The Dark Knight

iTrader: (1)

i was offered price of 29,225 + ttl for a 5spd automatic tsx (NON-NAVI) with no accessories etc

i already told him i want invoice... and he said (in a nice way) that he can't possibly give it to me for invoice.

he also said the destination charge is $795 (is this accurate??? seems a bit much)

invoice from edmunds = 26,621... + 795 = 27,416 = lowest price i can get + TTL

so 29,225 - 27,416 = 1,809

i want the decklid spoiler (after seeing it in person it looks amazing) added... thats the only accessory i want... thats $434

they also said they will give me $500 trade-in for my 1993 camry with 168K miles (is that a good deal?)

what price is realistic here? should i try to work in the middle of the 1,809 difference?

soundmike

Right now it's very hard to get invoice pricing. Your best bet is to try and offer them a more "realistic" number without actually going obnoxiously close to MSRP. Try for $500 over invoice, they'll surely counter, but at least you're working up from invoice, not down from sticker.

At least with $500 over invoice, you're showing that you at least want them to make money (i know, i know...). They already have a holdback, so this is technically icing on the cake for them. $1k+ over invoice is just completely milking it for what its worth IMHO.

That said, do understand that it's always hard to get invoice pricing on newly released models. Even employee pricing and such won't get you there.

The Dark Knight

iTrader: (1)

mike thank you for the great and kind response

Craig-D

The dest. charge of $795 is correct. MSRP of the base is $28,960. So that plus the dest. charge is $29,775. They are basically offering you $550 off of MSRP. That's a little better than the $400 I got off. The car came out at the end of April. It's now July. You are not going to get the car at invoice. It's too new and too hot of a seller. The car is lasting an average of 20 days on dealer lots - way below the 60 day industry norm. One other thing: that $400 they quoted you for the spoiler doesn't include installation. Count on another $200 for that.

My advice: if you insist on paying only invoice for a car, the 2009 TSX is not for you. I suggest going for a 2008 Nissan Maxima. They are giving them away with the release of the 2009 model imminent.

soundmike

The Dark Knight, you're welcome, anytime

Craig-D, funny that you mention the Maxima. I'm a long-time owner and and "oldie" over at Maxima.org. I was curiously anticipating the 2009, but after test driving it a couple of times it just didn't "speak" to me like my 2002 did. The 2008 is okay, but it has strayed a bit from what a Maxima is supposed to be. I'm due for a replacement, and guess what? The 2009 Max is out, but the TSX is on the shortlist

kyle-wdp

I paid 1000 over invoice for mine plus destination. My final sale price was in the mid 28's. I was quoted $460 installed for the decklid lip spoiler.

The Dark Knight

iTrader: (1)

i just got an internet price from another dealer for $28,336

kyle... did you get mid 28s OTD? or mid 28 + TTL?

The Dark Knight

iTrader: (1)

also, is dealer service/quality a good reason to pay more for the car, when another dealer is giving me a cheaper deal on the car?

ralllyeacura is making it their sales pitch... they say they are the #2 dealer in the usa and their service is impeccable...

http://www.rallyeacura.com/ou/roslyn-acura/

09TSX

The Dark Knight...sorry for chiming in but I wanted to give a few words of wisdom as well I agree that saving some money and getting a great deal is important but keep one thing in mind, customer service will good much further than saving a few hundred dollars. If you can combine both, fantastic but as you are doing right now, make sure that you just don't look at the bottom price. The relationship I have with my Acura dealership is just simply out of this world and I am so grateful that they are so good. I can feel confident that IF something goes wrong with my TSX, I know they will go out of their way to minimize my stress level and ensure that my problems will be taken care of....That is very important.

So as you continue to shop around, always keep that in the back of your mind....

Just my 2 cents...sorry to have barged in the conversation....

Craig-D

Why not have the best of both worlds? You don't have to have the car serviced at the same dealership you bought it from. Either will be happy to have any business you give them. Buy the car from the dealer with the best price and have it serviced where you feel you'll get the best service.

09TSX

Craig-D...thats a good solution, providing that the service dealership will accept to give you the same level of service as they would to their original customers. They can't refuse to service your car but they don't have to be as accomodating to you if they feel you didn't wanna buy from them....In other words, if you 2 customers show up and the dealership can only squeeze one in, I am pretty sure they'd look after their own customers first...although some are better and may not use this practise...but a good point to consider...

The Dark Knight

iTrader: (1)

this is EXACTLY what i told the guy at rallye acura

u know what he said?

'you are free to do that, but keep in mind we give priority to OUR customers. so if you need an oil change, i wouldn't be surprised if we only had room to service your car 6 months from the time you bring it in.'

in other words he was a dick lol...

but he was very nice during the test drive / negotiation / whole process.

The Dark Knight

iTrader: (1)

also i emailed 6 more dealers last night

i got another quote this morning:

ok dealer #1 offered 29,225 with $500 trade-in value on my camry

just got offer from dealer #2 via internet

28,336 and i haven't asked them about my camry yet

gotta keep workin lower... although ~1.5k off MSRP is makin me happy.

The Dark Knight

iTrader: (1)

09tsx is spot on this is basically what the salesman told me... i would be put on a waiting list behind priority customers

kball

If you're a member of COSTCO, you may want to use them for the new vehicle program. I went for a test drive about a week and a half ago and was close to pulling the trigger on a deal of invoice plus, $500 + destination + ttl. Thought that was a pretty fair deal. Love Costco!

Didn't counter that as I'm waiting to check out the 09 Mazda 6 and (gasp!) hyundai genesis. But I really love everthing about the tsx except the looks which I still like but don't love.

09TSX

The Dark Knight...the reason I know is I grew up in the car business, my dad ran a car dealership (not an Acura dealership...one of the Big 3....he is now retired which is why I now drive Acuras) and that is one way to put pressure to get the sales. I know its not really fair but at the same time, business is business. Good customer service is something that should not be taken for granted. If you wanna earn the respect of the dealership you have your car serviced, you should support them as well, if not, why should they bend out of their way to help you out, especially when they have their own loyal client they wanna look after. Sometime, part of paying a little bit more has to do with the fact that the dealership pays their employees a bit more to retain the BEST employees, and pass some of the cost as non availability to rebate the car too much...

Like I said, for me, service and respect from my dealership is more important than saving maybe $10-20/months. I mean, I could have tried to buy the car in the States and then drive it back to Canada, that would have saved me about 10k!!! I said to myself, is this worth the hassle and the potential warranty issues and lack of customer service so I said, these guys were Fantastic with my 1st Acura and they continue to be just outstanding!!

If anyone is from eastern Canada and are hesitant about an Acura...the dealership in NS is just a class above the rest!!!

Craig-D

Here's the thing: One, when you call to make an appointment for service, how do they know where you bought the car? Two, it's a fact that dealers make most of their money on service rather than car sales. So if they turn away your service business with such antics because you didn't buy the car from them, they're idiots and you don't want to do business with them anyway. Three, service and sales are two separate entities in which one arm doesn't know what the other is doing. Your salesperson does not speak on behalf of the service department.

If I find out that there is any truth to this: that Acura dealers give preferential treatment only to those who buy from them - then this will be my first and last Acura. I've always bought Ford previously, and always got excellent service from different dealerships than from where I bought the cars. I was always treated very well. My cars were always taken right away and were ready that same day or the next day for pickup. It better be the same at Acura.

soundmike

It could be a regional thing, but here in Houston i have never seen such issues. We bought all our vehicles from different dealerships and have had them serviced in others (primarily because when we move, we choose the closest dealership/service center to us). We've been treated just as well in one, as we were in another. This counts for the Honda, Acura, Nissan and Infiniti dealerships that we've gone to.

The most notable thing one can do when "service-hopping" is to develop a good relationship with your service advisor. That goes much further than the relationship one makes with the sales person (in most cases, not necessarily a blanket statement).

All this said, there is one exception. If you bought a vehicle from John Eagle Acura (for example), they do provide free oil changes for as long as you own your car. Obviously, this won't work if you bought your car elsewhere and brought it in to Eagle, nor would the freebie be covered if you did it the other way around.

larryziegler

The threat of buying here so you can get priority service is pure bull. There are reasons why a person might have purchased at another dealership, other than price. The Hondas we own, have all been purchased at various dealers, but serviced at the same dealer nearby. I purchased elsewhere on 3 occasions because the nearby dealer was very low on stock and an out of town dealer had exactly what we wanted. I have established relationships with the service writers and they treat me just as if I had purchased the car there. The service dept is its on profit center....there job is to maximize revenue not police their customers on why they purchased elsewhere. An appointment made trumps a walk-in, otherwise its always first come first serve. Now....OTH, if there is some issue, such as the car being out of warranty and some highly unusual instance occurs to the car, it can make a difference whether you purchased the car from that dealer if he is going to go to bat for you. I have always told the nearby dealer I wouldn't go out of town for a few hundred dollar difference, but when that difference is $1000 or more, you bet I will.

The Dark Knight

iTrader: (1)

Here's an email exchange with the 3rd (new) dealer:

Me: i can give you 500 over invoice

Dealer: we can't do that, but i can do 29,000 for you (MSRP 29,675)

Me: another dealer offered me the internet price of $28,336, anything else you can do? i also have a 1993 camry 4dr sedan LE w/ 168,000 miles for trade in. perhaps we can work something out? i also would like a decklid spoiler added

Dealer: What im going to do for your efforts, is we will take your trade that worth less then my spoiler. i can sell you the TSX w/o TECH for 28,300 you will have the spoiler and wheel locks. This offer is only good on a vehicle I have in stock.
Please let me know what color you are intrested in.


















(this is my first car buying experience... how am i doing so far guys? what do you think of the quote? what should i respond with? can i squeeze some more outta the dealer? )

the spoiler is like 500 + installation fee... so he's basically giving me a similar trade in value of the camry like the first dealer did right?) in other words im still getting shafted on my camry.... but this deal is still better than what the first dealer offered me. (right? lol)

soundmike

Word of advise, never mention trade-in's or financing until you've worked on the price. They may give you a good number on the new vehicle, but will make up for the loss either by lowering your trade-in value, or offering you 5% financing instead of a 4% that you're actually eligible for. To a certain degree, don't even mention options yet!

That said, i still think they're asking too much. Invoice for a dealership doesn't mean that's how much they got the vehicle for. So even at invoice they're getting something, but i like to offer above that amount as i do understand the cost of doing business (something that most holdbacks only barely cover).

By the way, if internet/fax price quotes won't work in your situation, try the old-fashioned method of going in, letting them know you're dead serious in purchasing a car at a price you want to pay, no less. They'll always say they can't do it, but at the end of the day, they want that sale. As long as your offer is reasonable, no sales person will deny you that sale no matter how "hot" the car is and how "it's flying off the lots".

The Dark Knight

iTrader: (1)

larry, mike, craig, 09tsx... you guys are all right.... screw rallye acura and their service threat BS

The Dark Knight

iTrader: (1)

damn i keep making mistakes! lol

since i've already mentioned the trade in and accessory(ies)... how should i counter his email/offer?

i haven't talked financing yet (or did i?) so i think im good on that front.

how much more do u think i should try to squeeze out of them?

i read the other thread w/ what everyone else is paying... and 28,300 with decklid spoiler + wheel locks minus my camry seems OK... but i want better..

soundmike

What best way to learn than from mistakes, right?

You're doing fine, don't worry. I would stay firm and set on your price +/- a couple of hundred. They will give in eventually.

If you can, try to arrange financing from your bank or some other financial institution. This will give you an idea of what rate you're eligible for. But do not bring it up until you get to that point in the vehicle purchase process. The good thing about having this handy is you can offer it straight up, you know you're getting the best rate and in some cases the dealerships finance department will actually try to beat it.

If it helps any, the best price i've been able to get from a local dealership for an '09/6spd/Tech is $550 over invoice. I also have my financing already in place (never mentioned it).

By the way, i normally would suggest trying to sell your Camry on your own. However, there is a small advantage to a trade-in and that is tax-savings. Basically, the taxable amount of your purchase is lowered by the amount of your trade-in.

The Dark Knight

iTrader: (1)

good points mike, especially about the tax

i emailed back dealer #3. i said:

spoiler costs 500. wheel locks cost 65. looks like im better off selling my car privately.
















i hope my tactic works! hopefully they will give me more for my camry.



i think im about ~500 away from ~500 over invoice (basically the amount in which they are shafting me for my camry. kbb says i should get $1,200 on my dealer trade in. i should be able to get $1,800 if i sell privately)

right now im going to make a down payment of 15,000

i hope i get a good financing rate..

adam_m

Dark Knight,

I think you're doing fine. I've found it's one thing to research all the negotiating tactics, it's another to stick to your plans in the face of salespersons who do this stuff everyday and are very good at it.

In my case, I negotiated a pretty decent deal on an '09 Base TSX (28,375), but didn't do that well on the trade in. In retrospect, I've decided that in addition to waiting until after the sale price is negotiated before talking trade in, I should have either:

a) Acted like I was willing to call off entire deal if don't get good trade in value, or
b) Acted as if I was going to sell car on my own if don't get good trade in.

In retrospect, I should have used tactic b). I had a matching quote from Carmax as backup, so the most I would have lost if the dealer called my bluff is $540 in sales tax. It probably would have been worth the gamble. btw, dealer is now posting the car for 6K more than they gave me for it...after claiming that they would wholesale it (which i didn't believe). In reality, the car is worth about halfway between.

The one thing I'm convinced I did right was waiting until the end of the month. I pulled the trigger around 5 pm on June 30th. Obviously, at this point waiting until end of July would require patience on your part. But, the reason for doing that is because all the dealers are trying to reach their end of month quotas.

kyle-wdp

mid 28s plus taxes

kyle-wdp

arrange your own financing.
sell the Camry on your own.....the tax credit on a $500 trade is negligible when you can probably get 1500-2000 for it on Craigslist.

As far as dropping the trade in after the final price is negotiated, these guys sell cars everyday. That is nothing they haven't seen. It would seem like you are trying to waste your time and theirs. Decide what you will pay for the car and buy it at that price. period. Buying a car is not worth taking days out of your life.

The Dark Knight

iTrader: (1)

the financing will be a little tricky

the bank will only give me a check for 15,000. im using that as my down payment

the rest i prefer to finance through the dealer.

perhaps if rallye acura has such impeccable service, i can tell them i will buy it at the higher price if they give me a great financing rate for the remaining ~15,000?

nycgay23

Though I haven't bought my Acura yet, I was completely turned off by them when I went in to talk to a salesperson. My bad experience was with one salesperson only, so I can't judge them as a whole, but I have to say that I was really disappointed with the way in which I was treated during my visit.

You'd think a dealership in Roslyn would be a little better all around. Again, that's my experience. If someone can recommend a good person to work with there, I'm willing to give it a second shot!

The Dark Knight

iTrader: (1)

bro you went to roslyn too? lets go together next time

im goin again this wednesday

who did you deal with? my salesman was/is Chris.

nycgay23

Not sure if I'll be going back again, though I'm not sure. I wanted to check out Island Acura in Wantagh to see if things went better. If that doesn't work, I'll surely be going back to Rallye, it's the only one around that is not un-recommended!

I'd totally go this Wednesday, if for nothing else than to test drive a 6MT (though most likely getting an AT to deal with traffic pains in my current MT!) for kicks, or in hopes of winning me over!

I'll give you a shout if I do decide to go.

The Dark Knight

iTrader: (1)

i just read good things about island acura too, although it was in a 2 year old thread.

unless they give me 1) better trade in deal and 2) better price altogether, i will probably not buy from rallye.

this wednesday i'll basically go to just drive the tsx a bit more.

what dealers have you heard bad things about? i want to be sure to avoid them too.

i have an appt with Chris at 7:45pm on wednesday for a test drive, so hit me up if you're down.

HonestAbe059

I went to Acura in Wappingers Falls to get mine..I paid 31,850 with tech package, remote start, and allseason mats. The salesman was great. Not pushy at all and was willing to just give the info I needed and give me the time I needed. Ask for Armando and tell him Sergio sent you! lol Best experience Ive had with a salesman...

jchow426

Got $1,000 off MRSP, but that was it.

Craig-D

Both of you guys should buy your cars in Jersey. Most NYC and long Island dealers are d**ks. I got mine at this board's sponsor, DCH Montclair Acura in Verona, NJ. Same owner as the dealer HonestAbe059 went to in Wappingers, which is also a DCH franchise.

The Dark Knight

iTrader: (1)

is this correct??? i just got an email from Springfield Acura with a quote of 27,699!!!

i haven't even mentioned my trade-in to them yet.

Craig-D

Like I said: Jersey baby. That sounds kind of low though. I bet that doesn't include the destination charge.

The Dark Knight

iTrader: (1)

i just got a second email from them

they said price INCLUDES destination/handling

it does expire in 72h though

is this something i should accept on the spot? or should i try to squeeze more? ie. trade in my camry for some accessories

Craig-D

Invoice is $26,621. Destination is $715 I believe for a total invoice price of $27,336. So if they are offering you the car for $27,699, or only $363 over invoice, run, don't walk, over to Springfield Acura with checkbook in hand.