davidspalding

Well I was thinking of the creepy glowing "eye" of the sub in 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, but when you put it in this context, the BMW I saw looked like ..

http://membres.lycos.fr/benootmarjory/nemo-dory.jpg Warning: huge

5thTo2nd

Then you might be excited to know that a TSX coupe has been rumored to not be far off...

jesuswalks

"The next generation Accord will go on sale in the UK in summer 2008, and production versions of both the Saloon and Tourer versions will debut at the Geneva Motor Show in March."

Its coming, soon and fast.


http://www.automotoportal.com/articl...ts-the-big-3-0

Power1Pete

IMHO, $35k MSRP is very likely for a Navi SH-AWD 2.3 Turbo TSX. However, the base TSX FWD 2.4 should be about $1000 more than the current MSRP.

LuvMyTSX

I agree, it's nasty.

Milton TSX

Well it looks like all us TSX’ers can keep holding our breath. The much talked about 2009 platform will have a new skin and possible two different engines 2.4L and V6 but from what my good friend at Acura tells me NO SH-AWD. The TL gets SH-AWD next year and that will make for a very nice package but nothing like a TSX with SH-AWD. I hope he’s wrong but I doubt it he's the GM of the dealership

dom

Dealerships know as much about the next gen TSX as we do IMO. I don't put much weight in anything dealers have to say.

If the TSX is available in FWD only next time around, Acura can kiss a lot of current customers buh bye. As least thats the general consensus around here.

rb1

If they can't bring in an upgraded motor at under 30K (non-Navi), I'll go back to German cars, reliability be damned.

If VWAG can put their turbo motor into a well equipped car in the mid-20's (even below 20 back in the 1.8T days), surely Honda can figure out how to keep the price from going through the roof.

wackura

We're definately not a representative cross section or TSX buyers. One clue is the ratio of people here who have 6mt versus the ratio of 6mt models actualy sold. I can't think of any compelling reason for Honda to add RWD or AWD to the next TSX if they somehow reasoned that they wouldn't for the current model. A trade off was made and it will probably be made again unless they've decided to change their position in the market to compete more closely with BWM. They say they want to but realy they probably don't. They probably see the TSX as left over from Europe.

dom

The market that Acura thinks its in or at least wants to be in is either RWD or AWD. If they don't get there at some point they'll die a slow death IMO. Enthusiasts are the first to go (pretty much happened already) and the general consumer will not be far behind.

silverf16

I hope your dealer GM is right and that a small V6 will be offered rather than a blown 4.

Contray to what DOM said, some limited Dealer personnel do get a first glimps of some pictures and specs prior to public releases. Granted this usually occurs within a few months of public release. Given the timing, I am not surprised if some GM at dealers already have some limited information on the TSX.

wackura

We can't forget that the TSX is an overseas Accord with every option available. Their market's needs come before ours, hence we get stuck with engine bay that probably can't fit a V6 with a heavy breathing 4 cylinder compromise. When Honda eludes to tailoring the TSX to our wants and needs and being a part of new grand vision for Acura they are BSing us, it's an orphan car.

LaZyPiGgY

If only they would make the new TSX a rwd and mount the a V6 longitudinally to save space...

rb1

And I'll take a blown-4 over a 6....

Heck, one of the main reasons I bought a TSX is because it's has an I-4 (and a very sweet one at that), but I suppose that rationale has me in the minority.

V6 = mixed/city fuel economy out the window, and an even less desirable F/R weight ratio unless you go RWD...

DLTSX6MT

sounds spot-on to me.

5thTo2nd

+1 the orphan car comment.

Although having RWD/AWD would be seen as more "upscale", I'm tired of hearing that FWD is the reason for Acura's woes. Keep in mind the ever-luxurious Lexus has FWD in the ES350. Granted, the ES is not as sporty as the TSX, but how many people do you think would really jump ship to Acura if the TSX went from FWD to RWD. Many people wouldn't even notice.

Especially up here in Canada, I'd take FWD over AWD over RWD.

wackura

If the TSX were RWD it might even sell worse, because the average TSX buyer would more likely to say "you mean I won't be able to make it to the top of icy hills?" than nitpick the finer points of sporty handling.

dom

Who's forgetting. Thats the problem. As long as Acura continues to base their cars off the Honda Accord, they'll never get anywhere.

At minimum AWD needs to be an option.

dom

IF and thats a big IF Acura wants to compete with BMW, MB, Lexus and Infiniti that shouldn't matter one bit. They all sell thousands of RWD cars without problems. If they 'd like to continue where they are, then by all means worry about those customers.

Lets face it, there is a market for entry luxury FWD cars. I just personally think its shrinking.

dom

And the days of being at a disadvantage in the snow because of RWD are over. Traction and stability controls as well as snow tires have seen to that.

The only reason Acura chooses to remain FWD is because it cheaper. Thats THE ONLY reason. Until it affects their bottom line (IMO it will, eventually) they won't change.

wackura

RWD is worse in the snow because their is less weight on the rear of the car. Fancy digital rink roinks can't change the physics involved.

The new Accord is FWD and AWD isn't even available, and the next TL is likely based on that Accord so the chances of there being anything other than FWD again are super slim, and the odds of the next Euro Accord TSX having it when the US Accord doesn't is also super small. The fact that Honda does so little to make their Acura's stand apart from their Honda platforms definately strengthens the argument that Acura's just dressed up Hondas. Lexus doesn't seem to have this problem. BMW isn't based off a budget platform to begin with.

TommySalami

I feel like as long as Acura/Honda nails the styling of the new TSX like they did the old one, it'll still sell a lot. I see way too many TSX's and TL's around here to ever believe that Acura is in a recession or will be anytime soon. There are always people who just want a good looking, comfortable car with nice features, and who put the drivetrain behind these things. They can still be successful with a slow TSX but to get the attention of all those other people, Acura needs a RWD or AWD car with at least 250 hp. If they offer both and keep the price down for the fast one, they should cover two big groups of people and make a killing.

wackura

I almost forgot, because I don't live in Canada, but the Acura CSX is shining proof that Honda will scrape the sludge off the bottom of their barrel and call it an Acura to this day. They've had this image problem of being a milquetoast luxury marque for nearly fifteen years and for super obvious reasons, and 2008 doesn't look like the year they plan to find a new religion. None of this bothers me because the idea of having a fancy Honda appeals to me anyway, but I sense that this RWD thing means a lot to you. Might have to look elsewhere.

dom

RWD with snow tires > FWD without snows.

Fancy digital roinks haven't perfected RWD in the snow, but it has dramatically improved it. Which is the point.

Just because AWD isn't available on the Accord, that doesn't mean it won't be available on the TL or TSX for that matter. The RL platform is based off the Accord and it had AWD.

Everything else I agree with.

dom

Not that much. I'm more interested in a change. I've had nothing but FWD cars my entire life. Not counting my fathers old GMC Safari that was RWD. Never had a problem in the snow BTW.

I'm more interested in Acura really establishing themselves as a player. I just can't see them doing that with FWD cars based off the Accord (which the current TSX, TL and RL are) for much longer.

cbusAcuracls

I agree with wackura
Just my no rwd with or without snow tires will ever be as good as fwd.
Yes rwd has improved since the 90's..but like mentioned before the pure physics of it is not comparible esp. with all the weight in the front...Only if the car is MR will the rwd work potentially as good as fwd.

dom

We've has this discussion before although I can't find any links. But if I recall the consensus was AWD with snows >* and RWD with snows > FWD without.

But for arguments sake, even if FWD > RWD in the snow, is that enough of a reason to forgo RWD altogether? IMO, its not. I drove a RWD not so mini van equipped with all season's for 13 years up here without a problem. Its not as big a problem as most make it out to be.

TommySalami

Well, they DO have a TL in the bmw commercial with all the silver cars on the highway, although there are a lot of cars in that group. I think Acura is a player, but not in the sports category.

davidspalding

Maybe, but I'm with you. I drove a V6 Accord (coupe) and then a TSX, and though the interiors were similar, and the "oomph" fun to drive quotient very close, the mileage rating of the TSX won me over. 23mpg versus 29mpg ...

tsxgoogs

EXACTLY
This is the reason why the tl type s dose not have rwd. I think it was maybe one of the biggest mistakes of acuras short history acutually not changing the body style on the NSX but thats a different story

dj Dozhe

I personally don't think RWD is in the cards for Acura but AWD is. So that's all we can hope for. AWD may be a pipe dream, but RWD seems to be a frog ass licking hallucination. my

I added two for inflation.

CarbonGray Earl

I dunno....while I agree that Acura's gotta take that leap to AWD/RWD for the sake of the market, I personally am not fooled by it. I still like my 4-cylinder, high revving, FWD compact sedan.

For relatively lightweight compacts, I feel AWD/RWD is superflous and adds unnecessary weight.

Power1Pete

If anyone remembered a little car called Infiniti G20 six years ago, it was FWD and no one bought it.

Since then, Infiniti learned its own mistake and spent tons of money to develop the replacement, G35.

G35 = RWD / AWD

G35 sold more than 20x better than the old G20.

Now please tell me why Acura can't learn other company's mistake and give us a car that sells!

ninjamyst

I will be the first to jump ship if Acura ONLY gives RWD options. I live in Chicago and laugh at soooo many BMW slipping and sliding in the snow. I doubt the G35 will sell much less if it is FWD instead of RWD. To the average consumer, RWD vs FWD is not that big of a deal.

GenXY2k

i think G35's sell will drop if it's FWD.... the G's perfomance is good because it's RWD just like the 3 series. and let's not forget why infiniti brought skyline ( G ) over here, to directly compete with the bmw 3 series. these two models are both in the perfomance sdean domain and why?? because they are all base RWD models. the reason why they have AWD models it's just for ppl who live in snow regions like me !

plus.... putting G's 306hp/268torque through the front wheels????

davidspalding

YMMV, but when I was shopping among various Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura models, I noted the new and pre-owned Acuras were more affordable. I presume it's because of the "re-use factor," i.e. using an Euro Accord for the TSX, Civic for the RSX, domestic Accord platforms for TL and RL. So while it's nice to insist that Acura has to retool to a RWD car, what it does to the MSRP or invoice price might not be an equitable trade off.

CarbonGray Earl

The TSX needs to be RWD or AWD if and only if Acura considers it a direct competitor to an uber-model of entry level sport/lux cars. By that I mean, in public perception, drive wheels matter when you get into higher torque/HP like the 335, IS350, etc. Cost is less than a consideration relative to the performance perception. The right performance attributes and success in magazine comparisons seem to drive sales here.

However, I'd say if the TSX stays the same size, mass, and power, it can stay FWD and be a competent handler. Audi does this currently. SH-AWD coupled with a higher HP engine is absolutely necessary however, for any Honda competitor to the cars mentioned above.

acutsx

I was at the Acura dealership last week. I am hearing the TSX will be out in the Spring (2008 ? I thought I heard 2008 ..it could be 2009).
what I heard is the TSX will be out in Spring, TL will be introduced in Fall along with TSX Type-S ( AWD and turbo charged).. anyone else hear this ?

Power1Pete

People that know the date can't talk about it because of non-disclosure agreement.

Since I don't know, I guess it will be out in May 2008.

davidspalding

I think you're right ... for one market segment ... but not all.

When I was reading road test reviews and such, one of a few things that consistently got said, repeatedly, was that the TSX was an upscale fun to drive car comparable to its competitors in accoutrements, fit, finish, and driveability, but with a significant savings. Making it, ahem (thumps desk), a superior value. One review of the RSX was titled "Champagne performance on a beer budget." Again, you could be 100% right about the performance and configuration and how it lines up with Bimmers, Audis, VWs, et al, but if the invoice price then increases to match those, the TSX loses this important sales advantage. Wave your hands all you like, guys, but TCO is something the TSX has the lead in.