Colin

I'm sure there will be a lot of difference between the euro Accord and the TSX. During the new TSXs lifespan, Acura will launch in Europe and they can't sell the exact same car at both locations can they?

As for the turbo I'm beginning to have my doubts. We know there will be a N/A version of the current motor, and there is a V-6 being hinted at. The diesel is down the road. IMO these are the three engines that have been hinted to me.

ROOR, no coupe: new TSX, new TL and then the coupe.

Mokos23

I hope the new TSX has a graphite grey color this time around and LED taillights.

ninjamyst

ARGHHH....I was about to get Hondata this weekend but now I can't decide if I should wait and trade in my 06 for the 09.

gt0279a

Based on Colins info, this lists seems to be the added features the RDX has over the current TSX (sans SH-AWD and Turbo) that the 09 TSX would have:

-Power Drivers Seat Lumbar Support
-Memory Mirrors
-360 watt stereo w/ MP3/WMA
-Dual Mode and Dual ZoneClimate Control
-Passenger auto up/down window
-One touch open/close moonroof
-Passenger reverse down mirror
-18inch wheels
-Daytime Running Lights
-LED directional signals in mirrors

Tech Package Adds
-Nav w/ real-time traffic
-Rearview camera
-410 watt ELS stereo
-GPS solar sensing climate control

human668

Where will Acura/Honda build the new TSX? Still Japan?

Colin

I hear Japan

krio

thanks for the infos Colin!

the new infos are reported too on http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=732167

This MOVE allocation will include March production with March arrival of the 2008 TL, 2008 RDX and 2008 MDX and March production with April arrival of 2009 TSX and 2009 RL models.
2009 TSX
Designed and engineered to reaffirm its place as a desirable and affordable entry point for the Acura sedan range, the all-new redesigned second-generation 2009 TSX will be offered in two different packages

Standard Package: · The standard model will be similar to RDX’s and 08MY TSX’s standard features with new luxury amenities and audio capabilities that all contribute to the new TSX’s added appeal.

Technology Package:
The technology package is similar to the RDX’s technology packaging and will continue to “Advance” the image of Acura. The Technology Package includes:
· Acura Navigation System with Voice Recognition with new functionality
· AcuraLink Satellite Communication System
· Acura/ELS Surround Premium 10 Speaker Sound System

On the TSX side, word has it that a 4-cylinder, FWD version will be offered first, with a V6-powered SH-AWD model appearing at a later time. Supposedly a diesel will be available in calendar year 2009.

ostrich

Hmm.... I am not sure if it's a good idea to have yet another 4 cylinder without any other more powerful engine options until later on....

If the TSX comes right out with the V6 SH-AWD, it will just kill the other competitors off right away!!! :-)

Now, I am sure that people will say that they will need to reserve the V6 for the TL blah blah blah.... no, please look at the 3 series and 5 series. They share the same V6 and they still aim at different market segments and they have still succeeded.

JWhite1301

First time post in the TSX forum..... I used to have an 05 TL.

Anyway - I popped in the Acura dealerships here yesterday and was glancing at a TSX and TL - thinking of switching back to Acura. My salesman and I walked outside and he told me to hold off if I was willing to wait. He said they would have the first TSX's on their lot near the end of April. He confirmed the bump in HP, upgraded Navi system and gave me some dimensions. It will be 1 inch narrower and 2 inches shorter than the current TL - nice huh?

I will be seriously looking at buying one in April now.... Only reason I bought the TL the first time was size and power......

He also said the re-designed TL would be out in August.

Nogard13

Did he happen to mention if they fixed the God-awful turning radius our cars have? I mean, for a compact car, you shouldn't have to make a 3-point turn in an intersection.

krio

absol. agree with you.
The Audis and Merces too, or the Lexuses (except the ES) get the same V6 engines...
Don't you find ridiculous and funny the idea to put 286 hp on the TL Type-S and not 290, for "not damaging the selling of the RL"....???
The very good new I thing in fact is that, thanks to the introduction of the AWD in all the Acura range, we'll see eardicate the boring, stupid problem of limit in the growth of power. "It's FWD, too much torque st., heavy nose"...
Now we can hope getting soon REALLY BAD, HARD TYPE-S versions for our cars... Maybe the Type-RR as the Mugen's ones for Honda...

ninjamyst

I was hoping to see some new innovative technology / feature we haven't seen yet in Acura models. But if the new TSX will just get whatever RDX has, it's not that exciting. You see 'Advance Technology' in all their ads, but there's nothing that differentiates the features in their models from other car makers.

Just02

I don't think the TSX will have LED tails, but it should have Polished Metallic Metallic.

CarbonGray Earl

Relax guys, if the v6 SH-AWD is presented as a last stage, many manufacturers do this, including BMW.

However, I too am confused as to why Acura believes having a more powerful engine on lower models will encroach upon the next level model. I like the way Mercedes, Audi, and BMW think of it.....choose your body style, choose your engine. If anything, it would be nice if you could have overlap between models.

So the matrix would be like:

TSX: i4 turbo, v6 sh-awd
TL: v6 sh-awd, upgraded v6 sh-awd
RL: upgraded v6 sh-awd, v8 rwd

I'd like for them to make a type-r model out of the upper level models of each. Real Type-Rs, with everything that "type-r" means. The chances of that happening are distant.

odessa

Unfortunately, very true.

odessa

Problem is Honda overlaps Acura TSX/TL with Honda Accord (not to mention that TSX is Accord for the rest of the world). Honda should differentiate more between Acura and Honda, even if Acura cars will cost more.
Of course it all has been said before.

JeffS

What are some examples of innovative technology / features you would like to see? I would expect all new tech to go to the RL and the TL first before the TSX.

I would like, but am not expecting, keyless access.

JeffS

I agree with the LED taillights, but it has always had a graphite grey color, Carbon Grey Pearl.

I would expect the new one to have Polished Metal Metallic or Grigio Metallic from the 09 RL as its grey color.

Nogard13

LED Tails and maybe interior lights
Automatic headlights (lights that come on depending on how dark it is outside. My g/f's Corolla has this, for Christ's sake)
Keyless entry / start (keep the FOB in your pocket)
Back-up cam
Heated and Cooled seats
Auto up and down windows on all four doors
Auto locking/unlocking doors when you shift in/out of Park
Memory mirrors
Integrated iPod with track name display

I don't know, that's just the stuff that I could think of in 2 seconds. I'm sure if I put more time and effort into it, I'd come up with a few more.

Colin

This is the difference between being an enthusiast and being a business. Don't you think that Acura will sell all the first year production of a new TSX without the need for a V-6?

Mfgs need to have 'something new' all the time but the problem is that creating 'something new' costs money. The best way is to add new things as the car progresses through it's lifespan. This way you are adding the cost in production as you amortize the expense of the new platform.

For example, I have an iPhone. I didn't buy at 599 cause I thought that was too much. Some out there think that 399 is still too much, and some will wait till it offers expandable memory or voice dialing or .... whatever.

The point is that in retail sales, you capture new customers and different price points and different feature levels. As to iPhone shows, you only need to be 'good enough' (compared to the competition) to sell all you can make anyway. Excess demand when production capacity is fixed does not help the manufacturer.

Colin

To add a bit to my post above, I already foresee huge supply problems for the TSX. Think about it, Seven exterior colors, 3 interior colors, Base and Tech, What about automatics and manuals?

Now add the rumored V-6. Lets assume that this only comes in an automatic (no SH-AWD manuals out yet). Lets assume that there is only one level, loaded. Now add the rumored Diesel. This would give the TSX more possible combinations than the MDX!

With 5 trim levels and all the colors, dealers need something like 90 MDXs to have one of every combination. Nobody has 90 in stock. To complicate matters, MDXs are produced at a rate of about 70,000 annually, the TSX will be (guessing here, no word yet) 20,000-40,000?

Look how difficult a time Flounder is having finding a 6-MT manual Navi in a specific color and you get the picture....

krio

I don't think at all that the TSX need and will get a V6 whenever in the next gen.
When in Frankfurt presented the concept of the next european Accord (Acura TSX) they were speaking only of a V4 engine, and of Turbo V4, NOT V6.
Yes, there are differences often between american and europeans, but I believe the TSX will get a BASE V4 220hp 2.4L, and after a 2.4L Turbo with 260 hp AWD.
In 2009 in Europe we will se the next Turbo Diesel Accord...

CarbonGray Earl

That almost goes without saying, like you said. The global strategy has to be re-examined. I have read that the global strategy is to differentiate using SH-AWD solely on Acura, but it has to go MUCH further than that, IMO.

Colin

I'm assuming you are talking about an I4 and not a V4. In any case, you are definitely in the minority here. It seems like everyone wants a V6 TSX and although I'm not one of them, I think it will happen. Why?

Don't forget that the TL is being redesigned in the fall, and if rumors are true, its getting SH and a bigger (must compete with the accord) V-6. If this mirrors what happened 2003, the new TL will start at roughly where the current TL Type-S is. This would create a HUGE hole in the (under) 35K, V-6 sedan range for Acura.

krio

[QUOTE=Colin]I'm assuming you are talking about an I4 and not a V4.

yeap, sorry!

black label

I wouldn't want a V6 in a TSX, if it had one it would be too much like a TL.

I just want to see an 09 in the Vortex Blue Pearl or the Basque Red Pearl (not a version of "pull me over red"), they both look like they will be sharp colors.

ostrich

... but Colin, the lack of power has already been the main complaint of the current TSX by the consumers and the auto press. So if this is not addressed immediately with the 2009 TSX, I guess there will be much disappointment.

I have paid off my TSX and am ready for a new vehicle within the next year or two. If the TSX comes out with a powerful engine with SH-AWD right away, I may be very tempted. However, if it does not, I probably will look elsewhere. But I guess losing one customer may not mean so much to the big corporate...

BTW, IMHO if Acura is serious about competing with BMW and Audi, then being just "good enough" may not be enough, esp. when the others are always improving themselves too and they already started off at a higher level.... but this is just my uneducated opinion.

Thanks again for all the great info! Keep it coming!!!

ostrich

Colin, please help me out here - how do the traditional luxury manufacturers like BMW deal with this situation? For instance, the 3 series has way many more combination options than what you have described above for the TSX. How do the BMW dealerships deal with that? I know that Bimmers are more expensive, but I do hope that Acura will want to be like BMW one day... or maybe I have the wrong impression? Perhaps it does not want to be like BMW? I appreciate your input on this.

Colin

I'm not trying to put anyone down with the enthusiast vs. business example, I'm just pointing out a (possible) reason for the difference between what we want and what we get.

Despite the current TSXs (perceived) lack of power it continues to sell well. So the question is: Does Acura really want to compete with BMW and Audi? Well, I've sold the product for 12 years and they are always saying that, I'm not sure that they really want it at their core.

They certainly strive to compete within the framework established by HMC, ie. match performance and luxury on existing platforms, but I believe that the brand has had such great success doing what they're doing (platform sharing) and thus its hard to make a case (to HMC) for a huge change in philosophy.

Colin

From BMWs corporate site regarding the 3 series : "Overall, the sales volume of this model series climbed by 17.1% to 508,479 units" As you can see, BMW sells more 3 series' than Honda sells Accords. Remember that when you think that a 328 is 'exclusive'

CarbonGray Earl

The outstanding point out of this is that with European cars, you can personalize your car. Its a hallmark of the European buying experience, from a lowly saab 9-3 to Maserati Quattroporte. From the comsumer standpoint, supply lines aren't our concern. The feeling that we should be getting is that, we order it, you make it to our liking. You could even take European Delivery of the very car you ordered! Talk about personalized.

However, given Acura's lower volume, I understand how difficult this might be. But if Acura wishes to be transcendent amongst manufacturers, at least amongst Japanese manufacturers, personalization shouldn't be an issue. If anything, at least RL buyers should feel special in someway.

Nogard13

Those are world-wide sales numbers for the 3 series. Now, if you want to be fair, you must count the Euro Accord, the TSX, the USDM Accord, the TL (Accord based), and the Inspire. I'm sure those numbers, added together, eclipse the BMW numbers.

Colin

This is true, and you wait three months to get your car. This business model is something I don't EVER see HMC adapting. Their production lines are not set up for this, they dealer body is not geared for this, and Honda customers moving up the Acura don't want to wait.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that this is right or wrong, or if I like it or dislike it. I simply think it goes against the Honda corporate mantra of efficiency.

Colin

Sorry I disagree. The answer was regarding the TSX vs. BMW in Ostrichs question. This means (for now) North America only. I can't sell a euro Accord or Inspire if I run out of a specific TSX.

ninjamyst

I would love a turbo I-4 for the next TSX Type-S, and I am pretty confident it will go that way. The V6 will be reserved for TL and up. The only worry I have is MPG with the turbo. The RDX gas mileage is pretty horrible.

Brandon24pdx

TSX sales for the US hover somewhere in the low to mid 30,000 units annually IIRC...a lower volume model in the grand scheme of things. I looked it up once.

Colin

Exactly my point! Unless they plan for more volume, more model variations will not necessarily make things better!

LuvMyTSX

A diesel would totally rock. I really hope we get one here. I paid off my car on Friday and I'm looking at 2011 or so for a new car, so I'm hoping the new TSX with a diesel is available by then.

I got 34 mpg doing 75 on my trip from NJ to DC on Saturday and would love to see that even higher, especially around town since I'm rarely on the highway anymore.

VorteC

I'm just throwing this out there incase anyone from Acura is reading... when it's time for me to trade in my 04 TSX, there had better be a turbo4 or v6 version of the tsx I can buy or else I'm going to spend the extra 2 grand and buying a 3 series.

CarbonGray Earl

What you say is true, but given the numbers for some of those cars, a 3 month wait isn't detrimental to their sales.

Unfortunately, after some thought, I agree with you that Honda won't do this. It would be nice however, to have a multitude of choices for once with Acura. I still believe that short of custom ordering/personalization, having a multitude of choices would help change perception on Acura as a maker of luxury autos.

Nonetheless Colin, I do appreciate the advance info you give us here. If anything, I think the sense of anticipation really gets imaginations going on this forum.