.

If you actually loaded up both vehicles the CC would be roughly $1500 more than the TSX but you get AWD, heated/cooled seats, AFS Xenon headlights, Dynaudio, Nappa leather (TL only offers Milano and Nappa is a very expensive top of the line leather on BMW's, Audi's etc) 3 year free maintenace and MANY MANY more features. The CC has the top safety award from the IIHS in 2009 and the same CR recomendation and reliabilty as the TSX.

Even though a CC loaded with all of those better features is only slightly more than the TSX it is a overkill and is why the loaded version is the competitor to the TL etc. The model used in the comparo is a lower end version that doesnt have real wood and aluminum etc in its interiors (unlike the top model) which is similar to the TSX and still they stated that the CC was better.

All i was basically trying to show is that Buick and other mainstream models are also comparable and in some cases better than the TSX in the Entry Luxury level categories. A report released by JD Power or Edmunds that was posted over in "Car Talk" even showed that most consumers that cross shopped or traded their previous vehicle for an Acura other than previous Acura owners where Toyota, Honda and Nissan. This shows that more people cross shop Acura from mainstream brands than they do from the tier 1 brands.

Craig-D

Perhaps if you had actually been in all the cars like C&D has, you could form a knowledgeable opinion. But it's obvious you haven't. The only car in that C&D comparo that took a hit for its interior quality was, wait for it...the TSX:

"Add to that the TSX’s doom-and-gloom cockpit—its only garnish is an all-too-fake strip of apparently sun-weathered aluminum—and you find yourself piloting a car that “doesn’t have much ‘wow’ to it...”

C&D on the Regal interior:

"Its cockpit is bright and airy, with an interesting blend of surfaces and colors. All in all, a lovely automobile to behold."

C&D on the CC:

"The CC’s “bests” clogged the floodgates: best skidpad grip, best ergonomics, best fit and finish, best exterior styling, best interior styling, best handling, best transmission, best steering, best as-tested price, and best driver comfort."

absolude

Nice to see you back, VW Propaganda Machine, trying to show to the ignorant how superior lowest end german engineering is to whatever they mistakenly bought.
Remember some years ago how you claimed to own a certain VW model that wasn't available in Canada at the moment... It was great fun...
Keep the good work going, hope VW paycheck is good.

HondaOnWORKS

First off I like to say why are you bring up a fully loaded top of the line CC when you claimed it competes with the TL, but you brought it up against the TSX? We are strictly talking about the comparison from the link you presented, so all other models are irrelevant to our debate.

"You should actually read the comparo as many statements where how the TSX interior felt cheap and gloomy while the fit/finish, quality etc on the CC was much better."

Have you looked at the pictures? The pictures and the interior of each cars shows it. The TSX's interior looks more refined and luxurious than the VW CC.

"If you actually loaded up both vehicles the CC would be roughly $1500 more than the TSX but you get AWD, heated/cooled seats, AFS Xenon headlights, Dynaudio, Nappa leather (TL only offers Milano and Nappa is a very expensive top of the line leather on BMW's, Audi's etc) 3 year free maintenace and MANY MANY more features."

$1500 more than the TSX? The CC you are talking about, cost 40.8K before taxes, and 44.6K after taxes (9.5% SF TAX). That means a good deal would be 40K OTD. The Acura TSX V6 loaded is 39.1 before taxes and 42.8 (9.5%) after taxes. Judging by the fact I dropped 4K off the VW CC as a bargain. I will do the same for the TAX which goes to 38K. This is all assumption, but it seems like the TSX is more than 1.5K cheaper. Probably 2~3K cheaper.

Which brings me to your next point. The features. The TSX has heated/cooled seats... The ELS audio system on the Acura cars are amazing, and probably better than the DynoAudio VW CC has. I couldn't find the specs for the system, and I would like to see it. Post if you find it. Do you really care for Nappa leather? I don't. Bi-Xenon lights gives the CC a high beam HID light, which I don't really care for in my honest opinion. How often do you use high beam? Rarely...

I do feel you are pretty bias towards VW when you claimed your VW Jetta (which competes with Civics and Corollas, has plastic interior, and less luxurious features) is better than TSX. It shocked me as well when you claimed the Jetta is more luxurious, and more fit/finish than the TSX... Then later you said the Jetta is better. Don't tell me my stuff is opinions when you said that in our debate.

HondaOnWORKS

Oh, so he works for VW? "Pay Check" That explains how bias he is towards the Jetta.

You calling me ignorant when he claimed the Jetta is better than the TSX in terms of luxury and refinement. The Jetta wasn't even made to compete with the TSX, and the whole interior of the car is made with mostly cheap plastic... I think you are both ignorant to claim a VW Jetta is better than the TSX...

"Mistakenly" bought. This is a site to share information and talk about cars, not to try to convert people to buying VW. No one here mistakenly bought anything, because everyone has different taste. I just feel a tad bit annoyed when people like you walk in here to claim a car that cost half of what the TSX cost is better.

But I didn't mistakenly buy anything. My 6spd TSX is more well equip'ed than the VW Jetta. The refinement is way better for the interior and the navigation is by far the easiest to use. Good D/D car. Good MPG. Cheap maintenance. Better reliability (Jap>Germans). More Features. More everything. To sum up... how can I buy a car that is wrong? And how can a VW Jetta be better when my TSX can do everything the Jetta does plus more? I wouldn't trade my TSX for any VW, because well frankly... all the cars VW offered priced around my 08 TSX 6spd are worse than the TSX (In general with everything taking everything into account). VW GTI is good fun hatchback, only the MK 1,2, and 6. The rest of the other GTI are heavy, useless, and no fun.

HondaOnWORKS

That's their opinion, and my opinion is the TSX has better interior quality than those two cars. I can't believe you actually are blind enough to say the TSX interior is "pathetic" because it's not made with more plastic like the CC and Regal.

You're like the other guy that claims a VW Jetta is better than the TSX... Mind you that's too bias towards VW.

HondaOnWORKS

Ahh, I forgot to add. I don't need to be in cars possible to form a knowledgeable opinion. Why should I take a car reviewers opinion on looks?

best fit and finish, best exterior styling, best interior styling,

They claimed "best exterior styling" and "best interior styling". In case you didn't know looks are opinion based. I don't give a rats ass what C/D thinks, because they don't tell me what looks good and what doesn't. Besides, that still doesn't take the fact away the TSX has less plastic in the interior of the car. =P

elsapo

That is the problem with American cars. They have about 2500-3K of Union/Pension overhead that the Japanese automakers do not have.

So what happens is either they have to raise the price by 2500-3000 bucks or cut about 2-3grand in corners.

So you might get a powerful engine but shitty cheap looking interior with creaks and rattles etc.. and a car that is falling apart a few years later.

The Union/Pension overhead is a big problem.

Craig-D

Your opinion is based on pictures. Mine (and Car and Driver's) is based on the fact that I've actually been in all three cars (at an auto show). So we'll leave it to each reader as to whose opinion is based on more actual knowledge. The TSX has the least impressive interior of the bunch, but I never said it was pathetic. That didn't stop me from getting one though.

This comparo pitted the TSX against competitors it matches closest with. You won't find one anytime soon where it's pitted against the IS, 3 series, C class, A4, etc. There's a reason for that. And that's okay as long as we accept the TSX for what it is - and what it isn't. For $30k, TSX is one of the best cars you can buy. Stepping up to the others costs too much for me. They are better, but not better enough to justify the $8k it costs to equip them equally.

Craig-D

Sorry, but you are misinformed. It's not Union/Pension overhead that's the biggest difference - it's healthcare costs. Most every industrialized nation except the U.S. has nationalized healthcare. Foreign automakers don't have to pay for healthcare for their employees. American ones do. Even the foreign carmakers operating in America pay lower wages and provide inferior healthcare. However, the Detroit Big 3 have closed the labor cost gap of late:

http://www.autoobserver.com/2010/06/...ck-wallop.html

elsapo

Can you drive one of those off the lot with the same features you get on a Base TSX for 26 Grand? I like the fact that you can get a 4 banger thats fuel efficient and you get nice amenities for 26Grand.

A C300 starts with a 6 cylinder cant get the 4 banger, and begins at 35 Grand base ipod integration is 350 bucks, plus 750 if you want heated front seats, auto costs more etc.. if you haggle you can drive one off for about 36 Grand.

Thats 10 Grand more than the 4 banger TSX that gets 22/31 MPG vs 18/26 on the MB.

TSX is what it is, and I find the value proposition hard to beat and quite a nice bang for the buck automobile and japanese reliability to boot.

It seems quite a few folks here are a bit confused.

Aruca Xst

Agreed^^^^

Aruca Xst

You are such a tool bro. I have seen your brainless comments a while ago defending your Volkswagen. You are such a VW fanboy. If you think the CC can compete with a TL that was then I feel sorry for you. Heres the article for you to read: http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews..._s4/index.html.

The TL is placed against the VW Luxury segment, and in this case against one of the luxury performance cars in the S4. I am a big fan of the CC but homers like you make me sick. How reliable is that 2.0 Liter turbo the CC offers?? maybe 3 or 4 years of reliability before it blows? This gave me a good laugh. CC against a TL lol. The new Ford Taurus Sho should give the m56 a run for its money with your logic lol

Aruca Xst

And if you wanted the V6 option it offers 280 hp with 254 lbs of torque and it would still be cheaper OTD in comparison to the C-Class.

HondaOnWORKS

I have in a CC actually. I went with my cousin to purchase a car at VW, because he wanted a sporty hatchback. The GTI is a really fun hatchback. Back to point. I been in both the Acura TSX and the CC, not the Buick though. For me, when I touched and sat in the TSX and CC. The TSX feels more luxurious and more soft to the touch material was offered than the CC. The TSX also offers less plastic inside the vehicle, which is where I was getting at.

The only reason the reviewers like C/D bash on the Acura cars is because Acura decided to flood the center console w/ buttons. Mind you its only bad at first glance, but those buttons are actually really easy to use.

I personally feel like many others that the Acura TSX is in the Entry Level Luxury segment. You can actually find articles stating that, and there was a press release when the Infiniti G25 came out. Infiniti claim the car will help fight against the Acura TSX. In my theory the Acura TSX is made with quality that rivals the A4, C300, IS250, G25, and 328i. Also it brings the nearly the same performance #s better or worse. Also brings in almost the same luxury equipment. My point is its another ranking system based... All the brands are on the same boat, but Acura/Infiniti are at the lower end of the point. Same can be said about Audi, actually. Audi might do good in the UK, but here in the US. People rather have a MB/BMW over an Audi.

HondaOnWORKS

He is a VW fan boy. Did you notice where he said the VW Jetta is better than the Acura TSX?

He basically said, a small family car is better than an entry level luxury sedan.

I actually don't know where he came up with the fact that the Jetta is more luxurious and refined than the TSX...

nbaresejr

I have to agree with Craig-D on just about everything he said.

I have been in the Regal and the TSX and the interior i thought looked a little more upscale in the Regal.

For me the difference came down to price. I didnt think the standard regal matched up well wit the tsx (180hp, no HIDS). I shopped the Turbo Regal w/ a bunch of add ons (nav, HID). the MSRP was just under 34. That car matched up against the 4cyl tech very well but the Acura was 800 cheaper MSRP and could be bought for much less then that. I figured it was going to be about 3 to 4k savings because the regals are selling for pretty close to MSRP because they are in very short supply until production moves to Canada.

cp3117

Gee, thanks for showing us the lower volume 4G TL 6mt vs the S4. That vehicle was specifically designed to compete against the S4, 335i etc. The majority of 4G TL sales are FWD or 5AT SH-AWD versions. Here again are some more facts in the comparo's.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...c-3.6l-4motion

In this comparo the TL barely won due to better handling with its HPT package but both vehicles where still compared and in the same class. I found this quote interesting when they where commenting on the quality of the TL's interior.

"And it's hard to fault the materials used inside, the equal of its competitor here."

Dont you find it odd that they say its upto par with the VW but Acura is suppose to be the luxury brand??

Here is another comparo from edmunds that was on a infiniti forum comparing the CC, G37 and the TL where the TL came in last.

http://g35driver.com/forums/g35-seda...6-4motion.html

and yet another interesting quote.

"We all judged the CC's cabin Best in Show -- this people's car has an upscale look and feel inside that puts the two premium marques to shame. The accolades kept coming when we compared stereos, as the CC's Dynaudio setup blew the others out of the water with its superior warmth and clarity; the TL's ballyhooed ELS system, for the record, brought up the rear on every ballot."

I use to be a Japanese automotive fanboy like yourself in my late teens, early twenties but you really need to expand outside of Acurazine and educate yourself a little better in the automotive world.

WOW, you two are definitely in charge of the Kool-Aid around here.

You need to educate yourself more with the industry and realise that alot of vehicles compete and are cross shopped against each other. there are lots of comparo's out there but here are just a couple along with some quotes.

"The Jetta, and especially the GLI, moved up a class in the automotive caste system, allowing it to make direct eye contact with sports sedans such as the Acura TSX and Volvo S40."

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...nterior_page_3

Here is one of a few comparo's out there where the TSX is compared against the Jetta among others and the Jetta ended up first with the TSX 3rd.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests

The TSX is a great car and does compete against very base models like the A4, 3 series etc but it also competes against many mainstream models and is actually its main competition....especially and more specifically the 1G TSX.

No one is trying to convince either one of you that you should have purchased a Regal, CC or any other brand. Its just you came in here saying Buick was crap and a joke and not comparable to the TSX and that the TSX is basically only comparable to the tier 1 brands.....Well after all of facts shown here anyone can clearly see that your statements against Buick et el where false.

ed_423

cp3117

Hey its good to see you too absolude.

I see you still just troll the forums attacking members and making false accusations while providing absolutely no facts or anything productive to the debate....Keep up the awesome work.

SuperCK

<< super sizing that popcorn

cp3117

Hey congrats on the purchase. I would have probably done the same thing as I prefer the exterior styling of the TSX over the Regal.

You made a great point though in that you obviously compared the two because they are in the same class and very comparable vehicles.

HondaOnWORKS

You telling me to educate myself when you are the "fool" here claiming not to be trying to convert people to VW? You are pro VW, that's for sure. I haven't seen any people this pro towards VW ever. Next thing you going to tell me is that the VW CC is also better than the M3 cars. Get over yourself, seriously. No one wants to here how "good" your Jetta is. Don't come here promoting your Jetta on an Acura forum, you will get bashed.

Secondly, I don't care what reviews say. The articles you show me are quite bias. The Acura TSX lost to a Jetta GTI? Let me add the Jetta is also less well equiped, less reliable, cheaper material is being made from it, and etc... Get this through your thick head the Jetta is a small family car and its made to compete with Civic and Corolla. Even VW has claimed this to be true when they released the new generation Jetta which is cheaper due to the different suspension set-up. Its on google, look for it.

Thirdly, I don't know why you like C/D. Look what cars they compared. They compared a "Mid-Size Family Car (Accord)" to a "Compact Small Size Family Car (Jetta)" to a "Entry Level Luxury Sedan (TSX)" to a "Mid-Size American Car (Pontiac G6) to another "Mid-Size Performance Version of the Mazda6 (Mazda Speed6). Clearly if you have any sense of logic these cars aren't even compared in the right segment. Its like they took different cars from everywhere and compared them.

I also saw that article way before you posted it, and I thought it was clear bias. They took random cars from different segments and compared them. Then some how the car with most luxurious features and refinement became third. Also the car with the less luxurious features and refinement with also poor reliability gets first? C/D has some good articles, I admit, but the ones you showed me are completely bull.

If you are going to compare the cars, get them from the right segment because it makes more sense. What they did was compared an Tennis ball to an Cue Ball to a Basketball to a Golf Ball to a Soft Ball. All being balls(cars), but all different type of balls(cars). This makes for a horrible article that doesn't prove crap.

The article tells readers the Jetta which competes with Civics and Corolla is better than the TSX, because well it gives you less features, less reliable, poorer quality, less refinement, less luxurious, and on top of that you get a more expensive maintenance fee! So buy the VW Jetta! That's all I see from that article.

I guess you are one of those people that buy cars based off reviews, and you should know reviewers are just as bias as you and I.

If you claim Buick can be compared to the TSX, then that means the Buick Regal can be compared to the IS250, A4, C300, and 328i as well... Yeah? TSX is similar to the those cars, so Buick Regal is also. The whole time I was merely saying the Buick Regal is a joke, and it wouldn't be able to compete with the TSX. There are a number of reasons why that is true, but you want to talk about the reasons why they do compare. You claim the TSX interior is less refined than the Buick Regal's. How do you know? I can bet that the Buick Regal is made with more cheap plastic than the TSX. Here's some fun facts, why would anyone want a car that is Made in China? China consumers buy most of the Buick cars too.

nbaresejr

FYI, the North American-market Buick Regal is assembled alongside the Opel Insignia in Rüsselsheim, Germany. The regal is fo sale in China and very very popular but not made there.

HondaOnWORKS, im guessing by your signature that you are pretty young. I myself am only 32 and i think maybe some of the problem is that people under 40 or so view Buick as an old mans car. While i am sure some people still think that they are really making a push to bring down the buying age.

In all honesty there is no way anyone can look at these 2 cars with the correct equip (4cyl tech TSX to Regal Turbo TO5-7) and say they are not atleast in the ballpark. The regal pretty much matches ever single option except the back up nav camera. The tsx does add on the fly suspension setting changes (drive control i believe its called).

I did purchase the TSX because i liked the styling better and it was a better deal. I was also sick of my last 2 GM cars which had to many issues to list.

I guess it just comes down to what i consider Acura. I consider it Luxury but not Tier 1 luxury like Audi, BMW, Mercedes.

HondaOnWORKS

Its Made In China....

"Like its predecessor, it's built in China by Shanghai-GM, the joint venture company operated by General Motors and Chinese automaker SAIC."

Source: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ive/index.html

But however you're also right about it being made in Germany, quite a few companies have more than one assembly location.

Shanghai, China
Rüsselsheim, Germany
Oshawa, Ontario, Canada (2011)

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_Regal

I don't view Buick as old man cars. I just dislike Buick. I personally think they make shitty cars, and their quality fails to compare to any other automaker. Don't get me wrong, I like American cars, but Buick is a joke in terms of what American cars should be. Companies like Buick make foreign countries think Americans can't make cars.

The way I'm looking at it includes not just equipment and performance, but also made quality and materials used to make the car. The car can be well-equiped, but if its not made with quality, its not really consider to be able to compete with the TSX. A lot of people praise the TSX for its well refined interior quality with soft to the touch material almost everywhere. A lot owners that switch to Infiniti from Acura claims that Infiniti cars refinement and quality fails to compare to the Acura cars. To make a big claim saying Buick Regal has better "interior quality" than the TSX, that says that the Buick also has better quality than the G sedans. Also, has interior quality that rivals the A4, C300, IS250, 328i, which I don't believe. The TSX rivals these cars due to quality, interior material is really good with little cheap plastic, then the luxurious features and performance comes in.

My other point is also the Buick Regal features fail to compare to the TSX features. Features might be similar, but in terms of which of the two cars has better features the TSX wins.

Example would be the Audio system. Buick Regal has harman/kardon 320-watt, 9-speaker system

While the TSX has the ELS sytem which has:

• 415-watt amplifier with digital 96 kHz sampling for crystal-clear sound
• 10 speakers—1 per door, 2 tweeters, 1 center mid-range, 2 rear surround, 1 powered 8-inch sub-woofer
  
  http://www.acura.com/content/pdf/Edmunds_article.pdf
  
  Acura's ELS system also is ranked #1 among six luxury brands by Edmunds.

Another example would be the 011 Acura TSX offers a HDD for storage of music while the 011 Buick Regal doesn't.

Another example, Acura TSX offers Real Time Weather/Traffic.

Another example, rear vents

And there are probably many more features the Buick Regal lacks compared to the Acura TSX.

The TSX audio system is good enough to rival and beat Infiniti's Bose and Lexus' Mark Levinson audio systems. This is where I was getting at the whole time. The TSX performs way out of the Buick's league. Granted you are right when you said the Buick's Regal Turbo gives the same options, but are these options good enough to rival the TSX's? No.

"I guess it just comes down to what i consider Acura. I consider it Luxury but not Tier 1 luxury like Audi, BMW, Mercedes."

Wait, the Buick Regal can't be compared to Audi then? That's not what Buick thinks. At the Buick site, you can find that they will automatically compare the Buick Regal to the Audi A4 2.0T.

That's your opinion, but I still see it as a scale bases. Mercedes Benz > BMW > Lexus > Audi > Acura/Infiniti are all on the same boat but the Acura/Infiniti cars are at the end of the boat. What I'm saying is they are all luxury brands, but some brands are better than others.

Also my other point is the Acura TSX is more in competition with the A4, C300, 328i, IS250, and G25 cars because of the features it offers that is able to rival or beat the competitors cars features, rival in quality, rival in performance, and etc... Like I said in the examples above, Buick lacks quite a few features the TSX has. And for the features the Buick does have that the TSX have, the TSX's features are better.

4dr4bangrAccord

hyundai>buick