New Car Test Drive review
04-29-2008, 12:03 PM
#1
Banned
Thread Starter
New Car Test Drive review
http://www.nctd.com/review-intro.?Ve...&ReviewID=4338
Interesting take, although not everyone will agree with the conclusion.
Interesting take, although not everyone will agree with the conclusion.
04-29-2008, 12:20 PM
#2
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Originally Posted by Iceman
http://www.nctd.com/review-intro.?Ve...&ReviewID=4338
Interesting take, although not everyone will agree with the conclusion.
Interesting take, although not everyone will agree with the conclusion.
04-29-2008, 12:27 PM
#3
Safety Car
Lemme Try
2009 Acura TSX
All-new sport-luxury sedan.
By Tom Lankard
Overview
With the 2009 TSX, Acura has done a full remake of its entry-luxury level sedan. More than just bolting a slick new body on an old platform, the TSX is new from the ground up, as in, longer, wider and lower. In a couple measures, it's roomier, too.
Technology is what sets the new TSX apart. Acura's superb navigation system comes standard and can be operated using voice-recognition. The standard navigation system is the equal of anything in the class, while an optional system displays real-time traffic with congestion re-routing and local and national weather. An airlines display lets you track a flight's progress across the country. The top-line audio system sets a standard for the class, too, with superbly crisp surround sound. Hands-free, Bluetooth cell phone architecture is built right into the car's electronics.
The 2009 Acura TSX is a four-door, five-passenger sedan designed to competed with Audi A4 and BMW 3 Series sedans. It comes with one engine, a 2.4-liter inline-4, and a choice of transmissions, a six-speed manual and a five-speed SportShift sequential automatic. Although horsepower is off slightly, torque is increased by enough to make up any difference in sheer acceleration. Just as important, fuel economy is unchanged with the manual and improved with the automatic. The TSX stays with a front-wheel-drive configuration, whereas true sporty sedans are rear-wheel drive. That said, the TSX is one of the better-handling front-wheel-drive sedans and in its class, hard to beat as an everyday driver that can still be fun on a mountain road.
Styling stays true to Acura themes for 2009, but cleans up here and there to give the car a more aggressive, more buff look and to emphasize its more planted stance. The wider part, where it adds a couple inches between the wheels side to side, translates directly into a sportier driving feel.
Everything inside that matters is powered, including the adjustments on both front seats. Dual-zone climate control and heated seats and outside mirrors are standard. Safety hasn't been overlooked either, with everything from a full array of airbags to electronic stability control to tire pressure monitors included at no extra cost.
Model Lineup
The 2009 Acura TSX is a four-door, five-passenger sedan with a 2.4-liter, 201-hp four-cylinder engine and a no-cost choice of either a six-speed manual or a five-speed sequential SportShift automatic.
The Acura TSX ($28,960) comes standard with leather upholstery, dual-zone automatic climate control, heated seats, eight-way adjustable driver's seat with memory, four-way passenger seat, power seats, windows and locks, heated outside mirrors, steering wheel controls for cruise and audio, seven-speaker AM/FM/XM/6CD stereo; USB and auxiliary audio input jacks in the center console, power tilt-and-slide moonroof with shade; Bluetooth connectivity; garage door remote; two power outlets; xenon HID headlights; fog lights; speed-sensitive wipers.
The TSX with the Technology Package ($32,060) replaces the standard audio system with a 10-speaker, surround-sound, 415-watt, AM/FM/XM tuner with multi-format, six-disc CD/DVD audio changer. The navigation system adds a rearview camera, AcuraLink Real-Time traffic (in 76 major metropolitan markets) with dynamic re-routing, AcuraLink weather and AcuraLink satellite communication system.
Acura-approved, interior and exterior accessories are available from dealers. For inside, the list includes Dark Metallic and Titian Silver interior trim kits, trunk tray, trunk hooks, cargo organizer, and cargo net. Among those for the outside are 18-inch, 10-spoke, chrome-look or ebony-finish alloy wheels to replace the stock 17-inch aluminum alloys; backup sensor; wheel locks; sport bumper kit; rear bumper applique; deck lid spoiler or wing spoiler; moonroof visor; car cover; and nose mask.
Safety features include a full complement of airbags to protect occupants front and rear in frontal and side impact crashes. Rear outboard seats provide anchors (LATCH) for child safety seats. Antilock brakes let the driver steer the car during emergency stops, brake assist boosts initial brake pressure in panic stops and electronic brake-force distribution apportions brake application between front and rear to optimize stopping distance. Electronic stability assist, coupled with traction control, adjusts brake and throttle to keep the car going where it's supposed to go through evasive or avoidance maneuvers or when road conditions deteriorate. And tire pressure monitors tell the driver when a tire gets low on air.
All-new sport-luxury sedan.
By Tom Lankard
Overview
With the 2009 TSX, Acura has done a full remake of its entry-luxury level sedan. More than just bolting a slick new body on an old platform, the TSX is new from the ground up, as in, longer, wider and lower. In a couple measures, it's roomier, too.
Technology is what sets the new TSX apart. Acura's superb navigation system comes standard and can be operated using voice-recognition. The standard navigation system is the equal of anything in the class, while an optional system displays real-time traffic with congestion re-routing and local and national weather. An airlines display lets you track a flight's progress across the country. The top-line audio system sets a standard for the class, too, with superbly crisp surround sound. Hands-free, Bluetooth cell phone architecture is built right into the car's electronics.
The 2009 Acura TSX is a four-door, five-passenger sedan designed to competed with Audi A4 and BMW 3 Series sedans. It comes with one engine, a 2.4-liter inline-4, and a choice of transmissions, a six-speed manual and a five-speed SportShift sequential automatic. Although horsepower is off slightly, torque is increased by enough to make up any difference in sheer acceleration. Just as important, fuel economy is unchanged with the manual and improved with the automatic. The TSX stays with a front-wheel-drive configuration, whereas true sporty sedans are rear-wheel drive. That said, the TSX is one of the better-handling front-wheel-drive sedans and in its class, hard to beat as an everyday driver that can still be fun on a mountain road.
Styling stays true to Acura themes for 2009, but cleans up here and there to give the car a more aggressive, more buff look and to emphasize its more planted stance. The wider part, where it adds a couple inches between the wheels side to side, translates directly into a sportier driving feel.
Everything inside that matters is powered, including the adjustments on both front seats. Dual-zone climate control and heated seats and outside mirrors are standard. Safety hasn't been overlooked either, with everything from a full array of airbags to electronic stability control to tire pressure monitors included at no extra cost.
Model Lineup
The 2009 Acura TSX is a four-door, five-passenger sedan with a 2.4-liter, 201-hp four-cylinder engine and a no-cost choice of either a six-speed manual or a five-speed sequential SportShift automatic.
The Acura TSX ($28,960) comes standard with leather upholstery, dual-zone automatic climate control, heated seats, eight-way adjustable driver's seat with memory, four-way passenger seat, power seats, windows and locks, heated outside mirrors, steering wheel controls for cruise and audio, seven-speaker AM/FM/XM/6CD stereo; USB and auxiliary audio input jacks in the center console, power tilt-and-slide moonroof with shade; Bluetooth connectivity; garage door remote; two power outlets; xenon HID headlights; fog lights; speed-sensitive wipers.
The TSX with the Technology Package ($32,060) replaces the standard audio system with a 10-speaker, surround-sound, 415-watt, AM/FM/XM tuner with multi-format, six-disc CD/DVD audio changer. The navigation system adds a rearview camera, AcuraLink Real-Time traffic (in 76 major metropolitan markets) with dynamic re-routing, AcuraLink weather and AcuraLink satellite communication system.
Acura-approved, interior and exterior accessories are available from dealers. For inside, the list includes Dark Metallic and Titian Silver interior trim kits, trunk tray, trunk hooks, cargo organizer, and cargo net. Among those for the outside are 18-inch, 10-spoke, chrome-look or ebony-finish alloy wheels to replace the stock 17-inch aluminum alloys; backup sensor; wheel locks; sport bumper kit; rear bumper applique; deck lid spoiler or wing spoiler; moonroof visor; car cover; and nose mask.
Safety features include a full complement of airbags to protect occupants front and rear in frontal and side impact crashes. Rear outboard seats provide anchors (LATCH) for child safety seats. Antilock brakes let the driver steer the car during emergency stops, brake assist boosts initial brake pressure in panic stops and electronic brake-force distribution apportions brake application between front and rear to optimize stopping distance. Electronic stability assist, coupled with traction control, adjusts brake and throttle to keep the car going where it's supposed to go through evasive or avoidance maneuvers or when road conditions deteriorate. And tire pressure monitors tell the driver when a tire gets low on air.
04-29-2008, 12:42 PM
#5
Make a hole, coming thru!
Originally Posted by prballard
I am having trouble with the link.
http://www.nctd.com/review-intro.?Ve...2009_Acura_TSX
Resolving www.nctd.com... 207.212.174.31
Connecting to www.nctd.com|207.212.174.31|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response...
HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found
Content-Length: 1635
Content-Type: text/html
Server: Microsoft-IIS/6.0
X-Powered-By: ASP.NET
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:39:46 GMT
Connection: keep-alive
13:39:48 ERROR 404: Not Found.
Resolving www.nctd.com... 207.212.174.31
Connecting to www.nctd.com|207.212.174.31|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response...
HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found
Content-Length: 1635
Content-Type: text/html
Server: Microsoft-IIS/6.0
X-Powered-By: ASP.NET
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:39:46 GMT
Connection: keep-alive
13:39:48 ERROR 404: Not Found.
04-29-2008, 12:49 PM
#6
> 100K Mile Club Member
Originally Posted by prballard
That is only part of it, right?
A couple of inconsistencies - it says 6 disc changer is standard on the base model. Think I have read where it is only single disc. They also say (in more than one place) that the navigation system is standard. Don't know how much stock I put in their opinion if they cannot get these facts straight.
04-29-2008, 12:51 PM
#7
> 100K Mile Club Member
Trending Topics
04-29-2008, 12:54 PM
#8
Safety Car
Oh Opps - the Other 3 Pages
Originally Posted by prballard
That is only part of it, right?
While it's not quite the case that if you've seen one Acura, you've seen them all, there's still a consistency to the marque's styling that ties all its models together. The '09 TSX is no exception to that rule. Although it stretches the mold a bit, as it should, there's still no mistaking it for anything but one of Honda's luxury line.
The front end nicely blends elements from Acura's other two sedans, the sporty TL and the more serious RL, and from the MDX sport utility. The headlight housings, for instance, with their squinty lenses curling around the front fenders to reach deep into the arcs of the front wheelwells, look like a direct lift from the TL. The elongated, pentagonal chrome bar topping the similarly outlined grille pulls from both the MDX grille and the single bar slicing across the grille on the current TSX. The gaping lower air intake is a new design cue and shaves visual mass from what might otherwise be an overpowering front bumper while adding function by pumping needed cooling air into the engine compartment and reducing front end lift. Hood sculpting defines the TSX's centerline and front fenders.
The side view departs a bit more from the family look, but keeps just enough of the cues to stay true to its design DNA. This is especially evident in the side lenses of the headlight and taillight housings and the silhouette of the trailing lip of the trunk lid, all of which closely mirror the '08 TSX. In much sharper relief, though, are the sculpted character lines in the door panels. These add visual bulk and combine with edgy wheel arches remindful, again, of the MDX to make a stronger statement about the car's sporty aspirations. Door handles embedded in the upper crease give the view a cleaner look.
The rear aspect, sad to say, suggests of recent Toyota Camrys more than of the previous TSX in its overly busy styling. A deeply cut horizontal line slices straight across the rear vertical of the trunk lid, itself looking almost concave against the gently convex vertical of the '08. Taillights bridge the seam between trunk and fenders as before but bracket a license plate recess that's inverted from the '08 TSX, visually pushing the trailing lip higher and seeming to add sheet metal across the lower reaches of the trunk lid. The rear bumper cups the trunk opening with unflattering sedan like bulk, which makes the hot rod-spec dual exhaust tips look a little lame.
2009 Acura TSX
Interior Features
Liking the new Acura TSX interior is easy. It's comfortable without being plush, sporty without being sparse. Communication between driver and car is, for the most part, open and easy and unabridged.
The front seats are supportive, with enough side bolstering for reasonably rambunctious motoring on twisty roads. The bottom cushion could be deeper, but this is a common shortcoming in today's cars, save for a few, like the BMW 3 Series and new 1 Series with their extendable thigh supports. The front seat passenger still gets shortchanged with no height adjustment, which leaves even taller people feeling as if they're sitting in a hole. The three inches tacked onto the TSX's width went mostly to more padding for side impact protection, but front-seat hip room is up by a solid inch.
The rear seat is more like a bench than twin buckets, and space for the lower extremities is snug, measuring by the tape a mere one-tenth of an inch roomier than the '08. This despite the addition of more than two inches to the '09's overall length and almost an inch and a half to its wheelbase. Rear head restraints adjust for height, which is a plus for its occupants, although that even when at their lowest position they obstruct the visibility out the back window from the inside rear view mirror is a minus. All four doors have dual inside pulls, one horizontal and one angled up, for easy closing by passengers of any stature.
Gauges tell their tales with easy-to-scan graphics and floating needles. The steering wheel sports push buttons and toggles controlling more than a dozen functions, not counting the horn, making it look like it would be just as comfortable in a jet fighter cockpit as in a car. This may be just fine for fighter pilot Walter Mittys who fantasize about mixing it up with the other side's Top Guns, but for the rest of us, who just want to drive the car, it's a bit much. The center stack, however, with either the base sound and navigation system or the optional Technology Package, is one of the more intuitively arranged that we've seen, with large, finger-friendly buttons and a reasonably easy-to-learn multi-function joystick-like knob for the multi-layered information center-cum-map screen. The high-end audio setup does force the relocation of the CD changer down into the bowels of the center stack, where it's not as easily accessed as with the base system, which parks it at the top of the stack, but that's a minor complaint, and one that won't even show up on the technophiles' radar.
Storage is more than adequate. Every door has a molded-in space for a water bottle, the front doors room for the proverbial map, although given a navigation system is standard, think guidebook or CDs. The glove box has a partitioned nook for the owner's manual and associated booklets, leaving the rest for smallish flat items. The front center console hosts a bi-level storage bin and two cup holders. The fold-down center armrest has two more. There's a bin in the front footwells on each side of what once was called the transmission hump.
Trunk space is down from the '08, by between more than one-half a square foot to a couple tenths of a square foot, primarily because the navigation system becomes standard for '09 and the trunk houses some of its hardware. The usable space, however, is awkwardly shaped by the need to accommodate the rear suspension components, which is just as well, as the opening itself isn't particularly commodious.
Driving Impressions
2009 Acura TSX
Driving the new TSX doesn't deliver as much fun as an honest-to-goodness sporty sedan could/should for one simple reason: front-wheel drive. Not that it suffers too much torque steer or any of the other dynamics peculiar to front-wheel-drive cars, but that any car burdened with a front/rear weight bias of 60/40 simply cannot deliver the responsiveness and agility of a rear-wheel-drive car, like the two aforementioned BMWs, or an all-wheel-drive car, like the Audi A4 Quattro or the new Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X.
Nevertheless, the TSX is an enjoyable, moderately sporty car. Suspension balance is good, with spring rates and shock absorber tuning well matched at all four corners. The car takes corners at speed with noticeably more confidence and less body lean than the previous-generation model, thanks in part to '09's two-and-one-half inch wider track. Only when the corners start arriving in rapid succession and require quick steering adjustments first one way then the other do the car's limitations become apparent. Adding to the disappointment is the steering's numb feeling. There's no lack of precision or response to steering inputs, just very little tactile feedback from that all-important contact patch between tire and pavement.
Horsepower is down slightly from '08, but torque is up slightly, so any difference between the '08's and the '09's response to the pressure of the driver's right foot on the gas pedal is measurable only by a stopwatch. As in, sprightly, but definitely still not neck-snapping. Interestingly, the '09's fuel economy improves by two miles per gallon, to 21/30 city/highway, over the '08's with the SportShift five-speed automatic; it's unchanged with the manual gearbox, which, strangely, is rated by the U.S. EPA at one mpg less in the city and two mpg less on the highway.
The SportShift automatic's adaptive programming leaves a bit to be desired, however. Although it initially holds a lower gear longer when the car's on a grade or when it's being pushed hard through a series of corners, it often gives up too soon. Time after time, during our test drive on the two-lane roads in the mountains east of San Diego, just as we readied to ease back into the gas during the transition from one corner to the next, it shifted up a gear, dumping the engine out of the sweet part of its power curve. It was similarly impatient on grades, not waiting long enough before shifting up a gear and then shifting back down a moment or two later when it realized its error. Never was there any indication of brake fade on those roads, and ride quality over anything but the worst pavement was better than average. There was little wind noise, and the longer wheelbase and wider track minimized the dreaded rocking-horse effect over freeway expansion joints.
Gear spacing in the six-speed manual easily kept the engine in the best part of its power curve, although we still don't see the need for a transmission this mechanically complex for everyday driving; save for brief periods of testing the car's limits, we mostly ignored second, fourth and fifth gear. Clutch action was smoothly managed, and the curved shape of gas pedal brings its lower portion close enough to the arc of the brake pedal to permit relatively comfortable heel-and-toe downshifts.
Summary
2009 Acura TSX
The 2009 Acura TSX is kind of like the little engine that thought it could, but found out it couldn't. As decent a car as it is, and it is a very decent car, it's not the full-fledged sporty sedan it could be, and that Acura seems to want it to be. With all-wheel drive and just a little more power, it could give BMW and Audi a real run for their money.
NewCarTestDrive.com correspondent Tom Lankard filed this report from San Diego, California.
04-29-2008, 12:54 PM
#9
> 100K Mile Club Member
i'm tired after reading that review
04-29-2008, 03:23 PM
#12
Make a hole, coming thru!
Originally Posted by TSX69
Summary - 2009 Acura TSX
The 2009 Acura TSX is kind of like the little engine that thought it could, but found out it couldn't. As decent a car as it is, and it is a very decent car, it's not the full-fledged sporty sedan it could be, and that Acura seems to want it to be. With all-wheel drive and just a little more power, it could give BMW and Audi a real run for their money.
The 2009 Acura TSX is kind of like the little engine that thought it could, but found out it couldn't. As decent a car as it is, and it is a very decent car, it's not the full-fledged sporty sedan it could be, and that Acura seems to want it to be. With all-wheel drive and just a little more power, it could give BMW and Audi a real run for their money.
04-29-2008, 03:54 PM
#14
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Originally Posted by Mokos23
wonder if the 09 TSX will make Car and Drivers 10 best again. 
Here is the last of the C&D first drive:
Balance of Powers
We have always been fond of the TSX’s balance of power, comfort, and fun, so we were thrilled (and relieved) that, for once, such a balance has been retained in spite of Honda’s thorough reworking of pretty much everything around that honey of an engine. Sure, the 2.4 could provide more oomph—we’d been hoping the new TSX would get the 240-hp turbo 2.3-liter from the RDX—but too much oomph in front-wheel drive applications, as seen in the 258-hp TL, for example, almost always brings with it a cocktail of torque steer, wheelspin, and electronic stability nannies. Not so with the TSX. Just floor it, and have a blast while enjoying the equally talented brakes and chassis.
Besides, with the 2.4-liter, Honda is better placed than ever to capture luxury- or sport-sedan intenders who want all the goodies in a low-emissions sprite with favorable fuel economy. And by all measures, the TSX’s fuel-economy ratings of 21 mpg city and 30 mpg highway for the automatic and 20/28 for the manual are quite favorable.
Bringing its looks up to its dance, then, without pricing itself too high (base price is expected at $29,000, rising into the $35,000 neighborhood with the Technology package), Acura has kept the best of the TSX while doing the rest of it. Thus, we expect it to dance its way into a lot of new gigs
We have always been fond of the TSX’s balance of power, comfort, and fun, so we were thrilled (and relieved) that, for once, such a balance has been retained in spite of Honda’s thorough reworking of pretty much everything around that honey of an engine. Sure, the 2.4 could provide more oomph—we’d been hoping the new TSX would get the 240-hp turbo 2.3-liter from the RDX—but too much oomph in front-wheel drive applications, as seen in the 258-hp TL, for example, almost always brings with it a cocktail of torque steer, wheelspin, and electronic stability nannies. Not so with the TSX. Just floor it, and have a blast while enjoying the equally talented brakes and chassis.
Besides, with the 2.4-liter, Honda is better placed than ever to capture luxury- or sport-sedan intenders who want all the goodies in a low-emissions sprite with favorable fuel economy. And by all measures, the TSX’s fuel-economy ratings of 21 mpg city and 30 mpg highway for the automatic and 20/28 for the manual are quite favorable.
Bringing its looks up to its dance, then, without pricing itself too high (base price is expected at $29,000, rising into the $35,000 neighborhood with the Technology package), Acura has kept the best of the TSX while doing the rest of it. Thus, we expect it to dance its way into a lot of new gigs
04-29-2008, 06:38 PM
#15
I've said it before, and I'll say it again....there is more to a car than it's 0-60 times. Having driven most cars in this segment I personally think the TSX is one of the most fun to drive. Maybe I just am so used to driving FWD vehicles that I know how to extract the most out of them (having owned 6 FWD vehicles, 2 AWD and 2 RWD vehicles), but I don't get how, say, the S40 T5 AWD, Saab 9-3 2.0T, Quattro A4 2.0T, or even the RWD IS250 are any more fun to drive than the FWD TSX. I doubt they handle better either. I love how within the last decade everyone seems to be so caught up with massive horsepower and RWD as if most people really use all that power or drift on their way to work. 
It'll be curious to see what happens when gas hits $5+/gallon. Will it be 1978 all over again?
It'll be curious to see what happens when gas hits $5+/gallon. Will it be 1978 all over again?
04-30-2008, 07:15 AM
#16
Senior Moderator
I don't think anyone has asked for massive HP. 
Just more. Would slapping the old Accord's 3.0L with 250HP/220lb-ft in there be such a bad thing? Make in an optional engine so those satisfied with the 4 have nothing to complain about.
Just more. Would slapping the old Accord's 3.0L with 250HP/220lb-ft in there be such a bad thing? Make in an optional engine so those satisfied with the 4 have nothing to complain about.
04-30-2008, 08:08 AM
#17
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Originally Posted by dom
I don't think anyone has asked for massive HP. Just more. Would slapping the old Accord's 3.0L with 250HP/220lb-ft in there be such a bad thing? Make in an optional engine so those satisfied with the 4 have nothing to complain about.
Just more. Would slapping the old Accord's 3.0L with 250HP/220lb-ft in there be such a bad thing? Make in an optional engine so those satisfied with the 4 have nothing to complain about.Saying that I am very happy with the performance of the 09 6MT. It is the same or better than my 04 in the way I drive. Please no debate on weight, hp, torque, 0-60. I just talking about my needs, not someone elses.
04-30-2008, 08:29 AM
#18
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by prballard
I wouldn't have minded sh-awd option with that engine either.
Saying that I am very happy with the performance of the 09 6MT. It is the same or better than my 04 in the way I drive. Please no debate on weight, hp, torque, 0-60. I just talking about my needs, not someone elses.
Saying that I am very happy with the performance of the 09 6MT. It is the same or better than my 04 in the way I drive. Please no debate on weight, hp, torque, 0-60. I just talking about my needs, not someone elses.
I'm now less convinced that SH-AWD is needed in this car. If the handling is as good as the first gen's thats all you need and more in a daily driver.
Your needs are whats important, and the 09 obviously fits the bill and thats great. But what about me?
My money is just as good as yours yet they won't see it unless this car gets more power. Thats all I'm saying. An engine option will IMO make this a better seller.
04-30-2008, 08:35 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by dom
I'm now less convinced that SH-AWD is needed in this car. If the handling is as good as the first gen's thats all you need and more in a daily driver.
Your needs are whats important, and the 09 obviously fits the bill and thats great. But what about me? My money is just as good as yours yet they won't see it unless this car gets more power. Thats all I'm saying. An engine option will IMO make this a better seller.
Your needs are whats important, and the 09 obviously fits the bill and thats great. But what about me?
My money is just as good as yours yet they won't see it unless this car gets more power. Thats all I'm saying. An engine option will IMO make this a better seller.RWD is not something I am looking for either.
04-30-2008, 08:44 AM
#21
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by prballard
I personally do not want the extra HP and Torque without AWD. I didn't care for the TL for the torque steer. And before someone comments that the TL doesn't have a torque steer problem, please looks at my C&D quote a few posts back in this thread. It is not just my opinion.
RWD is not something I am looking for either.
RWD is not something I am looking for either.
I experience torque steer in my 04 at times. Its a issue for all FWD cars. I've never driven a TL-S so I can't comment but I get the feeling from reviews and comments that torque steer is certainly not a big issue.
Point being, the TL and TL-S handled just fine (In one review better than an IS350 and G35) on a FWD platform with much more power than the TSX and it sold just fine. I seriously doubt a we'd have much to complain about in a 250HP TSX.
But like you said, we all have different needs. If I want a V6 Acura and I'm forced to step up to a TL to get one than I'd hope it wouldn't be much bigger or heavier than a TSX. As doubtful as that is.
04-30-2008, 10:34 AM
#22
Make a hole, coming thru!
Having driven my sweetie's 2000 Jetta VR6 (174hp V6) for a couple of days, I can start to appreciate others' expectation of more brute horsepower. I raced from <5 MPH to 80 in a few short seconds last night, and the engine wasn't nearly out of room yet. It's in catch-me-if-you-can red, too, which adds to its fun appeal. No Milano red in the '09 TSX is a rather serious lapse in judgement, IMHO. Unless ... they're holding that color back for a TSX-S or "sport" package with a different engine. It could happen, I guess. With sales dropping, Acura needs to do something bold, y'know?
04-30-2008, 01:09 PM
#23
Originally Posted by dom
Thats all I'm saying. An engine option will IMO make this a better seller.
I'm not saying this is the case, but nobody thinks that they study these things but I'm sure they do. At what point does adding another engine make sense? Does a 10% sales increase justify another production line? 20%? 30%? In end, they have to make more profit just to overcome the added cost.
04-30-2008, 01:14 PM
#24
Make a hole, coming thru!
Sales have been in a srump, for the TSX and Acura in general, if those recent Adweek articles are to be believed. I think if Acura starts selling the '09 TSX at anywhere near the target delivery numbers, I'd be startled (but not surprised).
04-30-2008, 01:23 PM
#25
Originally Posted by davidspalding
Sales have been in a srump, for the TSX and Acura in general, if those recent Adweek articles are to be believed. I think if Acura starts selling the '09 TSX at anywhere near the target delivery numbers, I'd be startled (but not surprised).
For example, we've effectively been out of '08 TSXs for 2 1/2months, it's no wonder that TSX sales for Feb/Mar/Apr were down? Can't sell what you don't have. From what I've seen from the recent sales numbers, the 5 year old TL continues to match (and sometimes outsell) the all new G sedan. Thats got to worry Nissan with an all new TL just around the corner.
04-30-2008, 01:24 PM
#26
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Colin
Well Acura replaces both the TL and TSX this year, and this is the reason for the slow sales at Acura. The MDX and RDX aren't enough to hold up the brand.
For example, we've effectively been out of '08 TSXs for 2 1/2months, it's no wonder that TSX sales for Feb/Mar/Apr were down? Can't sell what you don't have. From what I've seen from the recent sales numbers, the 5 year old TL continues to match (and sometimes outsell) the all new G sedan. Thats got to worry Nissan with an all new TL just around the corner.
For example, we've effectively been out of '08 TSXs for 2 1/2months, it's no wonder that TSX sales for Feb/Mar/Apr were down? Can't sell what you don't have. From what I've seen from the recent sales numbers, the 5 year old TL continues to match (and sometimes outsell) the all new G sedan. Thats got to worry Nissan with an all new TL just around the corner.
04-30-2008, 01:30 PM
#27
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Colin
Ahhh but what if the plans to build 40,000 annually reflect the production capacity? If the can sell all they can make with the 4 cylinder alone, why add the 6?
I'm not saying this is the case, but nobody thinks that they study these things but I'm sure they do. At what point does adding another engine make sense? Does a 10% sales increase justify another production line? 20%? 30%? In end, they have to make more profit just to overcome the added cost.
I'm not saying this is the case, but nobody thinks that they study these things but I'm sure they do. At what point does adding another engine make sense? Does a 10% sales increase justify another production line? 20%? 30%? In end, they have to make more profit just to overcome the added cost.
A good point that often gets forgotten. But if they could make a case for a low volume 2.3T and RDX, I'm sure they can make a case for slapping a V6 in an already great seller.
04-30-2008, 01:32 PM
#28
Originally Posted by LuvMyTSX
The crappy economy doesn't help, either. Car sales in general are down. People are not spending their money right now.
As my favorite sales trainer Zig Zigler says, "the media has successfully predicted 17 of the last 3 recessions"
04-30-2008, 01:37 PM
#29
Originally Posted by dom
A good point that often gets forgotten. But if they could make a case for a low volume 2.3T and RDX, I'm sure they can make a case for slapping a V6 in an already great seller.
But look at where it's built. On the CRV line they are already installing n/a versions of the K Series into that chassis. Not that hard to put in the K23. They do not install the V6 on the line that the TSX is built on. This would require at best, a shutdown of the line to retool for V6 production (then switching back), or a second line. Not to mention that the J30 is made in Anna Michigan and would have to be shipped halfway around the world for installation.
It's just not as easy as "oh stupid Honda, they should do this......"
04-30-2008, 01:47 PM
#30
> 100K Mile Club Member
Originally Posted by Colin
Well to be fair the RDX wasn't supposed to be a 'low volume' car. But look at where it's built. On the CRV line they are already installing n/a versions of the K Series into that chassis. Not that hard to put in the K23.
They do not install the V6 on the line that the TSX is built on. This would require at best, a shutdown of the line to retool for V6 production (then switching back), or a second line. Not to mention that the J30 is made in Anna Michigan and would have to be shipped halfway around the world for installation.
It's just not as easy as "oh stupid Honda, they should do this......"
But look at where it's built. On the CRV line they are already installing n/a versions of the K Series into that chassis. Not that hard to put in the K23. They do not install the V6 on the line that the TSX is built on. This would require at best, a shutdown of the line to retool for V6 production (then switching back), or a second line. Not to mention that the J30 is made in Anna Michigan and would have to be shipped halfway around the world for installation.
It's just not as easy as "oh stupid Honda, they should do this......"
04-30-2008, 01:47 PM
#31
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Colin
Well to be fair the RDX wasn't supposed to be a 'low volume' car. But look at where it's built. On the CRV line they are already installing n/a versions of the K Series into that chassis. Not that hard to put in the K23.
They do not install the V6 on the line that the TSX is built on. This would require at best, a shutdown of the line to retool for V6 production (then switching back), or a second line. Not to mention that the J30 is made in Anna Michigan and would have to be shipped halfway around the world for installation.
But look at where it's built. On the CRV line they are already installing n/a versions of the K Series into that chassis. Not that hard to put in the K23. They do not install the V6 on the line that the TSX is built on. This would require at best, a shutdown of the line to retool for V6 production (then switching back), or a second line. Not to mention that the J30 is made in Anna Michigan and would have to be shipped halfway around the world for installation.
It's just not as easy as "oh stupid Honda, they should do this......"
And why do things always seem so hard for Honda? Like I said earlier, the competition slaps in some cases several different engines into the same car but when it comes to Honda it seems near impossible.
"excuses, excuses" is the first thing that comes to mind for me. But putting all that aside and presuming Honda could actually do it. I'm of the opinion that a V6 would help. And if Jeff at TOV's sense is correct. Honda sees that as well.
04-30-2008, 02:01 PM
#32
Originally Posted by dom
Is the 3.0L even made anymore?
I don't know the answer to this question, hopefully you do. How did the TL line cope when the Type S came along?
Like I said earlier, the competition slaps in some cases several different engines into the same car but when it comes to Honda it seems near impossible. :
And if Jeff at TOV's sense is correct. Honda sees that as well.
I don't know the answer to this question, hopefully you do. How did the TL line cope when the Type S came along?
Like I said earlier, the competition slaps in some cases several different engines into the same car but when it comes to Honda it seems near impossible. :
And if Jeff at TOV's sense is correct. Honda sees that as well.
Infiniti has one engine and one engine only in the G, but the chassis can take an 8 in the M and Q (do they still make this?) Lexus fits two versions of a V-6 in the IS, but the ES has only one engine. Not too many manufacturers do 4s and 6s in the same car at this sales volume.
Edit: and having said all this, I do believe a 6 will find its way into the car, maybe they want to amortize some of the costs for the new car first?
04-30-2008, 02:13 PM
#34
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Colin
Yeah I don't think the J30 is still in production. The only 'low volume" mfg that I can think of that fits a 4 cylinder AND a V-6 to the same chassis is Audi. BMW fits two versions of a straight 6 so that hardly counts. In the more expensive cars, the fit straight 6's and V-8s, but I think to cost of doing so is reflected in the selling price. (M3)
Infiniti has one engine and one engine only in the G, but the chassis can take an 8 in the M and Q (do they still make this?) Lexus fits two versions of a V-6 in the IS, but the ES has only one engine. Not too many manufacturers do 4s and 6s in the same car at this sales volume.
Edit: and having said all this, I do believe a 6 will find its way into the car, maybe they want to amortize some of the costs for the new car first?
Infiniti has one engine and one engine only in the G, but the chassis can take an 8 in the M and Q (do they still make this?) Lexus fits two versions of a V-6 in the IS, but the ES has only one engine. Not too many manufacturers do 4s and 6s in the same car at this sales volume.
Edit: and having said all this, I do believe a 6 will find its way into the car, maybe they want to amortize some of the costs for the new car first?
While I'm not 100% certain I'm probably 95% certain that both BMW and MB put 4 bangers in the 3 and C class overseas. Not to mention the various diesel options. Besides the G, I don't think any of the cars you mentioned can be considered low volume considering how many they sell in Europe and other markets. So, ya adding engine options would be more cost effective in those cases. And the TSX can't really be considered low volume either considering the Accord. I'd imagine they sell quite a few in Japan and Europe.
04-30-2008, 02:24 PM
#35
Originally Posted by dom
And the TSX can't really be considered low volume either considering the Accord. I'd imagine they sell quite a few in Japan and Europe.
I think Euro Accord volume ls lower that Honda wants, but a V-6 overseas is not what the market demands. I guess there's no market for the V6 in europe/japan and this limits us here. (don't forget about the production issues to make it happen)
04-30-2008, 03:36 PM
#38
Make a hole, coming thru!
Originally Posted by dom
Actually I wanted to mention to Colin. According to that female dealer that was posting here last week, we can expect a supercharged TSX and coupe in a year. 
(Helps if you've seen THEY WERE EXPENDABLE with John Wayne and Robert Montgomery.)
04-30-2008, 04:00 PM
#39
I don't know if we'll see a Type-S TSX. Somehow, I think the V-6 TSX will be geared towards lux to replace the base TL. With the current powertrains, there is really little need for SW-AWD till you pass the current TL-S power levels, and who things the TSX will ever have more than the current 286?
I think that Acura wants to launch a coupe version of the TSX, we are the only lux maker without a coupe, and a convertible. To me, this 'hole' in the lineup needs filling before we need a TSX-S. Maybe the coupe will get the SH-AWD and the K23? A hood scoop wouldn't be totally out of place on a sport coupe and I think you'll need one to clear/feed the intercooler.
Remember, we still have no manual application of the SH-AWD, so maybe everything is held up till the next TL gets SH and MT?
I think that Acura wants to launch a coupe version of the TSX, we are the only lux maker without a coupe, and a convertible. To me, this 'hole' in the lineup needs filling before we need a TSX-S. Maybe the coupe will get the SH-AWD and the K23? A hood scoop wouldn't be totally out of place on a sport coupe and I think you'll need one to clear/feed the intercooler.
Remember, we still have no manual application of the SH-AWD, so maybe everything is held up till the next TL gets SH and MT?
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